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I think that there is an in-built perception from ICE users that you have to refill / recharge every X miles, as that's the way ICE refueling works. People are so conditioned to this it's hard to get out of the mindset. The reality of course though is that in an EV you refill every night so it's only when doing an unusually long journey you have to use public chargers. And even in those case you don't usually recharge to "full" again, you just put in the bare minimum to get back home again.
How long does it take to find a fuel station, refill and pay for a fill up on an ice car? 10-15mins?
My EV car does that every night whilst i am asleep for 7p/kw. Unless i have to fill up when i am out and about (about 4 times now since October 2024) then i am saving 15mins every time you guys refuel. Since October i reckon i have spent 2 hours in total at recharging stations, waiting for the recharge.
Can Ice car drivers honestly say they have spent less than 2 hours in the last 4 months refuelling? Even at 10 mins per refill thats 12 visits to the fuel station.
Can Ice car drivers honestly say they have spent less than 2 hours in the last 4 months refuelling? Even at 10 mins per refill thats 12 visits to the fuel station.
The average car mileage in the UK is about 540 miles a month, so yeah, most people probably spend 5 mins a month at petrol stations. I probably refill once a month ish. Sometimes less.
250/300 miles, at speed is, for me in the UK, about the sweet spot for an EV range for a family car. With that I can get to almost anywhere I want in the UK with a 1-40 min stop which I can do almost anywhere on the journey and I can do lots of trips where I can go and come back without having to recharge at all or can charge overnight if staying there. This is the flexible sweet spot for me. For our second car (we live in the middle of nowhere), but the one which will do the most mileage it doesn't matter that much, but we manage just fine with an i3 with a real world winter range of 150mi and summer range over 180mi. We charge once per week. The previous i3 had around 110-130 miles and meant we needed to charge more than once per week and were always fully charging and deep discharing the battery. This little increase makes a difference to us. Combined, we do around 9000 miles a year of which 7500 is in the EV and the other 1500 is in the DJer.
If you're only refuelling once a month , then how often would you recharge an EV. I charge at home, and only fast charge when I'm on longer trips or overnighters. But I've been doing that a while , and now it feels weird to drive an ICE with fast refuelling the only plus point.
Roverpig - happy with my Kia, and very glad I didn't get a Tesla. I like the display and controls as well
FWIW it's obvious Musk doesn't care about the cost of 2nd hand Teslas as the biggest downwards pressure on prices is Teslas continual price dropping (plus, in the UK market the huge number of lease cars in a market ring fenced by driving on the L hand side of the road)
The range isn't quite there yet IMO.
Most mid-range to expensive EVs have a WLTP of around 300 miles in optimal conditions. Bearing in mind most people will want to charge when they have 20% battery left thats actually a 'perfect' range of 240. Then factor in that most WLTP ranges are not achievable at motorway speeds or in bad traffic, in rain, in the cold or fully loaded with 4 people and luggage etc etc and you get a reliable max of around 150 before you start looking for a charger. That's just not quite enough unless as someone mentioned earlier there is a working and vacant 150-200kw charger at every 'petrol' station.
I really want to extend my EV ownership from my little local journey/commuter only Leaf with its 50-60 mile range but I'm afraid I'm one of these awkward people that does drive hundreds of miles in one go reasonably often and also being a cyclist and a kayaker, quite often with stuff on the roof.
If you could get a reliable 250-275 miles in any conditions at motorway speeds out of 80% of the battery then that would be as much as I'd ever need
If you could get a reliable 250-275 miles in any conditions at motorway speeds out of 80% of the battery then that would be as much as I’d ever need
That exists in a Polestar 2 MY23 long range onwards.
To me the range issue is about adding power away from home as it’s so damn expensive compared to home charging. It’s the same as going to the motorway services and being charged 15x more for a litre of petrol. I charge at home for 5p a kWh on Tomato and have a 150 mile commute twice a week. It’s ridiculously cheap compared to petrol or diesel for my use case.
@alchiltern I’ve had an ID7 tourer as company car since beginning of October. As a family (2 kids and a dog) car it’s fantastic. Very comfy and boat loads of space. Drove to Cheshire to Norwich, then to Chelmsford then Norwich and back home over Christmas which is the most driving it’s done and it was great. Not as engaging to drive as my old Mazda 6 but very pleasant and easy. Only comment is that I kinda assumed a winter range of getting on for 300 miles (given wltp of 370ish) but it’s more like 220-230 or so. Not really a problem to be honest.
The reality of course though is that in an EV you refill every night so it’s only when doing an unusually long journey you have to use public chargers
Unless you have a long daily commute I thought the advice was don't charge like that as keeping the battery in a high state of charge is what causes the most degradation? I have home charging but a short commute so charge mine once every 7-10 days.
Cheers @BMD, sounds good and that's what I figured on the range. Unlikely we'd ever want to drive for more than 200 odd miles without stopping.
Unless you have a long daily commute I thought the advice was don’t charge like that as keeping the battery in a high state of charge is what causes the most degradation? I have home charging but a short commute so charge mine once every 7-10 days.
Think it should really say "refill to a level".
Most of those i know with EVs top up with 20-25% each night. Going from 40 to 60 ish.
Unless you have a long daily commute I thought the advice was don’t charge like that as keeping the battery in a high state of charge is what causes the most degradation?
the advice for most (but not all - some battery chemistries are fine with being at 100%) ev's is to charge to a max of 80% on a day to day basis and only charge to 100% if you know you're going to need the full range - and if you do charge to 100% - dont leave it sat at 100% for days on end. but RTFM as it will state how to best keep the battery healthy.
For most people who lease a car there is not much incentive to not charge to 100% every time as they're just going to give the car back in 2/3/4 years time and dont care about long term battery health.
We own our EV (and plan to keep for 6-8 years) - so have an interest in keeping the battery in good health - but we bought it secondhand so have no idea how the previous owner treated it - other than I know the battery was at about 98% health when we got it at 20000 miles, and still seems the same now at 32000 miles a year later.
We tend to let ours run down to 20-30%, and then recharge to 80% as we have quite a regular routine, but if I didnt know from one day to the next whether I was going to need to drive a long distance the next day, then I'd have no problem charging to 80% on a daily basis . for long trips (probably once per month) However I'm totally fine with running it down to 1or 2% and charging to 100% if needs must - and like I say so far I havent noticed any battery degradation - determined by seeing how many KWH the charger puts in when recharging
The Hyundai manual Ioniq 5 actually recommends charging to 100% (slowly) every month to calibrate the battery management software or rebalance the cells I believe.
I'm not convinced it makes any difference to longevity whether you charge a battery up to 80% or 100% - this goes for any modern battery whether its a phone, a laptop or a car UNLESS you plan to leave it unused. Leaving a battery fully charged is the worse thing you can do for its health. Batteries like to be cycled so when buying a secondhand EV I reckon one that has been regularly used will have a better battery than one that has been sat idle 6 days out of 7.
Only comment is that I kinda assumed a winter range of getting on for 300 miles (given wltp of 370ish) but it’s more like 220-230 or so. Not really a problem to be honest.
They've got to come up with a more representative test for Europe, that is shit. Probably a big part of the 'range anxiety' issue.
Polestar specify/suggest charging to 90% to ‘maintain battery health’..but of course going to 1000% when needed for long journeys..
I’m always torn between plugging in every night (from, say 70 -> 90%) or leaving it for a few days, and plugging in twice a week or so.
Benefits of plugging in are that when the car charges in the early evening, the whole house gets a cheap ‘leccy rate! Plus..when the p2 is >70% SOC, it unlocks the full performance mode!!!
DrP
EDIT - YUP…ONE THOUSAND PERCENT BATTERY………
I work from home much of the time, so my i4 tends to do a fairly low mileage, daily 50 miles perhaps on average, and it rarely sits for more than a day without use. I charge when it goes below 60% and charge it to 100%, on the basis it won't sit full for long. EV batteries have built in buffers so 100% is only actually something like 96% of the theoretical battery capacity, which I understand is done to allow charging to 'full' without causing battery degradation with time.
Unless you have a long daily commute I thought the advice was don’t charge like that as keeping the battery in a high state of charge is what causes the most degradation? I have home charging but a short commute so charge mine once every 7-10 days.
Plug it in every night and cap the charge to 80%, which is fine. Or 70% if you're worried. 50-70% is probably the best place to keep it for longevity. And you can set it to defrost each morning. Octopus ask you to do this, because if your car only needs a few kWh they can use cheap renewable power most optimally - this means that the fixed 7p is possible. The more people who plug in every night the cheaper that rate might get, and the lower your CO2 would be.
you get a reliable max of around 150 before you start looking for a charger. That’s just not quite enough
Of course it is. Don't make me relate my Scotland trip again.
Our 2019 Tesla Model 3P will clock up around 18000 miles over 12 months, including a jaunt across France. It’s been absolutely faultless and excepting a slightly low ride height, there is nothing I would want to change about it or the ownership experience. It’s the first car I can say that about, and it cost half the price of some of our past Audi offerings. I have good friends with newer M3Ps and long range models, and their experiences have been the same. I honestly don’t recognise the comments about Tesla issues, personally I would cross out Tesla and insert Audi / BMW, but that’s just our personal experience. 🙂
And I couldn’t think of anything more horrifying than going back to a petrol or hybrid. We enjoy the EV life far too much!
Spoke to a Tusker rep yesterday and used EVs will be imminently available through our company scheme. I don’t know what make models etc, but really quite intrigued by it.
anyone here using the tusker scheme ? I’m sure there must be posts on it, but this thread is miles long now, I’m not trawling back through 200 pages.
Presumably a used EV through Tusker will have the same benefits as new.
I always charge to 100% for a couple of reasons;
- I am a cheapskate and can charge for free at work so maximize value by grabbing every electron I can get out of my employer on the 2 days a week I am on site.
- I only have room for one car on our drive and prefer to use it for our ICE car (for a variety of boring reasons), so the EV sits on the road unless it actually needs a charge. Therefore I squeeze in as much juice in the EV as possible when it is on the drive.
In the 16 months I've owned it I've not detected a jot of battery degradation. Car was just under 3 yrs old when I bought it. On the 'plus' side of battery care, I've only done about 30 mins of rapid DC charging in total. To be honest I'd almost say, unless a cell actually fails, battery degradation is not really a thing anymore.
With the cold snap in North America people are reporting serious range drops with temps of -30C and so on. I wonder if manufacturers could concentrate on insulation for the cabin to save on heating requirements, and insulation for the battery to help it keep warmth in?
Canoo EV startup now gone pop and filed for bankruptcy - had money struggles for a while and furloughed lots of staff in the last few months. Real shame as it looked a very interesting vehicle with some impressive safety performance.
Shame about canoo. I read about their demise a few days ago. There is a video of a royal mail post canoo on the web as well.
As for EV battery range, maybe I would like a bigger battery (currently 40kwh Ioniq). I'd probably prefer an efficient underpowered fast charging car with decent load carrying capability. Than a car with a big battery, high performance and poor efficiency.
I did the nc500 in the Ioniq and it went well. Sure I spent more time charging the car than I would of filling my old car with diesel and fuel costs came in at around the same as diesel.
Since September then I've only fast charged once at a cost of £8 and that was too much added electricity to cover a 110 mile trip home which ended up with 35 miles left in the battery.
I won't be returning to an ice car unless something drastic happens and I need an emergency car. I still ride a petrol scooter but even that might be swapped out for an electric scooter at some point.
Finally got access to my company portal for car today. Looks like probably going to be going for the ID7 Tourer GTX, with heat pump, towball and fancy sunroof. There’s some other slightly sexier cars (EQE SUV, Q6) but they cost more, less range, less space, less kit. Seems a bit of a no brainer to replace my A6
Huh? That’s about 18,000 miles a year! Hardly low mileage.
think I was having brain fog ! It’s more like 25 - 30 miles on average..
Not on the Tusker scheme but on ECS, which also has used EV's. Don't see them as a great deal when I've seen the pricing delta compared to new. ECS seems to have quite big shifts on specific cars. So if you're not wedded to a specific car then it can be sensible to wait. Polestar 4 is now only 10% more than a PS2, whereas it was 50% more last year.
Thanks @RichPenny will post up here how they compare when it’s on the portal.
I’m in no rush, will take a closer look at the cars and options. Probably means I need or read back over this thread to see what’s ideal to get as options on an EV.
Dumb question about charging cables. Is there any downside to going longer?
I'm about to get a home charger installed. We have a narrow driveway beside the house that'll take 3 cars nose to tail and have the choice of 5, 7.5 or 10m of cable. 5 will be fine for a single car with charging socket on the same side as the house. If we want to allow for 2 cars with socket possibly facing away from the house then with careful cable routing 7.5 would just reach the far side of either without being a trip hazard, so I'm thinking of just going for 10 straight away to make it absolutely future proof.
Going back to the question of range; how important is a heat pump in the UK ?
Living in North East Scotland I've always assumed that a heat pump is a must if you don't want range to die a death in winter.
For reference I'd quite like (moon on a stick) a real world range of 250 miles year round (with winter tyres). I've seen a few second hand cars with WLTP ranges in excess of 350 miles but without a heat pump. This seems a bit odd. If you care enough about range to pay for the bigger battery, surely you'd want to spec the heat pump too.
A heat pump makes a difference to the range in winter for sure but not enough that I’d be prepared to pay to spec it as an extra.
My GV60 had a heat pump as standard and my EV6 doesn’t. The difference in winter range between what is fundamentally the same car underneath is about 20 miles. Summer range is equal in both cars.
If you’re doing lots of long journeys in the winter it might be worth paying for one but otherwise, for me, it’s a nice-to-have rather than a necessity.
With the Ioniq 5 they bundled the heat pump with the battery preconditioning as an extra pack for the lower-mid models. I should have got it but for the quicker winter charging more than the slightly more efficient heating. Will know when it comes to renew but a quick look on Hyundai's own UK used listings and they don't make it clear or filterable if that critical option is on each car!........just reinforces my experience that drivers who are interested in EVs and have used them know infinitely more than the dealerships.
Indeed. See my post earlier about maindealers not knowing basic stuff like how many driven wheels there are on a particular model and whether it can legally take a towbar and roof bars.
The Ioniq 5 was on my list as a secondhand option and I’ve found it impossible to reliably check if the heat pump pack is optioned. As far as I can see a dealer will quickly lose interest when they realise you don’t want their comically priced finance.
Anyway Hyundai dropped off my list when they stopped their much heralded Hyundai Promise which up to December offered a 5 year warranty but now offers 12 months!
A heat pump makes a difference to the range in winter for sure but not enough that I’d be prepared to pay to spec it as an extra.
My GV60 had a heat pump as standard and my EV6 doesn’t. The difference in winter range between what is fundamentally the same car underneath is about 20 miles. Summer range is equal in both cars.
If you’re doing lots of long journeys in the winter it might be worth paying for one but otherwise, for me, it’s a nice-to-have rather than a necessity.
Do you think it matters what you constitute as 'winter'? I was working it out as I drove in this morning. I reckon I do 220 commutes a year (one day equals 2 commutes - 1 in & 1 back) in sub zero temperatures. 50mins/26miles each way. That's partly because of the time of day I am driving (before 0700 and after 1900) and partly the location (Highlands). Today was -5 which is pretty standard - a bit warmer and closer to zero at the shoulders of the winter and a few properly double digits cold in the middle too.
Conversely, I'm dressed for winter! There must be a difference in the battery drain (and therefore the heat pump benefit) if the driver is happy if the screen is not frozen and their arse is warm enough to avoid piles or the driver is wearing shorts or a floaty dress with the heating turned up to 22 deg!
Dumb question about charging cables. Is there any downside to going longer?
Agreed go longer.
I wish i'd paid for the 8m cable, as 5m just can't stretch to charge the car unless it's the 'first on the drive'.
8m cable would mean we could charge the car if it's 'second' on teh drive
DrP
I'll Third "go long", mine is now 10m (previously 5m) it made no difference to any other aspect of charging, so no downside imo. There's lots of folk selling reels that attach to the wall if you're fussy about it being neat and tidy when not in use. I've just put a large hook on the wall so I can loop the cable over a couple of times just to hang it
Ta folks - 10m ordered
Audi have a 'real world' range calculator on their website - they reckon a heat pump is worth about 20% extra miles in cold weather.
I took my eldest back to Uni a couple of weekends ago - Manchester to Aberystwyth. It was only above freezing for the last 7 miles.
It was one of the factors that put me off the Q4. The lease company we are tied to are weird about options; packs are OK, but individual options are not allowed.
So I got something else - with a heat pump
Thanks for the ID7 views in the thread! Got access finally to my company car list and the ID7 tourer GTX is there and very reasonably priced. Perfect car to replace the A6 with I think!
Re heat pumps, for me they are nice to have if part of the car but I don’t find they are worth paying for, for my driving as I don’t need extra range. Looking at basic man maths, how much is a heat pump? £500+? I drove 15,000km last year and my charging costs were £300 (home charging). If 6 months of my driving were in the cold where a heat pump would help (7,500km) and they add 20% to your range, that’s 1500km extra and about £30 saving. That’s a lot of years to recoup my initial outlay. Different story if you are not home charging or really need extra range.
I think it’s fairly clear that heat pumps don’t make sense financially. As in, you won’t save enough in charging to pay for them. But I’m not sure that’s the point. Cars don’t make sense financially (biggest wealth killer for most people) and you could make the same argument about the bigger battery option in most cars. You’ll pay a lot more for the bigger battery and won’t get that back. You are paying the extra because you want the extra range. Same with a heat pump really. So I’m still not sure why cars with large expensive batteries still come without a heat pump.
We have a 10m cable, seems fine, no issues with it.
I went 10m too. Means i can charge in 3 of the 4 locations i usually park and one "extra" round the other side of the house that i can use if need be, was only £15-18 more for each extra 2.5m over the stock 5m cable.
Only thing i'd have done differently is go 15m...