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An EV electricity rate wouldn’t help us as our power use is fairly constant, so cheaper overnight for charging will work out more expensive as the day rate is more.
If use is constantly above a certain level then an EV tariff could work out for you.
I have a google sheet which I used for our calcs. Not difficult to setup if you know how much you use, what tariff you are on, how many miles you drive, what the economy of the car is and what the EV tariff rates are.
Edit - I should probably tart it up so that it could be useful for others and share it on here.
I suspect the arrival of the Volvo EX30 has changed the plan a bit as I understand the 25K car got delayed, sidelined, and the plan changed to maximum model 3, and drop the price of the Model 3 as the manufacture got cheaper.
Re. the mini-e, drive some other cars to compare it to. If you don't need the range, try the Mazda
I really like the look of the Honda E, but the range is about 100 miles, but that would do us, even for MrsF to commute in it, charging once a week, and using her car for distances. Used, 2 year old Honda E’s with low miles are £20k at the moment, almost half their RRP, another 12 months and they will be very cheap.
Can you get a bike in a Honda E though or planing on using a rack? (for various reasons I wont use one).
Too low range for me though. I use the car infrequently but do occasional trips and need to get 200 miles without adding an hour to the journey recharging.
Sadly Honda like many are focusing on SUVs. I'd hoped for a full EV Civic but their only other full EV they're launching is an SUV. The Civic meanwhile now is a self charging hybrid, so it's a petrol car.
Last thing I want is an SUV. Hate them. I'd rather have an estate but that's difficult these days.
Getting to the point where I may give up the car entirely. Public transport is still a faff to bike locations though.
Don’t crucify me but…
We are two days into semi electric ownership and loving it. We replaced our battered aging Kuga diesel with a Sportage HEV 225 (1.6 petrol turbo plus battery) It manages the power distribution itself dependant on load requested of it, but in traffic and if you are light on the throttle it’s full EV mode all the way. I’m sold on the “drive” - the instant torque (spaceship sound mode say the kids) to move a big vehicle about is amazing.
Other than that is such a technology advanced car compared to my just 6yo 320d it’s ridiculous. 250 miles mixed driven and showing 46mpg average.
Crucify you for hybrid instead of full EV? Hell no, gatekeeping constrains adoption and my view is you get what you want and what you feel will work for you. If it doesn't; you've tried it and maybe decide something else next time.
I have a PHEV as I bought it 5 yrs back as there was no equivelant EV at least anywhere near the money it cost me. It was the same price as the one without a battery so a no-brainer. The range is either pathetic if you're driving 50 miles a day, or amazing if you do what we do and drive 10-15 miles 2 or 3 times a day.
Being hybrid has allowed us to get rid of the 2nd car (our schedules and being quite remote mean that public transport/pedal power don't work) and now have an electric moped instead.
Happy days and glad you're enjoying it
Thanks - similar use case, we do 10-20 miles a day on school runs and to leisure centres for the kids sports, all in stop start traffic, so this’ll mostly be in EV mode. Then at the weekends, 100 mile round trips to triathlons, swim galas and bike races with the bikes on the back, so it’s duality works for us.
yes enjoying it. It’s a lovely car.
250 miles mixed driven and showing 46mpg average.
That doesn't look that good? Are you charging it up at home or letting it charge itself?
It's the HEV, not PHEV.
Work colleague has a new CX60 PHEV and is finding is less 'frugal' than his old Skoda Karoq. He might need to adjust some settings to improve it, but I'm hearing more stories of PHEV's not really being any more efficient than their old ICE cars in mixed driving. My PHEV Octavia still doesn't have a build date, now coming up on a year on order.
Quick report from my Alps Roadtrip.
The charging network on French autoroutes is just fantastic. I’ve never had to wait to plug in at a Duper Rapid charger.
Ive used IONITY with my wife’s Volvo RFID card to get 0.31€\kwh
My new favourite is Engie stations which gives great discounts through Electroverse if you are an octopus customer - €0.32/kwh on a 300KW rapid. Plus they generally have 8-10 chargers per station. They show up as “Last Mile Solutions” on the. Electroverse app.
We stopped off at a Chateau near Reims last night to break the journey up to Bruges. Plugged in to a 2 pin wall socket Granny charger. Paid him €15 flat fee for 18 hours of charging (about 40kWh added) not massively cheap but very convenient.
@mert. Not sure who that was directed at but yes, I'm aware it's the HEV.
@stcolin. Quite possibly, I think "mixed driving" is doing some heavy lifting there. If your trips are mostly within the range of the battery I'd expect the equivelant mpg to be about twice that of an ICE. If he's taking long trips then he'll be carrying a heavy ol' empty battery around with him. (YMMV based on cost of electric, car type etc). Clearly a full EV will always win efficiency wise (dear god I hope not to revisit this in winter && apologise for jinxing things!)
Re the above; bearing in mind also it’s not run in…. A 5 mile round trip to Sainsbury’s this morning was 71mpg, so that is about double that of a 1.6l petrol pulling an SUV I guess? Our diesel Kuga showed 31mpg for the same trip
The 250 miles at 44 mpg is actually the quoted mpg, but I did have a play with sports mode, and the battery was pretty depleted after us all playing with the car / settings Friday evening in the garage and needed time to charge.
I was pondering earlier, when noticing the silly amount of torque coming from the 335bhp through the wide rear tyres of my week old i4, what it’ll be like in the winter here in the high parts of south Lanarkshire.
As with many, it’s on a salary sacrifice lease, so no options CrossClimates or similar. It’s the standard tyres, as standard..
Thankfully our other car is FWD petrol with new CrossClimates all round…
I’m hearing more stories of PHEV’s not really being any more efficient than their old ICE cars in mixed driving.
Largely from people with big mouths but small desire to understand their car, I think. People seem to buy them and just drive them around on default everything and not plug them in; thereby draining the battery. At this point the engine runs to both power the car and charge the battery, which is inefficient.
You need to think about what you're doing and where you are going, and where the best place to use your electricity might be. For example, plug in overnight, use EV power to get out of your street then let petrol power you along the motorway until you have to go through a city then you can put it in EV mode. Or just battery draining EV assist in town followed by ICE on the open road etc. I think a lot of people aren't willing to think about their driving to that level of detail.
I was pondering earlier, when noticing the silly amount of torque coming from the 335bhp through the wide rear tyres of my week old i4, what it’ll be like in the winter here in the high parts of south Lanarkshire.
It doesn't go through the tyres unless you press the pedal on the right all the way down. So I'd suggest not pressing it all the way down 🙂 I'm assuming BMW have also applied some sort of traction control or ESP since it was invented a long time ago.
I was pondering earlier, when noticing the silly amount of torque coming from the 335bhp through the wide rear tyres of my week old i4, what it’ll be like in the winter here in the high parts of south Lanarkshire.
as Molgrips said above, traction control is your friend here. Electric motors are massively more controllable than ICE, so the car simply won’t allow the wheel to spin (unless on purpose).
I’ve noticed in my previous ETron and now in the i4 - if you floor it in the wet then there isn’t any wheel spin as such, but there is a slight vague feeling and the car doesn’t accelerate quite as quickly.
I did try flooring the ETron from a standstill in a snow covered carpark, and all it’s 400BHP did was to drive off gently with no drama.
So, I think you’ll be fine from a power delivery point of view. How that translates to not getting stuck though I don’t know. Only 2WD and there is only so much grip you’re going to get from 255 tyres on snow - but a pretty good weight distribution . Probably won’t be as good a a FWD with a heavy lump of an engine right over the wheels.
^^^ interesting, and encouraging ! My last bmw was a 520d estate and it was awful in the snow.
Not sure who that was directed at but yes, I’m aware it’s the HEV.
Molgrips comment about Krytons fuel consumption. 46mpg from a petrol HEV the size of a sportage isn't at all bad. I'd expect it to improve significantly once Kryton works out how to drive it, and stops playing with the settings.
I know my 48v hybrid increased about 6-7mpg as i worked out how to modify my driving behaviours to match the engine set up.
Electric motors are massively more controllable than ICE, so the car simply won’t allow the wheel to spin (unless on purpose).
Yes, when we started with EV, trying to get the "usual" strategies for traction control to work (cut torque, apply brakes etc) was a bloody nightmare. Torque reduction on an electric motor can be done in something like 10ms, 30 times faster than an ICE. Inertia of an EV powertrain is also about a tenth of an ICE powertrain. (Depends on AWD/FWD/RWD etc). So now it's mostly done on motor control. Can also detect slip though the motor far quicker than you can through the ABS.
My last bmw was a 520d estate and it was awful in the snow.
Well, they are both RWD BMWs…
Let us all know how you get on, fingers crossed!
^^ indeed ! I have had 2 Audi Quattro’s in between, both with CrossClimates so I have set my expectations accordingly 🤪
<p>ioniq 5 has a snow drive mode where I guess the tolerance for slip and softening of the throttle to maintain control is increased. I would think bmw had the same no?</p>
I must the the refusal of Sal Sac companies to fit All Season tyres to EVs is crazy. The Eco tyres are rubbish in a bit of rain never mind winter….
Hmmmm. Some mixed experiences from US based owners in the link below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BMWI4/comments/10y6ikp/lf_honest_winter_review_i4_e40/
I don’t think that there a snow mode as such, but there is “Dynamic Traction Control”, which is a notch back on full traction control, allows a bit of slip from what I read in the manual it’s recommended for driving in slush or snow covered roads etc. sounds similar to the Ioniq one.
I suspect that with full TC on, once a bit of slip is detected it reduces power so you could get to the point where the car just refuses to move. Knocking TC back to dynamic or maybe even off would allow some spin to get moving?
I’m looking forward to winter now !
Even the humble Zoé 50 has traction control, ESP or whatever it is that keeps it gripping remarkably well in snow. My only disappointment last Winter was that he handbrake is now electrical (thus useless) as oposed to mechanical on the older models. The ABS is the most effective I've had on any car in the snow.
Edit: On Michelin Cross Climates, not even full Winters.
Just started looking at some EVs, so far the EV6 and Ionic 5.
One thing I wanted to understand is the protocol for queuing for a charger if occupied? With petrol/diesel there is a clear in/out and you just get in line and wait your turn. From what I’ve seen, the chargers in the services are usually at the front of the car park with nowhere to wait. How does this work in practice especially if there are 3 or 4 people wanting to charge?
There isn’t one. Luckily most EV drivers tend to be considerate, but this is becoming more of an issue. Properly planned sites with queuing spaces would be a good start.
The Ionity at Gretna is great for this with randoms waiting in different places. You just have to remember your place in the queue or more likely for me, carry on to option b.
dantsw13
Full Member
There isn’t one. Luckily most EV drivers tend to be considerate, but this is becoming more of an issue. Properly planned sites with queuing spaces would be a good start.
Sounds like that could get stressful, especially if there is nowhere to park nearby. Would have thought they could implement something on the charger whereby you input your reg and it puts you in a queue and displays the reg up next?
Queueing is generally a bit of a nightmare - works well when everyone is co-operating and being friendly. I suspect that will change as EVs become more popular. There really does need to be some form of queueing system - either a physical queue or a "take a number" type approach. I think the issue right now is that the charger operators likely have to lease space from the overall site operators. If they want space for queuing then they will need to pay for that too, so don't and hence the mess.
It'll change - eventually. I predict an app or some form of numberplate recognition etc.
Out of interest is it typical to have to queue or in most cases is there usually a free charger?
That depends on the location and time of day !
At peak times it's not uncommon to have to queue for 5-10 mins.
Worst case can be quite long (I've had two 30 min+ queues over the last year / 20k miles)
A bit like finding your "favourite" petrol station though you get to learn which ones are quieter and when. Sometimes I'll use a more expensive charger when it's busy if I know it's only a small top up to get home - not worth the hassle of queing to save £1-2.
I've never had a queue in my limited use and very rarely seen a queue in the somewhat longer time I started checking them out when I got interested in EVs. I expect it varies a lot with location and time of your driving. My plan would be to have an alternative and move on to that if it looked difficult at the first option (also if the chargers are not working, which may happen at a quiet time!).
But obviously you want to be charging overnight at home the vast majority of the time, if that's possible.
Queue's become a problem when there is a disparity in pricing. At Gretna, I get 32p per Kwh on the Ionity using the Audi card. I suspect it's the same on the other manufacturers schemes. Whereas the new fast chargers in the main car park are 70 or 80p per Kwh. That can be £25-30 difference for me on a reasonable charge.
@oldtennisshoes
That's exactly my trade-off, albeit at the Cambridge Ionity.
It's 32p for me now (will be 26p once I move to using the BMW card), but can be busy.
There is a BP pulse place in Kettering which has 10 300kW chargers (which can dual-charge hence can service 20 cars at 150kW) and rarely more than a few cars there, so very low chance of a queue. If it's a 10kW charge then it's a no brainer to skip the queue. If it's a 70kW charge then I'm more willing to wait!
Oh - final comment - using the various apps you can look at the status of chargers before heading there. They won't tell you if there is a queue, but you can see if there are free chargers if so how many.
Out of interest is it typical to have to queue or in most cases is there usually a free charger?
Best option is not to run to empty so you can always have a plan B/C/etc
One annoyance I’ve noted with EVs is the trend to fit massive 20”+ alloys. Not only do they give a worse ride, more expensive tyres, less pothole resistance more road noise but crucially for an EV they also hurt the range.
I’d have thought they’d be trying to make them as efficient as possible?
If you want the smaller 19” wheels on the Ionic 5 (which are still massive) you have to get the base spec with cloth seats and less options. The 20” wheels on the better spec cars reduce the range from 315 to 295. I saw an article where someone fitted 18” and got another 50 miles range vs the 20s.
I don’t even think the bigger wheels look better and it seems crazy some cars fit expensive air suspension to mitigate the lack of air in the rubber band tyres. Am I the only one that thinks this is daft?
Strangely the BMW ix50 and 60 models get a better range when fitted with 22's over 21's,
something to do with the inserts between the spokes making a flatter wheel.
I don’t even think the bigger wheels look better and it seems crazy some cars fit expensive air suspension to mitigate the lack of air in the rubber band tyres. Am I the only one that thinks this is daft?
There's a lot more to having the air option than just compensating for the lack of air in the tyres.
Big wheels that fit the arches look a lot nicer IMO
I am on the UK BMW i4 FB group, those on 20 inch wheels seem to be around 30- 50 miles less out of a full charge, so 270 ish compared to around 300 miles on the 18's. i have the standard base model which has the
Meant to be the same on the leaf...
16" gets better range and ride than the 17s...
However....I wish I'd got 18s when I replaced the stock wheels... MOAR PIMP BAYBAH....
DrP
Am I the only one that thinks this is daft?
No, it's widely acknowledged, but bear in mind that traditionally people buying new expensive cars often seem to be the kind of people to be impressed by looks over value and function. Not necessarily the case with the EV market 🙂
You might be able to down spec wheels when ordering the higher spec car. I think this can be done with some manufacturers as I'd enquired in the past.
No, it’s widely acknowledged, but bear in mind that traditionally people buying new expensive cars often seem to be the kind of people to be impressed by looks over value and function. Not necessarily the case with the EV market 🙂
You might be able to down spec wheels when ordering the higher spec car. I think this can be done with some manufacturers as I’d enquired in the past.
I’ll be buying secondhand, EVs are taking a bit of a bath at the moment and there are some great deals - maybe I could swap with someone who wants a worse ride and less range🤣
I'm watching used prices very carefully. Check out Leafs they are plummeting. A few pages back there's a post from me saying I'd seen a load of cheap Leaves at £18k; now Autotrader is awash with £10k ones.
We're they £10k before covid? Is this just a resetting to past prices on all of the automotive industry or just EV?
I'd love to move to full EV but environmentally feel it's better to sweat my current 5yr old car for another 5yrs. By then my son may have learnt how to respect our possessions a little better!
EV used prices are tumbling - I've been looking myself. Various cars, only or 3 years old, low mileage, half list price. Leaf, Honda e, corsa, Zoe etc etc. Far cheaper than ICE
We’re they £10k before covid?
These are two or three year old cars I'm looking at. It seems to be the 2nd gen cars that have lower range which are cheap. That said, a 62kWh Kona has a real world 250 mile range, they are still quite cheap at around £16k for the cheapest.
I’d love to move to full EV but environmentally feel it’s better to sweat my current 5yr old car for another 5yrs.
Well, in our case if we had another EV that would make the diesel last a lot longer. I just drove it to the supermarket 1 mile away! Gah!
(Yeah, you can flame me but we needed a ton of food immediately because we just got back from holiday. Normally it's delivery or I walk there to get smaller amounts.)
Haha, I don't think anyone can blame you for needing to go shopping.
That's the sort of thing I'd be getting in I reckon (a leaf). Budget for size/range it feels good value. If we were doing pre-covid mileage i'd rip their arms off but I just don't go anywhere anymore. Now we're down to one car (a PHEV) we kind of get 90% of the benefit of an EV already so makes it a hard sell to jump completely. Particuarly as it's a beast so my wife isn't going to be happy about going down to a hatchback!
I can see you've got less excuses so just get the cheque book out and jump in! 🙂