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I know what you mean. The one thing I’d change with my EV3 is that I wish it were smaller. But until solid state batteries become mainstream I think, if you want the range you have to accept the size. The Renault 5 is lovely but don’t think you’d get near to 220 in the winter. EV-database reckon 170 which might be a bit pessimistic for a UK winter but if you’ve got the long range Ionic 5 their estimate of 30 miles less range probably isn’t far off. Only you would know if that would actually be a problem though.
I'd be looking at a Kona or a Niro. Or an EV3
Or an id3. I love ours.
Our e-niro is plenty big enough for a family of four and since we bought it in February we're averaging 4.3 miles/kWh which would give 275 miles if I ran it completely flat. External dimensions are similar to a tall family hatch.
My EDF tariff from 2020 has just been pulled with no notice. Really pissed as it was cheap 2200-0700 and all weekend for all leccy.
It was by far the best set up for me. Two EVs and load up on dishwasher / dryer at the weekends.
I really do feel like all these shitty energy markets going forwards - (as more people use the smart tariffs and late night charging ) will now squeeze you into a tiny windows of opportunity to get cheap energy. As well as all manner of special opt-ins and bollocks.
No idea what to do next. Convenience and more value hours is more important to me than absolute low cost.
Also I don't really want a smart tariff as I'm on old dumb charger. I want to use my appliances across the board too.
Any suggestions but not octopus - can't stand their colourful fairground tactics and website approach. (I have them at work.)
The e-niro is a weird one as the efficiency is excellent. It’s a bit embarrassing for Kia really that their dedicated EV (EV3) generally has worse real-world efficiency than the modified ICE e-niro. So, although the range of an EV3 looks much better on paper, it’s not so different in practice.
If you are looking for the smallest (or at least the narrowest) new EV that can deliver 220 miles of range in winter then I think it is hard to look beyond the ID3 (or Cupra Born if you prefer the looks of that).
If you are looking at used cars then I reckon the e-niro is still a good shout. Can’t really see a lot of point to the niro-EV now that the EV3 is out though unless you specifically want something that is one year old.
Mate's got an e-niro.
Staggered how much it can do compared to similar vehicles. (320 summer)
I think it must be combination of weight and size. Boot is a bit too small for me though with all my kit.
There are loads of those coming on to the used market as there were loads put into the lease market 3/4 years ago. You can even lease them used.
Still awaiting my Grandland - looks like there's a recall which has delayed them - some battery software leasing to overheating cells.
I think it must be combination of weight and size. Boot is a bit too small for me though with all my kit.
I thought that, but there is a solution. Remove all the foam and plastic under trays, then make a new boot floor with some thick ply. Fit a new rubber mat and you then have 100 liters more space. I bought a frunk tray and keep the cables in there
Ours ex lease, bought it from a main dealer with 3.5 years warranty left.
@rone Hopefully somebody will be along soon with a more helpful answer soon, but I think you might struggle if you are going to rule out both Octopus and a smart charger.
The rationale for offering a cheap overnight tariff was that the electricity companies could pretty much guarantee that supply would exceed demand for pretty much all of the night. As more people charge batteries (EV and/or home storage) overnight that assumption isn't going to hold. The best answer (from their point of view) is smart chargers so they can manage the demand and match it to supply. Otherwise, as you say, the window where they can be sure that supply will exceed demand is just going to get smaller and smaller.
In general, I do think that, as EV drivers, we have to accept that most of the benefits that we've traditionally enjoyed (tax breaks to purchase, grants to install chargers, lower VED, exemptions for things like luxury-car tax and cheaper electricity) are only short term. At the risk of getting on to your favourite subject 😀 the revenue has to come from somewhere and electricity companies are only going to sell us their electrons on the cheap if nobody else wants them.
I'm hopeful (possibly naively so) that what will be left are cars that are less polluting, require less servicing and last longer. Potentially cheaper to buy too, although I'm sure they'll offset that by selling us more and more features. I very much doubt that they are going to be cheaper to run in the long run though.
Based on my experience that's in years rather than weeks, they are way cheaper in the long run.
In general, I do think that, as EV drivers, we have to accept that most of the benefits that we've traditionally enjoyed (tax breaks to purchase, grants to install chargers, lower VED, exemptions for things like luxury-car tax and cheaper electricity) are only short term.
For sure - we've had an EV for 8 years now and all that is coming to pass.
Glad I'm only in an 18month lease this time.
This country is too driven by profitable extraction at the expense of every other factor and lack of actual competition keeps prices roughly the same - just different distribution.
Thanks though!
(I really liked the initial simplicity of plugging my car in and that was it - just before bedtime or at the weekend ad hoc. Dead easy.)
Octopus website looks like someone was initially designing a fairground website mixed with a gameshow and forgot about the simple stuff. I'm not interested in paying for an expensive smart charger either.
... Spin the wheel. ****'s sake.
I think it must be combination of weight and size. Boot is a bit too small for me though with all my kit.
I thought that, but there is a solution. Remove all the foam and plastic under trays, then make a new boot floor with some thick ply. Fit a new rubber mat and you then have 100 liters more space. I bought a frunk tray and keep the cables in there
Ours ex lease, bought it from a main dealer with 3.5 years warranty left.
I will pass that on to my mate. Mind you he's too lazy to even drop the seats to get full capacity.
Can you give me an idea of what you paid please?
A frunk tray? Does that just retro fit under the bonnet?
I feel I was an early adopter with this stuff (and lpg before that) but I'm totally out of touch with current options.
Spin the wheel. ****'s sake
It's a simple & cheap customer engagement and retention device - I expect they compare attrition of people who "play" vs those who don't and see favourable results.
And if they can control your car's charging directly you don't need a smart charger., just plug it in and let them do their thing.
It's a simple & cheap customer engagement and retention device
Each to their own I just want the best value without that stuff.
Retention should be based on other factors built around easy to understand bills etc.
I don't like the idea of passing stuff to the consumer to manipulate the best price.
Not sure if I shared this little upgrade to my frunk on here. Apologies if it is a repeat but I can't see it. Still has room underneath for the inflation/sealant kit and another area in the boot for the cable. It does make the cable access a little tedious when I need them as I have a boot liner but I don't charge with them often.
Can you educate me on the whole battery-preconditioning malarky? The theory sounds good; get the battery up to optimum temperature while you are still plugged in at home to improve efficiency. But I've found a few issues in practice.
First, I've got the charger set up to get the car to my desired percentage by 7am. So, when I get up it has finished charging and if I start preconditioning the battery it's not going to start again. I guess I can just hit the boost button and feed in some more juice, but at my standard rate not the 7p rate I had overnight.
This morning the app told me the car would benefit from preconditioning the battery, so I turned this on ten minutes before I left home. It was still going when I left. After I'd been driving for ten minutes the average efficiency for the journey was 1.8 m/kWh (i.e. awful). It looked as though preconditioning was using around 5 kW of power. At that point the car stopped preconditioning but after another ten minutes (which was the end of my journey) it still only showed 2.8 m/kWh for the whole trip (well down on the 3.6-4.2 I've been getting recently).
So, based on today's trip it looks as though preconditioning would only be sensible for a journey of 30 minutes or more. Does that sound about right and does that equation change significantly when the temperature drops?
Can you give me an idea of what you paid please?
A frunk tray? Does that just retro fit under the bonnet?
For the car? About £17k but it's the top spec and from a Kia dealer so you can definitely go cheaper. The local car supermarket seemed to be full of ex taxis though.
The tray was this one: https://evsale.ie/shop/kia-e-niro-frunk/
It's expensive for what it is so I probably wouldn't bother unless you really need the space. You just remove the plastic cover and put this in its place.
The tray was this one:
Thanks. I keep looking at these for my Enyaq but the price keeps me from buying one!
I probably need to spend some time reading back through this thread as there's some great info from the bits I've scanned through.
I have an ageing Octavia estate that I'm thinking of replacing. I was just going to get something along similar lines having always been an EV sceptic. Anyway, just looking on Autotrader I got curious and was actually surprised to see that 2nd hand EV's aren't all that expensive and thinking about it, buying one probably makes sense.
We're a family of 4 (kids are 10 & 7) and we have the Octavia (2.0TDI VRS on 165K with rusty sills), a Polo 1.2 TSI and our old T4 Camper. in the family. I have a 100 mile round trip commute which is now on a daily basis thanks (no more hybrid working here thanks to a policy change). We have chargers at work but they're over subscribed but I could easily get a couple of days commute off a charge if necessary so can just charge at home as we have a decent drive. We're already on an Octopus tariff so could swap that to an EV tariff.
I really like the look of the Cupra Born, it looks loads nicer than the ID3. What are they like to live with? Is it much bigger inside than a Polo for example? With having a camper I don't think I really need an estate and if the need arises I guess we can hire a larger ICE car occasionally (T4 is very slow!). I also like the look of the Kia EV6 and the Ioniq 5. Polestars always look nice too.
Is anyone else doing a similar commute using an EV? What kind of prices are home charger installations as I guess I'd have to factor that in too.
I'm sure the info I'm looking for is in this thread and more so located in various corners of the internet but writing this out helps me rationalise my thoughts a little.
Thanks for reading.
It I was doing a daily 100 mile commute I would use an EV.
As for the cost of a home charger just add around £1000 it to the cost of the car or find a car that is £1000 cheaper than the one you want?!
It'll probably pay for itself in 6 months anyway.
roverpig, preconditioning makes minimal difference when charging at home. Where it is good is if you are going to use rapid charging and you get in on for 15 mins or so in advance of plugging in, then the battery is nice and warm and ready to charge up quickly.
I haven’t played with it in the EV3 yet, in my i4, if on a long drive and using the nav to route to available and fast chargers it would automatically start preconditioning on the way there to get it all ready.
2.5 hr drive today from South Lanarkshire to Northumberland, auto everything on most of the time, air, steering, cruise, and set at 70 or 60mph. 3.7mi/kWh. 2 of us in front, dog and road bike in back seats and across behind the back seat (wheels off in bags). Boot completely full. Very easy and relaxed journey. Left with 100%, arrived with 58%, will find a charger in a few days.
Thanks @iainc I think I was misunderstanding what the app was telling me and maybe using the wrong term too. I wasn’t talking about preconditioning ahead of charging. I’m ok with that I think. Either set a charger as a destination in the satnav or turn it on manually around half an hour before charging. No, I was talking about warming the battery up before you start driving to improve efficiency. I thought that was a thing but a bit more searching suggests it’s something you’d only consider if it was properly cold.
Those efficiency numbers sound good to me. Not sure I’m quite hitting that on a run with decent amounts of 70mph driving, but it is fairly hilly round here and I’m sure I’ve still got a lot to learn about how to drive efficiently.
I really like the look of the Cupra Born, it looks loads nicer than the ID3. What are they like to live with? Is it much bigger inside than a Polo for example? With having a camper I don't think I really need an estate and if the need arises I guess we can hire a larger ICE car occasionally (T4 is very slow!). I also like the look of the Kia EV6 and the Ioniq 5. Polestars always look nice too.
had my Born for over a year now and really happy with it. I agree it looks better than the ID3 and I found the deals Cupra were offering made it cheaper too (I got a service pack incl tyres/pads) 0% and a generous trade in/dealer contribution that made it nearly 20% a month cheaper than the VW. My only gripes are, I do miss my roofbars but I can get the bikes in the back ok with the seats down and there is not great head room in the back for 6ft+ people (ie my son). Any specific questions just shout.
I was talking about warming the battery up before you start driving to improve efficiency. I thought that was a thing but a bit more searching suggests it’s something you’d only consider if it was properly cold.
ah, got you. I think for normal UK conditions it’s marginal gains at best, and assuming you are home charging on a cheap tariff probably not much of a consideration IMO.
These frunk things - I'm interested, the space in the boot in my Kona is the one compromise I could do with improving.
I had a look earlier and the 'engine cover' just lifts off with some sort of popper type buttons, does the frunk just push down onto them in place? And if you fill it with heavier stuff like charging cables or jacks and inflator kits, those buttons hold it from sliding around?
I had a look earlier and the 'engine cover' just lifts off with some sort of popper type buttons, does the frunk just push down onto them in place? And if you fill it with heavier stuff like charging cables or jacks and inflator kits, those buttons hold it from sliding around?
That's how it works on my car. I assume the Kona would be the same.
I think for normal UK conditions it’s marginal gains at best, and assuming you are home charging on a cheap tariff probably not much of a consideration IMO.
Yes, I think I was just misunderstanding the Kia app. It said I should precondition the battery but I guess it meant “if you want to charge” not “before you drive the car”. It’s a bit odd that the app was saying that when the car was sat on my drive having just been charged, but to be be fair, I only noticed it because I was digging into the menus and I guess that all it was doing was reporting the temperature of the battery in what it thought was a helpful way.
Warming the battery up before going on a long trip could theoretically be useful on a very cold day I guess but probably only at temperatures we never really get to in the UK.
@Paul-B As others have said, for a 100mile daily commute where you can charge at home, an EV makes a lot of sense.
If you like the look of the Born then I reckon it’s a good choice. There are a few issues with the older model but I don’t think any of them are deal-breakers. Some people find that they accidentally press the haptic buttons on the steering wheel, which can be annoying. But it seems to depend on how you hold the wheel. I’m a ten-to-two driver and didn’t find it an issue at all. I think it’s mainly the quarter-to-three drivers who struggle. The infotainment system can be a bit buggy and laggy at times (better on the new models) but it’s a minor issue. The fact that the temperature controls aren’t backlit (so you can’t see them at night) is a bit daft, but a friend who has owned an ID3 for four years tells me that you soon learn where they are anyway.
For me the styling wasn’t quite to my taste (I’m a bit old for bucket seats) and more importantly, we still get snow up here so the low clearance and RWD were a bit of a concern. But that’s all minor and specific to me. It was a good car I thought.
For a home charger I’d agree that a budget of around £1,000 sounds about right. I paid £1,129 recently but that was not the cheapest charger and I could have got it just under the grand with a different charger. There are some grants depending on where you live but these are tending to be phased out now. Some dealers may also offer you a “cheap” charger when you buy the car. That might be a good option but just make sure that the charger they are offering will really work with the energy tariff that you want to use. Some of the cheaper “EV tariffs” (like intelligent octopus or ovo charge anytime) require specific chargers or specific makes of car to work.
@roverpig thanks for the reply. I need to just go and take a few test drives I think and see what I get along with. The sums certainly look attractive especially as the primary usage is commuting and lighter family duties.
My commute when I go into he office is 120 mile round trip, and an EV is superb for it, it costs about £2.20 in electricity per day Vs about £20 on the Dies. , it's really nice never having to charge as every morning it's easy to go (in the Diesel then I'd have to stop in at a fuel station once or twice a week, which doesn't sound like much but from pulling off the route to getting back on is is about 15 mins and it's hassle. Also in the winter it is lovely walking out to a warm car with no ice to scrape off the windscreen (same in hot summer days with the Aircon, no more getting into an oven)
I need to just go and take a few test drives I think and see what I get along with.
Sounds like a good plan 😀 Although, if you are coming from an older ICE car (as I was) be aware that you might find the test drives to be of limited value. It might just be me, but I found the difference going from an older manual ICE car to any modern EV was so large that I couldn’t really appreciate the subtle difference between them on a test drive. There is also so much tech and features that I felt I needed to live with to really decide on.
Things like how reliable the self steering is in real world situations can make a big difference in the long run but is hard to test on a test drive. Similarly which beeps and bongs can be turned off permanently and which need disabling on each journey (and how you do that) might matter to you more after a few weeks/months than you think. How reliable the app connection is (or isn’t) might be a big deal if you can’t turn on the climate remotely on a cold morning, but you won’t get that from a test drive. Even things like all the different regen modes that are available can take a while to test and work out which ones suit you in which situations.
In the end I decided that I just needed to pick an option that looked like it would work on paper and live with it for a while.
That's good point, I guess you can almost relate it to riding an old 26" hardtail and switching to a 29" Enduro e-bike lol.
I guess the thing that surprised me is that a 2nd hand EV's are a lot cheaper than I thought. I was thinking of spending around £15K on a new 2nd hand ICE car when in fact I could put a bit extra in and switch to an EV instead. I suppose the risk there is the battery health more than anything?
Plenty of stuff to go wrong on an EV beyond the battery. Plenty to go wrong on a combustion car.
I'd be interested if there are any good stats on cost/probability of failures on comparable ice vs electric cars.
I think we are still in early adoption as far as electric cars goes, where there is supposedly higher likelihood of failures... but then it's two very well known technologies joined together. The car bit; suspension, steering, control systems, etc. And then we've had electric motors for a long time including on other vehicles like trains so there's a lot of past history. Put together and teething problems are soon sorted.
So that leaves batteries and charging that is the 'new' technology, and as per much of the discussion on this thread the tech is still evolving but isn't as new as you might think. We have quite a few scientists where I work who are working on battery tech and without being overly detailed, talking to one, they said reckon usable lifespan on even current batteries is giving mileages several times more than the typical life of a car.
Quick calc on mine, I've seen people talk about 1000-1500 cycles, poss understated. Battery gives me 240 miles approx, so even if I charge 70% each time (10-80 or 20-90) that is somewhere around 170-250k miles. Top end of the calc, say 90% charge x 1500 cycles is 325,000 approx. And the battery doesn't just cark at 1500 cycles, just becomes less good. Tldr, after talking to real expertise I'm not concerned that my car will outlast the battery.
Of course there is, I had a £1700 bill for a high pressure fuel pump failure on my Octavia about 5 years ago for example. The battery seems to be a big expensive lump if something goes bad.
You're right, it would be very interesting to see some stats.
There's also servicing costs, I imagine they're lower on an EV?
My 5yr old ioniq seems to be in good health. Up to 53000 miles and had no problems at the last MOT.
I did a 140 mile trip in it yesterday 40% motorway speeds and 60% fast hilly A roads. 5.3miles/KW. I think the battery and motor are working ok.
At the moment the car is providing hassle free cheap motoring compared to the diesel Skoda I had before.
I enjoy the trips out in it more than my previous cars.
Quick report on my return journey with my new (to me) EV.
So not wanted to do things by halves, the first time I'd every driven any electric car were the first metres as I left the dealership in Gravesend (doors locked - I'm not stupid!) and headed into city centre London to stay with my sister....in Friday evening rush hour. Not driven outside of the Highlands of Scotland in 5 years - turns out it busier in London. Then at 5am I started a 620mile return journey, having never charger an EV before. 5 charges on the way home, though the last one was to make sure it was pretty full as the home charger is not installed yet. With a bit of road works fun that's 15 hours door to door.
Some learnings
1. I like it. The Niro is what I expected - a car for people not into cars. It is perfectly good at pretty much everything, very comfortable, seemingly well made but a slightly forgettable A-B machine. I've had some very interesting little hot hatches over the years and the current Audi TTS - but this will do the job just fine.
2. 15 hours of playing with buttons and you get to know a car pretty well. Yes it bings and bongs a bit and there's stuff I'd prefer to stay as I last used them that come on again when you start up, but it's all very livable with.
3. Some modern car stuff is good! Adaptive cruise control in particular but also the motorway lane assist and blind spot warnings.
4. I'm not that enamoured with the Kia's (well the version in the Niro anyway) long distance navigation. Yes, it gives you route alternatives but it doesn't give you charge point alternatives. Yes, you can get close to the suggested charge point and search for alternatives but that means stopping the big picture long distance destination and starting again. I wish it gave you 3 or 4 options for each and gave you a bit more info about what is at them. I used the first two it suggested which tuned out to be in MacDonald's car parks in the middle on nowhere - breakfast menu at a Maccy D for a vegan = black coffee and a hash brown - that's it. It also doesn't know about half the brands and the Tesla public chargers. And you don't seem to be able to point on the map and ask for chargers near there - it just gives you a list start from where you are right now. So after 300 miles I took over and told it the postcode of the next charger an wen from there.
5. Zapmap is not that much better- yes the charging station searching is much better but there is no route option...unless it's hidden behind the the subscription version. I need to find out.
6. Maybe it's my thrifty genes coming through but - the difference between the in app price for charging and the contactless can be quite a lot - like 10p/KWh. Over a journey that length that mounts up. Expensive too, 83p seems to be about default for rapid chargers on or near trunk roads. Tesla public chargers massively cheaper though at 52p - though dynamic, could be more, could be less.
7. Tesla public chargers - or the 2 I used are not that easy to use in a non tesla. With the short charge cable and in one case rubber wheel stops bolted into the tarmac it was very hard to get the Niro's front mounted charge point close enough to use. A one station I had to straddle two bays, at the other I had to park at a comical diagonal angle.
8. My charge rates were a bit disappointing. 20-80% saw me at 45kw. I think I once saw 51kw for a minute or so. The Niro is a slow charging car, topping out at aound 77kw, but on a warm day I was kind of hoping to get closer to that for at least some of the time.
9. There seems to be quite a bit of faffing around charge stations. The bays seems rather narrow and in tricky corners of carparks, and there was a lot of user error/faffing with apps and contactless not working for them.
10. Getting used to the different efficiency to an ICE. The miles/kwh dropping at (slow) motorways speeds but being surprisingly frugal on the sort of rural roads that an ICE struggles with. Regen braking is awesome and basically turns my local roads which twist and turn, but not like a Devon, lane into one pedal driving.
But overall - really please (so far) I've made the leap to EV.
Nice one @convert. None of this tedious research; just jump in and work it out as you go along 😀
Not sure if it is the same on the niro, but on the EV3 you can set up the map in a sort of split screen mode where you have a list of the chargers along your route (with live availability data) in one window with the map in the other. Not tried it in anger yet, but it looks like a decent option if you want to change where you charge.
Did (or can) you precondition the battery before getting to the charger? That seems to make a big difference to the charging speed.
You mention the Tesla chargers, but what other chargers did you use and how were they? I'm going to be doing the M74/M6 leg from time to time, so handy to know what is good and what is not. For the next trip from Aberdeenshire to the Lakes I was looking a BP Pulse in Dundee then Ionity at Gretna, but no idea if that's a good choice.
I think you are right; the actual driving bit is fine (if not particularly exciting) but the charging infrastructure still seems to require a bit of specialist knowledge if you want it all to go smoothly. It reminds me a bit of the 70s where every trip to visit friends or relatives would start with a discussion of which way you came and where you stopped 😀
on the EV3 you can set up the map in a sort of split screen mode where you have a list of the chargers along your route (with live availability data) in one window with the map in the other.
aha, every day is a school day 🤪 I must work out how to do that in mine !
I'm going to be doing the M74/M6 leg from time to time, so handy to know what is good and what is not. For the next trip from Aberdeenshire to the Lakes I was looking a BP Pulse in Dundee then Ionity at Gretna, but no idea if that's a good choice.
The Tesla chargers at Gretna Outlet Village are better or the Ionity at the Starbucks in Carlisle. The Gretna services ones are always busy.
The Fastned ones at Hamilton are also really good. Never had to wait for a charger at any of them
I wish it gave you 3 or 4 options for each and gave you a bit more info about what is at them.
There have been updates to the satnav and some of the Kia/Hyundai have this feature or something similar but I'm not sure which ones. Part of it is familiarity too - in the UK our options for long trips are likely to see us on the same few motorways regularly so you get to know what's available. If we're going to Scotland for example we're on the M6/M74 so we're stopping at the Starbucks on the industrial estate in Carlisle which has 8 decent chargers (and a seagull nesting in the drive through).
I'm also fairly sure that you can search for charging stations around a point, but it may not be something you can do easily whilst driving. But then, maybe that's what lane assistance is for... You can also filter the charging point search.
Did (or can) you precondition the battery before getting to the charger? That seems to make a big difference to the charging speed.
I 'think' you can....but it's not very clear. There is battery preconditioning hidden deep in a menu but it's simple on/off - it's not clear if when that's on it's permanently preconditioning or if when you select it it preconditions when it knows its nearing a charge point on the the sat nav. First feels very wasteful, second requires you to be using the built in nav and have programmed a charger as your next stop. I'll see if there is a firmware update available for the car and see if that improves it. Regardless - it was 20 degree - I kind of thought the batteries would have been at a good state for charging anyway.
what other chargers did you use and how were they?
I think the 2 were Instavolts attached to Maccy D's and the other was a Gridserve.
But I agree with Molgrips - I think after a time you'll probably just have your habitual tried and tested favourites for your repeat journeys. I guess the snag might come if doing the same journey at Christmas at -10 and your range has fallen off a cliff and you need to alter plans and everything gets out of sync.
it's not clear if when that's on it's permanently preconditioning or if when you select it it preconditions when it knows its nearing a charge point on the the sat nav.
I assume it's the same as the EV3. In which case, it will precondition the battery if you have a charger set as a stop (and you have enough battery left to do the preconditioning and still reach the charger) or you can just turn it on manually when you are around 30 minutes from where you intend to stop. In that case it just brings the battery up to the optimal temperature for charging and then turns itself off.
The Tesla chargers at Gretna Outlet Village are better or the Ionity at the Starbucks in Carlisle. The Gretna services ones are always busy.
The Fastned ones at Hamilton are also really good. Never had to wait for a charger at any of them
Thanks @perchypanther that's useful to know.
I think after a time you'll probably just have your habitual tried and tested favourites for your repeat journeys. I guess the snag might come if doing the same journey at Christmas at -10 and your range has fallen off a cliff and you need to alter plans and everything gets out of sync.
Yes, I guess you might end up with a default set of stops for summer and a different set for winter. What fun 😀
Does anybody use ABRP as a satnav in the car (through CarPlay or AA)?