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In fords defence. Isn’t your the only one of that model of that age left on the road this side of Africa ?
No, that would be my 2018 Focus. Not even Autodoc has the bit I need.
No problem, i will update. What do you want to know about? I think you are correct about the 100kw charging but i cant imagine me ever having too much issue with this. I charge at 7.4kw at home 95% of the time and the chargers at work are 50kw. The chargers i have checked out near to where my longer journeys are are 80kw. With a 70kw battery i dont think thats too much of an issue. Do you think it needs more?
Also remember there's a big difference between the theoretical max charge speed and the actual max and the average across the whole charge. 100kW wouldn't be too bad if it stayed near that for most of the charge. Looking at this curve it's a lot more consistent than some cars so it probably won't feel too slow.
Compare to a Skoda Enyaq with a higher peak:
The Skoda averages 64kW from 10-90% and the Merc 76kW. I quoted the 10-90% figure because the Merc is still charging fairly well at that point; if it were my car I'd be leaving it to 90 or more which would mean a greater effective range on long trips which is where it counts.
Charging today reminded me that the charge rate is temperature dependant. It's best around 20-25°C ambient and slows above or below that. Leave the car out below freezing then try to charge it before driving anywhere and it's really slow.
Took delivery of my new ID.7 tourer last night. Been out and about today, it’s a marvellous thing and it makes me want to immediately replace our other car. Does anyone with an ID vehicle have any kind of a guide on how to set up all the bells and whistles in the infotainment though - it’s a proper maze of settings!
Hobo-I eye the 20" rims with suspicion - how is the ride?
Did you try any of the other cars in the class to compare?
Charging today reminded me that the charge rate is temperature dependant. It’s best around 20-25°C ambient and slows above or below that. Leave the car out below freezing then try to charge it before driving anywhere and it’s really slow.
Except anything remotely smart or well designed will pre heat/cool the battery as the very first thing it does on a planned/programmed charge cycle. So unless the heating/cooling systems in the car hit their operating limits or you're a "random charging user", it shouldn't make much difference.
I know it's built into a lot of the navigation systems as well, so if the car gives you a charging location on a longer route, it'll start preparing the car before you get there.
Our MG4 is going back April next year. We're wondering what to replace it with. Maybe another one if they do a good deal (new one has rear wiper which my wife really wants, but she also would like heated seats which I don't think you can get). Anyway we happened to see (not drive) the e-Corsa and she really liked the look/size of it. I know someone on here had one- I can't face going back 100s of pages to find out who, so if they're reading this - what's been your experience good/bad?
I just bought my ICE Skoda at the end of its four year lease. I do like the look of the Kia EV-3. but we're going to run the Koraq for a few more years as I can't justify spending lots of money to replace it with an EV. I would like to tho as every time I drive the MG4 I prefer it pretty much anything I've owned in the last 15 years!
Anyway we happened to see (not drive) the e-Corsa and she really liked the look/size of it. I know someone on here had one- I can’t face going back 100s of pages to find out who, so if they’re reading this – what’s been your experience good/bad?
I think it’s @retrorick
I have an e208, which is exactely the same Stellantis car with different styling. I’m really enjoying it a year on from purchase (used 21 plate). Range is not amazing, but sufficient for my needs (maybe 130 miles winter, 160 summer). Reliability- on board charger and air con compressor are known weak points on early cars. My OBC was replaced at Peugeots expense without fuss a couple of months out of warranty. Phone app is crap - or at least the car responds very slowly to it, think the cars mobile connectivity is the culprit not the actual app.
Stupid thing won’t let you pre heat/cool the cabin if the battery is below 50%, which drives me mad. I often want to set off with a low battery to then charge for free at work.
Re. Heated seats - on the e208 at least they were only standard on the highest spec model. Specs in general are hard to get your head round as things that you’ll read about being standard in the reviews at time of release were later dropped or restricted to top spec models - apparently due to post-covid chip shortages.
Yep I've had access to a Corsa e for the last 16 months. The elite nav version with the swish matrix lights.
It is a nice little car but not too small. My other half drives it daily and doesn't have any issues with it. She likes the heated seat, steering wheel and pre heating/cooling the car prior to setting off for work or leaving work when it's cold or too warm.
I did 45 miles in the Corsa e a few days ago and coming from driving 1600 miles in the Ioniq it does feel a little dated. The Ioniq has better features and build quality. The Corsa however for shorter journeys is good. It can do the longer journeys and it does charge faster than the Ioniq so I wouldn't discount the Corsa for a longer journey. I did around 350 miles in a day twice in the Corsa with no issues.
The Corsa is quick off the mark. It seems to be a bit skippy when cornering and there is a bumpy surface. Maybe the 17" wheels don't help?
I need to take a look at the drainage around the boot area and find out why the half wheel well collects a little water. Other than that not had any issues with the car.
Would I buy another? Yes. But I hopefully won't have to replace it for several more years.
Except anything remotely smart or well designed will pre heat/cool the battery as the very first thing it does on a planned/programmed charge cycle. So unless the heating/cooling systems in the car hit their operating limits or you’re a “random charging user”, it shouldn’t make much difference
Not sure how that's supposed to work when it's parked in a freezing public car park and the charge point is not far away. Get in, drive down hill with a regen warning because it's so cold (the one time having the heater on makes absolutely no difference to range and economises the brake pads) and then plug in. Charge rate slowly increases as the battery is warmed up.
We've had our new EV a week now. We replaced the Octavia PHEV with a full electric Corsa (we no longer need the bigger vehicle.) Is a lovely little car. Has the feel of a little hot hatchback, great to nip about in.
But really wanted to point out that Arnold Clark are currently doing (imo) some pretty good deals on the Corsa at the moment. £289 in and £289 pm gets you a full electric, it's cheaper than the ice alternatives. So if you're in the market for a small ev, check them out. We got the Corsa ultimate down to £275 pm.
and transmission tunnels – it’s an outdated term for a lump in the floor that should not be there in a FWD car. It’s a lazy design
Agreed. Floors in cars should be flat.
We got the Corsa ultimate down to £275 pm.
Yes some great deals on the Corsa-e Ultimate, leaseloco £193/month for 3 years and 10k miles with 12 months up front.
Not sure how that’s supposed to work when it’s parked in a freezing public car park and the charge point is not far away. Get in, drive down hill with a regen warning because it’s so cold (the one time having the heater on makes absolutely no difference to range and economises the brake pads) and then plug in. Charge rate slowly increases as the battery is warmed up.
that’s a car issue, not an EV in general feature, and non existent in an i4..
My Model Y won't regen when it's cold. It also stops regen on super long alpine descents.
Picked up a 3 year old Audi E-Tron 50 Quattro this weekend, very impressed with it so far, only issue is we live in an old house so the National Grid has to uncouple us from the neighbours before we can have a charger fitted which is turning out to be a minor pain.
I’ve just got a Lexus RX450 Takuma at £296 a month (8k a year, two year deal). It was £3k upfront though, but it’s one hell more of a car than a Corsa. Unfortunately it got an unrepairable puncture after two weeks - £150 for an emergency tyre (shit non-branded thing) and £350 for the correct replacement but it’s an odd tyre size/spec and my local indie garage can’t get one until later next week.
I haven’t had a chance over the weekend what with rain and ferrying kids around. But.. the inside is cavernous. I’d be surprised if I couldn’t get a couple of bikes in on top of each other with wheels on.
What’s the ID.7 like for bike carrying?
Beat me to it! What about upright with front wheel off, (maybe back wheel too as I have axle stands that I use in my Octavia).
Thanks @retronick and @ richardkennerley - range isn't a big problem for us as we still have the ICE car for longer journeys. The MG4 gets about 200 miles, but we just tend to charge it from 15-80% whenever it needs it. Longest journey we've done is Brum and back which was 130ish.
We'll go take a look next weekend then. Bit early for us to get a great deal tho as the MG4 doesn't go back until next year.
and non existent in an i4..
Get it properly cold then get back to me. The battery physics are the same in every EV. You can't fast charge a cold battery, simple as.
Not sure how that’s supposed to work when it’s parked in a freezing public car park and the charge point is not far away.
That doesn't sound very planned/programmed to me...
as the very first thing it does on a planned/programmed charge cycle
If you'd set navi to the nearest charge point, a newer car would probably have started heating the battery immediately.
Charge rate slowly increases as the battery is warmed up.
Some cars are starting to use the initial energy from charging to heat (or cool) the battery with (almost) zero charging being done, as the total time and amount of energy needed to hit target charge level is lower if you can get the battery to temp faster.
My Model Y won’t regen when it’s cold. It also stops regen on super long alpine descents.
Stops regen or stops the one pedal drive?
I know some models stop both! (Or used to, anyway!)
It’s a lazy design.
It's also a simple, low cost and low weight way to improve multiple aspects of crash performance. Reduce NVH and improve ride and handling.
Some cars are starting to use the initial energy from charging to heat (or cool) the battery with (almost) zero charging being done,
Been done for years, any car with battery heating and cooling. The ones that haven't had it are exceptions such as the Leaf. The only reason that the charge is lower (but not "almost zero") is that the battery can't take more when its cold. Which was my original point and is correct whatever an i4 owner might claim for their "special" car.
With or without setting the navi the car warms/cools the battery as soon as you start it on very cold or hot days. You can see it on the watts display in Winter, and see and hear it in Summer with the fan going flat out - and see the growing puddle of condensate under the car.
For someone in the industry you post some strange stuff on this forum, Mert.
The regen doesn't disappear completely when the battery is cold (unless the battery is already full when you start that alpine decent). It's just limited to the max the battery can take at that temperature which you can see on the regen watts readout on the dash. When the battery is very cold the car will give a regen warning and it'll feel like there's almost no regen but some limited regen is there. As the battery warms up down the alpine decent the regen watts increase.
In practical terms the Zoe (a 12 year old design with a heat pump for heating/cooling) peaks at forty something watts of regen in Summer down the col d'Aubique and about a quater of that on a very cold day. I can't give the exact figure, only estimate from the power indicator as the exact watts display is replaced by a big red regen limited warning. By the bottom of the hill or after 20 minutes it's up to about a third and after another hour between half and two thirds.
Been done for years, any car with battery heating and cooling.
Active precondtioning to optimise temperature before connection/charging hasn't.
Actively diverting all/most charge power *specifically* to optimise the battery temperature for charging after connection also hasn't.
Limited charging speed and in cell heating due to battery physics/chemistry and heating/cooling because the temperature is wrong are not the same thing.
For someone in the industry you post some strange stuff on this forum, Mert.
You mean, what actually happens rather than what you think happens?
Actively diverting all/most charge power *specifically* to optimise the battery temperature for charging after connection also hasn’t.
"Diverting" says you're taking from one to give to the other. That's not the case because battery conditioning doesn't use much power so there's more than enough power for both. The battery heating is going to pull about 3kW (check out user experience on forums such as the Tesla forum). Even on a 7kW home charger that's not "all/most" and on a typical 50-250kW public charger insignificant.
Took delivery of my new ID.7 tourer last night.
@bassmandan would be great if you could post some updates once you've had it a while. From what I've seen so far I'm keen on an ID7 tourer to replace our aging Golf estate (once some ex demos come up for sale). What spec did you go for?
No i have only driven my colleagues car which is on 18" wheels. The 20's will of course make a difference.
I think the A6 eTron Avant looks much better than the ID7. What is it with VW and these strange wobble lines on the rear. The ID4 is the same. Ford showed how much better the ID4 could look with the Explorer.
@bassmandan - my dad has just got an ID7 last week and I spent osme time on Saturday helping him set it up. The full manual is available through the on-screen menu under Hints and Tips (or somethign like that). You can then search specifics or read at your pleasure.
I have to say I was really impressed with it as a car, it's big and solid, loads of room inside, good range and performance and probably closer to what VW should have released with their previous generation of ID vehicles.
I think the A6 eTron looks gash, Daffy. What's with that huge ICE false grill and false exhaust diffuser things. On the other hand the ID7 looks OK in a designed-ten-years-ago way apart from those awful ninja wheels - how much is an upgrade to steels with a few holes in? Both look like they're trying hard to be ICE cars compared with the Ioniq6 or Renault Scenic.
The Model Y regen doesn't post the numbers, you just get a green bar on the display. An icon comes up to tell me regen is limited/off and there is no one pedal braking. I often start at 100% (LFP battery) so have to drive a bit before I get the benefits. On the long descents we did over the summer I recall noticing lack of one pedal braking at the start and then part way down and just assumed the car had a good reason. It may have been due to hitting 100% again after starting full but I can't remember.
Having spent a lot of my driving life either having to nurse/tinker old cars/bikes to keep them running, or living in fear of warning lights, with an ear cocked for new noises, I quite like the 'appliance' like efficiency of the Model Y. It just works.
I'm told the rear diffuser (along with the split boot spoiler) has real benefits in reducing the traditional drag bucket associated with the aerodynamics of a Wagon. Without some CAD, I can't fact check that. But it's somewhat irrelevant as it didn't actually make it to the production car. The black bit at the bottom which should be a diffuser is supposed now to just reduce the visual bulk at the rear of the car.
The grille is an Audi thing I could live without, but it's actually smooth, not a grille, it just looks like one because, Audi.
But the lines look right, the proportions look good, it looks dynamic whilst standing still and it's available in nice colour combos. I don't like the dash. The screen is an odd shape and doesn't seem to flow correctly with any interior lines. *shrugs* Doesn't really matter, at£75k including options, it's not really on my list.
The Model Y regen doesn’t post the numbers, you just get a green bar on the display. An icon comes up to tell me regen is limited/off and there is no one pedal braking
That's pretty poor for a premium car to still be doing that. Especially as brake blending is so easy with the latest brake control systems. Consistency of behaviour is key for most customers.
On the long descents we did over the summer I recall noticing lack of one pedal braking at the start and then part way down and just assumed the car had a good reason. It may have been due to hitting 100% again after starting full but I can’t remember.
Could also have hit the operating limit of the battery, basically won't take any more input without impacting on it's ability to deliver output, even though it's not full! Not a problem when charging, but a significant issue with excessive regen. Have managed to trigger that in a lot of EVs.
Talking proportions that look good, of course there's a BMW i5 touring which looks almost exactly like a 5 series touring (if that's your bag). But they are proper expensive and couldn't quite bring myself to do that.
But as with almost all BMWs these days, it's looks are...challenging. It's also MASSIVE! Almost exactly the same footprint as a Range Rover but not quite as tall. 280mm shorter.
I've seen one of those BMW i5 in the saloon version, it looks a bit like a Dodge Charger.
My car has battery heating and cooling, and it shows you how much has been spent on that on the daily reports and also live. It does spend some energy cooling or I think warming (not sure) the battery whilst charging. I've seen this on long trips in middling weather. However, it does NOT warm the battery before you get to your pre-programmed charger. Ioniq 5/6s do, but mine does not.
Re regen, it will stop regen when fully charged but only for a mile or two unlike the Leaf which wouldn't do any until it got down to about 95% and didn't do full regen until 92% or something. Also, you can have it give you actual numbers for regeneration power; the highest I've seen is about 70kW which is irritating since it'll only do 47kW or so at a charger!
It’s also a simple, low cost and low weight way to improve multiple aspects of crash performance. Reduce NVH and improve ride and handling
It's not. It's to drop the floor pans and have somewhere for the services to go. Lower floors make a small car seem bigger.
Does the A6 have the same feature as the Q6? The best EV feature I've ever seen?
Charging point on both sides! Why don't they all do that?
Charging point on both sides! Why don’t they all do that?
It's not quite as useful as it first appears, as whilst there are AC charging connections on both sides only one side is DC.
Could also have hit the operating limit of the battery, basically won’t take any more input without impacting on it’s ability to deliver output, even though it’s not full!
That makes no sense at all, Mert. Got a technical explanation with a link?
Which was my original point and is correct whatever an i4 owner might claim for their “special” car.
nothing special, it just does what says on the tin in normal British weather (fairly cold and hilly south Lanarkshire, frosty and snowy days quite common in winter) it works exactly the same every day, from a drivers perspective. Nerds may disagree..
@nixie I'll update in a couple of weeks, done some local driving over the weekend and a 100mile round trip today. I really like it. It's comfy, quiet, feels well put together and is really easy to drive. Had a go with the regenerative braking, not sure it made much difference but I have the same journey again tomorrow so may try without. Got pretty much 3.5mi/kWh both ways today, on shorter journeys over the weekend I got more like 4. Looks wise, I don't much like the front but I do like the rear. Not sure about stuff like the augmented reality HUD, partly it's nice for nav while I'm getting used to where everything is but also partly a bit distracting. Other stuff in the HUD is nice (I come from a Mazda 6 with flip up screen type HUD so I like having the data there). Discovered I have different 'modes' - eco, comfort, sport and individual (I originally thought these were for DCC but it let me select each one so maybe not) - not sure any of them made any real difference.
Entry/ exit stuff is nice, I like getting in and the radio turning on immediately, not sure the seat moving back and forth is really of any benefit. Need to work out if there is any kind of memory function in the mirrors for different driver profiles. Also not sure how the seat memory works for different drivers.
On the whole, so far I'm really pleased and the gadget freak in me loves all the bells and whistles. I got the bog standard car with no options except black metallic paint and it still does absolutely tonnes of cool stuff.
When it stops raining (next year maybe?) I'll put some bikes in it.
Had a go with the regenerative braking
The brakes always regenerate even if you press the pedal - so don't sweat the regen settings it's just preference.
That would explain why it didn’t seem to make any difference to the range/ efficiency figures. Good to know, thanks.
it works exactly the same every day, from a drivers perspective.
Brake blending, if the battery won't take current, it uses the friction brakes. Consistency over all else.
Nerds agree.
That makes no sense at all, Mert.
It makes perfect sense, keep ramming/cycling energy into a battery from regen (which can *easily* hit the maximum charge rate of the battery) it heats up faster than you can cool it. That in turn restricts the power you can safely deliver from the battery (RMS battery limit is what the nerds call it). At some point the deliverable power hits a point that the manufacturer considers the lowest acceptable from a performance standpoint. Then it'll start prioritising friction brakes and minimising the regen.
Some EV's when you pop them into sport mode have no regen at all, 100% friction, to maximise the performance off the line.
It's even an issue when rapid charging, if you stop charging while you're actually at a 100+kW rate and have been for a while, then try to drive away immediately, the cars performance will be lacking.
Got a technical explanation with a link?
No.
Drove in this morning, regen "off light' on. When you prod the icon, the notes say regen may not work fully with a cold or fully charged battery. I had some one foot braking so not binary off/on.
There is a whole page of graphs and stats in the menus which I stopped looking at after a week or so..
Need to pump the tyres up now the temp has dropped... Good stereo...
There is a whole page of graphs and stats in the menus which I stopped looking at after a week or so
Is this on the in car menu, I can't see anything via the app?
Need to pump the tyres up now the temp has dropped…
Same here, noticed that little symbol at the weekend.
Good stereo…
Also this, was very happy to find the Berlin RWD still have the Premium stereo (US models don't) and it's very good.
Is this on the in car menu, I can’t see anything via the app?
Yes, can't remember where as I set it as a shortcut when I set all the menus up.
Still makes no sense, max regen on model 3/y is 76 kW and an average of 20-35kW provides all the braking you need on an alpine descent within the law, it depends on gradient and speed obviously but that's the order of magnitude. The battery cooling system can easily handle that charge level even on the hottest day. I doubt davy was hooning it. Battery already full/ very nearly ful seems the best explanation as he thought rather than nerd possibilites that might be possible if you drive flat out down Pikes Peak.
In Northumberland for a few days and needed a top up this afternoon, BMW i4 and down at 30%. Nav suggested Ionity HPC in Alnwick, which was just a few mins away. Silly me didn’t realise that 5 of the 6 chargers needed the App and I think subscription, the remaining one was card only and not working……
hey ho, went for lunch and subsequent walk at Joiners Arms and Low Newton beach with the dog and then popped up to the Tesla chargers on the A1 at Adderstone - was 430pm by this stage so busy, had to wait 15 mins to get a charger accessible on the ‘wrong side’ flap, then plugged in for exactly 20 mins, taking it from 23% to 72% and costing just under £26. That’ll get us home tomorrow with about 15% remaining and back to cheap home charging.
You get three years subs for Ionity and BP with the I4 and BMW charging. Did you not sign up?
^^ I signed up and it was only free for a year, from purchase last July. I had notifications that I’d need to go to an annual subscription after the first 12 months so cancelled it as I rarely charge away from home.
Octopus Electroverse card works on Ionity, you just tap and go. Octopus energy customers can bill to their account, but anyone can get one and bill to a credit/debit card. No costs outside of the charging itself.
Electroverse is bloody magic, just works (well it has so far)
IainC - ah, I see.
I didn't sign up as I have an Allstar Chargepass which is yet to be defeated by any charger - even Chargeplace Scotland.
Octopus energy customers can bill to their account
Yep, it bills you randomly in addition to your monthly leccy bills leading to great confusion some weeks later until you remember this fact 🙂
yup just tap and go....they wait to see if they actually do charge you ('m still waiting for a booths charge to appear from 4 months ago)
Bikes upright in the ID.7 boot... I'm not convinced personally, it was a bit of a faff when I'm used to taking the front wheel off and just shoving it in on its side in my saloon (half of the problem is I'm currently terrified of scratching the thing). You could definitely get two in like this, maybe even three if you are good at tetris. They unfortunately don't go the other way around even with the movable floor totally removed. Boot opening at the edge is not high enough for a 29er wheel, and the seats don't fold low enough to stop the slammed seat from touching the roof when going the other way around. I'll probably get some new roof bar feet and stick to using the roof racks or when it's just me, removing front wheel and throwing it in on its side.
Have used the electroverse app a couple of times locally and for the different providers round here it has worked flawlessly. Have a Uni open day trip coming up, so will use it in earnest then. The BMW folks didn't seem interested in telling us about the BMW charging service, so will just use Electroverse as seems so well thougth out. Do need to see how well (if at all) it integrates w Android auto. ZapMap premium says it works w android auto, but haven't tried. Any recommendations?
Anyone looking to install a charger in Sussex, i can recommend VoltEV in Buxted. Very responsive, really helpful and friendly. Installed in less time than it took to even get a reply from the Octopus EV team.
Bikes upright in the ID.7 boot…
Ta. FWIW I've bodged some stands for the rear axle using 4x2 and ply so I can stand bikes up with both wheels off which means they fit in the back of the standard issue Octavia estate with the forks in the dropped floor. That makes it easier for bigger trips away with luggage and bikes, but for day trips they still go on their side with front wheel off.
Argh I forgot there’s an extra space underneath the floor.. I’ll see if I can use that to lower everything enough.
Have the SMMT just shot themselves in the foot? They've asked HM Gov for more tax breaks to boost EV sales, partly for business buyers but also to get similar tax breaks for private buyers. So anyone who's pondering a move to an EV (waves) is now going to defer that decision for a few weeks while this is resolved, and in the short term there will even fewer private buyers.
Extra tax breaks for EVs could be seen as direct investment in industry, but unless they are careful the side benefits will go straight to the better off people buying or leasing the more expensive new cars. There could be better ways to do this.
If they ploughed lots of money into on-street charging it would arguably open up a large market that is not currently able to take advantage of cheap motoring (quite possibly the ones who need it most). Or, for a bit more long term thinking, they could invest directly in cheap battery production and innovation in the UK and sell the batteries at cost to UK builders.
I see that the next generation Samsung solid state batteries have some impressive stats - 600 mile range, 9 minute charging to 80% and a 20 year lifespan. That could make on-street charging irrelevant as long as you can get a decent rate at charging stations which the average person would only need to use once or twice a month.
That could make on-street charging irrelevant
It’s the £/kw.hr issue that makes on-street charging appealing. Rapids require a lot of investment - a direct connection to a substation and expensive charger hardware - several tens of thousands if not into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. That has to be recouped - from the users hence rapids cost a lot to use. 7kW chargers meanwhile are fundamentally just a tap off the existing mains supply so the cable network is already there and hardware is cheap if mass manufactured.
Extra tax breaks for EVs could be seen as direct investment in industry, but unless they are careful the side benefits will go straight to the better off people buying or leasing the more expensive new cars.
No the tax breaks will be trousered by the OEMs who will hike their prices by the amount of the tax break/subsidy as we saw with the EV grant.
Consider the investment and running costs in a petrol service station, whatgoesup. And then it requires a tanker turning up regulary. However because the turnover is high they make a profit, and that despite tiny margins. As I was sat at one of the 23/24 occupied Superchargers recently I did some mental sums on how much Tesla was making based on the average occupancy of those chargers:
The average occupancy shown on the app was about a third and I'll assume the cars charging were pulling about 100kW (I was the only non Tesla)
So 8 x 100 x 24 = 19200kWh a day which is 7008000kWh a year.
I'll make an edukated guess of Tesla making 15 cents/kWh. Even with that modest margin the charge station makes over a million euros a year. I doubt they're losing money on them and what fantastic publicity for the brand they are.
Now consider what the not very competitive competitors are making with their mark up of around 55cents on motorway service areas.
All that to say I think Shinton makes a good point: Public charging stations, 250kW charging and solidstate batteries are more likely to be the future than charge points in lamp posts.
In my nearly 8 years of EV ownership I've seen models come and go very quickly:
The Renault Fluence is designed around a quick change battery - garages capable of doing that redundant.
7kW chargers in villages - now all removed (the plug standard is redundant anyhow)
22kW AC chargers in ones and twos all over the place - only used by locals, nobody uses them on a long journey anymore except maybe Zoe owners with the 22kW onboard charger. I haven't used one for a couple of years.
50kW DC they usually gave between 25 and 40 in reality, if I come across one now I'm pissed off.
250kW DC now were talkin ! and I think they're the future rather than 3.5-7kW from a lampost.
No the tax breaks will be trousered by the OEMs who will hike their prices by the amount of the tax break/subsidy as we saw with the EV grant.
The directors won't just put the money in their bank account, that's not how it works. They will keep the prices high (they are already hiked) but they'll continue to invest it in R&D and production of more and cheaper EVs. They'll have to, otherwise they'll go bankrupt. The top brass in these companies are already very rich.
I see that the next generation Samsung solid state batteries have some impressive stats – 600 mile range, 9 minute charging to 80% and a 20 year lifespan.
Everyone's working on these, and they all have numbers like that. But it won't be used for 600 mile range cars (or at least not many). They will make 300 mile range cars that are 2/3 the price they are now and smaller and lighter. The minute they put a 600 mile car on the market and people are faced with the choice of a 30k car or the same car at 50k with more range, they'll realise that 300 miles is enough.
We need on-street charging regardless. Because we have a surplus of power overnight, and people won't want to drive to a rapid charger at 3am.
they all have numbers like that. But it won’t be used for 600 mile range cars (or at least not many). They will make 300 mile range cars that are 2/3 the price they are now and smaller and lighter.
Agreed. 400+ mile range is a nice marketing statement but fairly pointless if you can charge conveniently. The persistence of the ‘fill it up occasionally’ idea might shift eventually.
With ~200 notional miles of range I had no problems. With more range these days I still have a similar number of stops but, thanks to higher capacity and faster charging, with the problem that by the time I’ve been to the toilet I’m getting the ‘charging is nearly finished for your onward journey. Overstay fees may apply’ or whatever.
The directors won’t just put the money in their bank account, that’s not how it works.
That's not what I meant and you know it.
They will keep the prices high (they are already hiked) but they’ll continue to invest it in R&D and production of more and cheaper EVs.
If prices are already hiked why are you suggesting we give them even more money in the hope that they will give us cheaper EVs in the future rather than increased dividends to shareholders? Seems rather naive.
I'm emailing out for quotes for a charger installation, any recommendations in Surrey / Surrey Hants borders?
Also thinking where to put it - does it need to be a certain height from floor, for example?
any recommendations in Surrey / Surrey Hants borders?
https://www.earthelectrical.tech/
Andy did our solar & battery install and I'd have no hesitation in recommending him (and Harry)
250kW DC now were talkin ! and I think they’re the future rather than 3.5-7kW from a lampost
Two different customers surely. The lampposts are for local residents who park on the street overnight, the fast chargers are for folk on long journeys who are don't have enough juice to make it back to their home charger/lamppost.
That’s not what I meant and you know it.
Not really - what do you mean by 'trouser' the money? Share dividends? Perhaps, but most of these companies are fighting tooth and nail over market share so I doubt it.
If prices are already hiked why are you suggesting we give them even more money in the hope that they will give us cheaper EVs in the future
Well, they are already piling money into R&D - we know this. There are many startups working on battery tech and most of them are being funded by the manufacturers who are their future customers - makes sense. There is still a massive amount of investment needed - we need cheap decent EVs, and we need charging (manufacturers are also investing in charging certainly in the USA, not sure about here). But we need production facilities too. From memory, 1 in 5 new cars registered in the EU are now electric but that still means 4 in 5 are ICE. If they want 5 in 5 to be electric they need a huge ramp-up in production and battery manufacturing even with today's tech, never mind having to get an advantage over the opposition with technological innovations. Hyundai just opened a new factory in the US for example - that's where part of the UK government tax-break on new EVs went.
Two different customers surely. The lampposts are for local residents who park on the street overnight, the fast chargers are for folk on long journeys who are don’t have enough juice to make it back to their home charger/lamppost.
Indeed. At the moment, the lack of lampost chargers (or equivalent) mean it is not viable for me to get a BEV at all.
If i did have one, a superfast charger would be a nice-to-have. But not a gamechanger in the same way that lampost chargers would be.
How would those in favour of lampost chargers feel if there were rows of 250kW chargers on the exits of large supermarkets, DIY store and places they regularly go? Every one I knew in Brum used to fill up with petrol at Tescos, filling up with leccy for a couple of weeks would take 10-20 minutes under a dry canopy?
I agree with Molgrip's point about favouring night time charging but the population with drive ways will already be doing that. From an infrastruture point of view it strikes me as easier, cheaper and less digging to put in a few thick cables than a lot of thin ones. From a maintainance point of view too. I wonder if there are any stats on the proportion of UK households that have a driveway or private off-road car parking that could be equipped with a private socket. Every lampost won't be enough anyhow and create parking rage worse than we have already as people squable over the (looks out of the window) 7 cars per lampost.