Forum menu
Cheers, I’ll phone Arnold Clark in Glasgow tmorn and see if they have a demo vehicle I can try out. The group are also dealers for pretty much all other makes so I’ll see what’s available around the same price.
Any rumblings of a caddy maxi sized panel van with decent range yet?
Can't help you with that but the guy who fitted our charger yesterday was driving a Vauxhall Vivaro E and was complaining he was only getting about 90 mile range compared with the claimed 200. And British Gas were thinking of putting ladders on the roof. He was also on a standard tariff so was paying £200 in electricity every month which he can claim back but still a lot of money.
anyone on here got experience of driving the Kona?.
I test drove one, ended up with the Ioniq EV, so the below is only relevant if the Kona is similar to the Ioniq which I am guessing it will be as it appeared the same. As a car the Kona was good, compact and roomy. Nothing to complain about in the driving experience at all. Comfy and not wallowy. The electronics are a bit of an irritation though. It bongs loudly and insistently at you as soon as it starts if you haven't already got your seatbelt on. Over the top of the startup jingle. Coupled with the beeps from the backup beepers to tell you you're still quite close to your garage door where you left it last night and sundry other beeps it's a bit of a cacophony. There's even one two-tone ba-bong, ba-bong sound that sometimes happens and is quite loud but I still don't know what it's actually for.
Whether or not this annoys you is down to your level of toleration for bongs, it didn't bother me much until my wife started complaining about it. The infotainment isn't particularly helpful or intuitive at times when trying to navigate either, and the UI for it is a bit rubbish. But other gadgets are great - the adaptive cruise is spot on, in my view for example. Oh, the only mild irritation in driving is that Eco mode limits power all the way through the throttle range until right at the end. So if you want to pull out of a junction on a slight hill, you can't do it quickly at all unless you mash the pedal to the floor. So you get either 60% power or 100% which is too much. However, it's fine in normal mode, and if I am in busy traffic I switch to normal. The modes are configurable though so you can set normal mode to have the eco air-conditioning setting and then you will still get the benefits of lower power consumption whilst being able to pull out of junctions quickly.
Give me a buzz with 350 mile range , option of removable rear seating and a payload of at least 750 kg and I’ll bite their arm off
Scared to even ask, but any rumours on price and date for a Kombi IDbuzz?
Cant blame them for prioritising the commercial version in the current climate though
I only watched the Late Brake Show video, which didn't suggest one would be prioritised over another - is that the case?
If so, works for me, as it'd be the panel van I'd want, but...
Keen to hear pricing on the 9th...
Revs - the 77kw battery has that WLPT of 200+ish range, so the 100kw battery option (alluded to, i gather?) should be 250-270ish?
I only watched the Late Brake Show video, which didn’t suggest one would be prioritised over another – is that the case?
I think its me thats wrong. That video above actually talked about the nice spec multivan type thing for the £50k.
The MEB platform can apparently do up to 111kWh packs which I'm guessing they can do on a cargo van, at the expense of a bit of payload. Would be 300+ miles easily.
If they stuck a caddy body on that, I'd order one today..!
Revs – the 77kw battery has that WLPT of 200+ish range, so the 100kw battery option (alluded to, i gather?) should be 250-270ish?
Sounds about right . I heard them say on a different YouTube channel that they would be doing longer wheelbase models. The cargo model as it is, is not long enough to carry an 8x4 sheet . I suppose they will struggle to get a decent payload / decent size battery / decent internal size and keep it under 3.5 ton
About 7mins into that vid above they park it next to a T7 swb. 20cm shorter, and 20cm longer than a caddy, so its split the difference. Just eyeballing it some of that comes from a reduced bonnet? although the sloping windscreen may be tricking me here.
clearly what we all want to know is will a 6ft adult be able to sleep in it?
There's a decent video on the Guardian today.
I suspect most of us are aware of the messages it's trying to portray, but it's well put together.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2022/feb/24/how-green-are-electric-cars-video
decent internal size and keep it under 3.5 ton
I’m sure I’ve read something about an exemption to allow Electric vans to be 4T?
Not much out there on the ID Buzz Cargo, but looks ideal for my usage. Reported £42k starting price with 77kw battery, 250ish mile WLPT, 170kw CCS
https://insideevs.com/news/572425/vw-id-buzz-cargo-arrives-haul-stuff-style/
Looks well smart. wonder how much it'll be to lease 🤔
My caddy is in the garage for the third time this year already (knackered pads/discs, wheel bearing, coolant system) and is doing my head in!
Also was reading about the new Toyota platform, the bz4x. It'll have a towbar option, still waiting to find out how much it can pull.
Think that’s an optimistic view on ID Buzz pricing. I’m thinking mid (77kwh) battery will be high 40s, early 50s.
I’d love one but not at that price. Great to see more boxy MPV options though.
On friday I got a new Nissan Leaf through my work's salary sacrifice leasing scheme. It's only 40kw but 99% of the driving I do that's absolutely fine. Coming from a 2005 diesel Golf all I can say is wow, modern cars are so comfortable and nice to drive! The E-pedal mode is super cool as well.
Only slight worry is fitting two bikes in the back with the seats down looks like it will be a challenge, but I'm sure I can figure it out with the wheels off. I know the leaf isn't the fanciest EV but I am really liking it.
First real challenge will be a trip to Dyfi in a few weeks time from the FOD. Will need to charge once on the way there and back but there are fast chargers on the way from what I can see on zap map, I'm quite excited!
I know the leaf isn’t the fanciest EV but I am really liking it.
It was my favourite of the cheaper ones, but Ioniq's range was better which made a difference to us.
It was my favourite of the cheaper ones, but Ioniq’s range was better which made a difference to us.
Yeah that's fair. I initially wanted to get an ID.4 but the leaf was literally the only one on the scheme without a 50 week wait, so that made the decision for me.
Think that’s an optimistic view on ID Buzz pricing. I’m thinking mid (77kwh) battery will be high 40s, early 50s.
I’d love one but not at that price. Great to see more boxy MPV options though.
£42k quoted for the ID Buzz Cargo - so panel van, not MPV base. Think the ID Buzz will be closer to 50k for sure. But, prices not confirmed.
So, how much is a 2 year lease on a £56k EV (given i'd want a cargo but not base model!) with 10k miles PA?
£46k, not 56k!
WLTP Vs. real world post:
I had a pretty appalling journey in my Tesla M3P week before last from an efficiency perspective.. WLTP for the performance is 329 miles. It was showing 295 miles on 100% charge when I left due to the unique way Tesla calculates range (near perfect conditions). Journey was 105 miles from Newcastle to Leeds and it was raining heavy on the way down maybe 40% of the journey and snowing heavily for maybe 15 minutes. When I arrived at the office in Leeds it had gone from 295 to 125..
Now I do have a roof rack (Yakima aero bars) and 2 Thule 598s up top but even capping my speed at 70 mph other than maybe 2-3 times the battery was draining at a rate of knots. Pulled into Scotch Corner superchargers on the way home with about 20 miles in the battery in order to get home.
Pretty bad that a car advertised as having 329 miles range can't manage a 210 mile round trip (even with the rack and weather).
I'm driving thick end of 500 miles to Cornwall in June so the rack/carriers will be coming off for sure!!
There’s a video on the CarWow YouTube channel about the real life differences that roof racks, bike on roof, towing etc makes to an EV. Your numbers seem about right from the testing they did. Aerodynamic changes make a huge difference to EV range. They also tested the car (Enyaq) will all electronics off vs on, again a marked difference. I’m guessing all electronics off Will be the ‘perfect’ range conditions manufacturers quote.
I’ll have to give that a watch, thanks @stingmered.
It’s interesting how acutely aware you become of just how much energy it takes to move around a big metal box when it’s powered by electricity and not hydrocarbons.
I dread to think how much additional fuel I squandered when I was tooling about in my M135i with racks/carriers for 5 years. Shocking really when you take a step back..
As much as EV driving requires more planning and time I still don’t think I’ll ever go back to ICE unless it’s some very special sports car doing 1k a year as a 2nd car.
Why would you keep the rack/carriers on when you’re not using them anyway?
Lack of storage perhaps?
Also, all of your old ICE cars were advertised to do Xmpg, but in reality did Ympg which was 20-30% less. This is little different. Remove the racks, drop the speed by 10% and I’d bet you’re a lot closer to that predicted 295mile range.
Why would you keep the rack/carriers on when you’re not using them anyway?
Guess it depends how much you use them cause putting them on and off 2-3 times a week would be a misrable experiance.
I've just given up thinking about an Electric Car. I ordered an Audi Q4 in September last year with an expected delivery date in March. It then almost immediately got put back to April. Then again to May. Just after Christmas I was told not to expect delivery until August. That then stretched to January 2023. Then I found out last week that the majority of looms for VAG cars are manufactured in Ukraine.
My dealer basically told me they hadn't a clue regarding delivery but they weren't expecting any EV cars other than those currently in transit until next year, date unknown.
Though the price I was going to pay was fixed, the trade in value for my current car wasn't. As the delay was increasing, then the swap cost was also increasing.
I cancelled the order last week, and they're happy about returning my deposit.
What really boils my p*** is the dealer and VAG are still taking orders on cars they know they can't fulfil. Some poor punters are paying ing deposits and have expectations on something they'll probably never see.
I suspect other manufacturers are in the same boat. A combination of semi conductor shortage the Ukraine crisis and Brexit are going to make European built EV's almost impossible to get hold of.
@trailrat has it. The model 3 has no fixed mounting points* and aligning the racks per the manufacturer instructions to where they need to clamp is a king size pain in the arse. Plus the 598s don’t play particularly nice with t track and rubber seal thing.
*actually it does but they’re underneath the glass roof and the Tesla bars are £500 and lots of stories of smashed glass so I opted for the Yakima’s.
Roof rack used to slaughter the economy on my diesel car so must be 10 times worse on an EV.
Unfortunately it's weather dependent. Wet road means that you need to provide the energy to throw kilograms of water out of the tyres. Headwind is the same aerodynamically as driving faster, and so a 10mph headwind when you're doing 70mph is going to increase the consumption by ~40%.
Cold makes the air denser, and if you have a pre heat pump model that drains even more battery.
Not a huge fan of the Superchargers on the M1, they're a little too far off the motorway once you're past Birmingham to be convenient. Ferrybridge opening soon though.
Pretty bad that a car advertised as having 329 miles range can’t manage a 210 mile round trip
Well, as above racks make a huge difference as above, but Tesla are a bit more economical with truth than their cars are with electricity. Not only do they give a bit of a cheeky range figure but they also then tell you not to charge it to 100% all the time anyway. Other manufacturers cap the charge for you and take the hit in the marketing figures.
Some tests were done by What Car:
The Porsche Taycan does the best and in another US test it got an amazing 30% greater range than quoted! My Ioniq EV does a bit more than quoted around town in summer, a bit less on the motorway summer or winter.
Wet road means that you need to provide the energy to throw kilograms of water out of the tyres.
I'll qualify this - a properly wet road with standing water does indeed cost you a noticeable chunk of range or fuel; if it's just damp it's not too bad.
I did a 420 mile round trip today in my iX3
I covered around 230 miles and when I stopped to charge I had 42 miles left. WTLP is 281~285 so I was happy with that. That was cruise set at 65mph, aircon off. Noticed that aircon reduced the range by around 20 miles and the sat nav if turned on reduced it by around 10 miles
Amazing how many cars were going slower than me…
My ex left the roof bars (standard square ones) and 3 bike carriers (598) on her car for over 3 years, then took them off last summer. Instant addition of 150km range per tank. About 10%.
She only carries bikes on the roof about once a week (when she picks the kids up from mine). The rest of the time it's one or two bikes that usually go in the boot (for security) unless they are filthy. So maybe 200 journeys, 150 or more of which could have been done with a simple folding tow bar carrier.
Having seen the effect on the official WLTP testing with and without roof bars (Aero ones) and knowing how unrealistic these test cycles are, i use quick release aero bars and if i don't need them, they're stood in the corner of the garage!
I live in unconjested small town France, rarely use autoroutes and drive smoothly within speed limits in eco mode. I easily get what Renault claim even in Winter and in Summer I'm often around the 395km WLTP if the % battery display is accuarte - which it isn't, there is hidden capacity at the top and bottom. That suggests that in Summer my local driving is more economical than the WLTP cycle.
With my petrol car I averaged 5.8l/100km over the first few years of ownership which is what the official figures say.
Roof rack used to slaughter the economy on my diesel car so must be 10 times worse on an EV.
No the physics doesn't change just because its electric so it slaughters it by the same %. Problem is EVs have half the range of a diesel so 75% of 250 miles is 187 but 75% of 500 miles is 375 miles. Just means you have to "fill up" more often
The physics don’t change but the means by which an electric car generates power and torque do have significantly greater drawbacks at higher speed due to the lack of a gearbox to transfer power. Available torque in an EV is almost halved between 40 and 70mph, whilst available power also starts to drop between 60-70. If you add roof racks to the car and significantly change it’s CD (and the point of application) that halving point and power drop point come sooner in the curve. As such, you’re trying to use more power in an even less efficient part of the power/torque curves. ICE cars smooth out a lot of the changes in drivetrain inefficiency at varying speeds using a gearbox.
Tesla in particular have gone to significant lengths to get the best Cd figure they can. Adding roof racks ruins the secondary attachment line for the airflow and introduces turbulent air over almost 60% of the horizontal bodywork compared to 10-20% if left alone.
3 days of living with my ID4 and I'm liking it so far. Relatively easy to adapt to, although not having the gears in the middle does lead to the occasional looking list mid manoeuvre.
Mrs hoppy does seem to think she's disarming a bomb rather than driving a car for some reason but I'm sure she'll get used to it.
As such, you’re trying to use more power in an even less efficient part of the power/torque curves
Why do you think an EV less efficient at higher power?
Because they start to drop torque at round about 3000 rpm or so depending on motor and gearbox setup. Flat to that point. You gear for that , and the speed limit, or the speed you think most people will be driving.
Meanwhile , away from the keyboard I'm going climbing today in an old style Nissan Leaf, same as I have done for the last few years. No problems, works for me
Because they start to drop torque at round about 3000 rpm or so depending on motor and gearbox setup.
But why does that mean higher consumption?
Interesting article here: https://x-engineer.org/ev-design-electric-motor/#:~:text=Motor%20efficiency%20is%20up%20to,0%20%E2%80%93%20100%20kph%20acceleration%20time.
Looks like there is a fairly wide range of maximum efficiency and it's not a lot compared to aero losses of the car:
Fascinating how it is less efficient at super low speeds though. I wonder why.
Available torque in an EV is almost halved between 40 and 70mph, whilst available power also starts to drop between 60-70.
Was just about to post the same graph molgrips. None of the above affects the efficiency of the e-motor. Also EV speed is not generally power limited see below the power graph of an Hyundai Kona on a rolling road. Power is essentially flat until the limiter cuts in. I reckon it would easily do its top speed even with a roof box. The car would probably go way over the limited 103 mph with 200 bhp on tap but its probably limited to protect the battery
Ive said this before but EV's give you accurate real time efficiency numbers so any changes are immediately obvious. its a not as easy in the ICE so by the time you realise you only managed 300 miles from the last tank (rather then 400) you've kinda forgot about the things that have spanked your economy.
its probably limited to protect the battery
Yeah or to reduce the weight of cabling required.