Molgrips how do you know what the source of the data is?. IME info is usually on the website before vehicles have even been released to customers, so i always assumed it was industry testing (journalist figures, evdatabase people themselves or whatever). An example would be the Fiskar Ocean figs were def on the website before a single car had been delivered to any customer.
Anyhow, I definitely found that the figs they were quoting were pretty good as a generalisation / benchmark in winter and summer for both cars I've had (both for 2 years each).
Evdb seems accurate to me at the winter end of things - obviously I can only go on my own experience with my specific car, but it seems about right, but leaning to the pessimistic side, which I guess is better than being optimistic
Haven't had the car for a summer yet to comment on The summer numbers
Molgrips how do you know what the source of the data is?
I don't, which is also part of the problem 🙂 For all we know poor figures are being planted by the pro-oil lobby.
The numbers for my Ioniq were lower than what we got. Then again, we seem to get much better efficiency than most people on the Leaf owners FB page too so dunno.
Just thought I would post this for the hell of it.
18m with the Merc EQA which works really well, has a very good range, glitchy electronics, a gear selector I hate with a passion, is the opposite of a TARDIS, and after not having my old VW t5.1 Caravelle for a couple weeks realising I love my old bus with a passion. Its so much nicer to drive and be in
https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/range/all-electric-mini-cooper.html
249 WTLP range for the bigger battery, price in the mid 30s.
Possibly finally breaking the mould that you can have either a small efficient 2 door car, or a long range car; but not both.
The numbers for my Ioniq were lower than what we got. Then again, we seem to get much better efficiency than most people on the Leaf owners FB page too so dunno
Sounds like you need to start a page with ratified stats then. Perhaps you and the op can get together ?
Meanwhile really world stats are useful as I know I can hit somewhere about halfway between them and factory stats consistently. .... I mean there's the odd journey where I may reach driving god status and hit no traffic and the stars align so I get better millage than the factory tests but the reality is on the UK roads today I'm much closer to the reported stats than the factory stats.
I want to hate the Mini for not actually being a Mini. But that's not bad at all. EX30 better on range and power, and only slightly bigger. It doesn't have a HUD like the mini, but also has a sensibly sized screen.
The Zoé has had that range for nearly four years, ayjaydoubleyou, and four doors, and about as efficient use of space as you'll find, and cheaper. Since BMW got their hands on Mini it's always been more expensive and less bang for your buck than the equivalent Renault. 😉
Mileage has always been a how long is a peice of string thing, trailrat. I know I don't drive like most people, I share the roads with them. Most people tailgate to some extent, I don't, so accelerate and brake less. In taffic most people move as soon as theres a tiny gap and then follow very closely, I don't, I trickle along leaving a gap that avoids the accordion movement and means the tail pipe of the car in front isn't venting straight into my heater intake (if anyone ovetakes to fill the gap good luck to them, they are probably more pressed for time than me). I don't use the heater much, my garage is better insulated than any STW'ers house if the insulation threads are anything to go on so the car rarely leaves home at less than 10°C. I don't use the A/C much either for the same reason. I stick to speed limits (gps). I anticipate so hardly ever need the service brakes, regeneration is enough. Acceleration in eco mode is more than adequate for making normal progress that won't annoy people behind.
It's not what I'd call being a driving God, just getting from A to B with minimum levels of fuss and stress. Madame usually dozes off after a few kms so I can watch the world go by in peace. 🙂
Prompted by your post I've just had a look at the trip. 12.6 kWh/100 km over the last 167km (mostly Madame driving 15km out of town to her horse on 30, 50, 70, 80 and 90kmh roads) which gives a theoretical range of 52/12.6*100 = 412km. Make of that what you will.
What tyres for EVs ?
To return to my question about tyres (sorry, but this IS STW) I've seen it said (on MG4 facebook group) that you should get XL (extra load) tyres. Of course I'm not gonna take such a decision without consulting the Tyre Oracles. What do you think?
Although they don't need to be specific EV tyres, EV tyres have been made with a composition more akin to EVs. They also are usually fitted with a thick sound absorbing internal band as tyre noise is more noticeable with no engine noise. Whatever is used they should be XL extra load.
you need to care about load index rather than the XL thing. XL just allows for a higher load index. assuming fully laden your car weighs 2 tonnes and the weight is evenly distributed, you need tyres with a load rating of 84 or higher
They also are usually fitted with a thick sound absorbing internal band
The sound absorbing band is a generic feature, after all who doesn't want quieter tyres? Each brand has a different name for it. However, it's usually only available on larger SUV sized tyres. I have been looking for a brand that has it in my non-SUV car sizes but none do it.
The Zoé has had that range for nearly four years, ayjaydoubleyou, and four doors, and about as efficient use of space as you’ll find, and cheaper. Since BMW got their hands on Mini it’s always been more expensive and less bang for your buck than the equivalent Renault. 😉
honestly surprised by the Zoe range, that’s a good one to look at.
for my personal situation, I prefer 2 doors. That’s a car thing, not an EV thing.
I’m aware I’m the outlier here and it’s becoming even more marginalised, so I’m not holding out too much hope as manufacturers will obviously focus on the most popular models to electrify first.
The sound absorbing band is a generic feature, after all who doesn’t want quieter tyres? Each brand has a different name for it. However, it’s usually only available on larger SUV sized tyres. I have been looking for a brand that has it in my non-SUV car sizes but none do it.
Michelin pilot sport 4 on my Tesla model 3 had acoustic foam inside, that certainly ain't an SUV. One of my pals changed his Pilot Sport 4 for Cross Climate 2 (without acoustic foam) and he said he didn't really notice that much difference ( he does wear hearing aids so his opinion may not be valid).
some long mileage days from home sat and sun just past. Having done my maths, had the same trips been done in my previous diesel Audi, the 420 mile would have used most of a tank of fuel , so in the region of £75 - £80.
in my i4, with all charging at home on intelligent octopus, the fuel cost was a shade over £8.
Pleased with that ! 🙂
been doing some idle window shopping on autotrader today, there's some real price drops of late..
£13k fiat 500e (well under half price for a 1 year old car, might be a pricing error?) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308221080502
£10k corsa e https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311264315921
£16.5k honda e https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311073735624
£8k i3 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311143942642
I had to take my Dad to hospital today (he has COVID) and the Merc is in bits so I had to get my wife to come home so I could take the Leaf which is annoying, as it's not very comfortable after about 45 mins and I have a lot of driving to do.
Stopped at an Instavolt which wasn't working, and it was fairly comical. Two nice modern chargers with a big screen on the front showing an Instavolt advert on loop going on and on about how reliable and dependable they were. Two of them a few milliseconds out of sync making it sound like some kind of dystopian future propaganda outlet which wasn't a million miles from the truth. The screens were on full brightness and it was dark so I couldn't see where to tap my card, or indeed anything other than some clean cut guy telling me that the future is here and it was dependable and reliable. As his charger completely ignores my taps and waves.
Fortunately I knew there was an Osprey up the road and that worked fine, even giving me an amazing 47kW which is a personal record and in fact so high I'm going to post it on the FB owner's group 🙂 No chargers at Hereford county hospital but I found a 7kW in a car park up the road.
I’ve got Cross Climate 2 on my Model 3 and they’re no louder than the Pilot Sport 4 that it comes with and much, much better in heavy rain.
Up to 30,000 miles out of them and still 5mm of tread left.
iainc
Having done my maths, had the same trips been done in my previous diesel Audi, the 420 mile would have used most of a tank of fuel , so in the region of £75 – £80.
Pretty low fuel economy, then?
I make that about 38mpg assuming £1.50/litre and £75.
Similar mileage would cost me £47 in my car.
Still more than £8 though 😉
been doing some idle window shopping on autotrader today
The Corsa e is the same as mine. 9 months newer and 60000+ miles more!
Gives me hope that mine will last until 2030 and beyond!
I paid £17k back in May, for a 8500 mile elite nav.
Not too worried about the price drops. It'll hopefully make the next e-car purchase cheaper.
Pretty low fuel economy, then?
I make that about 38mpg assuming £1.50/litre and £75.
petty much, mixed driving in an Audi Q5. Over the 3 years I had it I think it averaged about 40mpg
Back up to 4.0-4.1 miles/kW now in the Ioniq 5: temps around 7-9deg. Taking advice on here, I’ve been limiting the heat to 18deg in the car and leaving the seat warmer on low, I think this has made probably the biggest difference. You can also isolate the heater just to feed the driver, which has been ideal for commuting. (Not sure my family would agree on a family trip though!)
Flaperon
Full MemberI’ve got Cross Climate 2 on my Model 3 and they’re no louder than the Pilot Sport 4 that it comes with and much, much better in heavy rain.
Up to 30,000 miles out of them and still 5mm of tread left.
Possibly because the Pilot Sport 4 that comes OEM on the Tesla is a special low rolling resistance version.
In warm weather the CC2 is actually not brilliant tyre in the wet, especially compared to something like a (full fat, not Tesla) Pilot Sport. The wet braking distance is around 20% longer for example.
Brilliant tyre for year-round use in the UK though. Why do they even ship UK cars with summer tyres?
Re heating - I drove 150 miles yesterday. In the Leaf you can turn on A/C and heat separately. Supposedly, if you have either heat or A/C it uses the same compressor either in heating or cooling mode, but if you select both this is of course impossible so it cools the air to condition it and then I guess heat it back up using the resistive PTC heater. If you just select heat it doesn't de-mist the cabin in wet conditions, so I played around with the combinations whilst watching the energy meter (as well as the road) which gives you a crude dial showing how much energy is used by the climate control.
There wasn't any obvious difference in using the PTC heater vs heat only, that I could tell - although there should be in theory. Nor was there a clear difference between 17C and 20C. But what was very noticeable was that with heat alone, 17C was quite warm, but when I selected the A/C and heat, it became cold and I had to whack the heat up. So if you can dis-engage A/C, it might save you some energy, provided you don't steam up.
Hey all...
This post will be in the 'solar thread' and the 'electric car thread'..
Basically, looking for some advice/charger advice..
I've a nissan leaf - doesn't YET do car2home..
At present, I only charge it at work (have a charger installed there)..
We're currently with UW, and pay about 28p/kWh at ALL times. Our electricity useage for November was... 550kWh. this isn't including gas CH (2 combi boilers)....!
Our bills are, as you imagine, quite big.
I'm thinking about switching to Octopus EV tarriff..
Standing charge is the same.. Day rate is 31.21p, but overnight would be 7.5p. Not just for EV charging, but all electricity.
We could run the dishwasher/tumble drier/washing machines (yup, pleural) overnight...
Those are 'big money items' and would hopefully offset the higher daytime cost.
I could also get a Zappi charger installed (£1000) which could potentially future proof the house for a solar array..
Big question... as I don't actually charge my EV at home (as said - I charge at work, but ultimately I'm the business that pay the electricity at work at 20p/kWh) will i see major savings??
DrP
will i see major savings??
You tend to break even when 12-15% of your electric use is in the cheaper off peak times, the higher percentage you can get in the off peak times the lower your average per kwh cost becomes. I think my average per kwh cost will be 18-19p per kwh on intelligent octopus, but that with a car using 3000 kwh per year, and a house using 5000 kwh per year. Of the 5000kwh of house usage I think 900 kwh will be in the off peak hours
For the Octopus tariff you are not actually switched to it (following your request) until you actually perform a test charge. So you have to have either a compatible car or a compatible charger before you can switch to it. So I don't think the install of a Zappi would be optional. I've also read that there's a minimum amount of charging you need to do or they kick you off the tariff. This may be internet rumour but it may be worth investigating if the intention is to carry on 100% charging at work. I think I read it's only a requirement to charge at least once a month so it's not a massive benchmark to hit.
cheers..
will have a thinky pops about it all.
here's another question...
If i get Octopus EV tarrif - what's the stop me NOT getting a specific EV charger, and just plugging the 3 pin/granny charger in overnight?
DrP
EDIT - probably the big writing on the website that says:
"Compatible with over 280 cars from top EV brands
You need either an Octopus-compatible EV OR charger"
Oh well!
EDIT 2 - cheers Timmys...didn't see your reply when typing!
If i get Octopus EV tarrif – what’s the stop me NOT getting a specific EV charger, and just plugging the 3 pin/granny charger in overnight?
It's all very integrated. The charger (Ohme in my case), talks to Octopus to determine charging scheduling*. I don't think you could get away with doign that.
*This is clever bit. You tell the charger "I want you to add 50% by 8am tomorrow", and it talks to Octopus to determine when it would be advantageous for Octopus to give you power. The bit I didn't realise is that this can often be outside the 11:30-5:30 window. And all your electricity usage is obviously at 7.5p then if it decides to go for it outside the window.
Yep. I often tell the Ohme app "I want 70% added by 4 AM" and it starts my cheap electricity early to achieve it. As the Ohme/Octopus App doesn't actually talk to my car, it can't tell what my actual charge state is.
That's the graphs I was wanting to show but couldn't find them in the app - had forgotten they were on the actual bill! I don't often need to charge the day in the middle of the day, but it can be beneficial!
If i get Octopus EV tarrif – what’s the stop me NOT getting a specific EV charger, and just plugging the 3 pin/granny charger in overnight?
If you have a compatible car the there is nothing stopping you using a 3 pin granny charger with intelligent octopus, some people do exactly that.
If your car isn't compatible then you need a compatible charger, ie ohme, zappi etc
I think the Ohme charger does talk to your car..? Mine does, via the same online API that the Nissan app itself does. Ohme is restricted to a sub-set of EVs but the list is much bigger than that of Octopus.
If you just want to use the granny charger then it's Octopus Go you want. The one we are talking about is Intelligent Octopus Go, (formerly just Intelligent Octopus). It's slightly more expensive and you get a slightly smaller window but it's fixed.
I think the Ohme charger does talk to your car..?
It doesn't need to for intelligent octopus. My car has no apis, so the charger cannot talk to it, the charger hasn't got a clue how much charge the car has etc. In this scenario where the charger cant talk to the car, you tell the charger your model of car so it knows the theoretical battery capacity of the car, then you just tell it how much kwh to add, and it just keeps supplying electric until the car stop taking it.
My ohme is configured to add 100% to the car, but the car is never completely flat so it always stops short of what the charger thinks is 100%
If you just want to use the granny charger then it’s Octopus Go you want.
Quite a few people are using a granny charger with intelligent octopus, they do it to get 7.5p electric for the whole house for longer than they would get if using a 7kw charger- a bit naughty really. You cab achieve the same effect with a 7wk charger if your car has a current limiter setting.
I've had my EV for a few months now and I was interested to check into the economics. I'm on Octopus IO, like the postys above, so basically it's 7.5p/kWh for low rate and 30p/kWh for high rate, compared with 28p/kWh for normal Flexible tariff. I'm rounding and ignoring the standing charge for now.
Looking at my bill and the Ohme app, last month I used 1316kWh of which 200 kWh was charging the car, so 1116kWh for the house (no gas; heat pump etc).
If I'd been on Flexible, the bill would have been £368 for everything, of which £312 for the house and £56 for the car.
My actual bill was £312 for everything, so equivalent to staying on Flexible and getting the car for free.
The joker in the pack is that while the car is charging, all electricity is at the low 7.5p tariff, so by being able to charge the car while cooking dinner and heating the house I've been able to offset the high 30p tariff and also the car charging. Of course I can't guarantee when the car will charge (last night it charged in the middle of the night) but in the month I looked at at least the economics were much better than I'd expected.
Corrections to my arithmetic welcomed. Comments about "gaming the system" not so much.
Quite a few people are using a granny charger with intelligent octopus, they do it to get 7.5p electric for the whole house for longer than they would get if using a 7kw charger- a bit naughty really.
I think this is directly addressed by the T&C
Intelligent Octopus is subject to a fair use policy with a maximum of six hours of managed charging per 24 hours - which is enough for most electric vehicles to reach a full charge. Usage in excess of these six hours per day may be charged at the day rate.
“gaming the system”
My son is planning an epic cake baking session this weekend for a school Christmas fete event. While the two ovens are blazing, I have a feeling I might need to charge my car!
In all seriousness I can't be arsed to be organised enough to game the system when I feel I'm saving so much money anyway. Since I got the EV two months ago I've driven 2407 miles in it and paid £27.65 in electricity charging it (I do a lot of topping up at work for free). Our petrol car would have cost me ~£480 for the same mileage.
Note that "6 hours of managed charging" is different from 6 hrs of cheap electricity.
I'm kinda of the same ilk as above...
Since buying my leaf I've done about 5-5.5k miles (a software update reset the trip meter....) And put about £30 of my own personal money into it!
I either charge at work (pre tax!), or at Lidl (14p)..
I have spent LOTS of money, however, pimping it up with white wheels, better ICE, and coilovers 😎😎😎🤣
DrP
Having skimmed through the last couple of pages and dipped in and out over the last few weeks it seems a bunch of you are on the same setup as I've just got, and I had a question about the Intelligent Octopus EV tariff as they don't really go out of their way to explain how it works with the car.
So I had them install an Ohme charger and got the car last week. From what I'm reading here, if I plug the car in after I'm done using it for the day and using the schedule on the Ohme app have it set to charge the car to 80% by 7:30am, then I don't have to worry about it charging the car at the peak rate at all.? I had some issues with the Ohme charger losing connection with the app, and it's just defaulting to a full charge immediately, which freaked me out a bit that I would be getting a huge bill at the end of the month. It seems that the problem was mostly to do with me having set up the Ohme app with a price cap rather than a schedule (they don't have clear instructions for setting it up to work with the Octopus tariff, I was digging through the Octopus FAQ's one night before I found out!)
But what you all seem to be saying is that I can plug the car in anytime and as long as I'm letting Octopus do their 'SmartSchedule' thing then it will be at the off-peak tariff.? Also, how do you know.? I see mention of people taking advantage of that to use other appliances in the house at off-peak rates.. if it's a smart schedule, are you just checking the app to see when the car has started charging and running around switching everything on.??? 😀
Following on from that, how are you finding support with Octopus and Ohme specifically.?
I emailed them both with similar questions to above and have had nothing back in 4+ days, which seems pretty poor.
But what you all seem to be saying is that I can plug the car in anytime and as long as I’m letting Octopus do their ‘SmartSchedule’ thing then it will be at the off-peak tariff.? Also, how do you know.?
If the charger app says it is smart charging then it's at the off peak rate, you will only know for sure when you get your bill at the end of the month. The info from octopus is vague, but there is a faq that states this.
If you go into the ohme app and hit the max charge button then it won't be at the off peak rate, unless you also happen to be charging between 11.30pm and 5.30am
Following on from that, how are you finding support with Octopus and Ohme specifically.?
I had an issue connecting the charger to io, and emailed ohme about it, they got back to me the next day, they didn't fix my issue though, it seemed to fix itself the next day, or maybe they did something behind the scenes and didn't tell me?
But what you all seem to be saying is that I can plug the car in anytime and as long as I’m letting Octopus do their ‘SmartSchedule’ thing then it will be at the off-peak tariff.?
It's 2330 - 0530 at the low rate PLUS whenever it charges the car outside those times. You always get the low rate overnight, so that's when you schedule your washing etc.
FWIW I am not sure I've ever seen it charge outside the window, but it does vary the rate according to what I think is weather. But we are usually only putting 20% or so back at a time, and I don't check every time.
