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I count ourselves lucky as we nearly ended up with a 3rd one at our depot. Mitsubishi said we could have the last 3 in the country but they wouldn't convert them to vans, so the company I work for refused to have them.
Worth noting that NMC chemistry found in most car batteries much less thermally stable and want to ignite Vs life4po found in (recent)house batteries before someone makes that comparison.
Fair point (I'm assuming you meant more thermally stable there?)
I’m hoping so!
I have an A-Class PHEV which gets plugged in at home and at work (where I get free leccy).
Over 19500 miles, the car has recorded 202mpg. I mostly drive to and from work on full electric but am regularly up and back to Nottingham, from Kent, wheee I’ll balance the battery use myself so that it is on, or as close to, 0% when I get home. Typical mpg in that circumstance will be around 65.
Soo...having had the leaf for a few days, and driven about 120 miles, I've averaged 0.17kwh/km... Which is about 3.6miles/kw....
What sort of figures are you lot getting?
Have just stuck some aero roof bars on it, ready to receive a pair of racks.. Wonder how much that'll drop the economy!
Drp
Tesla 3 sr+ last longer trip with temp 6-8° was 4 miles per kw, once the weather warms up looking at nearer 5 miles per kw.
Long term average in our Hyundai Ioniq EV (not the 5) is currently 4.6 over 10k miles we've had it. Worst case is about 4.1, motorway trips are between 4.5 and 4.8 depending on weather, and the best scores are from certain suburban trips where we can get 5.5, sometimes over 6 depending on the route. Once we got 7.1 on the way into town.
But that's about as efficient as normal EVs get. 3.6 is still decent.
Wonder how much that’ll drop the economy!
A lot.
Cheers... It's pretty cold here, so I guess I'm starting on a bad footing...
DrP
63 grand and it doesn’t even have electric seats and lumbar support was an option apparently
Sure they’re not part of a subscription option? BMW, along with a few other companies seem keen on fitting all the features you’ve come to expect, then making you pay an annual subscription to unlock them. If they’re fitted, then it seems reasonable to find a way to hack them and **** BMW and it’s ripping off customers.
Speaking of BMW, anyone seen their new Mini EV convertible? £52,000, with 120 mile range! That is just taking the piss! 🤬
DrP - our Leaf (62kwh) is averaging about 3mi/kWh over the last few months but it’s preheating every morning and quite a few short trips running the kids about (ie lots of heating loss). London to Birmingham and back on the motorway in just above freezing weather was about 3.5.
Actually, coming up for a year with it - from the stats in the app it’s just about 3.5 average over that time.
Soo…having had the leaf for a few days, and driven about 120 miles, I’ve averaged 0.17kwh/km… Which is about 3.6miles/kw….
I work in wH/Mile, so that’s 273.
My long term average over 20,000 miles of mainly motorway driving in a Tesla Model 3 Performance is 286. That BMW I had on test was returning similar.
BMW electric seats…
Sure they’re not part of a subscription option? BMW, along with a few other companies seem keen on fitting all the features you’ve come to expect, then making you pay an annual subscription to unlock them. If they’re fitted, then it seems reasonable to find a way to hack them and **** BMW and it’s ripping off customers.
Nope. You need to spec the “Comfort Plus Pack” at £2050 to get electric seats. Lumbar for driver is available for a mere £215 and lumbar for driver+passenger for £290. Unlesss you buy the top M50 at £72,000. Then you get electric seats but still have to pay for lumbar adjustment.
The two software update options they offer are adaptive cruise control and self parking. Both are cheaper just to spec outright when buying the car. Although the post-purchase software update is at least permanent and not a subscription.
Either way, I’ve decided the BMW isn’t for me. I found the Polestar more comfortable, it’s vastly cheaper, and I think it looks better.
If they’re fitted, then it seems reasonable to find a way to hack them and **** BMW and it’s ripping off customers.
Well not really - if they're fitted, but you aren't paying for them then they are being sold at a loss. You either pay for the items on a subscription, or you pay for them up front, but not paying for them at all is technically cheating. You may not like the subscription model, but that doesn't really give you a moral reason to simply help yourself to the goods anyway.
If you really want to **** BMW don't buy one of their cars.
I’m still struggling with the fact someone thought it was a good idea to make a car that used all it’s electric first rather than be a functional hybrid. I guess it must have been a stipulation to qualify for the bik loophole
a) It's simple to do that. Proper hybrid strategies are incredibly complex and time consuming to develop, test and certify.
b) Makes the car look incredibly good on NEDC and WLTP cycles. (I know one of the early PHEVs i worked on, way back when, it was *just* possible to certify at about 750mpg if we tweaked a couple of parameters. Fantastic for BIK and advertising, completely unachievable in the real world, would also destroy the battery in a couple of years.)
c) In reality, you probably cover over 90% of peoples driving by having a ~30 mile range and dumping the battery first, as long as they can charge regularly.
A neighbour has Mitsi SUV PHEVs, he's on his third or fourth, he hates them.
But his brother in law sells them
Nope. You need to spec the “Comfort Plus Pack” at £2050 to get electric seats. Lumbar for driver is available for a mere £215 and lumbar for driver+passenger for £290. Unless you buy the top M50 at £72,000. Then you get electric seats but still have to pay for lumbar adjustment.
on my order, where I selected leather seats, and a towbar, it added the Comfort pack as a required option. It seems to have extra backrest adjusters, along with unlocking when the key is in proximity along with the 'wave your foot under the bumper to open the tailgate' thingy.
Either way, I’ve decided the BMW isn’t for me. I found the Polestar more comfortable, it’s vastly cheaper, and I think it looks better.
gotta go with what works for you, and good you had the opportunity to try them. I quite fancied the Polestar also, and had a play on the Tusker car configurator with it - when I went for long range and leather, to equate to the i4 spec I had selected, it was only £8 less a month than the BMW.
What sort of figures are you lot getting?
Have just stuck some aero roof bars on it, ready to receive a pair of racks.. Wonder how much that’ll drop the economy!
On a Tesla Model 3 LR I've averaged 230Wh/mile (4.3 miles/kWh) over 20,000 miles. Mostly motorway driving with cruise control pegged at 72, and occasional boosts up to 75 to pass traffic in the middle lane.
You may not like the subscription model, but that doesn’t really give you a moral reason to simply help yourself to the goods anyway.
id agree if you were leasing the car as they are not yours .
but if they have fitted the hardware to your car that you have bought then id have no qualms activating it .....
ive done it to various cars over the years - was that ok just because the car company didnt try to charge anyone for it so it wasnt stealing by that logic it was just upgrading ?
but if they have fitted the hardware to your car that you have bought then id have no qualms activating it
I am splitting hairs here - it's a moral argument - but I'd say that if they've fitted the part and you haven't paid for it, then it's not yours.
The concept of buying stuff isn't always simple. When you buy software, for example, you're not owning it you're licensing it and there are terms associated with its use. Same for things like DVDs - that's why you're not allowed to charge people to come and see a DVD that you've bought from Sainsbury's.
However all that stuff is set out in the agreement no-one ever reads. I do wonder what you have to sign when you buy a BMW.
I always thought that the issue with PHEVs is that due to the stupidly small electric range you have to balance the benefit vs worse economy as soon as the battery is used - you have a heavier car so on any longer journeys mpg will be worse than a conventional car.
So provided you only ever usually drive very short journeys perhaps it works. Otherwise you might as well get an efficient conventional car.
Well, given you can get 15 miles from electricity or more in many modern ones, that's not 'very short' really. Apparently the mean journey distance in the UK is 8.4 miles, so clearly there are lots of short trips and that should easily be covered by the battery.
As for the weight, I'm not sure it's all that significant. I think they are uneconomical when used badly i.e. drain the battery then have the petrol engine charge it whilst driving. If you understand what's going on and how to use the car it should be good, but of course a lot of people don't they just don't want to have to think about anything.
I’m still struggling with the fact someone thought it was a good idea to make a car that usedall it’s electric first rather than be a functional hybrid. I guess it must have been a stipulation to qualify for the bik loophole
I'm sure that's what most people use them for (tax avoidance) but when the average car journey in the UK is less than half of their battery range a fair few people could do the school run and commute on battery alone and keep the petrol for a long journey at the weekends.
you have a heavier car so on any longer journeys mpg will be worse than a conventional car.
I was a guinea pig for Hybrid vehicles at my work so I ran the car with no charge for a month and the fuel economy was just slightly down on a diesel equivalent. The cost difference in petrol and diesel more than made up the difference. The hybrid batteries work as a dumb hybrid in that they capture the braking energy etc. so the efficiency is pretty good. This was an Octavia vs. diesel Passat.
Maybe if depends on the design. I was certainly put off the Outlander PHEV on the basis of poor economy whenever the electric engine was done. Maybe not a great design of a bigger car / SUV.
Electric vans are still shocking. New Renault 50 grand or so and max range of 120 miles. I can’t get it around my head why it has the same size battery as a Zoe!
New Renault 50 grand or so and max range of 120 miles.
Which Renault is that?
Can't find it here:
https://www.renault.fr/vehicules-electriques-et-hybrides.html
I was certainly put off the Outlander PHEV on the basis of poor economy whenever the electric engine was done. Maybe not a great design of a bigger car / SUV.
Yeah it's well known that particular car is a poor execution.
Electric vans are still shocking. New Renault 50 grand or so and max range of 120 miles. I can’t get it around my head why it has the same size battery as a Zoe!
In the past, a van was a van. People bought them based on size and not their intended journey distance. Someone delivering parts from Penzance to Perth could buy the same van as someone moving stuff around the same town. But electric vans are targeted at the latter. There must be sufficient potential usage to make it worthwhile, and people are buying them at least in small numbers. I think this is fair - why shouldn't those short-trip vans be electric?
With the quick charger**, you can charge your vehicle to 80% in just 2 hours.
That's pretty poor though!
Ah, a huge Van:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-electric-van-thread/
That looks remarkable value for money compared with a T6
molgrips
Full MemberWith the quick charger**, you can charge your vehicle to 80% in just 2 hours.
That’s pretty poor though!
Which tell you it doesn't have the 50kW charge option of the Zoé which does 80% in under an hour (real world experience)
Yep so massive van, terrible range, same size battery as a Zoe, haven’t even bothered with 50kW charging capability which the Zoe offers (albeit not as standard).
I good few years ago I replaced a company diesel BMW 5 touring (which I loved) with an Outlander as the BIK tax on a replacement 5 was silly. Sort of knew it wasn't best suited to the bigger journeys and it was thirsty for anything over 60 miles. Going to morzine and back in it stung a bit! The battery did run out at about 23 but kept the average mpg reasonable ie 50mpg ish for journeys up to 60 miles. After that it was a big, heavy wallowy SUV powered by a 2ltr petrol having to work hard. So as above a compromised solution.
Amazon bought a load of Mercedes Sprinters with a 95 mile range operating from a depot in Newport. I guess they worked out that a vanload of deliveries could be emptied in that distance due to the density of their drops.
That's exactly what they are designed for.
Mostly vans like that are working vehicles, they'll spend all day doing 10mph round the city centre dropping boxes of stuff off. Or driving from depot, to site, and back again. Probably spend 50% of their working day waiting while they find a sack barrow/forklift or waiting for a signature "more than my jobs worth, mate".
Anyone who is expecting to use it for cross pennine deliveries, you need a diesel.
The 2 hour charge is a bit crap, but i guess they'll mostly charge between shifts/during loading/overnight.
this had completely passed me by
dunno if those rear seats come out, but it looks like a spiritual successor to all those oddball jap mpvs from the early 00s
Oh my god.
I saw my first Citroen Ami in the wild yesterday – I was quite excited! They are tiny!
dunno if those rear seats come out, but it looks like a spiritual successor to all those oddball jap mpvs from the early 00s
Getting more than a whiff of the SsangYong Rodius from the outside...
So... as someone completely unable to leave anything stock... Here's my leaf so far!
I've always wanted a red car with white rims - JDM style... now i've a Japanese car, in red, it felt rude not to!!!
The new rims are the same offset as OEM (+40) , but i've added 5mm spacers to clear the front caliper (spacers all round) so technically it's 35mm offset now...
Still drives the same.
But..looks waaay cooler!!!
DrP
EDIT - i'm struglging to find deeper center caps, as the drive shaft protrudes 16mm!
Also...
Speaking of hybrid cars..
DrP
Anyone seen that new Nissan drivetrain that's a BEV with no charging port and a petrol generator instead?
Yeah, it's quite interesting. Friend has a new Qashqai with the E-Power drivetrain, and Nissan have had a lot of success with it in the Note in Japan. You get a lot of the EV good stuff - strong torque, proper regen (with epedal that lets you one-pedal-drive down to a stop) albeit with an engine whirring away. While it does bring revs up with more demand, it's not like the Toyotas where they'll flare up on a bit of acceleration.
Probably the best non-plugin hybrid drivetrain out there. If it was a plugin with 30-odd miles of range it'd be even better.
Anyone seen that new Nissan drivetrain that’s a BEV with no charging port and a petrol generator instead?
So basically an Ampera?
Strange you wouldn't just add a port for all the difference it would make.
Hilariously terrible article managed to find its way to the Times recently - called something like ‘why I decided to pull the plug on my electric car’ or something like that.
Turns out the journalist bought himself a very expensive Jaguar electric car which turned out to be stupendously unreliable and constantly went wrong. So he just went straight from there to ‘electric cars are shite’.
Can’t believe they actually pay people to write this stuff!
Wasn't that an interview with some chap.from.broughty ferry ? If not there was a similar article in the courier 7-10 days ago.
Turns out the journalist bought himself a very expensive Jaguar electric car which turned out to be stupendously unreliable and constantly went wrong. So he just went straight from there to ‘electric cars are shite’.
You've missed a fair bit of the article out - he was peed off with the car never doing the advertised mileage on a charge (not only in the winter with testing now showing a range drop of up to 30% being found in some models at lower temps) and the lack of/waiting for charge points.
There was one breakdown too many and he threw in the towel.
Wasn’t that an interview with some <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">chap.from.broughty</span> ferry ?
Giles Corren