MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
But a tin foil hatted part of me wonders if this is just paving the way for taxing EV charging – as a way to recoup fuel duty in the future.
Well something's got to replace lost fuel duty hasn't it?
it'll be road charging, way too easy to bypass the smart charger is you wanted to
I used the Belford (Northumberland) Tesla supercharger for my eTron a couple of weeks ago. Was simpler to use even than the Ionity ones, but it has hi-lighted the stupid position of the charging sockets on the car. I had to get the bumper almost touching the charger to get the plug to reach. On the return at 2 am I just drove along side blocking another bay in the hope that there wouldn't be much business at that time of the morning.
In recent trips down south I've been impressed with the aptly titled Fastned facility at Hamilton, the new Grid Serve chargers at Burton-in-Kendal and MFG Chargers at Crow Orchard (J27 of the M6).
Length DOES matter!
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Fast Neds just outside Glasgow
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I’ve got a question. For RWD EVs… how does regenerative braking work when driving “enthusiastically”? For example, a BMW i4 40. It could be a bit like pulling on the handbrake mid corner if done wrong which would end badly so I’m sure the on board computer wouldn’t allow. So what happens? No regen while cornering? Front brakes are employed to balance things out?
My employer is about to offer a salary sacrifice scheme for EVs with a company called LeasePlan.
Have they made a good choice or should we avoid at all costs?
I’ve got a question. For RWD EVs… how does regenerative braking work when driving “enthusiastically”? For example, a BMW i4 40. It could be a bit like pulling on the handbrake mid corner if done wrong which would end badly so I’m sure the on board computer wouldn’t allow. So what happens? No regen while cornering? Front brakes are employed to balance things out?
Skoda Enyaq; Can’t notice anything odd; you’d not know it was just the rear wheels applying braking force (in fact I’m I too you mentioned it, it hadn’t even occurred to me). I don’t think even full regen is actually very much braking at all in the grand scheme of things, and you’d really need to be driving ‘full twunt’ and be extremely close to the limits of adhesion for it to make any difference. You certainly don’t get that weird arse end settling feeling that you get when you use the handbrake to slow down instead of the footbrake (to see if you can put the right number of clicks on to gently stop at the line, obviously, I can’t be the only one who doe this on quiet roads every now and again?).
I'd expect the ESP to know exactly what's going on with all the wheels, so yeah if there were a hint of slippage it'd reduce regen, which it can do instantly. But as above, regen isn't that much so you'd have to be right on the edge and remember these cars aren't sports cars, if you get that close to the limit don't expect them to behave like one.
My employer is about to offer a salary sacrifice scheme for EVs with a company called LeasePlan.
Aren't they the ones who take advantage of the fact your payment is pre-tax and simply stick 40% on top of the normal prices?
If anything like Teslas then the moment wheel lock-up is detected, regen is rapidly reduced until the wheel rotates again and then subsequently much less than usual.
<blockquoteAren’t they the ones who take advantage of the fact your payment is pre-tax and simply stick 40% on top of the normal prices?
That seems to be standard practice for Sal Sac providers. Certainly at least half the tax saving goes to them.
I’ve got a question. For RWD EVs… how does regenerative braking work when driving “enthusiastically”? For example, a BMW i4 40. It could be a bit like pulling on the handbrake mid corner if done wrong which would end badly so I’m sure the on board computer wouldn’t allow. So what happens? No regen while cornering? Front brakes are employed to balance things out?
In most modern systems all regen requests are processed in the same way as a brake request, i.e. negative torque, the motors just act as extra actuators.
And traction/stability/steering controls are a factor in how that torque request is handled. So you'll have a request for xNm braking sent to the rear motor and it'll do just that, when x gets too large it'll be split between front and rear axles (so you'll activate front friction brakes) when it gets larger again (and hits the threshold for the motor) you'll have motor and friction braking the rear axle, and just friction on the front.
Steering works the same way, as you increase yaw rate the clever bits will add braking to the correct front wheel to ensure that the car stays level and doesn't start sliding all over the place.
The original i3 got this hugely wrong and had a large number of complaints and a rushed fix, which wasn't very good either.
I don’t think even full regen is actually very much braking at all in the grand scheme of things
Most of the current and maybe ~50% of the previous gen can hit ~2.5 m/s2 deceleration just with one pedal drive. Even the i3, which is effectively two generations old, can do that.
In a straight line the limitation is the energy going back into the battery, but it's still possible to hit over 5m/s2 momentarily, completely on the electric motors (in AWD). A full on emergency stop will be around 8m/s2. And use friction brakes.
Oh I say. The Ioniq 6:
I knew it was wise to wait… 😀
BMW have launch the new 1X too, bizarrly with only 275 miles wltp. Perhaps they know mrs K only drives short distances…
Oh I say. The Ioniq 6:
But will it tow a caravan?
Dunno. The Ioniq 5 is one of the best towers so maybe.
Also saw an EQE at the Merc dealer today. Phwoargh.
bizarrly with only 275 miles wltp. Perhaps they know mrs K only drives short distances…
Since when us 275 miles a short distance? It's plenty, I've got no issues with a 185 mile range.
BMW have launch the new 1X too, bizarrly with only 275 miles wltp. Perhaps they know mrs K only drives short distances…
Not sure what's bizarre about it, knowing what the huge majority of your customers *actually* do, and making the car more efficient (lighter) seems to be a win win.
Something like 95% of customers could do a weeks driving on a 400km range battery and only do two or three journeys a year that need a mid journey top up there and back.
I'm guessing we're going to see a lot more prestige cars with prestige prices and smaller ranges (and better efficiency) until there is a step change in battery cost and/or achievable energy density.
Dunno. The Ioniq 5 is one of the best towers so maybe.
Whoosh. I should have used one of these 😉
Ioniq 6
Hmmm.
So behind the back wheel was styled by Porsche and between the wheels by Merc, but who did the front of the car?
Yes I thought it a cross between a Mercedes CLA and a Porsche.
Whilst we're waiting for that to come out there's another new model on the market:
until there is a step change in battery cost and/or achievable energy density.
Judging by my news feed that's coming, and fairly soon. That's why I'll hold off getting another; either the new bsttery tech will be cheaper, or it'll demolish used prices of current tech. People seem to be pretty obsessed with being able to drive 300 miles or more without a stop.
Judging by my news feed that’s coming, and fairly soon
Dunno where you are getting your news from but if you are waiting for solid state batteries the opinion from an expert at the Battery Cells and Systems Expo I attended today is you'll be holding off until after 2030. Yes pilot scale solid state exists but getting it commercialised at scale is going to take many years.
Dunno where you are getting your news from
Lots of it from phys.org, about developments in battery tech. Sure the stuff they report isn't going to be on the shelves next week, but the numbers of people solving long-standing problems for different battery chemistries seems quite high. Lithium-air, lithium-metal, lithium-sulphur etc not just solid state.
Nissan is opening a prototype solid state factory and is aiming for a car on sale by 2028.
Id quite like to jump on the hype train some point next year when my current car will be 8 years old and owe me nothing finance wise. I'm not a bad candidate for charging at home since have a driveway and garage but currently work involves driving some fairly long distances. I tend to be fairly regular at stopping for a piss break anyway so to be honest I don't see it affecting much there.
Just wish they weren't so expensive to purchase or lease, I don't get any fancy company car salary sacrifice tax hack schemes just a straight up 3k a year (fairly shite) allowance, taxable at 20%.
but currently work involves driving some fairly long distances
How are you reimbursed for using your car on business? If you get the HMRC rate of 45p per mile then if you use an EV with decent efficiency that’s a nice little earner. Combined with lower maintenance and zero vehicle excise duty might make the total cost of ownership more competitive for you.
How are you reimbursed for using your car on business? If you get the HMRC rate of 45p per mile then if you use an EV with decent efficiency that’s a nice little earner. Combined with lower maintenance and zero vehicle excise duty might make the total cost of ownership more competitive for you.
Nowhere near 45p a mile, more like 21p but it might be less than that for those using an EV. All I can do is claim tax relief on the difference.
5p a mile for EV isn’t it ?
Our company policy states 15ppm and I believe it follows HMRC.
Just wish they weren’t so expensive to purchase or lease, I don’t get any fancy company car salary sacrifice tax hack schemes just a straight up 3k a year (fairly shite) allowance, taxable at 20%
This is me, just had to “refresh” a euro 4 diesel to keep it another year until perhaps costs and availability calm down. With the news that gov.uk is failing big time on he 2050 climate target I feel very dirty, but not prepared to hit the family financially in the current climate. I don’t think they are doing anything much to promote green travel IMO. I will though take trains where I can.
Judging by my news feed that’s coming, and fairly soon.
Going from success in a lab to commercial/domestic scales is a HUGE step. There are technologies that have been "solved" for lab and small scale tech use 10 or 20 years ago that are still 10 years off for true volume production.
I suspect the early Solid State cars will be much like fuel cell, low volume for a few years then quietly shelved, i mean, we've had fuel cells for a decade and there were still only something like 75-100000 sold globally, and that's over 10 models and 5 or 6 manufacturers, 3 of whom have discontinued development.
Unless they can actually solve the current issues on a production line, turning out 5000 units a day. Each one of which is almost fit and forget/minimal servicing for several years.
@uponthedowns - I was about to post the same thing - I think we were talking to the same people!
I was at the same show - albeit for the Advanced Materials bit - I has a wander around the battery expo for interest 😃
Going from success in a lab to commercial/domestic scales is a HUGE step.
Yes I know that, that is the stuff I read about.
I get to deal with the people writing the articles, trying to sell their "fully industrialised process".
"We built a production line that can make 5 units an hour, scrap rate is 20%. I think we're ready for the big time now."
"How are you reimbursed for using your car on business? If you get the HMRC rate of 45p per mile then if you use an EV with decent efficiency that’s a nice little earner. Combined with lower maintenance and zero vehicle excise duty might make the total cost of ownership more competitive for you."
Nowhere near 45p a mile, more like 21p but it might be less than that for those using an EV. All I can do is claim tax relief on the difference.
If they are giving you a car allowance then there is no compulsion to give you the 45p (and iit would be taxed if they did).
They can set their own milage rate that can vary between fuel types/engine sizes etc.
If you are doing long trips and need to use motorway chargers 5ppm probably isnt going to cover it.
I get to deal with the people writing the articles, trying to sell their “fully industrialised process”.
Fortunately I'm also aware of how these things get written 🙂
My comment is about the number of different groups of people doing it, not what they are actually saying.
If you are doing long trips and need to use motorway chargers 5ppm probably isnt going to cover it.
Not to mention that business mileage rates should cover total ownership costs on a pro rata basis rather than just fuel; in my experience, (on our second leased EV now, but also run two IC cars in our household) costs are not very dissimilar between electric and IC for reasonably new, like for like vehicles. They aren’t cheap to own, they just happen to have cheap fuel (for now).
Not to mention that business mileage rates should cover total ownership costs on a pro rata basis rather than just fuel; in my experience, (on our second leased EV now, but also run two IC cars in our household) costs are not very dissimilar between electric and IC for reasonably new, like for like vehicles. They aren’t cheap to own, they just happen to have cheap fuel (for now).
which is why he gets the £3k car allowance
You either get car allowance + "fuel cost" which would be the ~15ppm ICE or 5ppm EV
Or you get 45ppm tax free (up to your first 10000 miles) and nothing else which is meant to cover, proportionally, your running costs, depreciation etc.
Ah, fair enough, didn’t spot that bit. To be honest, the way that running costs are going, both figures are pretty derisory.
This is what Molgrips is referring to I assume. A battery that's very thermal efficient so can maintain a max charge rate for much longer than current batteries
CATL LAUNCHES CTP 3.0 BATTERY
– CATL released more details on its new module-less battery packs called Qilin, which are expected to be mass produced and come on the market in 2023.
– The VCTP (volumetric cell to pack) ratio is 72 %, which is the percentage of the total battery pack volume dedicated to the active material that actually stores energy (cells), leaving 28 % of the total volume to the passive material, responsible of assembling and protecting the cells. For comparison, the popular BYD Blade battery had an estimated VCTP ratio of 62,41 % when released.
– CATL will use multiple metal plates between the cells multiplying the heat transfer surface area by 4, making the TMS (Thermal Management System) very fast and efficient in heating or cooling the battery. This will not only enable to heat the battery in just 5 minutes when there are freezing temperatures, but also cool down the battery so it can be charged at a constant 4 C-rate and only take 10 minutes from 10 to 80 %.
– CATL claims that the NCM packs will enable a range of 1.000 km, probably in China Light-Duty Vehicle Test Cycle (CLTC), which is around 782 km in WLTP.
– Imagine an efficient electric car with a 60 kWh LFP battery that can be charged at a constant 240 kW rate, do you really need more battery capacity?
Original Source : https://pushevs.com/2022/06/23/catl-launches-ctp-3-0-battery/
I did read that one yes.
Imagine an efficient electric car with a 60 kWh LFP battery that can be charged at a constant 240 kW rate, do you really need more battery capacity?
No, but with more energy-dense batteries you could have the same range with half the weight and cost, e.g. with a lithium sulphur battery.
Anyone got an Ioniq 5 yet?
How are you getting on?
whatgoesup - the Model 3 will take two bikes (with front wheels off) and two people, and all their stuff. There's a surprising amount of storage if you use the froot and bloot as well as the boot.
I think you'd get three people and their bikes in. Would be uncomfortable though.
Model Y is the same price as the 3, isn't it?
@flaperon / yep, they’re pretty much the same price now I believe. I just like the way the 3 looks (simple vanity).
Realistically two adults and their bikes on a towbar rack (or roof mounted - plan to have both) is what I want to be able to do.
The bigger challenge is probably me plus two nine year olds and their stuff - scooters, luggage, a tent and sleeping bags and etc. I know it won’t be as “easy” as a big estate but do-able is good enough. If I have to put a roof box on regularly it will get annoying really quickly - ideally the roof box is for 2-3 trips a year etc.
Saw my BiL at the weekend. He’s picked up an old C1 EV’ie and a really old fiat 126. He’s stripping the guts out of the EV’ie and transferring into the 126.
looks like an awesome little project and my 10yr old son is itching to help.
Pete - my Ioniq5 finally turns up Friday!!! I’ll let you know.
I’ve been driving an MG 5 EV for 3 months and had an Audi A6 estate for 4 years before. I’m looking forward to the fast charging capabilities of the I5 as the MG would only pull 50KW
charge speeds tend to be overlooked and its just (if not more) important as over all capacity, the Niro tops out at 75kW and only for the first 50ish percent of battery, its 50 after that. doubling that would make a massive difference when charging out and about.
Charging speed dependence in starting capacity is a significant factor in planning a trip. It drops off after 50% and even more after 75%. If you could rely on chargers not being broken or occupied you could plan to charge at a lower state, saving time, improving battery longevity and freeing up the charger sooner. The percentage of chargers showing on zap-map as unreliable is quite high, and depending where you are it can be a long way to the next one with a reasonable speed.
as the MG would only pull 50KW
In optimum conditions the MG5 should go up to about 95kw until about 50%, then gradually fall from there.
A problem is that "optimum conditions" are so rarely met that the claimed charging speeds of cars are worse than broadband speeds... it takes a warm battery (normally a good chunk of fast driving beforehand on a warm day), a mostly empty battery, and a charger that can actually provide what the car can take... most chargers are still 50kw ones anyway.
Anyone got an Ioniq 5 yet?
How are you getting on?
4 months in on AWD version and it's a great car. Looks amazing (IMHO), V spacious front and back, comfortable riding and seats on our rubbish local roads, fastest thing I've ever owned, handles pretty decently (with one proviso below), charges really quickly on the odd occasion I've needed to away from home, to the point where you only have time for a wee and it's back to 80%. Regen tech is quite complex but v configurable and clever. Loving not having to pod out for diesel - just wish I had the cash for solar panels. OTA updates now started for infotainment. Apple carplay is great but I also like the onboard sat nav.
Downsides are the boot is quite big but rake of the back window stops you piling it up. This is better if you remove the false floor. Massive with seats down eg for a bike.
If you drive it as per performance or fast on motorways the economy drops fast (same as IC!).
Loads of the infotainment is configurable but not the main driver screen that shows speed where there's lots of unnecessary visible space taken up with power/regen graphics.
When really pushing on round a corner that has undulations/potholes the traction/stability throws a bit of a wobble and you almost feel the rear hop. Strangely not mentioned in any reviews but it's definitely the electronics being over sensitive rather than the inherent chassis as it's not there when those systems are switched off. (whats the insurance situation if you spin it backwards through a hedge after turning safety systems off?!)
Charging speed is both charger power output and car-battery temperature dependent. So I have seen 220kw this summer (so quick the atmosphere is buzzing!), but often a 350kw charger only gets me 120-170kw. TBH that's fine and I'm coming to the conclusion anything 100 or more is the golden ticket for a trip top-up, to get you home. Mine doesn't have battery heating so this may be more of an issue in the winter but equally I've read people in Canada with battery heating, aren't seeing much benefit as the software isn't configured to help much.
All in a cracking car...and doesn't look like a wide mouth frog!
it takes a warm battery (normally a good chunk of fast driving beforehand on a warm day)
I thought some modern systems use some of the power from the charger to warm or cool they battery anyway?
I had a preview look at the new Renault Megane E-tech last week........Very impressed and it gets good reviews as well.
Teslas preheat the battery as you approach a supercharger. The I5 doesn’t have that yet but it is a rumoured software upgrade in the pipeline.
I thought some modern systems use some of the power from the charger to warm or cool they battery anyway?
Almost everything mid range or above on sale now does. If you've got smart mapping the car will start conditioning the battery for charging over the last ~10 minutes as you approach the charging location as well.
Overnight/home charging strategy on everything I've played with in the last 12-18 months starts by conditioning the battery to get to optimum (not fastest) speed as soon as possible. Then finishes off by conditioning the battery to its ready to drive state once it's at target SoC. (If you've set a departure time that is.)
Regarding batteries, Volkswagen have been involved with an organisation called QuantumScape who’ve been developing a solid-state Lithium metal battery, and they seem to have cracked the issues with dendrites growing on the cathode.
Simple hack to achieve unlimited EV range!
https://twitter.com/EricTingwall/status/1555224406447869953
I'm going to Aviemore from Cardiff in September, debating wether or not to take the EV. It's 513 miles. Assuming 4.6m/kWh and 55mpg, assuming a full battery leaving home and 45p/kWh on-road charging versus £1.85/l for diesel that makes it £86 vs £154 round trip. I'd arrive in Aviemore almost empty so I could perhaps save some money by slow charging it when I'm there. I'm assuming the use of Gridserve chargers but some of the ones on this list are Charge Place Scotland which appear to be a fair bit cheaper.
However, I can only do it in Zap Map by setting the minimum battery to 15% and the max to 90%, because I'd need enough to get from Dunblane/Stirling ish where the last rapid chargers seem to be to Aviemore on one charge. The car can only charge at 50kW max, the quoted 20-80% time is 45 mins, and I'd need three stops. I might end up spending 3hrs stopped, which turns 8hrs of driving into an 11hr day. Not to mention the risk that chargers aren't working or are busy.
But, if I were driving diesel I'd still stop, probably for 1.5-2hrs total to eat and pee. So it might end up being only an 1-1.5hrs slower. That said, in the diesel I might be tempted to exceed the speed limit a bit on the empty sections of the A74M which could save a bit of time. I'd not dare do that in the EV.
The diesel is a much nicer car to drive all day in and a lot bigger for putting camping gear in but that's a reasonable chunk of cash saved and the time difference isn't that great when you consider the stops that humans need rather than just the car.
@molgrips - there are Ionity and BP Pulse chargers at Perth and Tesla chargers on the pilot in Aviemore.
There are free 40kw chargers in Perth at Broxden and South Inch and Dunkeld.
Some charge place Scotland places are free - make sure you sign up for an account beforehand and get the card.
Have a look at A Better Route Planner as an alternative / accompanyment to ZapMap
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
edit - are you camping at Glenmore?
I haven't booked camping yet, I appreciate this may be very foolish.
Thanks for the link OTS - once I readjusted the very conservative default settings it's given me 4 stops but each one is shorter so the total time comes down to 10h37 mins.
I haven’t booked camping yet, I appreciate this may be very foolish.
There are 5 options in and around Aviemore. Glenmore is my first choice because of access to the loch and bike trails. Not cheap, but location can't be beaten IMHO.
Some charge place Scotland places are free – make sure you sign up for an account beforehand and get the card.
Very much this ^. ChargePlace Scotland chargers don't take contactless and the ChregePlace Scotland app is a bit flakey plus mobile signal at chargers in the highlands can be non-existant so best to get the RFID card. Chargers in Stirling District are still free so maybe plan to stop at one of the the two ChargePlace Scotland hubs in Stirling (Forthside has the most amenities), I'll be juicing up there when I drive ip to Aberdeen next weekend.
EV6 77kWh driver since march. I'll get anywhere from 280-350 miles depending on how I drive. recent "long" trips all from the Black Country include, Anglesey, Portsmouth, Malton North Yorkshire, Portsmouth, Hillingdon numerous times and Farnborough twice. I've quickly learned that the speed of charging is key. I've never had a problem charging immediately on arrival at the station and only once have had an issue with a charger not functioning and there were plenty of other chargers available on that occasion. I started out using ABRP and Zap map but in early may adopted Electric Juice app via Octopus and have not needed to bother with the others. I may break the other apps out for a trip to Edinburgh in September. I have seen speeds of 225kWh regularly however, in march 100-125kWh was more typical. 200 miles of additional range can be added in as little time as 10 minutes up to 30 minutes when colder. Often on the 300-350 mile round trip journeys I have to choose between cruising at 55-60mph and not bothering to charge or travelling 70-75mph and stopping once for 5 minutes or so. The availability of 100kWh+ chargers is tremendous on the trips I've taken. The cost of charging at stations seems comparable to fuel costs, if not slightly cheaper.
Concur with everything you say about Hyundai / Kia platform although I’ve not seen 300 miles on the guessometer so I must have a heavier right foot or maybe EV6 has bigger battery. Great cars.
I'll see 4.5mile/kWh+ when running local, 4.2mile/kWh running 55-60mph, 3.5-3.7mile/kWh when doing 70-75mph. I will often see 5+ around local roads. Battery size of 77.4kW.
Forgot to mention the vehicle to load is useful too, I often run the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher from it.
Forgot to add re octopus card, I’ve not used that as find it expensive no? chargemyhyundai gives me 25 per kWh on ionity for 12 months and Bonnet a pre pay card gives a good price for everything else.
Ps I5 looks better than EV6😉
I'm fortunate that I don't pay pay for work use so am not overly concerned at cost but, I agree 25p is a great rate, I typically see 50-65p. I do find the octopus/electric juice card plus app just makes the stopping and charging easier. It also includes non octopus chargers along with the price, availability etc. I also have the bonnet app but opened it once and realised there is so much less choice and information available. Often I don't plan a route as such, I'll stick Waze on and after 150 miles I'll check what's available and go from there. I've never got stuck yet.
Not so sure on the looks of the i5, I am old though (50), it's just a touch too modern for me. If I could have had an estate with decent charging speed I must likely would have selected that. 😂
I have not bothered with joining any schemes since we don't do a lot of long trips or many miles in general. It didn't seem worth subscribing to anything.
I have noticed that the new update in the Ioniq EV now has live charger information which is far better than it used to be. However you cannot plan an entire journey in the car. You can look at chargers along the route and it will let you plan your next stop, but not all of them.
I5 looks better than EV6
I agree, I think the EV6 looks ugly and snarly. Sorry 🙂
On the edge of possibly going electric. Tesla obviously wins from an aesthetic point of view but once you take into account insurance costs any money I would save on fuel is immediately gone. Considering the Peugeot E208 which is lovely to drive and has an acceptable if not amazing range and fast charging (30 mins 20-80%)
Weirdos, I really like the look of the EV6!
Might well be my next car but I will need to check if two bike boxes plus luggage will fit in the back, as it does with my A6 estate - any thought @maloney19710776?
Tesla obviously wins from an aesthetic point of view
You what? They're gopping.
once you take into account insurance costs any money I would save on fuel is immediately gone
Oh? What're you being quoted? I don't think our Ioniq EV is any more expensive to insure than our other cars.
Another thought - ours is being fixed, rather slowly by Wessex Garages, and they've given us an i10 which despite being petrol and MANUAL transmission, which is an absolute indignity 😉 it's rather fun. I might consider a small runaround for a next EV if one could be had more cheaply.
Sensible EV cars I think are not much of an issue insurance wise. Tesla Model 3 would double my insurance and Model S would be 3-4 times.
Anyone keen on the Sono Sion?
Simple, nice size, decent range, covered in solar. Got moss in it. I liked.
With back seats down it takes two bikes, depending on frame size I might need to take the front wheel out of one to make loading/unloading easier. I'm not precious about my bikes though, scratches and dents galore. Never tried a bike box. A recent airport run took three full sized cases in the boot comfortably.
EV6 is easily the best looking car out in the market place.
Remember 30 minutes to 80% in 5he Peugeot is pretty slow because the battery is tiny! I liked both the EV6 and I5, only chose the I5 as it was a lot cheaper fully loaded on my work scheme!
Teslas are a bit Fugl6, and their drivers are the e version of Mercedes Man! 3 times I’ve sat next to a Tesla charging to 100% at snails pace at a single charger.
Been doing some sums the last couple of days based on the E-Berlingo/E-Rifter - granted I'm not a 'typical' use case as I will do around 7000 miles a year, half of that within range of home charging (130-150 mile realistic range) and the other half on multiple long trips, for instance a typical year might be:
Scotland 1000 miles
Lakes 700 miles
S Wales 400 miles
N Wales 600 miles
Dartmoor 500 miles
At the fairly typical cost of 48p/kWh on gridserve public chargers, that works out at £21.60 for a full charge from 0-100% of the 45kwh usable battery, for 130 mile range that means 16.6p per mile.
As a comparison, my current diesel at £1.85 a litre fuel price and 50mpg would cost £21.87 for the same miles.
So half my miles would be at the same cost as I currently pay.
Home charging: @ 28p/kWh gives £12.60 for a full charge, if I'm doing more local driving it's going to be less motorway and more town so let's say 150 mile range. That gives 8.4p per mile.
3500 miles at 16.6p is £580
3500 miles at 8.4p is £294
£286 saving per year, or just under £24 a month. 🤨🙁 Whoophdehdoo!
I was considering a lease as you can get them around £400pm or just over - if I could save £100 pm on fuel I'd be paying the same as I have been for the last 3 years, but with another £12-15k in the bank. However, saving less than £30 a month on fuel is ridiculous, and that's at the current electricity prices, which are only going to go up soon...
I don't think the Berlingo being such an inefficient car with a small range helps - you can't go very from home before needing a charge.
Seriously considering picking up a cheapish diesel auto Berlingo this winter for about £8-10k, then sticking a camping pod boot jump kit in it. Still considering an electric version as they have some advantages when it comes to camping, but the lease costs would need to come down a bit.
Have you looked at a variable tariff like octopus go? That’s currently 7p /kWh off peak which makes a big difference in fuel costs. Balanced out with the higher day rate that is averaging 11p / kWh for us.
However, we seem to manage nearly 20k miles a year, mostly running around local very rural roads, so the difference is more significant.
Trying to work out where TallPaul lives. I'm guessing Newbury.
Have you looked at a variable tariff like octopus go? That’s currently 7p /kWh off peak which makes a big difference in fuel costs. Balanced out with the higher day rate that is averaging 11p / kWh for us.
However, we seem to manage nearly 20k miles a year, mostly running around local very rural roads, so the difference is more significant.
Yeah I'll have a look and confirm exactly what tariff we're on - that does make a big difference. Currently we're with Shell Energy.
Trying to work out where TallPaul lives. I’m guessing Newbury.
Ha, almost similar latitude but way further east - Kent. Which means anywhere in the UK with proper riding is a good few hours away.
Have you looked at a variable tariff like octopus go? That’s currently 7p /kWh off peak which makes a big difference in fuel costs. Balanced out with the higher day rate that is averaging 11p / kWh for us.
We went off Octopus Go and ended up on their standard. You have to be doing enough miles to offset the higher normal leccy cost with lower car fuel cost, and I don't think we are, at least not currently.
We went off Octopus Go and ended up on their standard. You have to be doing enough miles to offset the higher normal leccy cost with lower car fuel cost, and I don’t think we are, at least not currently.
Interesting, I see it's a fair bit more during the daytime.
On my mileage, obviously if I did more miles from and within 150 miles of home the cost savings would be greater, 7000 miles from home charging means closer to £60 a month saved.
Currently I go into the office once or twice a month, which is a 20 mile round trip. I barely do any shopping trips or local running about, my car might get driven 10 miles every couple of weeks. I've been riding more locally (and using the car less) recently due to the fuel prices, my 'local' riding spots are anything from a 70 mile to 100 mile round trip. If I had an EV I'd undoubtedly do this more often than I am currently because it'll be costing half as much. I'd also do more 1-2 day trips away, with a good chunk of the miles being on home charge or campsite hook up.
There's also earning interest in having the £12k or so sat in a 1yr fixed savings account (2.7% is easily accessible) which works out at another £27 a month/£324 a year. I'm in the process of putting away as much as I can for a house deposit so having another £12k to put towards that is a great help, and having just cleared the £300 a month loan for my current car, a lease at £3-400 a month doesn't phase me.
I'll have a proper look into the leccy tariff I'm on, and also the public charging subscription deals, things like ionity which is 69p/kWh with no sub (how much!!?) and 35p with a 12 month, £17 a month sub. But that still works out more expensive than gridserve at their flat 48p/kWh. I'd need to look at what chargers are at the locations I'd be stopping at when going either north or west.
Obviously there's also servicing costs to include, I've had a bad few months with my car with the cambelt at £650, on a diesel it's going to be a few hundred a year...
It all ads up, £25pm saved on servicing, £25 saved on fuel, £25 earned in interest, do a more 'normal' mileage (ie actually riding places not from my door) and that's £100 a month saved over my current car or a diesel Berlingo...