Anything else I should be doing like taking out a charging network subscription with any of the other providers or downloading their apps?
If you are already on ZapMap then just have a look what providers are most common in the areas you'll be travelling.
ZapMap also have some useful stats on the market shares etc:
https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/#share
If anyone was thinking about the MG5 estate as a practical EV bike-lugger note that the permitted roof load is actually zero. Marketing info (which had showed a bike on the roof) have been changed. The roof rails on the higher spec one are apparently cosmetic only.
The roof rails on the higher spec one are apparently cosmetic only.
WTF???
That’s as daft as the BMW leccy we looked at where the salesperson casually mentioned that you couldn’t put anything heavy in the boot because the battery was under it. 😳
That’s why an EV won’t start if the 12v runs flat, and will need jump starting similar to an ICE car.
(as I understand it anyway.)
True. A significant amount of time is spent at work having to jump-start cars with flat batteries, and up until recently we had close on 3000 cars across our site and storage areas. It gets pretty tedious pretty quickly. The Teslas that come in are put on charge, as are any pure EV’s, (not that we get many of those yet) but hybrids just get put with everything else.
We did have a Toyota Mira in, but that went out on a transporter - they’re hydrogen fuel-cell tech, and it had 72 miles range left in the tank, and there’s no filling stations locally can handle that.
the XC4O Recharge.
Not a small car, we’ve got several, and the boss has one, I had to move one out of storage for a transporter on Monday, and they’re not dainty! Roughly the same length as an Octavia, at a guess, and a lot taller. Lovely to drive, I would guess an electric version would be pretty rapid, and quiet.
I read today that Toyota are bringing out a new EV with a solid-state battery - gives around 310 miles range, but can be charged in 10 minutes! Now that could be the game-changer.
@CountZero - how does the XC4O interior compare size wise to a Passat estate? Boot looks a bit pokey from the outside and also think the back seats likely to be smaller overall for three passengers. Need to get to a dealer for a look really
I'm still just amazed at GrahamS' Leaf at such a daft cheap price - insurance and servicing means the cost of that Leaf is maybe £70 a month?
Personally I’m still struggling with car choice. We wanted an SUV and the full electric Xc40 would be perfect but Crikey it’s not cheap. With now only 9 years until diesel is gone, throwing 20k on 2nd hand diesel GLC in the interim seems a waste and that we’d be throwing a Merc away in 2030.
it feels to me that running our Kuga as bangernomics for a couple more years until new electric cars at cheaper prices become available, albeit a new DPF is on the horizon. Feels environmentally counter intuitive to me.
With now only 9 years until diesel is gone, throwing 20k on 2nd hand diesel GLC in the interim seems a waste and that we’d be throwing a Merc away in 2030.
They're banned from sale, not from use.
That's right about pure EV needing the 12V lead acid to run, well it is for a Leaf anyway.
The 12v system is required to energise the HV system and run all the usual stuff like control units, radio, etc. Then when the car is in run mode the lithium battery keeps the 12V topped up.
I've had to jump start a Leaf several times even though the lithium battery had entry of charge.
Joined the club today
Well, I installed this today - it's 11kw 3 phase & replaces a 7.2kw single phase charger, users say it's 3.5 to 4 times faster to charge their cars.
Cost £1195 less 18% discount plus about £50 for some 16mm cable & a 40A MCB
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That makes no sense. How can an 11kw charger be 3-4 times faster?
My car has a 33kwh battery pack. On a 7kw charger this takes just under 5 hours from empty, with the car taking 7kw for 91% of the pack and then slowing to 5kw for the next 4% and 3kw for the remaining 5%. I can see that it would be 50% faster for 90% of the charge, but how could it possibly by 300-400% faster?
3-4 times faster than a three pin plug?
I think my 3 phase charge point is theoretically 3x a single. The limitation is in the car, for which 11kw is common. Mine's max is about 17kw which also isn't 3x faster, but it's not so far off.
It makes no difference for overnight charging but on accession has been handy.
But those chargers up there state 11kw.
My guess would be that when two cars were charging when it was on single phase that each was getting just over 3kw, whereas now, each car is getting the full 11kw. Which would be 3.5* faster.
For a single charge point it would only be 50% faster.
Is rapid charging at home something that's needed? I thought most would charge overnight when they're in bed so 3 or 7kw would be sufficient?
Is rapid charging at home something that’s needed? I thought most would charge overnight when they’re in bed so 3 or 7kw would be sufficient?
That^ looks like a commercial Rolec unit not a domestic, so could be for delivery vehicles or whatever.
Nice whip @bensales! The facelift M3 looks much better with the chrome delete and I think it also benefits from a heat pump that will help with range. Enjoy, they are absolutely silly fast! I still drive around laughing like a lunatic at the turn of pace on mine, 9 months in. Great cars
The facelift M3 looks much better with the chrome delete
They had them at Leeds at the end of November, I'm sure on black it looks good but I wasn't so taken with the black trim on white (which of course is the base colour now). With the ^Blue it looks better I think yes.
dave661350
Free Member
Is rapid charging at home something that’s needed? I thought most would charge overnight when they’re in bed so 3 or 7kw would be sufficient?
Yeah, >7kw not really needed at home. It's really only once in a blue moon that an overnight 7kw wouldn't have done the job. More applicable for locations you might be at for a couple of hours or other applications like commercial maybe.
NB none of these is "rapid" as such. All basic AC speeds and charging over a few hours.
However slightly faster charging can be a "nice to have" and if you happen to have a 3 phase connection etc, I think it doesn't cost much more to install a 3 phase charge point over a single phase. Eg a Tesla wall connector is essentially the same hardware either way.
If you have a big battery car and are on Octopus Go tariff, you might want a faster than 7.2kw home charger to be able to charge within the 4hr cheap tariff window.
That new model 3 does look very smart @bensales. Hope it goes well for you.
I read somewhere that there have been lots of little improvements along the way already. Heat pump obvs but more besides I believe.
A lot seems to go into small efficiency gains in Tesla I think. My EV experience is all tesla then I test drove the MG estate EV the other day. All things considered I thought pretty good, but the energy consumption it was reporting was a bit higher than I expected, like same as my much bigger and heavier car would report and it was nearly all pretty slow driving.
Also I really hope there's a good engineering reason the regen braking doesn't go down to zero and it's not just an effort to make it feel like an old auto. When I go back from my EV to anything else that's what I miss the most. Much better to spend all of 5 minutes getting used to that change (which is mostly positive anyway, it seems to me) than design a whole car round avoiding it.
Anyway, reason for MG test drive was for my sister who needs an estate, ideally, or similar access and storage space, and doesn't really want an SUV. Seems there isn't much out there and we'll have to try some of the SUV EVs too.
She's also a user of hand controls for disability. Hard to judge how the shift to EV and that change in how pedals work will be advantageous/disadvantageous for that but my starting assumption is a genuine "one pedal driving" mode might be lovely for her, because no arm push required for deceleration to a standstill. Trouble is, can't really fit hand controls for a quick test drive.
I've got to place an order for a new company car.
I was looking at the hybrid Leon, as I currently have the petrol version, but I'm going to end up paying about £300 a month in BIK / personal contribution for a car which will spend quite a bit of time sat on the drive, even when we eventually return to a post COVID-19 world.
The current deal with my Leon is pretty much cost neutral so that £300 a month is going to put a big dent in my bike part purchasing fund / putting food on the table budget.
VW ID.3 works out to £30 a month.
I can't see the downside. Is there one?
Was looking forward to the ID3 being a good alternative to the Tesla 3 but been a bit underwhelmed with reviews tbh. Range not that good. No supercharger equivalent. Not big storage considering it’s a dedicated ev. Looks meh. So so to drive. Performance is average. Drum brakes on rear (! Didn’t we get told 30 yrs ago disks were far better?)
When I go back from my EV to anything else that’s what I miss the most.
I've got a petrol courtesy car at the moment and I think the main thing I'm missing (especially at this time of year) is the instant heater, or even having the car nice and warm before you get in it.
I can’t see the downside. Is there one?
Not for the price. My i3s is cheaper to lease than a fiesta due to the BIK reduction so it made the decision a no brainier.
"That makes no sense. How can an 11kw charger be 3-4 times faster?"
11kw 3 phase is not just 3.8kw more than 7.2kw single phase, its a lot more.
The left cable in the picture is charging a 67 plate Mitsubishi PHEV, the driver lives further away than the battery range so the vehicles battery is fully discharged when he arrives in the morning, when he goes for lunch at 1300 the battery was only 65% charged on the 7.2kw charger - now its 90% (but as charging rate reduces as the battery gets full its difficult to calculate how much quicker)
The right cable is charging a 19 plate Merc EQ diesel hybrid E class & the driver lives within the vehicles battery range.
From the drivers app, the data shows:
7.2kw single phase charging from 12% to 90% takes 4h56m
11kw 3 phase charging from 10% to 90% takes 1h36m
7.2kw single phase charging from 10% to 90% takes 4h50m
11kw 3 phase charging from 11% to 90% takes 1h39m
I still don't understand that - surely you can't cheat physics.
What size battery is it charging and is that 3 phase charger 32A?
Merc EQ diesel hybrid E class
From the drivers app, the data shows:
7.2kw single phase charging from 12% to 90% takes 4h56m
11kw 3 phase charging from 10% to 90% takes 1h36m
11kW 3 phase is a 230V ac 16A charger, 7.2kW single phase likely a 230V 32A charger. The 11kW really is 2.8kW more.
So I think that’s a 13.5kWh battery no?
So in both instances it’s putting in around 10.9kWh.
So the 11kW charger has an effective charge rate of 6.8kW across 96 minutes.
And the 7.2kW charger 2.2kW.
Something other than the charger is throttling that process.
I suspect the car’s on board charger (AC/DC conversion etc) can’t handle 32A of input on a single phase (probably not on 3 phase either).
A 10A onboard capability in the 3 phase AC bit of the car’s charger, would give roughly those charge times.
Bigger chargers are not always the answer.
More phases? Possibly.
More convenience? Almost definitely
On my eGolf it cant charge faster than 7kW unless you use a DC connection then it will go up to 50kW so for us it would be pointless getting a faster charger installed at home. Take about 3 hours to charge though (the range isn't great compared to other electric cars mind) unless you are really low on battery and then the first 20% or so is at about 3.5kW rate. We have a 32a breaker for the charging point.
but as charging rate reduces as the battery gets full its difficult to calculate how much quicker
In a big way on 100kw+ DC, sure, but not really relevant on 11kw (or whatever speed) AC.
As above, something else is throttling the single phase example. If a car's on board charger limits single phase to 2.2kw (so essentially 3 pin plug speed) for the whole charge that would be potentially seriously limiting, although less so for a hybrid sized battery.
There are a few cars that can only charge at 3kw per phase, so they will charge at 11kw on a 3-phase supply but only 3kw on a single phase supply; they are fine in Europe with more common 3-phase supplies but pretty pointless in the UK. The skoda citigo-ev is one of them; might the car above be another?
Most cars with a 7kw single phase charger will charge slower on an 11kw 3-phase supply than they will on a 7kw single phase supply. Trying to charge a pure EV at 3kw is something I'd do only if I had no other options, it's veeeeery slow indeed.
Order placed for my VW ID 3 this afternoon. Delivery date requested for May 21 when my current contract expires.
I think the ID3 is a great car. My SiL has just got one in white and it looks fantastic in the flesh. Her husband picked it up from St Albans and drove it home to Northumberland with 1 splash and dash at a rapid charger halfway up. I’m trying to convince my wife to get one.
It’s what I was going to go for but they were delayed, they then released just before my E-Tron arrived. They do look good but I’m not sure about the interior, need a proper look at one.
@nickewen @luket thanks chaps, really enjoying the car so far. Mind bendingly fast, and I come from a background of riding superbikes, so that’s saying something!
Lost my supercharger virginity this evening. So easy, it’s how all charging networks should be. Although it’s going to cost me a fortune in Costa hot chocolate.
(ID3) Drum brakes on rear (! Didn’t we get told 30 yrs ago disks were far better?)
Must admit, I thought that when I watched a review of the car.
But then I thought, given the regen of the electric motors, drums are probably more than sufficient at the back so why carry the expense of disks?
Mind bendingly fast, and I come from a background of riding superbikes, so that’s saying something!
I think the biggest noticeable difference is they don’t pause at any point, they just seem to accelerate faster the quicker you go.
@bensales welcome to the future!
Since my 6 months free elapsed I've barely used a supercharger. In about 20k miles over mainly 200 mile journeys. Unless you're doing seriously long journeys you might be the same. So you might get away with only very little money spent on shit coffee.
Don't tell anyone we don't much rely on charging networks though. Motoring journalists' brains would explode.
But then I thought, given the regen of the electric motors, drums are probably more than sufficient at the back so why carry the expense of disks?
Given how little the brakes on an EV actually get used, could drum brakes be better in terms of maintenance? I can't imagine disc brakes being very good if they don't get used much, whereas drum brakes are more enclosed and might not mind so much.
Don’t tell anyone we don’t much rely on charging networks though. Motoring journalists’ brains would explode.
My next car will be electric and I can't see me ever having to charge it away from the house based on the driving I do.
However, there is still a BIG problem to solve for those people who don't have a drive and for example live on a terraced street where their car could be parked 50 metres away from their house. And millions of people are in that situation.
I can’t imagine disc brakes being very good if they don’t get used much, whereas drum brakes are more enclosed and might not mind so much.
that makes sense yes.
Since my 6 months free elapsed I’ve barely used a supercharger. In about 20k miles over mainly 200 mile journeys. Unless you’re doing seriously long journeys you might be the same. So you might get away with only very little money spent on shit coffee
I didn’t really need to use a Supercharger last night, just there’s one close, I’ve got some free referral miles, and it was an excuse to drive the car! 😉
But that said, the Supercharger network was one of the key reasons I picked the Tesla. My job requires me to work away from home, stopping in hotels. So my driving is either tooling around town, or it’s long distance on a Monday, stay away, then long distance back home later in the week. The superchargers take all worry and hassle out of this kind of driving.
I think the ID3 is a great car. My SiL has just got one in white and it looks fantastic in the flesh.
I went for the standard grey as it was free. I opted for some alloys though:
However, there is still a BIG problem to solve for those people who don’t have a drive and for example live on a terraced street where their car could be parked 50 metres away from their house. And millions of people are in that situation.
Yeah this pops up ever EV thread, charging stations will help, on street chargers will be easy enough to install and then charging on route or destination.
@bensales the supercharger network should sort you out no trouble at all. However with your usage you might find quite a lot of AC options incidental to your parking/overnight stays.
I work 200 miles away a fair bit too, for a few days at a time, but it's always the same location and I can charge there. I now spend less time in service stations than I did with a diesel.
I don't think it makes a real difference unless you're a really heavy user but worth bearing in mind that super fast DC charging is worse for batteries than AC over the long term.
Re id3, I think it looks like a great car too. I don't read much but after seeing fully charged's glowing video of it I'm interested to see what the motoring journos dislike. And a little skeptical since they have a track record of rather missing the point on EVs. There were views that the software isn't great though, which would be annoying.
I would imagine the use of drum brakes is because on the rear in an emergency stop, which is pretty much what they're for assuming it's got decent regen, there isn't enough down force of tyre on road to make use of more stopping power. A lot of folks' experience of EVs is the friction brakes just don't get much use. I think this is my experience too although only 30k miles in so it'll be a while before I know anything about brake parts longevity.
I went 10k miles before I had to do a hard stop. I had it in the back of my mind til that point that my brakes felt a little rough. Turned out they just needed to see a bit of action and have been smooth since then.
Mine doesn’t use the brakes until it reaches .3G of force, or does seem to periodically apply the brakes at slow speed perhaps to clean the discs. It is disc all round but does weigh over 2 tonne.
The iD3 reminds me a bit of a Ford Focus, but it is nice looking and I do like the grey.
I've only had to charge my car a couple of times at home as I normally do it at work. Looks like i'll have to do it maybe once or twice over the Christmas period at home. I still haven't done a long enough journey to use a public or garage charger. Still hoping to get a 22kw charger fitted at work next year in our depot and not use the 7kw charger at the main office. Not as if there is a queue for them at the moment.
3G? Are you sure?!
