Forum menu
Did we already do the Dacia spring in this thread?
It's everything that the Ami and twizzy should have been .
Short range cheap low power small city car(but better in all respects than an Ami/twizzy)
They are left hookers only at the moment but Dacia considering bringing them to the UK.
I have registered an interest. If it comes in anywhere near what the left hookers are going for(15k) then it would be a worthy vehicle.
I need a company vehicle (car allowance with stipulations) and even with the company paying a chunk - The money for a Zoe / leaf is insanity given it won't cover me for family or activity use but something tiny like the Dacia (I have even considered a twizzy) would be ideal. (At leaf/Zoe money I'm firmly in the 1litre petrol buzz Box camp)
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/dacia-spring-ev-looking-very-positive-uk-sale
Poor safety but if it's cheap it'll sell well - market is desperate for cheap basic EVs that can cover much of what people need. The 12k euro prices bandied about are after subsidies though, I'd expect quite a bit more over here.
SMMT December (and thus full year 2021) figures are out today. 190,727 battery EVs sold, or 11.6% market share, and more than the previous 5 years combined. Just in December, more than a quarter of all cars sold were BEV.
Tesla Model 3 the second-best selling model in 2021, and for the first place Corsa (which is as mainstream as it gets) more than 13% sold were electric. Third place MINI more than 20% were electric.
Things are starting to change quite fast now.
Missus is due a new car, her wee 63 plate 500 has done her proud, but f me the new electric one is expensive. I need to look at how to fund, PCP, HP, loan, salary sacrifice.... I'm a bit old school in terms of car ownership, I really need to educate myself in the other options.
Having lurked a while on this thread, last week I picked up a Dec 16 Zoe to replace the wife’s old Fiesta. So far it’s been very good, although we still have a few EV quirks to get used to. Enjoying how nice and quiet it is to drive.
7kW charge point due to be installed in just over a week.
Poor safety but if it’s cheap it’ll sell well – market is desperate for cheap basic EVs that can cover much of what people need. The 12k euro prices bandied about are after subsidies though, I’d expect quite a bit more over here.
And yet gets more stars than a Zoe...... Personally I'm quite happy not have to a car stuffed with electronic driver aids that costs the same as a cheap flat in brechin.
As I said last time the safety aspect was brought up- safer than both my bike and my current daily(land rover 90)
5th gear did an article recently that compared the cost of ownership of a new Petrol Corsa and a new Electric Corsa over 3 years and 22k miles. Despite the £4.5k higher purchase price for the EV, the cost of ownership was £2k less for the EV over the 3 year period. This assumed that both were purchased using PCP and that the EV was charged using a standard tariff at 14p/kWh. On a cheaper charge tariff, the difference would have been closer to £3k in favour of the EV.
Despite the £4.5k higher purchase price for the EV
but thats not the difference is it ? going by the RRP on vauxhalls own website.... unless for journalistic license you chose the top spec petrol at 23grand and the lowest spec Electric at 27k .....
its more like a 10k difference like for like.
And are you gonna get 14p/kWh?
octopus agile showed that today i could get C~ 14 p/kWh between 02:30 and 4 am . how far does that get me?
but thats not the difference is it ? going by the RRP on vauxhalls own website…. unless for journalistic license you chose the top spec petrol at 23grand and the lowest spec Electric at 27k …..
its more like a 10k difference like for like.
It's really not. Corsa SRI petrol with the same level of kit as the Corsa E-SRI is £22.400 vs £27.100. The current dealer deposit contribution (on the petrol) is the only skew and that's only £1500 and is recent as is the electricity rate. At the time of running, the report was accurate. Also - you now get a better PCP deal on the electric, so it skews it back in favour of the EV.
but thats not the difference is it ?
The only way to find out is to walk into a dealers and negotiate, haggle if you prefer. That will depend on a lot of factors. The shortage of cars at present doesn't work in your favour with either ICE or electric vehicles. We got 1800e off the Zoé and a pretty colour thrown in two years ago but I'd expect to pay full price if I walked in today. I'd expect to wait months for a lightly loaded Clio equivalent because with production capacity limited by engine management chips they are making the ones with the most margin.
how far does that get me?
Well 4 miles/kWh is a good figure, ours is between 4 and 5.5 depending. So at 4.5 you are looking at nearly 50 miles of charge during the off-peak times. Assuming your battery's not nearly full already.
@trail_rat - I bumped into this the other day (by clicking on the 'custom vehicle' manufacturer in autotrader). I can't imagine its very pleasant, but you don't seem to care about that. Its certainly cheap
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112010137905
but thats not the difference is it ? going by the RRP on vauxhalls own website…. unless for journalistic license you chose the top spec petrol at 23grand and the lowest spec Electric at 27k …..
its more like a 10k difference like for like.
it may be a chunk more cash up front, but you can borrow that money for almost nothing, and get a lot of it back when you sell it after 3 years. I'd be extremely surprised if the depreciation on an electric corsa + electricity was more than the depreciation on a petrol corsa + petrol cost
That Dacia looks a real possibility for a city car. We've picked up a little Aygo to bail out my son whilst his car is 'broken' and for my daughter to learn in. We'll probably keep it as running costs are tiny, but something like the Dacia would be ideal for the commute as a replacement for our bigger cars.
Yeah I don't personally like that car but we really need a cheap EV to get people buying, and other manufacturers building. They are building expensive ones now because there are enough customers to buy all they can produce so they may as well make the high value stuff.
I used the Ionity charger at Gretna services today - 150 kWh charging is pretty amazing. Just need more of them.
Expensive at 69 p per kw, but as I get 95% of my charges for free it would be churlish to moan.
I’d be extremely surprised if the depreciation on an electric corsa + electricity was more than the depreciation on a petrol corsa + petrol cost
I've sold all but two cars in my time to scrapyards when I'm finished.
So the depreciation over 3 years dream model doesn't really work for me. I'm not a car changer in the same way I don't change my washing machine every 3 years when nothing wrong with it.
5lab
Free Member
@trail_rat – I bumped into this the other day (by clicking on the ‘custom vehicle’ manufacturer in autotrader). I can’t imagine its very pleasant, but you don’t seem to care about that. Its certainly cheap
40mph top speed....I'm out.... But as I said and your right....I don't really care how it looks but that said I'd like a decent spares availibility..... I'd quite happily drive a twizzy if it wasn't 12grand for a crippled car(range and top speed) if it was 7 grand on the other hand is live with its foibles.
The Dacia how ever has a 60mph top speed and doors and is an actual car with 4 seats and a 100 mile range rather than a. Quadracycle.
Out Niro only manages 77kWh (and even then that upto 55%), ive sat in it while it does it and all manor of fans noises kick it. its a crazy amount of juice.
We'll see more 150-300kWh charges (and cars that can use them) over the next few years and things will really take off then
It’s really not. Corsa SRI petrol with the same level of kit as the Corsa E-SRI is £22.400 vs £27.100.
Well if only they made a Corsa E-SE
It might be at a price people are willing to pay for a tiny car.....
I want a tiny run around. I'm looking at a Citroen c1. The gap between a c1 and the next smallest electric car after the spring covers a metric **** load of fuel.....
It’s really not. Corsa SRI petrol with the same level of kit as the Corsa E-SRI is £22.400 vs £27.100.
Well if only they made a Corsa E-SE
It might be at a price people are willing to pay for a tiny car.....
I want a tiny run around. I'm looking at a Citroen c1. The gap between a c1 and the next smallest electric car after the spring covers a metric **** load of fuel.....and at my milage either car would be scrapped on age long before I get through it
Well if only they made a Corsa E-SE
They do. It’s £25.8k. But a quick check through CarWow and there are several places offering upto £4K off that.
So now you’re down to £21k for a 50kWh electric car with a 220 mile range that will cost around £220 a month including fuel, tax servicing and 700 miles. You’d be paying £130 a month to run a banger on Dino juice not considering maintenance/repairs/MOT, etc,
Got any more excuses?
@Daffy, what's your workings on that? At that price I'd be interested for sure.
Well now we are getting closer.
How ever a look at car wow reveals again your being economic with the truth to flex your point. Not to mention making some pretty wild assumptions about my current level of spending on vehicles.
It's still looking like a 8-10k premium to get into an electric model from what carwow is offering me ( since there's also discount on the petrol model)I am of course not lookingn at renting.
No economics with the truth. I asked for prices on the Corsa E-SE and the best price I got was £21.4K.
The PCP deal on that was £196. Electric on a cheap tariff would cost £15 for 700 miles, Servicing is every 2 years at £200 for brake inspection, etc. No tax.
Renting - as you so quaintly put it, is no different to owning a depreciating asset, especially when one considers the increasing costs and fragility associated with that asset over extended time periods.
I was very much like you - I always owned cars, as I thought it was the most economical way of having a car, but electric has changed that. The cost is up front, the the total cost of ownership is/can be less.
Our i3 was £19500 at 14m old. After 4 years it has cost us £12k (it’s actually less, but I’m ignoring the £6k extra the car is currently worth due to SH car prices) to do 35k miles including all fuel costs, servicing, maintenance (inc tyres) etc. Fuel over that period would’ve cost £5000 at 50mpg. Tyres have cost us £1200, servicing £550 (bloody BMW!). So running an electric car on PCP has cost us ~£5k over 4 years. Car tax on our old car would’ve been £680 over the same period, MOT £200, £depreciation £££ maintenance ££££ (it was a Fiat!)
I’d have said we’re at worst cost neutral. And have had a 1 year old i3 rather than an 11 year old Fiat.
What are the chances of those Carwow deals ever actually being honoured? What with the shortage of new cars and all.
The money for a Zoe / leaf is insanity given it won’t cover me for family or activity use but something tiny like the Dacia (I have even considered a twizzy) would be ideal
I bought an e-Up just before Christmas. It's a good bit less than a Zoe and not much more than the Dacia once you take off the French subsidies.
Now then had no idea an e-up was a thing. Off to look. Hopefully it costs less than a flat in brechin......
Seperate meters for home EV charging coming?
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/01/06/ev-chargers-to-be-separately-metered/
Seperate meters for home EV charging coming?
EV Chargers To Be Separately Metered
I don’t see how the cars battery could be discharged back into the grid though ( I’m not an electricity expert )
So will all existing home EV chargers need to be retrofitted with smart meters , or just new installations going forwards ?
There’s been V2G trials going for a couple of years already - Ovo, Octopus and others have been doing them. All using Leafs so far as CHAdeMO always had that capability, other ways are still in their infancy.
The stuff about charge point legislation is only partly right. It is to mandate some features on charge points - so they’re “smart” like current grant-funded ones (set off peak times, see how much energy you used, etc) and do things like a random delay after switching back on so there’s not a big demand spike after a power cut. One of the key requirements is that if it loses comms (no wifi, etc) it’ll still charge a car.
Separate metering so they can tax “car electricity” higher is nonsense.
Separate metering so they can tax “car electricity” higher is nonsense.
I'll believe that when I see it. How much does fuel duty bring in again?
Nonsense? What other reason for separate metering?
If it was to avoid peak load that could be done via a smart charger without a separate meter.
Though a higher EV rate is years away. Too big a price differential and people would switch to overnight slow charging via the household meter.
That Dacia looks a real possibility for a city car. We’ve picked up a little Aygo
Yep, I would have one. I have driven Aygo's for the last 10 years and can't see an electric car being any cheaper. My 95,000 mile Aygo has required a new exhaust back box (£30) and some from discs and pads (£150) in 10 years. Does almost 60mpg so fuel costs are low.
I would still replace with the Dacia though as an EV to me is not about saving money. Saying that an EV is also not about spending more money so having an EV available at the low cost end and being comparable to a petrol car is what I, and I imagine many others, are after.
Paying £27K for a Vauxhall Corsa just doesn't make sense to me.
I think this is an overdue service and opportunity. As battery component and chemicals are so rare, with rising costs of raw materials, and with vehicle life getting longer.
Toyota to refurbish and recycle thier own cars.
Update from Sweden:
Kia eNiro has been good, even in the cold we have right now. Yes, it's only -7C, but you can see that hit the economy and range. To be honest, it's only going to get colder, so that will be fun.
Charging has been hit and miss. The garage spot we rent has a charger, so that's not a problem (we get a full hit in about 6-7 hours), but out at the house is another matter. Our leccy supplier's EV/charger bloke is the worst for contact, so I have no idea if he has received the order for a charger or when they are going to install it. If I hear nothing from him in another couple of weeks, I'm going to get another company to get something in (11kW 3fas).
In the meantime, we have a shitty mains charger doing slow charging from an outside socket. 220v 10A is slow as hell and the car keeps telling me it will take 36 hours to go to 100%. It can do 16A, but I need to check that circuit to see if it can take it. I also need to switch out the cable from the supply box to the RCD box to a slightly thicker one to handle the power draw.
Pricing-wise, we stil have to work out how much it is costing compared to the previous car. Electricity is at a really high price right now and the news are reporting that charging cars is four times as expensive it was. On the flip side, some newspapers* are reporting that politicians want to put the price of diesel up to 30kr a litre. It's currently 20kr in town and just under that out here. I don't now how that will pan out with people that need diesel for work, like hauliers.
'*' - Newspapers equivalent to The Mail and The Sun
Now then had no idea an e-up was a thing.
Me neither!
Quick Q as I'm new into this.
A choice of company car could include a Kia EV6, awesome as I'm travelling sales and will be doing a twice monthly London-Goucester-London when offices are open again. There is a charger at the Office end.
For such a vehicle and needing it fully charged by the morning, I'm assuming I need to consider more than a 3 pin plug? Its the 77kw RWD motor.
You should definitely budget on a home charger. 3-pin charging is slow (24hrs+ to recharge) and the plug and socket will get noticeably warm during this time.
If a company car you might find that it includes a home charge point anyway.
How much are we talking for a home charger?
Tricky one. Here in Sweden they range from around 7000kr to 13000kr depending on power rating, but that includes a serious tax reduction. The one I am going for (see above) is going to come in at about 8k to me, so under a grand UKP.
How much are we talking for a home charger?
£500 to £1500 fitted.
we paid 600 quid all in through pod-point (7kWh), grant is going soon but i expect they'll just drop the prices anyway.
I'd say the round trip (London-Goucester-London) is easily done without charging in an EV6, probably even in this weather. However the EV6 has crazy fast DC charging....over 1000k/hour so I'd not even worry about it. get one 🙂
that will cost around £220 a month
Why does nobody ever include the considerable deposits when talking about lease/PCP etc?