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That's about 4 miles/kWh, that's decent especially in the cold.
My MG got delayed until Mar/Apr at the earliest so I've cancelled that with a view to ordering one of the facelifted versions later in the year.
The Govt sneaked out a cut in the EV grant. It's now £1500 on cars up to £32k. Announced yesterday but not sure when it will apply from
New rate applies to orders placed from yesterday (15th) onwards. If you ordered on 14th or earlier then old rate applies.
Dealers register orders that get the grant on a website, they have 7 days grace to get any orders placed from the previous week on there. Worth checking your dealer has if you ordered very recently.
Customer (dealer really, as they're the ones that claim it) gets the rate at the time of order, not at delivery. You shouldn't ever be asked to pay more unless the dealer screwed up and is trying to pass on their mistake.
That’s about 4 miles/kWh, that’s decent especially in the cold.
That was a relatively fast major road trip too. We're going to be doing a bit more town driving today, but the weekend should have a bit more mixed driving in.
Righto - literally about to press go on an Enyaq IV ("we're" having a discussion about car colour tonight, then that's it!)) Anything I should I know from anybody who owns or has experience of one... TIA.
... not only has the car grant been reduced but the home charging point grant due to end in April
not only has the car grant been reduced but the home charging point grant due to end in April
Watch the price of charger installations magically drop by the same amount as the OZEV grant just like the price of EVs did when the EV grant was reduced. These subsidies just encourage vendors to increase their prices by the amount of any grant and trouser the grant. Much better to spend subsidies on making the charging infrastructure fit for purpose.
Or people will go back to buying diesels untill the price of EVs becomes competitive again. Almost no solar panels were sold when the feed in tarif was reduced and sales only picked up again a little when panel prices dropped significantly.
My guess is that prices will drop as soon as sales slow. If they're being sold as fast as they can be made at current prices, why would they drop? They'll use the cash to build new factories and that'll enable them to bring prices down when sales slow.
There's a load more competition coming into the market next year. For the example - new Megane getting excellent reviews. New e-Niro. The Renault 5 concept could be under £20k
Hopefully that will bring down prices, but my guess is not for a couple of years
I just read about the Lightyear cars that have solar panels and can put 12km of charge in per hour they are parked in the sunshine, presumably if you live somewhere really sunny. But even taking theoretical vs real solar panel efficiency that'd easily be enough for our commute, if it were to stay the same.
Imagine a fully solar powered car that you never needed to charge!
Or people will go back to buying diesels untill the price of EVs becomes competitive again.
In honesty the cut doesn't make much difference to me, I'd still have an MG 5 IF I had a method of charging at home.
But I take your point.
I just read about the Lightyear cars that have solar panels and can put 12km of charge in per hour they are parked in the sunshine, presumably if you live somewhere really sunny. But even taking theoretical vs real solar panel efficiency that’d easily be enough for our commute, if it were to stay the same.
That would be good but as you say, that's probably under ideal conditions.
Well in summer time under max conditions you'd be looking at 150km a day, even a third of that would be quite useful. Our commute is only 16km a day.
I'm pretty pro EV but had my confidence was seriously knocked a week ago on a call with someone in the power distribution industry. The infrastructure isn't there. For many charging at home won't be an option, great charge when out but most car parks don't have much more than basic single phase power. Putting in supplies is expensive and there may not be local capacity to do so. The general consensus on the call was EV is a stop gap until hydrogen cell technology gets to commercial levels.
I'm pretty sure that lightyear is vaporware. They're claiming double the efficiency of the best on the market today. It has a slippery shape, and maybe a couple of other tricks, but remember the VW xl1 did all that in a tiny 2 seat chassis and still only managed around double the efficiency of a decent golf. The lightyear claims to seat 5.
If it was as simple as optimization to double the range, the big players would be doing it
I’m pretty pro EV but had my confidence was seriously knocked a week ago on a call with someone in the power distribution industry. The infrastructure isn’t there. For many charging at home won’t be an option, great charge when out but most car parks don’t have much more than basic single phase power. Putting in supplies is expensive and there may not be local capacity to do so. The general consensus on the call was EV is a stop gap until hydrogen cell technology gets to commercial levels.
Was the call sponsored by Toyota?
🤣🙈
I’m pretty pro EV but had my confidence was seriously knocked a week ago on a call with someone in the power distribution industry.
Watch this. Graeme essentially runs the strategy for National Grid on EV infrastructure.
The infra from the distribution companies isn't there AT THE MOMENT. But, with a mix of new investment and more importantly efficient use of existing infra through intelligent management we have a pretty good idea of how to meet the demand.
Sounds more like your someone is anti-EV.
During Arwen while helping setup a welfare station Northern Power had a huge generator delivered. The delivery driver was chatting away to myself and the police, conversation switched to EV vehicles. Delivery driver declares jus how would EVs work in a power cut. He was somewhat staggered to hear the huge generator he had would probably charge mine for years.
The supply for car parks might not be there (now) but people won't be charging in car parks long term. If you live in a flat or terrace there'll be charging points on the street or in your home parking area.
Delivery driver declares jus how would EVs work in a power cut.
Same as petrol cars. Petrol stations don't work with the power off. Also, petrol stations don't get deliveries during fuel shortages, so best not drive a petrol or diesel either.
Yeah I asked him that too.
The supply for car parks might not be there (now) but people won’t be charging in car parks long term. If you live in a flat or terrace there’ll be charging points on the street or in your home parking area.
This. I’ll try and take some photos of round near me in Stockholm. Most of the on-street parking areas have blocks of four chargers for public use and more are being installed. Supermarkets are offering a limited number of EV spaces for people to get a charge while they shop and, while it is not super-fast, the hour you spend in the shop is normally enough to top you up a bit. We did that on Friday night and picked up about 50km.
Even drive throughs are getting chargers. Max (national burger chain) has a load, although these are mostly Tesla ones and mostly taken up by taxis.
Infrastructure will get better, but yes, it will require upgrading the current backbone in the U.K. and probably Sweden. Hydrogen… I keep thinking about it, but it means adding another method of distribution into the system. I though LPG would be awesome, but that is as bad as patrol for CO2 and only really used by people with the imported US cars here. We all have power lines, so EV charging _should_ work.
Maybe I should add the call was about setting up significant numbers of EV charging points with a company that's whole purpose is to supply access points into the grid. Everyone on the call had a vested interrest to make it work. As I said I'd assumed the nay sayers moaning about lack of infrastructure were just anti EV, turns out they may have a point. Yes infrastructure can be put in but it's costly, anyone see the government chipping in any time soon to give it all a massive boost, no me neither.
Will the government be chipping in to setup the costly hydrogen plants, stations and pumps?
I’m pretty sure that lightyear is vaporware.
This. If they really have a car that only needs 83Wh/km, they don't need solar panels to sell it.
12km/hr at that rate means 1kW solar panel - probably just feasible with 5m2 on a sunny UK summer day.
There’s a load more competition coming into the market next year. For the example – new Megane getting excellent reviews. New e-Niro. The Renault 5 concept could be under £20k
Hopefully that will bring down prices, but my guess is not for a couple of years
Legacy auto talk a good game about all the new EV models they are planning but they hardly ever mention production numbers. Currently EVs are production, not demand limited, which is why Tesla can sell 100,000 EVs to Hertz without giving them a discount, so I agree with you that prices will stay high for another year or two.
Yes infrastructure can be put in but it’s costly, anyone see the government chipping in any time soon to give it all a massive boost, no me neither.
£300m in May specifically for infrastructure upgrades to support rapid charging hubs.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-delivers-ps300-million-down-payment-rewire-britain
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are EVs, just with a much less efficient way of getting electricity to their motors.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are EVs, just with a much less efficient way of getting electricity to their motors.
Efficency isn't constrained to just a process.
Industrial and commercial vehicles are more efficient the longer you can run them in a day.
You'll need to elaborate on that Squirrelking. It's established that BEVs are more efficent in terms of getting grid electricity to the driving wheels with significantly less losses, are easy to package as the battery takes up less place than the equivalent hydrogen tank. The only plus to hydrogen is the fill time versus recharge time.
That and well over 90% of hydrogen currently being produced from fossil fuels, no distribution system beyond trucks on the road, losses in storage.
The only plus to hydrogen is the fill time versus recharge time.
Well not just that, I can see other benefits. There are places in the world that can generate limitless free energy but don't have good grid connections to the rest of the world (Iceland springs to mind) so you could generate lots of hydrogen and compress it, and the inefficiency would be less of an issue.
Also there is likely to be a need for certain vehicles to use hydrogen because charging just isn't available, such as Northern Canada or Siberia etc.
But overall yes I really don't think it's a good solution for everyone.
Iceland has 30% geothermal and 70% hydro electricity; if ever there was a place in the world BEVs will work it's Icelend. Production isn't limitless, it still has a cost, environmental in the case of hydro, and efficiency is always a good thing.
Given the number of trucks in Northern Canada I think the planet can cope with those running on fossil fuels which have an energy density far more attractive than hydrogen if you have to transport your fuel long distances.
Just as I predicted. As soon as the Plug-in Grant is reduced EV prices magically drop at the same time
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vauxhall-cuts-corsa-e-and-mokka-e-prices-%C2%A33000
It’s established that BEVs are more efficent in terms of getting grid electricity to the driving wheels with significantly less losses, are easy to package as the battery takes up less place than the equivalent hydrogen tank. The only plus to hydrogen is the fill time versus recharge time.
I imagine that fill time is probably where commercial operation of BEV falls over, currently.
Some while back there was a good video posted where JCB were showing hydrogen power plant as the most likely route. Although hydrogen has plenty problems of its own.
The latest premium EV’s are now charging fast enough that you’ll struggle to have a piss and a burger before it’s ready to do another 3 hour stint. Normal EV’s won’t be long in catching ‘em.
As soon as the Plug-in Grant is reduced EV prices magically drop at the same time
But the grant dropped by £1k and the prices have dropped by £3k.
I have a suspicion that the small EVs are sold not as profit making lines but to meet quota requirements for average CO2 emissions across the range. Hence the odd reason for discontinuing the Skoda Citigo - that it was too popular.
You’ll need to elaborate on that Squirrelking.
Mechanical vs economic efficiencies.
As you and mrmonkfinger alluded to, recharge time is BEV's downfall in a commercial/industrial environment. If you need machinery to operate as close to 24/7 as possible batteries aren't an option now or any time soon.
But the grant dropped by £1k and the prices have dropped by £3k.
The grant dropped by £1k but the maximum recommended retail price of vehicles eligible for the grant has been reduced from £35,000 to £32,000.
the maximum recommended retail price of vehicles eligible for the grant has been reduced from £35,000 to £32,000
Yes, I thought, from the link, that the previous price of the two models was under £32k - but on re-reading it, perhaps that was the post-grant price, I understand the £3k drop now. It supports my hypothesis that manufacturers have a quota of such cars they must sell, even if they make a loss.
The latest premium EV’s are now charging fast enough that you’ll struggle to have a piss and a burger before it’s ready to do another 3 hour stint.
I reckon that's still going to be problematic for a JCB digging a hole in the middle of nowhere.
OK bets are on for which of the following gets reduced first
Nissan Leaf e+ - £32445
ID.3 Life (Pro) - £32200
Enyaq - £34850
Kia e-Niro - £34995
Hyundai Kona - £34995
My money is on VW as they probably need the carbon credits more than the others
Ah never thought of an eJCB 🙂
I reckon that’s still going to be problematic for a JCB digging a hole in the middle of nowhere.
Fortunately the number of JCBs Vs Cars means letting them use fossil fuels would be a minimal effect.
OK bets are on for which of the following gets reduced first
Nissan Leaf e+ – £32445
ID.3 Life (Pro) – £32200
Enyaq – £34850
Kia e-Niro – £34995
Hyundai Kona – £34995My money is on VW as they probably need the carbon credits more than the others
I think VW's price includes something in the on-the-road price that doesn't count towards list price, it's on the OZEV qualifying vehicles list.
Nissan took a few weeks to adjust prices after the March cut, given they're doing a decent deposit contribution and other discount they don't need to trim much to get the 40kWh Tekna and 62kWh e+ N-Connecta under. Maybe they won't for the e+ Tekna, quite glad I ordered mine a couple of months ago.
No chance for Enyaq or the 64kWh Koreans IMO. The e-Niro got a new base spec with the big battery to squeak under last time, and the Kona got a hefty cut too. They still have 39kWh versions that qualify for the grant, and a clear gap now that makes them seem better value.
Ah never thought of an eJCB 🙂
They exist although not large ones. JCB claiming all the usual advantages of battery power such as low noise, zero emissions, reduced maintenance, lower running costs and they claim all their battery vehuicles are designed to achieve a full 8 hour work day. They also offer power packs to replace generators for site lighting etc.
https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/campaigns/etech-range