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Well, this thing happened to me but I'm still happy to do it again. The problem was with me taking the route that I knew had hardly any chargers. If I'd gone the other way there'd have been zero issues as, like with an ICE car I'd not have pushed it that far. I'd have stopped more frequently to make sure I had loads of charge at any point.
The only real issue is time. I wasn't in a rush, because it's May and there's plenty of light. A nominal 8 hours of actual driving took about 10.5hrs including all faffing, however at least 45 mins of that was spent eating which I'd have done anyway, and there were piss stops. So the EV side probably cost me 1h45 over an ICE, of which about 20 mins was probably farting about on the phone with Instavolt.
Last year's trip to Scotland was different though. I wanted to get to the event to register on Friday afternoon before 5.30pm, which needed an early start as it was. If I'd had to charge it would not been possible. But, I could easily have registered the morning of the event anyway it was just my preference to register the previous day. So even then, if I'd gone EV it would not have been a deal breaker. The only real issue was that there ended up being three of us and that needed a bike rack. That would have mullered the range.
But then again, my car is a cheap short range one, it's only got 183 miles. With a 300 mile range there'd have been zero issue on Saturday. I only drove 330 miles all day, so I'd have only needed one stop anywhere on the trip which would have been a cinch. Just don't leave it til you're on empty to top up.
but has anyone converted an ICE car to electric ? It’s something I’ve been eyeing up for a while now. I know it’s not the most cost effective option, would be good to hear from anyone else that has looked into ti / or actually done it!
Have a look at the fully charged youtube channel... there's a company that offer a kit for an OLD mini - £40k!!!
I much perfer the 'in your garage' approach of guys like "ageing wheels" etc...
I would love to buy a second leaf for about £12k and get the motor, batteries, and electronics from that, and put it into something else...
I can't understand why the bare EV kits are so expensive!
Anyway... i'm a few months into my EV ownership and covered about 2500 miles... It's a 40kWh Leaf..
It suits me perfectly for my 13 ish mile commute, and for round town trips...
I've a charger installed at work (nhaven't got one at home) so just top up at work a few times a week.
Did a longer trip to the new forest on Friday eve... arrived there with only 14% on the battery. Just dangled a (decent) extension cable through the window of the Air BnB and recharged the car overnight... fully charged by 7am the next day. Perfect!
You DO have to get used to the shorter range compared to an ICE (my octavia will cover 550 miles on a tank), but... topping up when you can is great.
DrP
PS - I've now fitted the coilovers so it's 30mm lower all round, upgraded the speakers, and fitted a small Focal 4.320 amp behind the dash!!!
But then again, my car is a cheap short range one, it’s only got 183 miles. With a 300 mile range there’d have been zero issue
I think this is a huge thing for many unaware buyers, obviously not stw regulars 🙂
I posted the other week about my neighbour who took delivery of her new Peugeot and was/is horrified that she needs to charge it every other day, doing about 50 - 60 miles a day. The car has a range of about 150 miles, she had no idea that some do that and some do double. I don't think she is that different from many who buy EV's - they go on spec, price, colour as many people are conditioned by ICE use since they started driving where range just isn't really a thing, and mpg not often top of the list when making a purchase choice
I have a friend that is doing an ICE to EV conversion. He's using a small vehicle (Smart Roadster), but it was cheaper for him to buy another one as a donor vehicle than to get things swapped onto his daily driver. He also said that people like doing conversions on the older models because it makes the job of installation so much easier. You don't have to worry about CANBUS or ECU so much and can just install things.
He was not mentioning names, but did mention he approached a couple of well known conversion companies, but they were not interested and seemed more keen on instagram likes for the classic conversions than doing more modern cars. I asked one place about converting a VW T3, and they basically told me it would be too expensive.
I posted the other week about my neighbour who took delivery of her new Peugeot and was/is horrified that she needs to charge it every other day, doing about 50 – 60 miles a day. The car has a range of about 150 miles, she had no idea that some do that and some do double.
The snag is that the recommended usable range of the battery is not 0 - 100% to preserve long term battery health, on our MG4 it's 20-80%. So car has 280miles claimed range but in practice it's ~150miles between charges for day to day use.
We chose the long range model basically so it would do 3 days between charges for daily commuting use.
The snag is that the recommended usable range of the battery is not 0 – 100% to preserve long term battery health, on our MG4 it’s 20-80%.
fair point, however given that the majority of EVs will be on 3 or 4 year PCP or lease deals I can't imagine many will take that approach - I certainly won't, on a 4 year fully inclusive lease through work salary sacrifice scheme. If the battery fails after I give it back, not my problem.
My battery gets cha4ged to 100% whenever I need it. The car can handle battery management and 100% isn’t 100% of actual battery capacity anyway.
Will you be using it in 15 years time? No, dont worry about it.
I rarely charge away from home, but if I do then I have a few cards/Apps to cover my needs.
1. ChargemyHyundai app/RFID card. Covers most networks.
2. Shell Recharge app/RFID card. Likewise, covers most networks.
3. Ionity App. - doesn’t accept debit cards.
4. Tesla App
5. Instavolt App. They are very reliable, and often at Macdonalds.
I’ve given up on BP Pulse - they are useless & unreliable.
I’m investigating for my Alps trip if I need anything else….
The snag is that the recommended usable range of the battery is not 0 – 100% to preserve long term battery health, on our MG4 it’s 20-80%
Is that what the manual actually says?
It's intrinsic to most batteries - they don't like being fully charged or discharged, but decent manufacturers (like Hyundai for one AFAIK, but there are others) don't actually let you do this. When it says 100% it's not actually at 100%. This means that the battery will last longer but your advertised range is shorter. I think it's rather unscrupulous of manufacturers like Tesla to crow about their range but if you use it regularly you are shortening the life of the battery.
The MG4 normal lists a nominal capacity of 51kWh and a usable amount of 50.8, which seems rather close. The long range one lists 64 and 61.7 so in that one they are holding some back. I wonder why it's not the same the different versions?
fair point, however given that the majority of EVs will be on 3 or 4 year PCP or lease deals I can’t imagine many will take that approach – I certainly won’t, on a 4 year fully inclusive lease through work salary sacrifice scheme. If the battery fails after I give it back, not my problem.
The app I use with the Audi nags me if I have charge set to 100% Audi know how I am using and charging the car.
I wouldn't be surprised to see terms/constraints in some PCP / lease deals to prevent users continually charging and discharging beyond what is considered reasonable.
All electric cars are the same as far as recommending avoiding full battery charging on a daily basis, but again this is a non issue - day to day you don’t need 100% charge. Tesla recommend up to 90% for daily charging and then full charging for long journeys so this works perfectly fine unless you plan on driving 300 miles every day.
Hyundai recommend 80% for daily charging so lower than the Tesla, not sure what you’re on about saying they are any different?? All electric cars have a usable capacity a few kWh less than the full battery capacity.
I had read calculations that Hyundai's actual battery capacity was greater than was published and people had to deduce what it really was. I had also read that that was not the case with Tesla. Of course, I've only got what I read to go on and being me I cannot remember the details of how it was calculated or where I read it.
There's clearly something up with the calculations on screen. When I had 10% remaining it gave me 24 miles range, but it clearly won't do 240 miles on a charge. Then when it dropped to 6% the remaining range number disappeared when which was kind of disconcerting. Immediately before that it had been about 16 miles.
day to day you don’t need 100% charge. Tesla recommend up to 90% for daily charging and then full charging for long journeys so this works perfectly fine unless you plan on driving 300 miles every day.
but surely if you are home charging, esp at night if on an EV tariff, the charger switches off when the battery is 100% full and you are sound asleep ? Or does the tech let you set it to stop charging at 90% full ?
Yes just set the Tesla to maximum allowed charge it won’t let it go above that. Although the Zoe doesn’t have that feature so if necessary just have to adjust how many hours of charge to put in if it would go over 90% or whatever level you decide.
but surely if you are home charging, esp at night if on an EV tariff, the charger switches off when the battery is 100% full and you are sound asleep ? Or does the tech let you set it to stop charging at 90% full ?
You can set my car to stop at any given percentage, and give different numbers for both AC and DC which usually corresponds to at home or away from home. My charger can also stop at a given charge according to a schedule - we currently have it at 80% during the week but it goes up to 100% at weekends just in case we want to do a spontaneous trip.
If the battery fails after I give it back, not my problem.
There are industry moves to add "battery health" as one of the criteria for hand back, such as mileage is today.
When it says 100% it’s not actually at 100%. This means that the battery will last longer but your advertised range is shorter.
It's not that much difference, if you can connect to the car in the right place you can work out what the actual 0-100% (battery) is compared to the 0-100% shown in the DIM. Most manufacturers it's only ~3% at the top end and up to about 5% at the bottom end (the bottom end number is pretty much meaningless though, because you can keep on discharging WAY beyond whatever 0% the manufacturer has decided on.)
I think it’s rather unscrupulous of manufacturers like Tesla to crow about their range but if you use it regularly you are shortening the life of the battery.
I'm saying nothing.
The MG4 normal lists a nominal capacity of 51kWh and a usable amount of 50.8, which seems rather close. The long range one lists 64 and 61.7 so in that one they are holding some back. I wonder why it’s not the same the different versions?
This is because they use different chemistry batteries from memory - I think the normal uses an LFP, so is better at handling full discharge cycles (ohh err). It also has no cobalt.
Someone might need to fact check me. Have a watch of the Bjorn video of him driving his mum around Thailand(?) in one. He talks about the battery differences.
I’ve only ever had one issue that caused a slight issue. The chargers at York by the old wall encroach into the parking bay. It meant I couldn’t use it as the read of the car stuck too far out. Tesla now allow use of their chargers to none Tesla owners.
I get max 185 in good conditions the worst I’ve had is 125. The regen though means I’ve travelled over 200 miles before.
Audi have a built in buffer, the battery never reaches actual zero or 100%.
The charge ports on the e-tron are in a stupid place imho; too far from the end of the car. One of the few things I don’t like about it. It’s only really been an issue with the Tesla chargers I’ve used a couple of times though.
Yeah, I think it’s the massive bonnet. I’ve never used a Tesla charger but if they have short cables then it may be an issue.
What pigyn alludes to is correct. It depends on the type of battery you have as to whether it likes to be charged to 100% all the time or 80%. The newer LFP lithium iron phosphate batteries will take much more abuse and like to be charged to 100%. Battery tech is moving at such a pace that I wouldn't read as gospel what some people above are saying about it's got to be charged to this or that. What you buy in 6-8-12-24 months time might be completely different dependent on the battery therein. Certainly Chinese cars appear to be much more LFP batteries now, even the Chinese production Tesla M3 SR+ or whatever its now called (and probably Y) come with a LFP battery. USA production ones are still lithium-ion I think. Chinese battery giant CATL reportedly plans to begin mass-producing sodium-ion batteries in 2023, altho not clear yet whether the chemistry is suitable for cars. Also lithium-air, solid state blah blah loads of possibilities in the pipeline, the race is now on.
The MG4 normal lists a nominal capacity of 51kWh and a usable amount of 50.8, which seems rather close. The long range one lists 64 and 61.7 so in that one they are holding some back. I wonder why it’s not the same the different versions?
The 80/20 thing is on the in-car display of our long range MG4, manual doesn't have it. It's called battery health range or some such thing. Ours is a work lease car so could just ignore it but I've set the charge schedule up to do 80 every morning mon - fri so no bother to follow and has plenty range for me.
Ian - our charger phone app lets you set different charge schedules on your phone. I have a daily commute one (80% overnight using cheap rate only) and a weekend one (100% overnight using cheap rate only). It's as simple as just toggling the one you want. It's been a bit of a mindset shift from an ICE but no bother at all. I'm not a great lover of tech and found it easy to get it all working.
New car has arrived at dealers three weeks earlier than expected. Wall box goes in on the 13th....... of June.
Going to be an interesting month. Phoned installers who could offer me a cancellation spot on Friday, but my colleague is off on holiday and no way can I blag the day off. Next few weeks are mainly work commutes, so 30 mile round trip 4 days a week, but off to Fort William in a few weekends time and that's 260 mile round trip before adding the running around once I'm there. Staying in Roy Bridge where there's a 50kw charger across the road from my hotel, but hoped to have a better handle on the EV life before. After that I've only short time before holiday then instal after that. Equal parts excited and nervous about EV life.
@tjagain and others have often wondered why EVs aren't being made super small and efficient as city runabouts. Well, they are:
https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/car-reviews-and-road-tests/carver-review/
I must say this looks pretty good as effectively an enclosed motorbike. By my calculations it looks like costing about 0.9p/mile which equates to about 900mpg in cost terms, at current prices.
My - that looks safe…
(not)
Is it any worse than a moped or motorbike? Serious question, I can't decide if it is or not.
apparently tesla aren't making model s or x in right-hand-drive any more. guess big cars in the uk is a small market?
apparently tesla aren’t making model s or x in right-hand-drive any more. guess big cars in the uk is a small market?
Starting to get a bit of competition in that market now. Lotus Eletre, BMW I7 , Mercedes EQS etc.
Tesla starting to look a little dated against those.
I think Tesla are looking a bit dated overall. I ordered an i4 a few months back and it was between that and a Model 3. The BMW was IMO better in just about every way.
I think Teslas look ok, well the ones I'm looking at. I don't really look at Model S's, but I'm looking at cars and the 3 is good, and very competitive on price.
Re. batteries, the decay isn't linear with age. My leaf is 8 years old (!) and the rather crude battery is still on 11 out of 12bars so likely 80, 85% , and I charge to 100% most nights a year at home
Tesla probably the best overall car if you want / have to just get up the road.
The charging network is also second to none IMO. It has to be their main ISP.
But if you want something interesting then you are going to go for another brand every time
Tesla probably the best overall car if you want / have to just get up the road.
really, still ? The range numbers on many competitors are up there too now, i4, Polestar etc, in cars made by long established car manufacturers, with decent pedigrees on build quality and handling.
Yeah, I was including the charging network as part of that description though.
Teslas have to be the worst looking cars on the road, literally all the other manufacturers have better looking vehicles. I just purchased new car stayed with petrol though after the queues I had seen this winter just not prepared to wait around life is way too short.
Tesla's charger network isn't looking as good as it was. There are so many on the road and people seem drawn to them so they fill up and create queues, according to my workmates Tesla drivers queue for Tesla chargers even when there are others unused.
apparently tesla aren’t making model s or x in right-hand-drive any more. guess big cars in the uk is a small market?
they haven’t made RHD S or X for a couple of years now if I remember correctly. Having said that, there was a big pause in production for LHD ones. I’d imagine that they’re still wrangling LHD back orders to some degree.
The U.K. is probably a small market all round. There are a few places that still drive on the RHS other than the U.K.
I had a Model X on order but when it became apparent there’d be no new ones in 2022 I got a model Y. Not expecting a RHD Model X before 2024.
The range numbers on many competitors are up there too now, i4, Polestar etc, in cars made by long established car manufacturers, with decent pedigrees on build quality and handling.
Polestar - long established?
It is great that there are now many manufacturers properly moving into EVs rather than using fleet-based green-washing marketing blather.
Are Polestar not basically Volvo ?
Yes Polestar are Volvo although confusingly Volvo also make electric cars under their own name. Explains the boxy boring design though.
Yes, I had a go in one, it felt very Volvo. The seats were excellent 😁
Odd my parents showed up in a polestar 2 tonight.
Very crashy drive over potholes and bumps.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small.
Technically, Polestar is owned by Geely ( as are Volvo )
I'd like an iD7 estate, please thanks.
What a ridiculous argument blaming Tesla for whatever you think is wrong about electric cars. It may be fast and have a long range but my Model 3 is still more efficient in miles per kWh than your ID3, which manages a maximum range of 280 miles on a battery bigger than the model 3 Long Range. It’s also slightly heavier than the Tesla.
Can someone translate KWh measures of efficiency into an mpg or ppm ICE equivalent?
Taking an ICE Mondeo sized car in non extreme weather that would cost about 15p/mile. (55mpg / £8 gallon).
How far does a KWH get me in a "Mondeo" under the same conditions?
There is a lot of its 50p/KWH on this charger but only 20p/KWH on that one over there but I literally have no idea how that equates. I know we will all get there as it becomes more prevalent.
That (along with charge speed, range and towing capacity) would be key to me understanding the economics given the higher up front cost. If I was regularly on a public charger that was filling me up because of range limitations but it was effectively 30ppm then that would be a serious barrier to a shorter range vehicle.
Anyone who can enlighten a dinosaur burner?
kWh/km.
Which is actually a stupid measurement as nobody measures ICs in kWh/km or B.T.U. An actual meaningful measurement would be Ah/km since that's what battery capacity (aka volume) is actually measured in and would be analogous to litres or gallons.
The energy content of a battery is usually expressed indirectly by its capacity in ampere-hours; to convert ampere-hour (Ah) to watt-hours (Wh), the ampere-hour value must be multiplied by the voltage of the power source. This value is approximate, since the battery voltage is not constant during its discharge, and because higher discharge rates reduce the total amount of energy that the battery can provide
Can someone translate KWh measures of efficiency into an mpg or ppm ICE equivalent?
It's... Complicated. 🤣
The king and short of it, is that currently running an EV isn't really any cheaper than running a dino-burner, unless you have a silly cheap overnight leccy tarrif and/or solar.
Ev's are less efficient at motorway speeds, and rapid charging on the public network is the most expensive form of charging - so if you're doing lots of longer journeys then that's going to be more expensive with the current fuel and electric prices. If you do lots of short trips from home and can charge over night on a cheap tariff then it'll be much cheaper than a diesel car.
If you do a mix, it'll probably work out about the same.
The king and short of it, is that currently running an EV isn’t really any cheaper than running a dino-burner, unless you have a silly cheap overnight leccy tarrif and/or solar.
If you have a smart meter and home charger that silly cheap electricity is available to anyone who can use the phone or internet.
Even without a smart meter, if you hade eco7 you would be around half the cost of fossil fuel. Worst case you would on standard tariff which is still cheaper per mile than petrol.
All the public chargers where I live are free and chargers at work at 20p/kWh so basically most people would be better off per mile.
If you have no home charger or do loads of long distance driving then maybe the costs are similar but fir everyone else the per mile running cist is very favourable.
It’s… Complicated
Not really. In the UK everyone except Tesla drivers measures economy in miles per kWh. 3 is poor, 4.5 is very good, most cars are between that but the good ones aren't always the ones you expect.
The king and short of it, is that currently running an EV isn’t really any cheaper than running a dino-burner, unless you have a silly cheap overnight leccy tarrif
Well, for long motorway trips that may be true but most of our trips aren't (unless you are a business traveller). Anyone with a driveway can get a cheap overnight rate, but it does put up the cost of your daytime rate so if you tumble dry every towel in the house once a day and only drive 2 miles to work it's not worth it. For us, with a modest commute, the saving over diesel pays for our entire electricity bill. Commuting and trips under 170 miles or so (which is almost all of it) cost us 1.5p a mile.
I seem to be the exception to the rule, but I find my iX3 is more efficient on a long run , including motorway use. If I sit a 67 and avoid sharp braking and overtake whilst maintaining that speed , then I get more m/kWh than I do whilst driving “round town”.
That does seem odd. Doesn't the i3 do something odd like not regenerate when using the brake pedal, and only if you specifically enable it when you lift off?
It's also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
Personally I've found running an EV costing a lot less money than any other car. Electricity prices are down again, and you have much lower maintenance costs, any emissions tolls etc are much cheaper. It's a non argument in my experience
'Odd my parents showed up in a polestar 2 tonight.
Very crashy drive over potholes and bumps.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small.'
And not enough space for the chips on your shoulders 🙂
And not enough space for the chips on your shoulders 🙂
Actually **** it edit - the chips were in the passenger's side floor as we drove back from the chippy.
That's the only justification I'm giving you for my opinion on the polestar 2 being a big car with a small interior for tall people.
It’s also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
Not necessarily. I’ve just swapped to Ovo and the day rate is cheaper than I’ve been on (although standing charge is slightly higher) and if you use a smart charger via their app it’s 10p per unit to charge the battery at any time of the day. Only catch is that you need to specify a time it needs charged by and it does it when demand is low. If you need an immediate charge it’s normal rate but for coming home at night and charging by next morning it’ll be perfect. Not tested any of this yet since car arrived three weeks early and wallbox date is still a month away. At least local council chargers are only 28p/unit. Last charge that added 40miles cost £3.09.
We tested an MG4 and then bought one. Jumped on their 0% finance deal, a great PX for the Fabia my better half has had for seven years and a discount off list price. This does mean we need to prioritise getting a 7kw charger which - like everything in our house - isn't going to be that simple.
Should get it sorted in the next month. Until then we'll work round it with super slow charging off a normal plug and some charging away from home. I was attempting to be unimpressed with electric cars but that MG is a really well sorted thing. Apart from the very aggressive lane assist and distinctly average rear view, we couldn't find anything to dislike.
Coming next Friday.
It’s also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
Yes. but you may be able to offset that if you can schedule your washing/dishwasher overnight since they are some of the biggest consumers; and also put a timer on your immersion heater for hot water. Our off-peak electricity is about the same price as our gas but the immersion heater is more efficient.
I saved about £20 per month on an EV tariff, before I actually had an electric car - simply by using washing machine, dishwasher and water heating during the cheap hours. Yes I know you’re apparently not supposed to due to the increased risk of burning to death in your beds. I always thought that was what your smoke and fire alarms are there to prevent but there we go.
🤷🏻♂️ I got my first EV because the idea of commuting 200 miles twice a week seemed a better idea with no tailpipe emissions. That it came with fearsome acceleration and free charging was a nice bonus. At no time did I think that a <4s 0-60 mph car would be a money saver over a Prius or Audi A6 or Skoda blah blah. But getting that Model S convinced me that I needed to avoid using an ICE from that point on.
Even my SO was sufficiently enamoured of using the Model S that they test drove several EVs before replacing a MB with a Model 3 (after trying the available models at the time of Nissan Leaf, Jaguar I-pace, KIA eNiro, and Hyundai something or other).
I really hope that ICE cars stop production soon and EVs become dominant.
It’s also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
They are at the moment, as TOU tariffs have to average out at the EPG cap or the supplier doesn't get the discount. So if the off peak rate is cheaper, the peak rate has to be more expensive.
Before everything went mad though Octopus Go was cheap off peak but the peak rate was exactly the same as their normal fixed rate; others were only slightly more expensive.
That said, you don't have to shift very much into the peak rate to make it worth it. We don't do many miles in our EV but that and running the dishwasher overnight means our average is well below what we'd pay on the standard fixed rate.
Several years ago the per mile fuel cost of our Zoe was a tenth of the petrol Fabia we also had. Petrol has gone up a fair bit since then, electricity has just less than doubled, so it's still way cheaper.
It’s… Complicated
Not really. In the UK everyone except Tesla drivers measures economy in miles per kWh.
Miles per effort (work done).
It kinda makes sense but then you still have battery chemistry to battle with so at the lower end of a battery charge you will use more ampere hours for the same effort since the volts will have dropped. So, all other variables being equal, do the same journey at full charge and at just about dead and you will get different kWh/km figures. So you're not necessarily getting an accurate representation (I have no idea what voltage drop off looks like before anyone starts, I'm just sounding this out). So yes, it is complicated, in the same way as an ICE where as you use fuel the efficiency increases.
Odd my parents showed up in a polestar 2 tonight.
Very crashy drive over potholes and bumps.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small
It's hard to argue against a PS2 feeling cramped (although my old car was an Octavia Estate so it's not a fair direct comparison). It's great for me, 99% of the time I'm the only one in mine and the boot is actually a decent size (with the hatchback opening making it great for getting a bike in with the rear seats down). I do still often catch my legs on the steering wheel getting in though as it has a weirdly high floor (sloping down to the pedals), plenty of room once you're in, just a bit odd getting in.
I don't really get the whole 'crashy' drive thing though (but it's mentioned in a lot of reviews so not just an opinion on here). I have the Performance pack so firmer suspension and 20" wheels and the ride still seems fine to me. Yes a big pothole is more jarring than in my Octavia with it's squidgy suspension and 15s but just day to day driving I never feel the PS2 is harsh let alone 'crashy'. I'd probably get something different if my daily commute included the Arenberg Trench but on standard poorly maintained UK roads it's fine.
standard poorly maintained UK roads
Depends where you live, round here (North Ayrshire) the roads are terrible and in Glasgow you can lose small children in the potholes. Down south is luxury in comparison.
Point being, there is no standard.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small
Exactly my impression after test driving one.
do the same journey at full charge and at just about dead and you will get different kWh/km figures
You don't see a noticeable change as a driver - at least I havn't in an ETron*. As the voltage drops from high to low then more current is needed to achieve the same power. This is less efficient as the higher currents will drive more thermal losses but the difference will be pretty small. I expect that this effect is corrected for via calibration, so the end result to the customer still looks linear.
*Except for when using the top couple of % of the battery. When absolutely full there is no regen, so efficiency drops. Comes back again once below 97/98% ish so not a real world issue.
Anyone interested in industry developments, I think most OEMS will have V2G capability in 3 years time to meet this mandate https://driivz.com/blog/california-bill-bidirectional-charging/#:~:text=California%2C%20the%20EV%20adoption%20and,state%20after%20January%201%2C%202027.
Might kill the home solar and battery storage market though!
Might kill the home solar and battery storage market though!
Why do you think that? What good is your battery if someone has it parked 60 miles away?
What good is your battery if someone has it parked 60 miles away?
Presumably if it's plugged in 60 miles away and someone's draining your power then you'll still get money back for it.
I seem to be the exception to the rule, but I find my iX3 is more efficient on a long run , including motorway use. If I sit a 67 and avoid sharp braking and overtake whilst maintaining that speed , then I get more m/kWh than I do whilst driving “round town”.
Yeah round town is terrible for EV I find long runs way better too.
Finally, after an almost 9 month wait my i4 has arrived... Yet to be sullied by having bikes piled in the back etc, but that will come.
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Nice parking ..... gotta watch them alloys!
Yeah round town is terrible for EV I find long runs way better too.
Isn't that the same for ALL vehicles?
It's acceleration that uses power, once it's up to speed then it doesn't take that much to keep it there (drag dependant)
Presumably if it’s plugged in 60 miles away and someone’s draining your power then you’ll still get money back for it.
Sounds awesome while your partner /kids are at home continuing to use grid power. While your office is draining your car readying you for your trip home.
I think it will have no effect on solar - as cars don't generate power and it'll possibly reduce the level of batteries folk fit. It probably makes 5kwh batteries make more sense in a "when the cars out" type of thing.
For most folk the cars not there when batteries are most useful.
While your office is draining your car readying you for your trip home.
Oh you've found the subtle flaw that no-one else has, well done!
For most folk the cars not there when batteries are most useful.
They could be charged in the afternoon or evening with grid solar and discharge overnight to your home. The California grid certainly seems to think it'd be useful.
sharkbait
Free Member
Nice parking ….. gotta watch them alloys!
Not my parking - it’s where the delivery driver parked it after reversing off the trailer it came on.
round town is terrible for EV I find long runs way better too.
I’ve found the EV great around town, with a caveat. Short journeys hurt efficiency - the proportion of energy used to warm / cool the car is high vs energy used to drive. Around town tends to be short journeys so that might explain it.
Isn’t that the same for ALL vehicles?
No, not necessarily. To get a vehicle of a given weight up to a given speed you always need a certain amount of energy, and that's what's stored in your fuel tank or battery. So in the simplest model, it doesn't matter how fast you accelerate. The difference between ICE and EV is the efficiency of the process. When accelerating you are using much more power than cruising of course, and an ICE is much less efficient doing this, which is why accelerating modestly is more efficient. In an EV whilst you do waste more energy as heat in the cables when you accelerate faster, it's not very much.
Of course driving at constant speeds doesn't have this problem but on motorways you are then losing much more energy to air resistance. So a car with greater efficiency loss (e.g. an ICE) whilst accelerating could do better on motorways than one that doesn't lose much whilst accelerating. And of course you have regen braking on EVs which helps recover the energy you've put in. EV motors are less efficient at slow speed, but nowhere near as much as ICEs - and the overhead of running the car and HVAC is fixed so that becomes a larger portion of the total draw when you are driving slowly. Driving VERY slowly i.e. queueing traffic for ages is less efficient in an EV, for sure, but then so it is in an ICE.
Driving around Cardiff we don't queue much, there's a mix of traffic lights and suburban 40mph driving, with some lanes thrown in, but we don't usually drive at times when it requires waiting at lights for more than one cycle. In such driving the EV gets between 125% and 150% of the motorway efficiency, whereas in the ICE it's probably between 65% and 80% depending in both cases how much cruising there has been. Countryside A roads are also around 120% of motorway efficiency in the EV, but in the ICE it's probably 90%-100%.
@whatgoesup damn nice car.
While your office is draining your car readying you for your trip home.
Oh you’ve found the subtle flaw that no-one else has, well done!
For most folk the cars not there when batteries are most useful.
They could be charged in the afternoon or evening with grid solar and discharge overnight to your home. The California grid certainly seems to think it’d be useful.
so how does any of that noise affect domestic microgeneration ? - which was what SK point was getting at. its hardly a subtle flaw its the main corner stone any argument for what is being suggested - you handily gloss over the part where i mention that the car doesn't create electricity either.....
lets not forget all the other blockers to connecting the car up at the office/house every day - just not seeing it being an alternative to Micro generation nor house batteries - more a supplement to your system for those with forward thinking employers and a good electric deal..... and with driveways at home.
I already know of a number of folks whos offices have subcontracted out their charging point infrastructure(so the employers not paying for the fitting) and the employees are now getting screwed on extortionate charging rates - the next Diesel gate im sure.
maybe by 2030 our government will have all those issues sorted out......the charging point issue certainly needs regulated across the board.
more a supplement to your system for those with forward thinking employers and a good electric deal
True, but this is being pushed by legislatures which I think is going to force employers to be more forward thinking. Which is the right way to do things IMO.
the charging point issue certainly needs regulated across the board.
Yes I think this is classic Tory laziness expecting public sector to come up with a solution, where it should be done nationally.
Well a week after the test drive, we've PX'd the Fabia and this has taken its place. Just had a look at the route for the proper charger and its not as bad as expected. We'll sort that after we're back from hols. Short term the 'granny' charger goes at around 4% per hour so we'll just use our current night storage tariff to keep us in the green.
No Type 2 cable with the car sadly, just bought one to take advantage of some local 7kw chargers. Rural england tho, coverage isn't great.
Still it's a lovely thing and I'm very much looking forward to driving it (if my wife lets me!)
I'm in the process of purchasing a 2nd hand Corsa e. Had a test drive of a 2.5yr old sub 10000 mile car and I was impressed.
Very quiet, handled well, accelerated quick enough for me.
I'm not sure whether to buy the extended warranty/gap insurance/service plan. My gut feeling is to chance it and save my money and put the money towards the increase in my insurance premium and home charging stuff. What could go wrong?!
Had the email at work to order a new car. Looking at the VW ID3 and a Kia eNiro. I know what I'm getting with the eNiro as I have a Soul which has been completely flawless since I've had it and love the range you get. But I'm partly thinking of going for something different. I have a good choice to choose from but work currently have deals on the two above and also the MG4
Anyone got one of the ID3's 58Kw and what the real range is like?