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£13k outright, that’s not bad at all for a 2 year old car these days!
It's made me think about getting a full electric for sure, anyone got any experience of a CorsaE? Would be a second car so range not a problem & could easily get charger fitted at home.
I'd edit the comment that battery supply is limited, to battery supply is limited for some manufacturers.... seemingly not in China.
I once heard a discussion on batterys that on the original Leaf the battery was costing about $1000 per kWh, and now the $100 threshold had been crossed (for some poor quality batteries) , implying there wasn't a big supply problem driving up price globally.
This has a slightly different number https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1272-january-9-2023-electric-vehicle-battery-pack-costs-2022-are-nearly
anyone got any experience of a CorsaE?
I've got a Corsa e. It's the other half's daily driver so I only get to drive it occasionally.
Done 2 big day trips in it, 320 miles and 370 miles and I like it. More power than my previous cars so it is fast for me in sport mode.
Charges pretty quickly as well. It was pulling 92kwh from a Tesla charger for a brief period on a pretty empty battery so it went from 8% to 80% in just under 30 minutes.
I bought the elite nav spec so it has the matrix led headlights, heated seats, steering wheel and larger touchscreen.
Boot space seems ok. Rear legroom won't be a problem for me as I'll never sit back there.
Looks nice, blends in with the other ice Corsa's that are out there.
@mert look forward to it!
Also re induction charging in parking spaces. This really isn’t the issue to focus on. Getting sufficient available renewable power, and then infrastructure such that this power is available where needed to change is the issue. Whether the car driver has to plug in a cable, it’s an automated physical contact or induction is just a distraction.
Except its not, if you make these things easier to use then more people get the benefit. Again, you've got to think about the people these systems AREN'T designed for. People with disabilities or reduced mobility that can't necessarily manipulate a charge cable. I wouldn't be surprised if some able bodied people don't have the strength (depending how much twisting force is needed, I'm not sure here). Then there's the question of no exposed parts to vandalise.
I'm not saying it has to happen before anything else you listed, we have more than enough resources to focus on more than one thing at a time. It's just something else that makes it that bit more equitable.
With the nice side effect of forcing people to park properly as well!
Bring it on!
Australian mining companies are installing solar farms because they have realised its easier to generate electricity on site than transporting fossil fuels (or hydrogen) for genneys across miles and miles of bugger all.
Yeah but that's one type of site that's doubtless going to have Infrastructure around it anyway, I meant the more remote places.
Saw an Ioniq 6 yesterday. Still getting over how ugly the back was. Like one of those weird Mercedes from years ago that tapers to the rear.
Except its not, if you make these things easier to use then more people get the benefit. Again, you’ve got to think about the people these systems AREN’T designed for. People with disabilities or reduced mobility that can’t necessarily manipulate a charge cable.
Fast charging cables are heavy but slow ones are not.
I work for a big OEM on their EV programme.
Here are my hot takes without giving any industry secrets away
Far eastern makers will decimate GM, Ford, VW at the entry level. In the same way Kodak, IBM etc etc..
High end may survive if it adapts quickly enough to full BEV, e.g. Porsche Taycan gets 400mile range 800v charging ASAP, rich people love brands
Battery swap will not be a thing - beta max
FUD, Oil Lobby etc will add 5 years to the transition
Yeah there are loads of interesting looking and cheap Chinese EVs being shown on my FB feed. I wonder if there is a downside?
I wonder if there is a downside?
The future of the western car manufacturing and associated engineering, tech and manufacturing industries like what’s happened to the consumer electronics etc industries. Increased levels of Chinese dominance and the wests decline?
I am a ray of sunshine today, aren’t I?
Or the west places massive tariffs on imports and jack pricing up on locally made cars and cream extra margin.
Plenty of the leading edge tech innovation will remain in the west, in the same way China was not able to refine the ICE. All is not lost at all, we just need to play to our strengths. All the best engineers want to, and will be paid to work for high end brands and Tesla ;-). The driving experience will still be engineered in etc, its not all about battery tech and in car tech..
It seems like specifically battery innovation is happening in China at least as fast as in the west, if not more, judging by the stories I see.
You can pick up mg mg5s for £18k now with ~18k miles. I just wish it had a better boot for an 'estate'
I had an MG5 as a loaner - really liked it , and that was coming from an A6.
Kia eNiro Manchester to the wilds of Northumberland. 2 adults 2 teenagers and a dog (+ roof box on top with a weeks worth of crap). 190 miles....arrived with 80 left, couple of days exploring and we've only given it couple of hours on a 7kw charger and 10min on the Alnwick Ionity. currently sitting on about 100 miles range. pretty drama free.
dantsw13
Full MemberI had an MG5 as a loaner – really liked it , and that was coming from an A6.
Me too, but we had a few niggles with ours though. You'd start it charging, then come back and find it had only added a percent or two then disconnected. Various chargers at different locations.
The app also wasn't working and there's no obvious way from a distance to see if it's still charging, only by trying to view the dash through the windows. Don't open the door to have a look though! Because that resets it 🤦♂️
I'm sure you'd get used it its foibles, especially for the price, but it was quite irritating because it's a perfectly decent budget option otherwise.
I’d edit the comment that battery supply is limited, to battery supply is limited for some manufacturers…. seemingly not in China.
It takes the best part of a decade to get planning for battery plants in Europe. Takes months in China. Unless you play political games with local government and make all sorts of promises (hollow or otherwise).
It seems like specifically battery innovation is happening in China at least as fast as in the west, if not more, judging by the stories I see.
The *innovation* is happening in loads of places, the commercialisation and volume production is mostly in China.
Their CEO was saying the other day that since battery supply is limited it makes more sense to reduce emissions across transport as a whole to put smaller batteries in more PHEVs than large ones in fewer BEVs. If battery supply is indeed limited then he has a point.
It's not just supply, it's cost/weight/efficiency as well, i mentioned this earlier in the thread, smaller batteries with more convenient/faster charging benefits everyone, even BEV owners. Because almost NOBODY needs a 300+ km range, or 300kW. They need better charging infrastructure.
Compared to physical contacts induction charging is generally a bit sh!t. Have you tried one on a phone? Slow and heats the phone up a treat.
Yes, the induction charging is really designed for short stops and a small top up. Taxi ranks and bus stops are already being trialed, some bus stops with charge gantries, some with floor level induction. Shopping centre carparks, restaurants, that's the sort of usage that benefits, as induction is about 10-15% less efficient than cable charging _at best_. It's less efficient in the first place, but you also need better cooling on the vehicle side.
It you’re going to do parking space charging, why not have some physical metal to metal contacts. Just set a standard re where on the underside of the car the contacts are and have something lift up from the floor.
Because in a public car park, it'll probably get damaged, there are (currently) too many manufacturers, all with different standards. It's being looked at for home/garage/driveway charging though. Flat box on the floor with a pop up/manoeverable charging connector, or there are a handful of companies doing robot charging systems using the existing charge port connector. Eventually you'll have it in more places though.
The main thing is that wall mounted chargers are *cheap*. They're currently fitting out our carparks at work, cable to every space sort of thing. And including all the electrical infrastructure and racking needed to put an 11 or 22kW charger in every space (we're talking hundreds of them) is under €500. And that includes Swedish labour rates, which are amongst the highest in Europe.
Only downside is that i don't have a hybrid, so am having to park further and further away from the office, which is lovely in the summer, but bloody grim when it's -20 and we've got 30cm of snow.
there are a handful of companies doing robot charging systems using the existing charge port connector.
I didn't think even a heavy fast charging cable was any harder to manipulate than a petrol pump. But then, I'm able bodied.
Other than where it's used by the physically impaired, it's mostly for convenience/laziness TBH.
There's little other technical reason to do it.
It'll be massive in the US.
Yeah but that’s one type of site that’s doubtless going to have Infrastructure around it anyway, I meant the more remote places.
@squirrelking Well if you had bothered to check out any of the links I posted you would know that at least one of those Ausy mines is a new site in the middle of a desert. Probably more chance of infrastructure in Mozambique. How much more remote do you need? Antartica?
@upthedowns would it hurt to be civil?
I meant more that a chuffing huge mine that can justify it's own solar plant to run it is going to justify the infra unlike say a motel in the middle of the outback. And good luck driving there in the first place even if they do have a charger because it's likely no bugger will. Do you even know what outback driving involves?
I meant more that a chuffing huge mine that can justify it’s own solar plant to run it is going to justify the infra unlike say a motel in the middle of the outback.
How big's the mine though? I think the point of solar is that you don't need to be big to justify it, because it scales down well. Plenty of people here have their own supply and storage for a single house.
But anyway, a sidetrack. The above talk of roadtrips had me looking at Kona 62kWhs but they're around £17k still. I think I've settled on Ioniq EV Premium SE which seem to be the same price range as Premium.
unlike say a motel in the middle of the outback.
Even easier to run on solar. Especially if you have an old Nissan Leaf to hand.
But it seems you're one of these guys who is always right. Maybe take a look at yourself instead of telling me to be civil
Do you even know what outback driving involves?
Yes, i wrote some of the test specs for BEV and PHEV for driving in the outback. Based on road load data from, errrr, people who drive in the outback.
TBH, i wouldn't in a BEV.
But then, there's only something like 0.001% of the cars on the road, globally, that do that sort of driving. So not really a big deal. Just don't buy a BEV.
It's like people who are actually fridge delivery drivers complaining about cargo bikes not being suitable for delivering 26 fridges in a day.
We f***g know, don't f***g use one. Use the most suitable vehicle for the job.
We went from a 40kWh Leaf to a 60kWh Megane in January. The leaf was a great commuter car but any kind of longer trips became a bit of a chore, we'd basically get 100 miles on a full charge give or take. Just been on a couple of family trips away in the megane and it wasn't until the end of the second one that we realised that we just hadn't had to worry about charging at all. We hadn't even brought an extension to use the granny charger. Quite a liberating expereince for us!
stevious
Full MemberWe went from a 40kWh Leaf to a 60kWh Megane in January. The leaf was a great commuter car but any kind of longer trips became a bit of a chore, we’d basically get 100 miles on a full charge give or take. Just been on a couple of family trips away in the megane and it wasn’t until the end of the second one that we realised that we just hadn’t had to worry about charging at all. We hadn’t even brought an extension to use the granny charger. Quite a liberating expereince for us!
Sounds good, what range are you achieving in the Megane? How do you find the car in general?
On the recent real versus claimed range deabte Squirrelking correctly pointed out the conditions under which EVs are unlikely to meet the WLTP test figures. And I said it was quite easy to beat them in some types of driving, so I zeroed the trip. Madame then used the Zoé for shopping and trips out to the stables: lots of junctions, slow moving traffic, speed bumps, 168.1km, 33.3kmh, 11.3kWh/100km. A52kWh battery so a simple sum gives a range of about 460km under those conditons. Under even more favourable conditons, on holiday in rural France we got nearly 400km out of a Zoé 41kWh. But yeah, foot to the floor on the autoroute (130kmh) to the coast and when we pull into the car park after 120km it needs a charge to get us home.
Yep, speed is the enemy of range. That is why the fast charging of the 800v cars like Ioniq5/EV6/Taycan becomes so important. On long trips it is quicker to drive at 70-75 and stop for 10 mins to recharge regularly.
Personally I don’t want to do more than 2 hrs before I stop on long trips. On my alps trip I always found that by the time I had been to the loo & bought a coffee I was up to 90%. The French Aires are way ahead of our EV infrastructure though.
speed is the enemy of range. That is why the fast charging of the 800v cars like Ioniq5/EV6/Taycan becomes so important. On long trips it is quicker to drive at 70-75 and stop for 10 mins to recharge regularly.
Agree. aerodynamic is proportional to speed squared, and the most efficient speed for EVs is generally impractically slow - something like 20-30 MPH or so, which means the slower the better as far as range goes.
Batteries also charge fastest when they are closer to empty. I did two 10kw.hr charges in my i4 one from about 88% to 100% and one from 20% to 32% (ish). The one at high charge% took about 25-30 mins, the one at low charge% took exactly 4 minutes. So, best to bounce off empty than continually top up to 100 for long trips.
Bjorn Nyand does a 1000KM challenge - fastest car to complete the 1000KM wins - he starts from full and then does several small charges at low %ges rather than just one large charge for speed - works it all out in advance and everything.
So, best to bounce off empty than continually top up to 100 for long trips.
I don't have that much faith in the charge network, I've learned to charge when there are still a couple of alternative chargers within range if the one I hope to use won't play ball. At 90% I watch the charge rate, if the battery is at perfect temperature it's worth charging to 95% but if the cooling is running flat out it's best to give up at 90%.
I’ve learned to charge when there are still a couple of alternative chargers within range if the one I hope to use won’t play ball
100% agree with this !
I watch the charge rate
Also agree. Each car model also behaves a bit differently.
Note whilst I said that its best to bounce off empty I don't mean literally empty.. always need options and charge speed isn't always that important, given that a rest stop tends to be a certain duration anyway (even a pee stop is 10 mins, but throw a coffee or some food in and that's 30mins which is enough for most cars to go from 10 to 60%+)
Looks to me like the slowdown starts around 80%, the stopping strategy depends on how many stops and how long. Stirling PnR (for example) had plenty of fast chargers but with a 40 min limit and we only got to 85%. Which was enough to get home but only just and it was a bit stressful. Ideally we'd have stopped a bit later but it was a convenient time (and price).
They're all a bit different - some slow down at 80% (like the ETron), some peak at fast rates, but slow down from earlier on (like the i4).
Not all slowdown is equal though! My Ioniq 5 slows down at 80% - from 220 to 150!! My old mG 5 only ever got up to 75KW
The ionity at Aire Jura literally stopped charging at 80% though - must be a setting at a busy stop.
Not all slowdown is equal
Yep! Changing from an ETron to an i4 I thought that the rapid slowdown of the i4 would be an issue. But it's 200kW peak vs 150kW peak, and given that the i4 is more efficient the "miles added per minute charging" rate of the i4 is actually a LOT faster (I'm seeing 4.1-4.4 m/kw.hr in the i4 during the last couple of months vs the ETrons 2.7-2.9 in similar conditions - about 50% better effiency). Added to that, with the longer range of the i4 any on-the-road charging I do now tends to be a "little top up to get home", I'm rarely charging outside of the fast region. The swap has been a total game changer.
On the range thing, I’m on day 3 of my i4 and was playing with sport mode earlier. I managed to take 10 miles off the range in 3 miles of use ….. it made cool noises though.. 🤪😁
@iainc - don't take any notice of the i4's predicted range. In my experience it's totally useless. It's very pessimistic !
Sport mode shouldn't use more energy in itself - it just sharpens up the throttle and steering. It might however encourage YOU to drive the car in a way that does though haha.
How are you liking the i4 ?
Thanks, loving it so far, scary rapid throttle response and it gets to the legal limit in no time.
not quite worked out all the app stuff yet, and today after fitting and removing towbar bike rack it came back on after restarting still in trailer mode, which I had to put off manually, which was a bit odd, and there was a wee white exclamation mark triangle in bottom right of ev% part of the driver screen, but that went off when I stopped and restarted. Probably user error !
It's a rather clever car. Sometimes a bit too clever for its own good owners.
It is, however "just a nice car", rather than "an electric car" - in a good way. If they piped in engine noises rather than the Hanz Zimmer noises* you could get away with telling people it's an ICE.
*I've turned these off. My 10 yr old kids disagree though, so I've assigned the "whooshy noise" on/off switch to a shortcut to make it easy to keep them happy, but not annoy me the rest of the time.
Haha, yes, indeed ! I have also turned off the ‘iconic sounds’ option !
This may be of interest: UK Government announces new Regulations for the public EV charging network
"In introducing the Regulations, the Government’s aim is to encourage the switch to EVs by ensuring that public EV charging is as simple and hassle-free as possible by seeking to address the widely reported frustrations over accessibility and quality of public EV charge points (“CPs”). The new measures impose obligations on EV charge point operators (“CPOs”) to ensure a better public charging experience for EV drivers."
I was quite shocked recently, looking at the residuals of 2 year old EV's with low miles. Much cheaper than their cheaper ICE equivalents, so much so, I could be tempted in about 18 months when some 'spare' pension pots are accessible.
I do 3,000 miles pa max, and that's mainly to transport bikes to our caravan. I don't use it Mon-Fri, and we've an other car for distance, plus a city car my son/daughter use. A small capacity EV would suit.
I really like the look of the Honda E, but the range is about 100 miles, but that would do us, even for MrsF to commute in it, charging once a week, and using her car for distances. Used, 2 year old Honda E's with low miles are £20k at the moment, almost half their RRP, another 12 months and they will be very cheap.
An EV electricity rate wouldn't help us as our power use is fairly constant, so cheaper overnight for charging will work out more expensive as the day rate is more.
This may be of interest: UK Government announces new Regulations for the public EV charging network
“In introducing the Regulations, the Government’s aim is to encourage the switch to EVs by ensuring that public EV charging is as simple and hassle-free as possible by seeking to address the widely reported frustrations over accessibility and quality of public EV charge points (“CPs”). The new measures impose obligations on EV charge point operators (“CPOs”) to ensure a better public charging experience for EV drivers.”
Does this mean that Tesla will be forced to open up the entire supercharger network I wonder ?
Does this mean that Tesla will be forced to open up the entire supercharger network I wonder ?
Doubt it. Much in the same way that although it would be useful to anyone in the area to crash in your spare bedroom the government can't mandate that you put it on AirBnB.
@flaperon - I suspect you are right. Teslas view is probably that they are not "public" chargers.