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ha. old Octavia, new LEAF here. + battery though, for a bit more comfort range. Still had to draft a lorry into Edinburgh not long after I got it to eke out the "8 miles to empty" warning.
Yeah, I thought long and hard about the chademo thing (bought a new 62 last year) coming from a CCS car but can't say I've wished I was on CCS instead in the last 18 months. Instavolt, MFG, Shell, Osprey and some others have been quietly rolling out loads of good sites with chademo on every unit. Used to avoid the motorway services because they were useless for CCS, now mostly avoid them because they get crowded, although even the new big hubs (Rugby, Exeter, Reading etc) aren't badly catered for.
Having the bigger battery means I want to stop before the car does, on a long trip I can easily hit a good site rather than a lonely old BP unit in a pub carpark. More destination charging is great too, had a day at an office 175 miles away and made it there without charging, 7 hours on the office charger and I made it home without an extra charge too.
I'm planning to keep mine longer term, my hope is that in a few years there'll be some more aftermarket conversion options (Muxsan have one but £££) and I can just swap to CCS.
@DrP - you say you used a Tesla station, interesting - you have a LEAF, I'd have thought it would baulk at the CCS / CHAdeMO thing -- is there an adapter you used?
the leaf has 2 plugs on it..
Chademo, and a type 2 socket..
DrP
ah, I assume all Tesla charge points were CCS and Tesla only. So you can use the Type 2 - cheers.
In Aviemore there's a bank of Teslas - and a very sorry CCS / CHAdeMo station. I'll sign up and explore.
Tesla have superchargers (CCS only) and destination chargers (type 2) at places like hotels and restaurants. They usually have one or more that are Tesla only with a red sign and one or more that are for anyone with a white sign.
https://teslaowners.org.uk/guides/tesla-destination-chargers-explained
but then you have to plan when caravanning anyway.
Errr, what?
Get in, drive.
I don't plan at all...
Get in, drive.
I don’t plan at all…
I do. I look at where I can go; where I can stop for lunch; wether or not I can get to the caravan site easily or if I'll be faced with miles of narrow lanes; how much windy country road there will be so I can avoid holding people up too much... then there's all the normal holiday planning on top.
Tesla have superchargers (CCS only) and destination chargers (type 2) at places like hotels and restaurants. They usually have one or more that are Tesla only with a red sign and one or more that are for anyone with a white sign.
For further clarity, the big white chargers units you see in banks of 8 or so are ‘Superchargers’, DC rapid chargers operating at between 120kw and 250kw. These are CCS only for non-Teslas. Some of these unit have two cables, on one cable appears to be a Type 2 cable. It’s not. It’s a bastardised version of Type that will only DC charge a Tesla Model S or X. It won’t charge anything else.
A Leaf cannot be charged by a Tesla Supercharger as it doesn’t have CCS. It could be charged by Tesla AC Destination charger using Type 2. These are small silver units that look like home chargers.
Here's my non Tesla charging at Tesla open for all charging station.
The welcome lights on the Corsa e are pretty decent.
A Zoe pulled in to charge whilst I was there. Charge port on the Corsa e is in the same place as Tesla cars which is handy.
Car's being collected tomorrow.
The lease company wanted £13,500 for it, which is pretty good for a 2 year old 14k mile car. And from what I can tell that seems to be LESS than the petrol hybrids, which is interesting. It's about £1k less than the going rate for that mileage.
If I had known about this option before and I was prepared I would probably have taken it up, but as it is now we have 6 weeks where no second car is needed, then I think we will wait and see if we can manage with one. The big question is wether or not my wife can park the diesel on the street where she works. The longer we can get by with one the more money we will save, but also prices seem to be plummeting so waiting 6 months could save us even more. I swear the Ioniq EVs were more last time I looked.
I do. I look at where I can go; where I can stop for lunch; wether or not I can get to the caravan site easily or if I’ll be faced with miles of narrow lanes; how much windy country road there will be so I can avoid holding people up too much… then there’s all the normal holiday planning on top.
I suspect you're overthinking things...
You don't worry that you'll rock up somewhere with a caravan and not be able to park, or drive in and not be able to get out?
Pretty difficult in the UK to park anywhere with a caravan that's not a country layby or motorway services.
You don’t worry that you’ll rock up somewhere with a caravan and not be able to park, or drive in and not be able to get out?
10 years of caravaning and 20+ years of heavy trailer towing, it's not happened yet.
Pretty difficult in the UK to park anywhere with a caravan that’s not a country layby or motorway services.
Admittedly, i've never been in the UK with a caravan, just big ballast trailers. But not had an issue.
I've had plenty of difficulties. Once I forgot my bike lock, needed to stop on the way to get one. Parking at a Halfords in a retail park needed a bit of care, and we still got bollocked.
Probably thought you were advance party of travellers scoping out a site!
I'd more or less put our EV purchase on hold, but I've resurrected it havjng seen the MG4. The thing that attracts me of course is the price, but beyond that it seems from reviews that it is actually a decent car, and - better and better - they are available to buy, rather than just put your name at the end of a long waiting list, and also there is a dealer within Brompton-riding distance of us (Alnwick) in case things go wrong.
Usually about now I realise I'm missing something. Please help me by pointing it out before money changes hands!
Yeah that's certainly how we got treated despite very obviously being middle class holiday makers.
@DrJ not much to add here other than prices may be falling rapidly in the next year or so. Or not.. who knows? 😉
Autotrader value of mine dropped about £6k this year, recon it's worth being patient and considering used?
It's what I'm going to do. My car today got taken to auction, I reckon with the prices falling fast it won't get much at auction at all because dealers won't want to buy a liability.
It's being sold at Mannheim in Witton in Cambridgeshire apparently... Quite tempted to take a look. I bet it'll go for less than Arval wanted.
Incidentally the list price was £27k; we paid them £7.5k and they offered it to us for £13.5k. That's a £6k loss if the price on the contract was what they paid for it.
Wow. Like Molgrips I have an Ioniq EV. The autotrader values have plummeted just in the last couple of months. Had to buy at the peak of the market in summer 2021 due to job changes but was holding steady and suddenly dropped off. Some good deals out there on low mileage EVs - wish they were at those prices when we were looking!
In contrast, the Corolla Touring Hybrids that i also looked at (for about 4K less than the ionic in 2021) have held or look to have actually increased in price (even taking into account 2+yrs of mileage).
Will be a difficult dilemma when we get to the final payment, as at the current rate the car could be worth less than the final value. (not helped by our mileage)
We've got a '57 Golf that is on its way out & we're looking at a replacement for it. One car family, 95% of our journeys are within 40 miles (in the last year we've been done approx 4 trips over 250 miles) and we go to the beach a fair bit so need a boot that's no smaller than the Golf (2 under 10s with SUPS, body boards, wetsuits, buckets & spades etc). We've also got a Saris Bones 3 for bike carrier duties.
Given our mileage & use profile above we reckon an EV fits the bill and with a budget of £14k its looking like a newer Leaf ticks most of the boxes. We'd like a plus but budgets not going to stretch to that so likely 2018 onwards N Connecta or Tekna (for the few long journeys we do a year we'll borrow/hire an ICE).
Anything to look out for on second hand 2018 onwards leafs/leaves (?) & advice would be much appreciated. Likewise if there's anything else with a suitable boot & within budget we should be looking at. After looking at a few online & in person it looks like the leaf has one of the bigger EV boots.
Cheers
There's not a lot that goes wrong with them. It's rare for 2018 on to lose a "bar" of capacity (you can find it by scrolling through the dash menus, left-most icon) but you can get much more detailed info with a cheap OBD dongle and an app called Leafspy. Probably most common mechanical thing - if it makes a noticeable "click" when you come on/off the throttle then it's driveshafts - either a warranty job or a straightforward strip/grease/retorque if not in warranty. If it's for sale at a dealer just get them to resolve.
Else it's just the usual car buying checks. Plenty used as taxis but that should come up on a check. They're good cars, boot is huge.
If you want a warranty then Nissan's "good to go" scheme is pretty good, extended warranty, servicing, MOT and breakdown cover wrapped up for £34 a month. https://www.nissan.co.uk/owners/nissan-services/good-to-go.html You can stay on it until 10 years or 100k miles.
https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/why-electric-car-prices-dropping-b1085646.html
In 6 months some EVs have dropped a third, whilst petrol cars have on average dropped 0.5%
Given our mileage & use profile above we reckon an EV fits the bill and with a budget of £14k its looking like a newer Leaf ticks most of the boxes.
In my view, the Leaf is a nicer car to drive than the Ioniq EV I looked at, but the range is lower to begin with and much more variable. Not all cars have heat pumps but it was an option. People are talking about Leafs and EVs generally losing a third of their range in winter, but our Ioniq EV would only drop about 10% at worst. Also, it actually gets the WTLP range, so it reported about 203 miles in summer, with mixed driving, and about 175 in winter. That's why I'll almost certainly get another, rather than a Leaf. In engineering terms it's brilliant.
On the 40kWh Leaf, only the Visia (very basic, and rare) and late 2021 onwards Acenta lack a heat pump. Everything else should have one.
I lived without one for 2 years in the egolf, it was definitely worse in winter but it didn't really bother me much day to day. Either you're tootling around well within the range, or you're doing a long trip and need to rapid charge regardless.
It's more the unpredictability. I knew I could always do a certain trip or make it to a certain charger regardless in the Ioniq because it was so consistent.
Thanks all
The OBD dongle - is that something I'd buy online & any seller would be happy for me to plug in when looking at their car?
We'd hoped the golf would last us longer (up till recently it's been faultless), ideally to the stage where battery tech & associated range is better for our budget but alas we need to buy nowish & buying an ICE just seems wrong.
We had a look at other EVs but budget & boot means the Leaf wins. Given our use we don't think the winter range will be a massive issue for us given the likely distances. Just means we'll charge it more often during the week .
Any recommendations on wall chargers? We don't have solar but smart charging, so it speaks to our energy supplier (octopus) for cheaper periods overnight, sounds great.
Autotrader value of mine dropped about £6k this year, recon it’s worth being patient and considering used?
Any recommendations on where to look for user EV? I bought our last fossil car from Cazoo and I was very pleased with the car though their after sales service has been abysmal. I know zero about cars (in case you hadn’t noticed) so some sort of reputable dealer would be valued.
Try your local car dealers. Or ones within a reasonable distance.
Take a photo of the vin number and log on to the app associated with the car as if you were the owner and check out as much as you can about the car.
Any recommendations on wall chargers?
Ohme, so you can get Intelligent Octopus and 7.5p/kWh with any car. They recommend to leave it plugged in all the time when it's at home.
Someone at work paid £40k for a Model S 18 months ago, it's now worth £20k... ouch.
Usually about now I realise I’m missing something. Please help me by pointing it out before money changes hands!
@DRJ - we've had ours for a couple of months/1500 miles. It's been fantastic. Fun to drive, efficient, decent size 'boot' (big dog), etc. We've not done any really long trips (max 140 miles in a day) and it's always charged at home (so far). Downside?
- lane assist is rubbish. Get in car, turn off
- Quite wide sills, defo open door fully, could see that dragging mud in in winter
- Software is okay rather than great, bit laggy but nothing major
- I can't quite get the seat tilted back enough for me, but fine for better half (it's her car)
- No rear speakers or lights in the back
That's really it. For what we paid for it, it's brilliant. I really enjoy driving it, it's defo powerful enough and even with the 'small' battery absolutely works for us.
An EV is believed to have a caused a fire on a car transport ship in the North Sea. Unable to extinguish the blaze, one sailor has died, and 7 others jumped into the sea to escape. The remaining crew were rescued by helicopter.
The ship is still on fire and is listing according to the coastguard.
I wonder if this will have any knock-ons for tourist ferries/chunnel etc (the latter already has restrictions on LPG converted cars for example).
We've just done our first long trip/holiday in our Kia Soul, 3 adults with tandem on roof we were just under 4mi/kWh for the long drive up and down (mostly motorway) and the 260 miles (one way) trip needed just a little top-up easily managed during one of our stops. Could easily have driven further in a day if necessary but living slap bang in the middle of the country, 260 miles reaches most parts!
Smart cruise control including lane assist/keep was lovely on the motorway and it was very comfortable and relaxing to drive, but I always switch off the lane assist for local roads cos it's just a pain in the arse with the random beeps and tugs on steering wheel.
I wonder if this will have any knock-ons for tourist ferries/chunnel etc (the latter already has restrictions on LPG converted cars for example).
Doubt it, EVs are less likely than ICE vehicles to catch fire in the first place.
You'd hope, but transport operators have been known to do spectacularly stupid things, like requiring bicycle tyres to be deflated for flying.
Must say, having looked at used EV's a year ago, then just recently, the residual values have absolutely bottomed - losing 50% for a low mileage two year old car. ICE seem to be retaining value.
Must say, having looked at used EV’s a year ago, then just recently, the residual values have absolutely bottomed – losing 50% for a low mileage two year old car. ICE seem to be retaining value.
Yep, we've just bought a spotless, nearly 3 year old eNiro-4 25K miles from a dealer for £20.5K. When looking on auto-trader similar age/spec petrol Niros were the same price.
Doubt it, EVs are less likely than ICE vehicles to catch fire in the first place
Do you have any evidence for that?
I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested not looking to disprove anyone :o)
The WBAC values seem to be going up so buy your cheap secondhand EVs now if you can.
Unfortunately car transporter ship fires are not that rare. Felicity Ace last year was initially blamed on an EV fire but no evidence of that - they do keep on going once they're on fire though.
If you google it, you will get figures saying that EV fires are between 17 and 100 times less likely the ICE fires.
I think there are a lot of caveats and conditions to that. It looks like hybrids are the worst culprits. I don't know if that's because they have the weaknesses of both technologies or something specific to do with hybrid drive.
EV fires are probably more likely during charging, so not relevant to car carriers like this one. Some ferries do allow charging though (or did until recently).
Fires on car carriers are very hard to put out, regardless of the type of car, but EV fires do have particular problems - they get very hot and even after appearing to be extinguished and can reignite. You need a lot of water to cool them down and this isn't an option on car carriers - not least because they get unstable fast.
If cars could use drop-out battery packs and be shipped as a "bare unit" it would make it a lot safer.
Could potentially save money if cars all used a common design too. You could rent the battery and choose the capacity to suit you at the time: city runabouts get a small, light powerpack. Much more efficient being lightweight.
Long journey coming up? Pop into the garage and swap for an XL pack that will give you 500 miles (could also stop at a garage en-route and swap out your empty battery for a full one at the services while you get a coffee).
Eliminates concerns about battery lifetimes and stabilises car values (maybe a bad thing ?)
I appreciate there are a thousand problems with this idea at the moment, but I'm enjoying the daydreaming
If you google it, you will get figures saying that EV fires are between 17 and 100 times less likely the ICE fires.
And if you look at the actual numbers they don't actually say how many fires per electric population that translates to.
eg:
In the UK, Air Quality News made an in-depth study of the EV fire threat, and discovered that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade tackled 54 fires in EVs, compared to 1,898 in petrol and diesel cars. A more recent study by Health & Safety specialist CE Safety suggested there had been 735 call-outs to EV fires in the UK over the past five years – but this included all types of EV including scooters and bikes, with cars representing just 44% of the total – so around 323 when there are close to 33 million cars on the UK’s roads…
Okay, so 323 EV fires compared to 1898 IC. Even if they were equally likely that would mean EV's make up 14% of all road vehicles.
Doing a bit of digging I found this:
here:
Which says at end of Q4 2022 battery propelled vehicles (hybrid electric, plug-in hybrid and BEV) accounted for 6.1+ % of all road going vehicles (diesel plug-in and range extended electric are both marked as non-zero but not measurable figures).
So assuming 0.1 for each (that's actually a measurable figure so I'm being generous), that's 6.3% of all vehicles having battery propulsion of some flavour, far short of the 14% the London figures show. Now I realise London isn't representative and will ikely have a higher %age of EV's, I can't find a table that shows this properly (VEH0105 doesn't show all types of EV) but if someone else wants to do some spreadsheet ****ery fill your boots, there might be some overlapping info that would inform better.
Long journey coming up? Pop into the garage and swap for an XL pack that will give you 500 miles (could also stop at a garage en-route and swap out your empty battery for a full one at the services while you get a coffee).
Or, even easier, just have it as a plug in option for a trailer pack.
@lodger years ago, well before EV were even really early adopters, the chap who founded SAP bought out a paper from his think tank on exactly this. Common design and chemistry, swappable at garages etc. we can see how well it took.
One of the issues the grossly incompetent management of British Volt ran in to, and failed to solve (unlike NorthVolt and several others) was how to produce batteries in different packaging for different customers.
From an OEM car manufacturers perspective, it’s tricky, as the packs are very large and the way you design and incorporate them becomes your USP and IP.
Yep, we’ve just bought a spotless, nearly 3 year old eNiro-4 25K miles from a dealer for £20.5K. When looking on auto-trader similar age/spec petrol Niros were the same price.
I'd say that's more because second hand ICE car prices are insane rather than electric is cheap. Over 20k for a three year old, mid size Kia?
@lodger, I think it is Sweden that has an EV car company that does just that...they have a range of cars and there are 4 or 5 locations that you can drive into and they can do an almost hot swap of the battery pack - you don't ever do any recharging of the battery as the location does that, but you pay for the battery usage - which seemed to be about the same price as it would be to charge it.
I read about it last yeat on the BBC News website, so the country is a bit hazy, but the concept of getting the battery swapped is already being looked at and used in some country. Makes a lot of sense as the location would like have a more consistent and suitable charging solution, so hopefully the batteries have a longer life due to a discharge/recharge cycle that is more efficient for it.
Edit - found the article - it was Norway, not Sweden! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61310513
Also, it looks like Toyota might be looking at a cartridge battery system as well - https://mag.toyota.co.uk/ev-battery-swap-toyota-joins-cartridge-batteries-research/
Do you have any evidence for that?
I’m asking because I’m genuinely interested not looking to disprove anyone :o)
It will all depend on what evidence you look at tbh. I'm a Fire Fighter and we have been looking at electric cars in more detail recently. Ultimately there will be less fires in electric cars atm as they are newer and less prone to fault. Most car fires we attend are electrical faults, often in older cars or are deliberate.
The problem with electric cars comes if the battery goes in to thermal runaway as by that point it is very difficult to put the fire out and the chances of re-ignition are very high. There is genuine talk of producing mobile tanks of water that an electric car can be picked up and put in! For this too happen though almost always means the battery has been in an accident or suffered significant shock. Even then the numbers across the world are in the hundreds so hardly a huge concern.
Basically you are more likely to have a fire in an ICE vehicle but the outcome may well be worse in an electric one.