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Bottom line is we still have a long way to go before we can decarbonise the grid.
but the benefit is that when we do, everyones existing electric cars become decarbonated.
but the benefit is that when we do
2050 is the current target.
Re the climate change impacts; if you know the long term average CO2 equivalent value per KWh (delivered)of the UK grid, can you calculate the approx CO2 emissions per mile from the miles/KWh figure for any given car?
ICE cars in the region of 30-40% IIRC
Assuming that figure is true UK gas turbine stations ran at 48.3% in 2020 so not a massive step change.
But coal and gas combined are (now, in daylight) only making up 29.4% of our electricity mix. Wind and solar are doing 39.5%.
So comparing ICE cars to gas power stations isn't really a fair comparison. Gas is only one part of the mix.
if you know the long term average CO2 equivalent value per KWh (delivered)of the UK grid, can you calculate the approx CO2 emissions per mile from the miles/KWh figure for any given car?
Yes, it's been calculated and discussed loads, a few times on this very thread I think.
So comparing ICE cars to gas power stations isn’t really a fair comparison. Gas is only one part of the mix.
Yes it is. Nearly everything that consumes electricity has no other alternative, but anyone who buys an EV also could have bought an ICE so as it's an incremental demand on the grid the use should be attributed to the most polluting part of generation.
I'm using an extreme example but it is an important factor that people should be aware of and I'm not sure they are.
...and people are. I, for example, have a green tariff which states that profits from my tariff go to developing further renewable energy generators. As a result, I pay more for my power.
Also - typical car thermal efficiency is 25-35% - it's only very large, low revviing diesel engines and high technology petrol engines which generate above 40%. An F1 Engine peaks at 51%, but is usually at around 48% average and that's using both hybrid energy energy and kinetic energy recovery, neither of which is present in your typical car...though the kinetic part is included in some hybrids and petrol cars.
A combined cycle gas turbine electric plant will be closer to 60% at peak efficiency at 55-57% average around the world. Coal will peak at 47-48%.
No matter which way you look at it, cradle to gravel, in-use emissions, CO2 repayment, etc, EVs for personal cars are better.
2050 is the current target.
fair point, its not a finger snap instant change to get to zero. But each incrimental improvement is also an improvement to all EVs.
If that 5% coal drops to 4% coal, thats a 20% reduction in coal emmisions "from" EVs. Thats the same as everyone in an ICE going from 40mpg to 50mpg, or all commuters cutting to a 4 day week. Which would be considered huge.
As at 11:35am we were running 5% coal on the grid so all EVs currently plugged in are running on coal.
Or to put it another way, 95% not from coal.
Thing is, if we don't transition to EVs then we will never have decarbonised personal transport. If we all drove EVs now, then changes to the electricity generation mix would reduce ALL our carbon emissions without us having to do anything else.
A combined cycle gas turbine electric plant will be closer to 60% at peak efficiency at 55-57% average around the world.
48.3% in the UK so why aren't we investing more money in bringing the efficiency of our gas powered generation into line with the rest of the world?
You also have some gas generators that don't have the secondary heat exchange phase, plus there are specially built 'diesel farms' which are used when extra capacity is required.
Thing is, if we don’t transition to EVs then we will never have decarbonised personal transport.
100% agree but I'm questioning whether we should be more aggressive on the 2050 date. For example, the biomass generator at Drax generates 11% of the UK's 'renewable' power and gets £832m a year from the government in subsidies but still pumped out 13-16 million tonnes of CO2 emissions in 2019 - equivalent to the emissions from 6-7 million cars and is the largest CO2 producer in the UK.
I did two big trips Yorkshire to Fort Augustus last year without issue. I didn't bother with the Tesla superchargers in England because Tebay and Gretna had previously always been rammed. So just stuck to the other charger providers that have a good rep (instavolt, osprey, ionity). It was all good tbh. The ionity charger at Gretna had my car battery management system going crazy to cope with the kw it was pumping, something I'd never experienced before ( before anyone starts bleatings about prices, I get free charging on all the networks I've mentioned). What I'm concerned about is if if will get worse to make long journeys in future with infrastructure not keeping up with adoption
What I’m concerned about is if if will get worse to make long journeys in future with infrastructure not keeping up with adoption
Yeah I'm concerned too. There is a lot of interest and planning for charger infrastructure but there are likely to be problems that might delay rollout. Like for example the state of the grid in rural areas.
I do wonder though how many families have an EV as their only car, or their main car?
Our i3 is our main car. The other car is my 18y old 3 series estate which is most definitely into the Trigger’s broom stage. 6500mi/y in the i3, 1500mi/y in the 3 series. I now pay more per year in VED tax than I do in fuel for the 3 series.
My soul is my only car.
Our i3 is our main car. The other car is my 18y old 3 series estate
But do you use the 3 series for the trips that don't work in the i3?
I get free charging on all the networks I’ve mentioned
Free free ? Or someone else paying ?
Our main family car is my Tesla M3P and my wife has an ID3. We’ve done a few longish trips in the Tesla but can count on two hands the amount of times I’ve used the public charging infrastructure. We drove to Glasgow and back from Newcastle last year and charged at the super chargers just outside the city - a bank of 12 150kW chargers and not a single other car in sight 🙂. I’m glad we topped up there as we stopped at Gretna further down the road for food and as above it was rammed!
Real test will be this summer when we have a week in Cornwall booked so thick end of 1000 miles round trip. Even with the supercharger network I still get a little anxious and also worry more generally that adoption will outstrip infrastructure improvements.
I get free charging on all the networks I’ve mentioned
Free free ? Or someone else paying ?
free at point of use, but no doubt I'm paying for it in the deal. It's BP Pulse, instavolt, Shell Recharge (incl ionity, osprey and geniepoint) and Tesla superchargers when I had a Tesla. As a result I use the public infrastructure 100% of the time (I do have a home charger for emergencies, installed when they were cheap, but never use it). Luckily there's 2 very reliable Osprey 50kw a short walk from work and lots of Geniepoint 50kw in the local area.
The supercharger rank at Keele on Friday looked like a Model 3 owners club rally.
Interesting goings-on - continuing developments in battery tech
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/battery-electric-car-lithium-sulfur-b2015456.html
Wow. If they can commercialise that, it will be a game changer. Less reliance on rare earth elements, 3 times the capacity and able to withstand more charge cycles before degradation compared to lithium ion. Seriously impressive stuff!
Interesting goings-on – continuing developments in battery tech
Li-ion batteries have only been around for 37 years vs 150 years for the ICE so we're only at the start of their development. Hopefully plenty more improvements coming.
What I’m concerned about is if if will get worse to make long journeys in future with infrastructure not keeping up with adoption
Lots of rapid charging hubs are now being installed by the likes of Instavolt, Orpey, MFG and Gridserve but even so I reckon the next year or two are going to be difficult especially at holiday times. Best to plan your journeys well and have a plan B, C and maybe even D for charging.
I do wonder though how many families have an EV as their only car, or their main car?
We sold our old diesel Merc last July so our e-Niro is our only car.
There are loads of developments like that on the way. See also solid state batteries.
Lots of rapid charging hubs are now being installed by the likes of Instavolt, Orpey, MFG and Gridserve
Happy to see this but I'm worried they are installing them where they can, not where they are needed.
What's needed for widespread adoption is on-street charging in towns, particulaly residential areas. Doesn't need to be high speed, 7kw/11kw should suffice for an overnight charge every few days, or weekly/less for many people. Unfortunately, you just know that some people will insist on topping up every night, after getting back at 4pm an preventing anyone else from using them! I'm not sure what can be done to prevent that....
Long journeys yes, stick them at service stations etc but its teh day-to-day charging that most will struggle with when they don;t have a driveway.
Oh, and does anyone yet make an EV than can comfortably seat 5? Including child seats? Isuppose the eBerlingo, but that has a range of about 150miles I think, so not ideal...
Happy to see this but I’m worried they are installing them where they can, not where they are needed.
The Gridserve ones appear to be being built in useful locations- as long as you don't live in Scotland or Wales 🙂
The Gridserve ones appear to be being built in useful locations- as long as you don’t live in Scotland or Wales
Actually not sure. None on the M6, only two in the entire Midlands, one south of the M4. Looks a bit thin tbh. They need to be on the main transport corridors and going by that map they aren't except for the M4.
None on the M6
Perhaps I've misunderstood. I just looked on the Gridserve website and counted 13 on the M6.
I'm talking about the new 'charging hub' things with loads of high speed chargers. The existing ones labelled Gridserve are the old Ecotricity ones and are a bit shit.
But the point is that the fancy hubs seem to be going in (for now) where they can put them, not necessarily where they are needed strategically.
Actually not sure. None on the M6, only two in the entire Midlands, one south of the M4. Looks a bit thin tbh. They need to be on the main transport corridors and going by that map they aren’t except for the M4.
Bloody hell give them a chance they've only started. Gridserve have a big rapid hub on the M1 at Moto Rugby MSA which has been open for more than a year now. Other networks are expanding also. Osprey, Instavolt and MFG are all installing charging hubs. Instavolt have just doubled the size of their hub on the M40 at Banbury and Osprey have opened a hub near Instavolt at Banbury. MFG have a hubs open at Crow Orchard on the M6 and Filton on the M5.
I’m talking about the new ‘charging hub’ things with loads of high speed chargers. The existing ones labelled Gridserve are the old Ecotricity ones and are a bit shit.
Not so. Since they took over Electric Highway Gridserve have replaced 80% of the old Electric Highway chargers at MSAs with new rapids and the have only Welcome Break and EG MSA's to upgrade. There are very few old Ecotricity units left now.
They still seem to be in place in the M4 or they were 2 weeks ago anyway.
Evening gents, anyone got a Merc EQC ?
There are very few old Ecotricity units left now.
Are they also increasing numbers at each place?
Evening gents, anyone got a Merc EQC ?
No, but.. I have read that the EQA and EQC are Merc's first efforts at EVs, they are batteries stuffed into an ICE body and consequently not that good. The EQS and E are the purpose built EVs and apparently rather good. Although at that price they ought to be. EQE supposed to be released.. today, I think?
Any rumblings of a caddy maxi sized panel van with decent range yet?
Are they also increasing numbers at each place?
Only at the MSAs which will become charging hubs. Current list is Swansea (Moto), Heston West (Moto), Severn View (Moto), Wetherby (Moto), Burton in Kendall (Moto), Exeter (Moto), Woolley Edge North (Moto), Woolley Edge South (Moto), Thurrock (Moto), Leigh Delamere Westbound (Moto), Reading West (Moto).
Evening gents, anyone got a Merc EQC ?
No but Bjorn Nyland has tested one in winter in Norway. He's a bit long winded but he seemed pretty pleased with it despite its lack of interior space vs size of the car.
That EQE looks interesting. If you can get near predicted range i would imagine that will sell really well. I wonder how much it will be once you start speccing it up with the funky dash etc though.
free at point of use, but no doubt I’m paying for it in the deal. It’s BP Pulse, instavolt, Shell Recharge (incl ionity, osprey and geniepoint) and Tesla superchargers when I had a Tesla. As a result I use the public infrastructure 100% of the time (I do have a home charger for emergencies, installed when they were cheap, but never use it). Luckily there’s 2 very reliable Osprey 50kw a short walk from work and lots of Geniepoint 50kw in the local area.
Someone rents their car through Onto.
Good service to be fair, we've got an ID3 as a temp till at some point in 2025 our car is built.
I wonder how much it will be once you start speccing it up with the funky dash etc though.
On the EQS the fancy dash is a SIX GRAND option. That's a car designed to get as much money as possible from people with too much though, so it might be different on the E.
In other news, I got an email from Hyundai saying my car needed a 1yr service. Not exactly sure why, but at least it's only £72. They also offered to fit new windscreen wiper blades for £150. Lol, cheeky ****ers.
Had a look round an Ioniq 5 today. Looks great and was pretty decent inside.
Internet is awash with ID Buzz first drives today. Looks nice, proper launch in a couple of weeks. No price info yet but I'm guessing too much for me.
My VW Tiguan 2.0d DSG is due to go back in may (motability vehicle) and I’m considering getting a Hyundai Kona electric performance/ultimate as my replacement vehicle. It’s £1100 upfront payment and £260/month for 3 years, seems to have a very decent range and the level of equipment is a match for my current Tiguan so I’ve been browsing online reviews and can’t really find a bad word said against it apart from limited leg room which is not an issue as I very rarely carry anyone in the rear, anyone on here got experience of driving the Kona?.
No price info yet
Johnny Smith reckons circa £50k but I can't remember if that's the MPV or the cargo van.
Looks great apart from the under bumper grill - would love one but not at that price
Gonna watch that Late Brake tomorrow morning, been waiting for buzz details. Would love a cargo one if range is OK. Would have to be a pcp type arrangement and prob out of my range, but we can dream!
Would prefer a caddy size van, but...
anyone on here got experience of driving the Kona
I had one for 4 months. Good EV. Well priced- or at least it used to be. Efficiency is outstanding and performance is fantastic for what is a small family crossover. Downsides are very small boot, restricted space in the rear, cheap interior, jiggly ride and press button forward/reverse selector that drove me mad as I had to look down every time to use it.
I now have a Kia e-Niro which is built on the same platform but is better in every way. Better ride, better interior, more interior room, more boot space and it has a rotary gear selector which just falls to hand.