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Love our ID3. It felt more modern and ‘E’ than the Niro we tested. If you’re going to go modern you might as well go all in.
It has its quirks but I love driving it.
The software is OK? I like the car, but the first versions had some less than ideal things there. That and the lead time for delivery.
You can measure a battery to see what it's capacity is. I'd imagine they're less likely to die randomly than an ICE engine - they go wrong all the time, lots of nonsense with cam chains, oil, this has bust, oh the DPF is knackered blah blah blah
they go wrong all the time, lots of nonsense with cam chains, oil, this has bust, oh the DPF is knackered blah blah blah
I know. I've had my diesel for two years, warranty company spent £900 on changing the exhaust manifold and £400 on the timing chain tensioner; I spent £120 on engine mounts. Oh and about £700 on servicing so far. But that didn't include air filter and heated oil filter, that was £90 on its own. Also (haha) £200 on a 12V battery!
The ID3 was only £10 more than the MG4 and £10 less than the Niro. And worked pre-ordered 200 of them so the lead time shouldn't be too long.
I know I will get fewer miles than the MG4 and Niro but for my needs, I'm not too worried about it.
The car will report the battery health, and that’s what you’ll have to check when you buy the car.
There will even be industry standardisation on this, there are legal requirements about battery health status reporting that will get more onerous as time goes by
Kind of important tbh. If they can be forced to tell you when you buy it, or put it on an MOT certificate or something, that'd be great.
industry standardisation on this, there are legal requirements about battery health status reporting
worked well for emissions reporting!
worked well for emissions reporting!
When stuff like that happens they change how they do things.
they go wrong all the time, lots of nonsense with cam chains, oil, this has bust, oh the DPF is knackered blah blah blah
I know. I’ve had my diesel for two years, warranty company spent £900 on changing the exhaust manifold and £400 on the timing chain tensioner; I spent £120 on engine mounts. Oh and about £700 on servicing so far. But that didn’t include air filter and heated oil filter, that was £90 on its own. Also (haha) £200 on a 12V battery!
Old car doing old car things shocker.
How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years.
How does anyone know whether an engine or gearbox or DPF or anything else on a car is good for another 2 months or 5 years?
The dealers and warranty houses will use the data and reach a suitable price for a 2 year warranty, or you'll just take a flyer as you did when you bought your last Murcielago.
How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years.
TBH, part of the legislation is linked to having data about total battery life. So (eventually) you'll be able to see the new state, the current state and a curve (or series of curves) showing how far into it's life the battery actually is.
The dealer will make a call on the value for resale purposes, and you can make a call on what level of remaining battery life you will accept. 2 months, or 5 years.
worked well for emissions reporting!
TBH, that was based on legislation that was originally framed in the last century. And it wasn't well written in the first place. Lots of manufacturers have been taking various levels of the piss, completely within the rules as written. Except VW (and a few others over the years) who have stepped over the line.
How is someone going to have 'data' on total battery life as you're extrapolating into the future on variables you don't know. What you do know is the state of a battery at it's current condition as you can measure it, and you know where it started. The degradation with time isn't linear, and you'll have to make your own assessment of how long you'll think it usable starting at it's current point. It's not like they magically just stop working one day - unless a petrol or diesal.
FWIW Hyundai guarantee max 20% degradation after 5 years or 30% in 10
FWIW Hyundai guarantee max 20% degradation after 5 years or 30% in 10
Surely it's mileage/charging cycles that affects battery health not age?
<p>20% after 5 years sounds pretty terrible so no surprise they guarantee that! </p>
How is someone going to have ‘data’ on total battery life as you’re extrapolating into the future on variables you don’t know.
Errr, modelling. Damage factors, usage profiles. It's only a prediction based on normal/worst case/best case scenarios. And we know at what point the battery will stop being useful. And it doesn't need to be linear, can still model with a fair degree of accuracy.
Drive/charge like a idiot and you'll be able to see the damage you're doing over time.
No 20 or 30% is fine in most cases, and as they're guaranteeing they see it as being an exception rather than the rule as replacing millions of batteries is expensive. For the vast majority of people 80 % of a Hyundai , so real work 300km+ is just fine.
Are ICE engines guaranteed for 5 yuears with zero maintenance costs - I don't think so. Everything is a compromise, and most people don't tow horseboxes to Aberdeeen every 2nd weekend...
I am very aware of modelling and what you write. But you asked how much longer would a battery last, and would it be 'another 2 months or 5 years'. And the answer is still, who knows ? Modelling, state of charge, use r requirements all play a part so expecting a dealer to give you a hard answer is a little unlikely.
'Surely it’s mileage/charging cycles that affects battery health not age?' Yes, and how it's charged, how it's discharged,where you live (temperature) all play a part. But guarantees are normally measured/legislated in time
Old car doing old car things shocker
That's my point exactly. Or rather, old ICE car doing old ICE car things.
The degradation with time isn’t linear
Probably fairly predictable though, at least given the same owner doing the same things with it. If someone treats it badly for the first 3 years then it gets sold to someone who treats it better for 8 years, the rate of change could alter?
And the answer is still, who knows ?
No it's not.
It's not like an engine, you can't over rev it, you can't run it with out coolant, or low oil, you can't over discharge/charge it, or run it on shit fuel, you can't choose the wrong gear, or stall it, or leave it idling for hours. All the inputs and outputs are accounted for, as are (most of) the internal states.
Modelling, state of charge, user requirements all play a part so expecting a dealer to give you a hard answer is a little unlikely.
The dealer won't need to, the car will have a data field *somewhere* saying "this battery has 87% of it's planned life before replacement remaining." Or something like that.
It's then down to normal haggling as to if that's good enough, and how much you pay for it.
It’s not like an engine, you can’t over rev it, you can’t run it with out coolant, or low oil, you can’t over discharge/charge it, or run it on shit fuel, you can’t choose the wrong gear, or stall it, or leave it idling for hours. All the inputs and outputs are accounted for, as are (most of) the internal states.
You can however, fast charge it to 100% every time, compared to topping it up slowly overnight.
That said - I've also heard that adding a small amount of charge 'counts' as a charge/discharge cycle. I don't know if that's just for accounting purposes or actually a chemistry thing - or even if it's true as I think that was with reference to phones.
I wondered as a lot of EVs are on PCP deals if any of the final value would be affected by battery health. Hard to see tho how that could be blamed on the owner, unless there were specific 'rules' signed off around not fast charging it all the time (and even if that could be disputed depending on battery type, etc)
Tomorrow Octopus are going to install a smart meter so we can get to their cheaper overnight tariffs. Since I am 99.9% sure there is no 2g/3g signal where the meters are, I expect this to be a fruitless exercise.
Hopes and Prayers please 😉
You can however, fast charge it to 100% every time, compared to topping it up slowly overnight.
It's not uncontrolled though. Every kW into and out of the battery is monitored, so customers who do that will be accounted for in the calculation. (And depending on the car, they might even get warnings about the damage they're doing.)
I’ve also heard that adding a small amount of charge ‘counts’ as a charge/discharge cycle.
In most system they'll flag it as a "cycle start or finish" the actual charging process is monitored separately.
Tomorrow Octopus are going to install a smart meter so we can get to their cheaper overnight tariffs. Since I am 99.9% sure there is no 2g/3g signal where the meters are, I expect this to be a fruitless exercise.
Is there an option for a powerline network connection? Sounds like it would be a sensible feature if it could work.
Is there an option for a powerline network connection? Sounds like it would be a sensible feature if it could work.
I'm working away so won't be able to ask. We have really good wifi there and an external socket we could run a powerline off. I know when our neighbours tried to get a smart meter installed, the installers were not interested in trying anything except their cell connection.
I'd like a smart meter for the same reason. We've got one functional network in the village so hoping that would be enough.
Tomorrow Octopus are going to install a smart meter so we can get to their cheaper overnight tariffs. Since I am 99.9% sure there is no 2g/3g signal where the meters are, I expect this to be a fruitless exercise.
North or south of the country? Makes a difference as two competing companies (Arqiva and O2) delivered equally large bribes, which led to a split down the middle and two entirely different technologies.
Quick question - what's the home charge point of choice today? Tesla Model Y incoming!
I still like Ohme because it gives Octopus intelligent charging with any car, not just supported ones.
If you’re getting a Tesla then you’ll have access to Intelligent Octopus regardless of which charger you use.
I went for a Zappi on the basis that it integrates with solar PV panels, meaning I can home charge for free when it’s sunny. Can get about 40 free miles per full sunny day.
If you’re getting a Tesla then you’ll have access to Intelligent Octopus regardless of which charger you use.
Yes but the next car might not be Tesla.
Can get about 40 free miles per full sunny day.
Um....surely a lot more than that! Unless you're driving a tank perhaps.
Say a conservative 3 miles/kWh (most cars do better, I'm well over 4), that's about 13 kWh or 1kW average over the whole day.
My neighbour gets about 5kW from his standard solar installation through a large chunk of the day, and has invited me to plug in cos he's not getting paid at the moment.
My solar panels are max 3.2kw. So far - and of course it is only June - the maximum I have managed is to put about 11 kWh into the car in one day, which would be more like 50 miles. But on average it’s more like 8-9 hence my mention of 40 miles. Tesla is averaging about 4.5 miles per kWh at the moment. I don’t necessarily remember to plug it in immediately and our roof is at quite a steep angle so not the perfect position.
But it’s free so can’t be bad!
Also bear in mind the charger uses whatever is ‘spare’, so the house gets what it needs first and then whatever is left goes to the car. So eg if you turn the kettle on, the car stops charging.
It's not quite that stark as your house should have a 60 or 80 amp supply which is enough for the charger and the water heater and several other items.
house should have a 60 or 80 amp supply
The context was using the PV output that would have been exported. The Zappi charger can be set to only charge while there's sufficient export available.
Yeah but it's not free if you are drawing from the mains!
A 3.2kW array is a bit on the small size I think. I suppose once you take off some modest domestic usage it makes quite a difference to how much spare is left over. My neighbour also has a battery (possibly 8kWh, I'm not sure) which supplies the charger if the sun goes behind a cloud or domestic demand kicks in. In theory he could probably give me 3h at 7.4kW if his charger was working, but it's been sitting around outdoors for so long that the connector corroded!
Another ohme charger user here (ohme cable plugged into an untethered Rolec charger), I bought it for it's integration with octopus agile tariff. It has the ability to cherry pick the cheapest half hour segments. I think at the time (2019) it was the only charger that did it, there might be others now.
When I went to North Wales a couple of months ago we there were three charging locations on or near the route that I'd considered, each of which had one charger. I just checked now and two of those towns now have three chargers each, and there's another location in Dolgellau and Blaenau Ffestiniog with two chargers each. So quite quickly I've gone from having 3 possible chargers available on that route to ten. Awesome.
The one in Dolgellau is in the main car park by the bridge so there are coffee shops available and it's just opposite the park, so if you have kids they can have a run around, you can drink coffee whilst the car charges. Not a bad way to do your journeys!
Ohme E Pod here. Chose it because I wanted a longer cable than the tethered one came with and we also didn’t want a cable reel permanently at the front door. Got a 10m separate cable than coils up and fits nicely in the consumer unit cabinet at the front door.
Been working great so far. Lots of options for setting different schedules for smart charging from the app. Also set for approve charge every time. Not such a big deal where I am, but could see it being handy if you need on street charging.
Only downside is the cost of the sim is only covered for three years and chargeable after that. Not sure if that’s pretty standard practice or how much connection will be after that.
Zappi is set to use 100% solar on Eco+ mode - so yes it only charges the car if it is 100% free if I plug it in during the day on this mode.
Tomorrow Octopus are going to install a smart meter so we can get to their cheaper overnight tariffs. Since I am 99.9% sure there is no 2g/3g signal where the meters are, I expect this to be a fruitless exercise.
As expected, zero signal BUT Octopus have a solution via a Telefonica external antenna which boosts the signal. Should fix ours and the next door neighbours. Takes about a month to arrive, but happy with that as a solution... Octopus fella was excellent by all accounts.
What's an E-Golf like?
I found out the Hyundai is on a rolling contract, so we can hand it back when we want. It's £250/mo - so for that monthly spend we could borrow the money instead and buy something. Plenty of cars available now for £10-13k, including lots of e-Golfs and e-Ups.
Leased one for a couple of years, absolutely base spec.
The good:
- probably the most refined EV hatchback
- proper low driving position
- all very normal, intuitive controls - manual key, analogue dials, etc
- decent boot, room to fit a spacesaver spare under the floor and squeeze cables etc around it
- 75kg roof load rating
- excellent adaptive cruise, but not annoying lane assist. Probably the best combination of car tech
- preheat timing works well, including on battery away from home
The bad:
- range is pretty low, and no standard fit heat pump so motorway speeds is sub 100 miles if it's cold.
- slow CCS charging - 43kW is about the best you'll see.
- lack of any EV info - no battery % display (just the analogue fuel gauge), charging speed, etc
- terrible app
- it's *very* nannying at low state of charge, forces eco with 25 or so miles left, get to 10 miles left and it'll force the car into eco+ mode, no heating or AC and barely any throttle response.
Make sure you get a facelift (headlight have two kicked-up silver lines rather than one below) else it's an even smaller battery.
Overall I really liked it. As a commuter car / runabout doing less than 70 miles a day (50 if pre-facelift) it's brilliant and I'd have another for that. I did do some big long trips in it but the limited range and slow charging make that a bit tedious.
Yeah it would be a commuter car, currently would do about 26 miles a day. It would be used for local family duties - I think the back of a Golf would be fine for my 2 daughters max height 5'8. Some good prices on the e-Golfs currently circa 2014.
So in the space of June I've gone from a no EV household to an entirely EV household with 2 MGs. This wasn't entirely planned, actually in terms of timing it's been terrible.
I picked the second one up today and currently making my way to the south coast from the Lakes so at least by the return journey I'll be pretty familiar with it!
If anyone wants to ask any questions about yolo-ing into EV ownership on a badly timed and poorly researched whim just let me know...
you can drink coffee whilst the car charges.
I reckon a lot of EV drivers spend what they save on petrol or diesel on expensive coffee.
Get one of these
I think the back of a Golf would be fine for my 2 daughters
I've heard it's rather uncomfortable.
So in the space of June I’ve gone from a no EV household to an entirely EV household with 2 MGs. This wasn’t entirely planned, actually in terms of timing it’s been terrible.
That's a good effort. We ended up with one MG(4). For a mad minute I did consider swapping my Koraq for the MG estate! 1000 miles into our MG4 ownership, we're really happy with it. Both of us get it, hit the settings button and turn off lane assist tho!
I reckon a lot of EV drivers spend what they save on petrol or diesel on expensive coffee.
Heh. A lot of people I know complain about long car journeys. I enjoy them, because we stop for coffees, cakes, ice creams, food at every opportunity (and are fortunate to be able to afford this!) The car charging can happen whilst we stuff our faces.
Anyway, I'm going to return ours, because we can save £500 on lease whilst my wife isn't working over the summer. Then when she goes back we will maybe buy a "cheap" used one. Options are:
- e-Golf, decent car, short range, £10k
- Other first gen short range car e.g. Mercedes B-Class but these are rare, £13k last time I looked
- Cheap 1st gen car, Zoe or Leaf, £6-8k
- Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh £12k
- Same but 38kWh, £13-15k
- Hyundai Kona 62kWh, £16k min for a high mileage one but 330 mile range
- 2nd gen Leaf, £12k ish or a bit more for the longer battery
- Not bother with an EV at all, £4-5k
A real alternative is to get rid of both our cars and either commit both their expenditure to one car (that can tow) or just save money:
- Hyundai Ioniq 5 £27k
- PHEV Merc C-Class or Passat, £15-18k
- Regular boring old diesel, £10k or whatever.
I reckon a lot of EV drivers spend what they save on petrol or diesel on expensive coffee.
Good strategy- fill up on coffee at 1st charge stop then need the loo for the next!
I'm a bit concerned about buying a shorter range car - whilst their value has dropped nicely to make them an attractive purchase, I'm worried they'll continue to drop like a stone.
I would be very elated buying a used ev given how expensive replacement batteries are. How do you know what state the battery is in and what it’s likely remaining life span is
I’m a bit concerned about buying a shorter range car – whilst their value has dropped nicely to make them an attractive purchase, I’m worried they’ll continue to drop like a stone.
I wonder if the opposite will happen, many 'second cars' used for school runs/commuting which are not the first choice for taking on holiday, people will realise that actually, home charging is ample for their normal use. I'm 5000 miles and 9 months in with a company ev van and I've not public charged it since week 2. 50kw and 150 mile actual summer range and I'm basically topping it up each night rather than giving it a full charge. I hope the extended range cars are the exception rather than the norm, to avoid lugging around a heavier battery that was energy intensive to build.
I think prices are still inflated due to the covid supply issues.
I’ve half an eye in the market to replace an emergency buy “stop gap” Golf I bought 3 years ago but I’d have to be putting a fair chunk down for anything half decent.
I’m at best indifferent to the Golf, the fact it didn’t cost me anything to buy; it’s the second car mainly for my commute 1-2 days a week thanks to WFH and tax, insurance & servicing costs less than c 3 months of lease/loan repayments makes it a hard choice to replace.
My current use would suit an EV, when I have to commute it’s a 50 mile round trip so a 100 mile range would do but it doesn’t stack up paying a few £k just to save a few £.
I contract work, so Sod’s Law if I got such an EV, my next contract would be a longer drive!
My BMW i3S is coming up to the end of year 3.
It was originally on a 24 months lease through work, I extended it another 12 months because there was nothing available last year to replace it with for sensible money.
They want another £50 /month to extend it again so I think I’ll give it back, 300/month was good value, 350 is pushing it, especially now it’s not a new car anymore.
On our scheme the VW ID3 with the bigger (77?) battery is available sometime in September for about £315, which would be a much more practical car than the i3 - it’ll fit a bike in easily & go further so likely to use it for a few journeys that the diesel estate currently does.
The Cupra Born is also available for the same money, which I really like the look of, but 33wk lead time isn’t ideal 😞
Long term review of the i3S after 36k miles? It’s been awesome, done everything it is supposed to with no fuss & everything still works as it did on day 1. Not the best drive on the motorway is my only negative, it’s a bit twitchy & I’d rather take the much more relaxing 330D estate for any decent motorway miles.
How do you know what state the battery is in and what it’s likely remaining life span is
The car can report its battery health. Some early cars (Leaf gen 1) had air-cooling for the battery and that was a bit rubbish, so they'd get hot and that's what ruins the battery. Hyundai by all accounts are really good at battery management - I've read loads of reports of cars with 100% battery capacity after 100k miles or more. So I'm not worried about that particular brand.
There is good data on Teslas which have arguably worse management - they let you brim the battery to 100% unlike most cars, and the extra power also reduces battery life, and even then degradation is 10% ish after huge miles. There is loads of data showing how well the batteries last, and it's really only Gen1 Leafs that suffer badly.
My ID3 turns up next Tuesday. Must say between the lease company Novuna, the dealer Swans Way Group and VW are keeping me informed on everything including info about the app and all the vehicle info I need to get it up and running already.
Puts our previous lease company to shame where I did have a couple of issues with them.
Phill5556 I would have liked the 77kw battery but I couldn't justify the extra £100 a month for what I use my car for. Though it would have meant I would have gotten the new shape ID3 and not the old. But I can live with that for the money I'm saving.
Molgrips have have looked at what 4-5k or 10k gets you even in a lez complient diesel these days.
Plenty of cheap cars around but when you narrow it down to lez complient 10k appears to be the new 5k - full of either high mileage or old cars. No longer full of 3-5years old with average mileage. More like 5-8 years old with 100k on the clock.
I would have liked the 77kw battery but I couldn’t justify the extra £100 a month for what I use my car for.
For whatever reason it’s £50 cheaper through Tusker? 🤷🏻♂️🙂
As it's a company vehicle I don't get a choice of where to get it but I'm not grumbling for what I'm going to be paying for the 55KW ID3 as I'm getting a deal as its a pre ordered car.
Molgrips have have looked at what 4-5k or 10k gets you even in a lez complient diesel these days.
Yeah, I went looking when I considered changing the Merc but it just wasn't worth it. High mileage and/or old cars are still expensive, and given the commuter mileage savings from an EV I'd have to go right down to almost banger levels of car to save significant money.
I don't really need LEZ compliance though.
We are going the other way I think.
A 7 seater e rifter is coming in at about 400 a month/4 years with our berlingo and 5 down (not on forecourt finance - that's fixed at 13% and can do one)
Waiting on local garage to get the demo they are waiting on in - see how it is in the real world.
Our city is going to lez . Only in the centre doesn't really effect us but also what our city is good at doing is coralling you through bus /taxi zones and the like with no choice through bad diversions during the millions of continual disjointed road works.
On the plus side the lez doesn't effect the land Rover 😉
I approve trail_rat that looks great.
I just need to work out if we should have 1 car or 2, and if we go to 1 do we want to save cash or keep the expenditure the same. Or even split the difference.
Volkswagen, the UK's most popular car brand for the last two years, is cutting production of electric vehicles (EV) due to a decline in consumer demand.
In what has been dubbed an 'unprecedented move', the German car giant is set to scale back EV outputs at one of its biggest production facilities in Emden, northwest Germany, due to 'strong customer reluctance' to buy battery-powered models.
The move comes after company executives said demand for Volkswagen's fully electric cars is down 30 per cent compared with forecasts.
Manufacturing of petrol and diesel cars is said to be unaffected.
Now that diesel has dropped, people may be looking at 80p/kWh charging on the road and thinking it's not worth it. At that price, even my car is about equal to diesel in cost. But of course, don't pay that price.
Or perhaps the demand for new vehicles isn’t quite as strong because high interest rates/other financial challenges are meaning people are eking out what they have at the moment, rather than buying a new car.
There’s still a level of uncertainty in the market about second hand values if there are new entrants (Chinese manufacturers) bringing better value; Tesla reducing the prices of new cars etc etc. That uncertainty means people may be avoiding making that purchase for now. Equally, the demand for company vehicles has also dropped off given the impact of Covid/homeworking changing the way people work.
True. It's also possible that many early adopters are technophiles or middle-class greenwashers who want such a car; now they mostly all have one.
Probably shifting their battery volume to Audi to maximise profit.
Is anyone here on Octopus Agile or Octopus Tracker? prices are absolutely crazy this weekend, half hour prices into minus pricing pretty much all weekend and as low as -18.12ppkwh tomorrow at 2pm. I think I'll put the tumble dryer on all weekend and make some money.
ID3 ordered, 2 year all inclusive lease 77kWh Pro S. should be here end of August. I hope it’s the newest facelift version but it’s cheap enough that I’m not too worried if not.
Is anyone here on Octopus Agile or Octopus Tracker?
No but I’ve seen the Octopus FB group all getting a bit excited 😆
I’m still on Go but hardly ever charge at home anymore so I’ve just clicked to go on to Tracker.
I had a look at the Berlingo, but the 180 mile claim seems far too short. I had a chat with a few postal workers who drive them and they reckon they get less than 110 miles...I reckon that'll be under 100 miles in winter.
Despite that being the ideal car (it was same as the diesel one I have), I can't see past the really poor mileage it'll manage.
My current one is diesel and does just shy of 700 miles on a tank, so the electric distance is a real shocker. Saying that I was hoping for a claimed 250 miles that would be about 200...but is is half that.
Yeah my postie mentioned that but then postie work is all stop start the worst kind of use for economy.
This is why I'm wanting a demo.
100miles is piss poor and all arguments for you can charge as you go out the window when id need 3 charges to get to Edinburgh. But I need 120ish winter for it to be suitable for 95% of our use otherwise it's a problem
The Tesla model y the other week was nice. But not with my money far far to much tech in there to go wrong expensively.
There is good data on Teslas which have arguably worse management – they let you brim the battery to 100% unlike most cars,
I’ve been filling my Model 3 LR to 100% for two years of long-distance commuting (so Supercharging once a week) and the range has gone from 331 miles to 329.
What has tailed off is charge rates and I never see over 200kW, even when rocking up with an empty battery and pre-conditioning on. Leads me to think that the damage is caused by Supercharging to 100% as opposed to trickle-charging your way there.
My Model 3 is 3.5 years old and I just did a longish journey - 230 miles or so with a combination of motorway and country driving - was driving sensibly but not trying overly hard to be efficient. Had I continued at the same rate, total range would have been about 320 miles. This seems pretty great given the maximum range is supposed to be about 345 miles, and is waaay closer to claimed efficiency than most ICE cars, which achieve at best 70-80% of claimed mpg.
Plus - going over old ground but to those claiming there is too much to go wrong, this couldn’t be wronger - there is much less to go wrong.
As for relying on electricity to function being a bad thing - well so does almost every other bit of tech we use, including ICE cars, which in case people haven’t noticed, don’t work if the battery goes wrong as well.
Had I continued at the same rate, total range would have been about 320 miles. This seems pretty great given the maximum range is supposed to be about 345 miles, and is waaay closer to claimed efficiency than most ICE cars, which achieve at best 70-80% of claimed mpg.
Hang on a minute. We're all used to ICE behaviours, in which there are many factors that hugely affect combustion efficiency. Those factors don't apply to EV efficiency. There is an efficiency curve vs speed but it's not as variable, and in my experience your overall speed makes far more difference than how fast you accelerate. Tickling the throttle can be important in an ICE car (or not, depending) but is not really necessary in an EV, I don't think.
Don't get too excited over getting 90% of the WTLP test range. Some cars can meet or exceed it. Driving A roads mine can fairly easily. The official range divided by battery capacity comes to about 4.8m/kWh - I got 5.2 on a recent long A road trip and my wife's currently getting over 5.5 on her commute.
In an ICE the slowing and accelerating on A-roads makes the car less efficient than a motorway trip, but in my EV the lower overall speeds make A roads more efficient than motorways.
Yes I am well aware thanks, but a longish journey where I was mostly travelling at 60mph plus, and lots of it that wasn’t a motorway on hilly roads in Wales, makes this pretty good efficiency in my book. I have yet to meet anyone who has an EV car that would get all that close to claimed range on longer journeys that include lots of motorway driving, indeeed my Dad keeps sending angry from Manchester emails to Kia as he feels that his car should be getting closer to the claimed range, even though I am sure he understands how EVs work.
In fairness, I think EV manufacturers are still not dissimilar to ICE car makers in not being all that clear what they mean by projected range, and of course if you didn’t know better or do some research, it would be easy to assume that driving at a constant relatively high speed might be quite efficient as it is in an ICE car.
Average was about 5 miles/kWh, and I’m well aware that if you go slower you can easily get more than this. Agree A roads are good for range, and commuting in a town / city is always likely to exceed manufacturers quoted range. I do neither of these regularly, due to living in the middle of nowhere, 600-800 feet higher above sea level than any of my places of work. If we’re talking about a commute, I can travel 7.5 miles to one place of work on about 30 miles per kWh, or if I try really hard on a warm day, infinity miles per kWh! Sadly travelling home again is not quite so efficient, and the fun of using almost no energy travelling downhill is more than offset by getting home again.
About 80% of the trip I was talking about was on motorways.
The point is, not achieving claimed range seems to be a big criticism of EV cars, despite the fact that it’s much more difficult to achieve claimed efficiency in an ICE car, in fact I would say it is pretty much impossible. Official mpg figures of ICE cars are completely inaccurate, and always wildly optimistic, in addition to there being a larger variation between manufacturers. Our old Honda Civic got quite close to claimed mpg, but the 2 Minis I have had since have projected mpg figures that are pure fantasy.
I have yet to meet anyone who has an EV car that would get all that close to claimed range on longer journeys that include lots of motorway driving,
I've seen 4.8 on a motorway, more usually 4.6 though.
I can travel 7.5 miles to one place of work on about 30 miles per kWh, or if I try really hard on a warm day, infinity miles per kWh! Sadly travelling home again is not quite so efficient
The 5.5 she gets is the average of both directions.
The point is, not achieving claimed range seems to be a big criticism of EV cars, despite the fact that it’s much more difficult to achieve claimed efficiency in an ICE car, in fact I would say it is pretty much impossible.
That's true, although as you say it does depend on the car a lot. My Passat exceeded the extra-urban figure, my Prius got close as does my Merc. But yeah - there's more scope to cheat and take the piss on the old test. The WTLP one is better.
The point was that the energy gained going downhill is more than offset by going back uphill again, so with 200 metres down and then back up again each day you ain’t getting that close to claimed figures regardless of what speed you drive.
Leads me to think that the damage is caused by Supercharging to 100% as opposed to trickle-charging your way there.
It is, lots of smart charging being looked at now to try and charge as slow as possible (while minimising time at higher electricity rates, and still be charged enough when you want the car) to protect the battery. The strategy on some is to cap charge rates to minimise further damage, which is what you are seeing.
There is good data on Teslas which have arguably worse management – they let you brim the battery to 100%
No, they don't. It's a bit less than 100% of the maximum physical/chemical capacity of the battery, but more than most manufacturers use. It reports as 100% though.
waaay closer to claimed efficiency than most ICE cars, which achieve at best 70-80% of claimed mpg.
At best? That's probably poor driving. Lot of it about. I get 100-110% on most of my driving. Even short hops i can get better than the urban figures.
Best thing about moving from ICE to EV is that EV masks a lot of poor driving techniques by regenerating on deceleration, so all those pointless changes in speed have a *far* smaller impact on economy.
No it’s not. If you look at Honest Johns mpg the industry average is 82% of claimed. Mini, as I would expect from experience, are worse than this with an average of 77%. The Honda Civic I mentioned manages 92%. So there is a significant difference between manufacturers.
Personally I would say that driving an EV car encourages better driving, since you are much more aware of energy usage and it helps to change your attitude away from the idea most people have that they are always in a rush. There is a much more obvious benefit to driving efficiently, and a much clearer disadvantage to driving fast.