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I have Cross Climate 2s on the diesel estate. There is a little more high frequency hiss than my summer tyres which annoys me - I probably wouldn't notice it in my Hyundai because it's a cheaper car and there's more low frequency tyre noise. The handling is slightly worse - less firm and planted - but again I wouldn't notice in a less sporty car. I lose about 5% in MPG over the summer tyres, in similar conditions.
Still got half a mind to source some 17" alloys
Smaller wheels and bigger tyres seems to have a pretty big impact in range and efficiency. As I've said before, when I went from staggered 19s to non-staggered 18s (and correspondingly deeper tyres) on the diesel I gained about 12-15% efficiency. Admittedly the choice of tyre was quite different, but conversely that wasn't a big change in wheel size. My Hyundai is extremely efficient and I think a big reason for that is that it's not powerful, so they've fitted it with normal tyres (205/60/R16) instead of low profile nonsense.
I fitted CC2 to my ‘old’ style Ioniq arc the start of last winter. There is no measurable difference in the day to day or long term efficiency compared to the Primacy 4s they replaced. There is a massive difference in wet and cold weather grip. They may be a little bit noisier on a very smooth road, but with the radio on this isn’t noticeable.
the other benefit is the ability to get out of muddy fields and car parks. To be efficient the primacy had tread with smooth bands. In the slightest bit of mud these would just spin.
The primacy’s were also a big step up from the OEM Michelin energy savers.
As mentioned above, there may be a small range difference, but it’s not noticeable in my daily driving.
Thanks @molgrips; I'd pretty much decided that changing wheels was too much faff and now I'm back down the rabbit hole 😀
Switching from my 19" wheels to 17" ones (as fitted to the base model EV3) sounds simple at first, but the more I look into it the more confused I get.
It's a 7.0Jx17 wheel with a 48mm offset. So that seems simple enough. As long as I double check PCD and centre bore size, I've got lots of options for wheels, often costing no more than a premium tyre. But how does the weight compare with my original wheels and does that matter? What about aerodynamic performance? That has to matter, right? Seems as though I could easily drop a fair bit of cash and still end up with a wheel that gives lower range then my current 19s if I'm not careful.
Then there is the whole question of whether wheel diameter actually matters anyway. I've seen people claim that what matters is tyre width and that is the same (215) for the 17 and 19 inch wheels.
Kia claim the air model (on 17s) only has 8 miles more range than the GT line and 13 miles more than my GT line S model. But is that really the wheels or just the extra weight of the higher spec cars (with more kit). Note that the GT line and GT line-S models have the same wheels but there is still a 5 mile drop in range, so a fair bit must be weight.
Then, I'd have to get a new set of TPMS sensors. That's easy enough, but how does the car detect these? Will I need to get the sensors coded to vehicle somehow or does it just detect which sensor is on which wheel automatically?
There is also a reduction in circumference going from a 215/50/R19 to a 215/60/R17 tyre, but does that matter and do I have to recalibrate the car somehow? I'm guessing not as the difference is only 1% (2167mm vs 2189mm). Currently if I'm doing a (GPS) speed of 70mph the car will read 71mph (closer than any previous car). With the 17s on I guess that might increase to 72mph but still well within the legal requirement. There will presumably also be a 1% change in estimated efficiency and therefore range I guess. But, again, 1% is too small to care about.
So it's complicated and the more I think about it the more tempted I am to just stick CC2s on my existing 19" wheels and see what happens.
So it's complicated and the more I think about it the more tempted I am to just stick CC2s on my existing 19" wheels and see what happens.
Probably this!
The cost of new wheels would buy a lot of 'leccy!
So it's complicated and the more I think about it the more tempted I am to just stick CC2s on my existing 19" wheels and see what happens.
I've had a dedicated set of winter wheels with winter tyres for my previous 3 cars. I really can't be arsed with that anymore and so I'm going to stick some all seasons on the P4 as the temperature drops. I'll probably just store the tyres that come off and put them back on just as the car goes back depending on wear rates etc.
It's just a shame that it's not easy to spec the car with all seasons from new.
All seasons would just not quite cut it for me here - full winters for me. And the Niro will be our fist non 4wd since living here. It's not mega remote but 200m above sea level so we cop it when the towns at the coast are ok. And about 2 miles from the snow gates and if they get closed we become a non-priority dead end for snow ploughs and gritters so in the winter I do a lot of driving on untreated roads. Or it drops below -8 overnight and they might as well not be treated on the morning commute.
I bought some 2nd hand OEM E Niro wheels identical to the ones that came on it. I'm guessing 17 inch was just not flash enough for someone who upgraded soon after purchase. As I type, they are getting shod with Bridgestone Blizzak 6. Annoyingly they are a not a super common size and a slight national shortage of full winters in the UK this year meant I had to buy them through mytyres and they were shipped from Germany.
Blizzak 6 are rated at 70db - be interesting to see what different it makes.
Snow arrives Wednesday morning - I feel I might be doing some wheel changes in the dark tonight!
Probably this!
The cost of new wheels would buy a lot of 'leccy!
I did think about doing this - but a tyre change is about £60 now and you need to do that twice a year and I don't mind do it myself. I bought 4 pretty mint OEM wheels for just over twice that, so I'll be quids in soon.
For me going premium summers to full winters (2" smaller rim on this car) is about 2-3%, when i used to run studs it was more like 5% or a little over (also smaller rims). That's given the same/similar weather/conditions.
I've just ordered a set of Continental All Season Contact 2 for the Kona for fitting on Thursday.
Need to order some for my PS4 and daughters Mini. It's going to be an tyring month!
@rovepig talk to Kia. I know that Ioniq 5s are available with smaller wheels as a factory option, so they exist as a part and they can be obtained, this may be the case for Kia as well. But you're talking full set of wheels money not eBay money.
Then, I'd have to get a new set of TPMS sensors. That's easy enough, but how does the car detect these? Will I need to get the sensors coded to vehicle somehow or does it just detect which sensor is on which wheel automatically?
There is also a reduction in circumference going from a 215/50/R19 to a 215/60/R17 tyre, but does that matter and do I have to recalibrate the car somehow? I'm guessing not as the difference is only 1% (2167mm vs 2189mm). Currently if I'm doing a (GPS) speed of 70mph the car will read 71mph (closer than any previous car). With the 17s on I guess that might increase to 72mph but still well within the legal requirement. There will presumably also be a 1% change in estimated efficiency and therefore range I guess. But, again, 1% is too small to care about.
Changing wheels really isn't a faff at all...
And this website is really good for comparing your current wheel/tyre set up, and alternatives:
I've 2 sets of wheels for my Polestar 2 - the OE set with a staggered setup and All season tyres, and a summer/track set that's a square set up, slightly lower ET (so the wheels are more stanced), but same size and tyre diameter.
DrP
Changing wheels really isn't a faff at all...
I am a determined DIY mechanic, I've removed and refitted wheels dozens or hundreds of times, and I still think it's a faff!
It's a bit easier with two jacks though - lift one whole side at a time.
The new CrossClimate3 is apparently designed with the weight and rolling resistance needs of EVs in mind. That’s what I’d be going for if available in right size.
Not available in 215/50/R19 as far as I can tell. Although I think it is available in 215/60/R17 though. So, another reason to consider new wheels I guess 😀
With TPMS sensors, do you just stick a set in and the car works it out or is there some programming of the car required so it knows what sensor is on what wheel? I’m guessing the former as I think you can swap wheels front to back without issues, but just checking.
I've ordered a Jaecoo E5 today on Salary Sacrifice for £271 fully maintained. I'm quite excited...
Bloody hell.
Bloody hell.
Bloody hell good or bloody hell bad?
The TurboHearse costs me over £200pcm before any big bills come in and it needs 3 new tyres, two rear airbags, an EGR valve and possibly a turbo. I've also got concerns about the gearbox.
WBAC offered me £3430 for it this afternoon.
Depends on the car unfortunately.With TPMS sensors, do you just stick a set in and the car works it out or is there some programming of the car required so it knows what sensor is on what wheel? I’m guessing the former as I think you can swap wheels front to back without issues, but just checking.
If it actually has sensors in the valves, then they need to be coded to the car.
My P2, and some other cars, have a ‘passive’ TPMS, so it works out a theoretical pressure drop by comparing wheel rotation speed. Ergo, no sensors to reprogramme with each wheel swap.
@molgrips . 
This type of thing makes swapping wheels a lot easier if you don’t have studs.
DrP
More cars have passive tpms than actual pressure measuring versions as all the hardware required is already there (abs sensors). A little bit of software is a cheap value add.
@roverpig - I can confirm modern kias have specific tpms sensors inside the wheels - well attached to the valves inside the rims. My 4 spare wheels had them already......and once I get them actually fitted to the car I'll tell you if it just works! Info online was very vague.
If it does work, I'll happily share the part number with you - not cheap mind if you have to buy them. There are generic ones you can buy much cheaper but no idea if they work the same - I went with the logic of at least ones on OEM rims must be programmed to talk Kia if that's a thing.
I am fine with fitting the wheels. The faff is moving the car to the right spot, getting the jack out, chocking appropriately, fannying about with the jack adapters, in the case of the Merc it needs to go on blocks before the jack will go under it so they have to be set right, then it's clearing up the garage to get at the wheels, man-handling them about and then putting everything away again. Faff.
Really? Faff? Takes about 30 minutes to do the whole thing, start to finish. Even on my last car (which i couldn't get the jack under).
Will be doing mine and my neighbours tomorrow morning.
I lose about 5% in MPG over the summer tyres, in similar conditions.
But surely the car isn't used in similar conditions on the Summer tyres in warmer conditions, it'll start leaner, warm up quicker, be used on drier roads, less ancillary and light use... .
The best guestimate in the difference in fuel economy I could find on the Net for the difference between my Conti Summers (A) and full Winter Alpin 7 (C) was 3.4% - that's between an "eco" Summer tyre and one of the grippiest Winter tyres you can buy. German tests, Autobild or ADAC. However if you add the difference in the cost of fuel over the life of the tyres and the fact the full Winters only last half as long (higher wear rate and changing them earlier because Winters at the legal limit are pointless) I'll admit it's not a cheap choice.
I agree changing doesn't take long - an hour or so even using the opportunity to check brake pads, hoses, drive shafts, suspension parts.
Winter tires and tpms sensor solution round here.
Bloody hell good or bloody hell bad?
That sounds incredibly cheap. Let us know what the car's like.
But surely the car isn't used in similar conditions on the Summer tyres in warmer conditions
Yes, but it doesn't suddenly become winter the moment you swap tyres. Plus these tyres are all seasons so have been used in a variety of conditions at various times of the year. The summer wheels I bought off eBay need straightening so they came off about September time.
eBay/amazon...all over . i got a pair for about £11 and it makes changing the wheels a breeze as they don't fall off or need lining up!
Google "wheel bolt hanger"
DrP
That's given the same/similar weather/conditions.
But surely the car isn't used in similar conditions on the Summer tyres in warmer conditions, it'll start leaner, warm up quicker, be used on drier roads, less ancillary and light use... .I get about a month each end of the winter tyre season where i can use either, weather is broadly similar, so i can at least get 3-4000 km of comparison twice a year. The last 3 ICE cars i've had have been easy as they have all done almost exactly 1000 km when the fuel fill light comes on. And then taken a very consistent amount of fuel to refill. i probably even had greater than 75% of the time filling up at the same pump...
RE changing wheels.. I find the best thing is to rent a garage at silverstone race track.. lovely smooth floor, and I feel like an F1 pit crew...
Easy 😉
DrP
Thanks @convert. I’ve not found anything specific to the EV3 yet but found a few reports online of people swapping wheels on a Kia Soul and eNiro and both just picked up the new sensors automatically, so hopefully you’ll be fine.
Doubt there is really any difference between Kia sensors and generic ones (it’s an open standard I think) but manufacturers love to find ways of forcing you to use their parts so I’d also probably stump up for the “proper” ones to be on the safe side.
With TPMS sensors, do you just stick a set in and the car works it out or is there some programming of the car required so it knows what sensor is on what wheel?
I had a set of winter wheels for my Focus, which has TPMS sensors inside the wheel attached to the valves. The car has to be programmed to recognise the wheels every time they are swapped. The owners forum said you can a get a magnet on eBay that resets them, but it didn't work. I bought an electronic gadget, a bit like a TV remote, point it at the valves in turn and the car recognises them.
My winter wheels were aftermarket, maybe the Ford wheels have some extra support around the valve hole, because the weight of the TMPS sensors caused leaks around the valves. Every winter I would need to get at least one valve rebuilt, local tyre place charged £45 each. It was ironic that the only times I ever had the TPMS warn of low pressure were because of leaks caused by the TPMS. When the tyres needed changing I sold the wheels and went to CC2.
These look perfect. Right up to the bit where they say “it might not actually work and we take no responsibility if it doesn’t” 😀
@roverpig , knowing you like the detail, have you done a breakdown of likely costs, based on your mainly home cheap charging, of the likely increase in cost of buying and running CrossClimate 2 for their full life, say 20k miles, vs the cost and faff time of winter wheels and tyres, changing them over etc ?
I’d be surprised if the CCs would cost you any additional, plus I can’t imagine there would be more than a very small handful of occasions over the life of the tyres when they wouldn’t do the job well enough on your regular driving in the NE.
^^ with my EV3 on largely home charging, bar a few uk holidays where I use fast chargers, I reckon for my close to 15k miles per annum, my overall electricity charging costs are a bit under £500 a year.
When my original tyres need replacing in about a year, I’ll put on CrossClimates or equivalent, which I expect may cost around £150 overall more than new summer tyres for supply and fit. If they last me say 18 months, and I see a drop in efficiency of 10%, I’ll have paid an extra £75 max in electricity. It’s a no brainer for me, living in often icy and snowy hilly south lanarkshire, as I have not had a single driving day in the past 5 years when we couldn’t get out and about in a 2WD car with CrossClimates all round.
knowing you like the detail,
That's me 😀
have you done a breakdown of likely costs,
No, but I'm sure you are right. There is no way that I could justify "winter wheels" on a cost basis. It comes down to our old friend range though and a reluctance to do anything that compromises that.
Fitting CC2s to my 19" wheels will probably reduce range (compared to the current summer tyres on the same wheels). Getting an accurate number for that reduction is almost impossible, but going from an A rated tyre to a B rated one must affect range if the ratings have any value at all.
Decreasing wheel diameter apparently increases range though. Although, again, reliable numbers are almost impossible to find. So, theoretically, I could drop to 17" wheels, fit CC2s and still have pretty much the same range as summer tyres on my current 19" wheels.
Does any of this matter though? That's the question I can't answer given the lack of reliable data.
As you probably know, for those of us who can charge at home, I don't really think it makes sense to think of range as a number. It's more binary. You either have enough or you don't and if you have enough then more isn't really any better. I've done just over 10,000 miles in the EV3 now and never once had to stop because the car needed a charge. Not even close really. It has always got to wherever I've wanted to stop quite easily. I suspect I could lose 5% range and not even notice. It's not as though I've ever got close to the last 5%. But there is still that reluctance to do something that I know is going to reduce the range just in case it does tip me past that point where range suddenly starts to be an issue.
Unless my neighbours kibosh me with charger location (I'd need to lay a cable from my house to my garage, under their drive/on their property), I'll likely be ordering a Kia PV5 Cargo this week...
15k miles, 24 months, £3k deposit, £259pm....
If they were offering a tailgate (rather than barndoors) from launch I'd probably just be buying one out right at £33k OTR, but I don't want to commit to barn-doors until I know they work ok for me.
When they gave me the quote I actually asked 'how little?!' having just been to a VW dealer asking about a Buzz Cargo haha...
Well, just done my winter swap, went out at 10:17.
Cursed a few times as i forgot that both kids have had new furniture this summer so the corner of the garage where the wheels sit is under about 60 kilos of IKEAs finest cardboard boxes. So took me a while to get the bits together!
Was back in the house after fitting all four wheels, tyre pressure checked, wheel nuts tweaked (torque wrench @140Nm), in time for my 11 am meeting.
Just have to go and tidy up a bit. Will give the wheels a clean next time the jetwash comes out.
Weird double post deleted
But there is still that reluctance to do something that I know is going to reduce the range just in case it does tip me past that point where range suddenly starts to be an issue.
Range anxiety is real….. but it isn’t “will I be able to go 270 miles or 300?” That’s a problem that is easily solvable on the fly by stopping and charging
Proper range anxiety is “Will I make it up this steep hill with these tyres?” That’s a problem that, in the moment, will likely prove to be literally intractable.
That extra hundred yards that the all season tyres will buy you up that hill are potentially infinitely more valuable than the extra few miles that keeping summer tyres might buy you.
I’d trade 20 useless miles for a hundred crucial yards every single time.
Winter tires and tpms sensor solution round here.
That was my approach with the BMW.
In the 10 years I've had cars with tyre pressure sensors on, I've only had 1 puncture, but the sensors have triggered maybe 20 times - not a great false positive ratio that.
Fitting CC2s to my 19" wheels will probably reduce range (compared to the current summer tyres on the same wheels). Getting an accurate number for that reduction is almost impossible, but going from an A rated tyre to a B rated one must affect range if the ratings have any value at all.
I can tell you that CC2 made absolutely no difference at all compared to the EV-specific things my Model 3 came with. Full winter tyres have a small impact, but it's in the region 5% and I'm happy to accept that in exchange for being stuck properly to the road in cold weather.
I could lose 5% range and not even notice.
The range thing is weird - and as a home charger, oddly I've started not sweating the small stuff....because charging at home is so bloomin cheap!
For example - I've not taken my roof bars and boat cradles off since August even though I've only used the boat half a dozen times and the car is in use every day. I thought I'd be doing it every time I used the boat...and I probably should but.....it must be costing pennies where as on an ICE it would be costing pounds.
And.....if I nail it the last few miles to the house up the hill and the efficiency drops to <2.0 miles/kWh for the whole drive home, it hurts my pocket far less than doing the same in an ICE and going <20mpg.
I thought I was going to be a lot more worried about driving efficiency when I switched but oddly I've gone the other way. Different I guess when doing a longer trip and a bit of efficiency means I can do it in one charge (time and £££) rather than two.
That's handy. I swap the tyres on several cars a couple times a year for the last 20 years so I'm pretty good at it now.
The thing you absolutely must get right on a big EV is finding the correct jacking points, though normally it's easy to work out.
I've not taken my roof bars and boat cradles off since August
The noise of roof bars irritates me, so that's why I remove mine as soon as I can.
Different I guess when doing a longer trip and a bit of efficiency means I can do it in one charge (time and £££) rather than two
Perhaps but in that scenario remember you don't need a full half hour stop, just 5 mins is enough.