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My commute when I go into he office is 120 mile round trip, and an EV is superb for it, it costs about £2.20 in electricity per day Vs about £20 on the Dies. , it's really nice never having to charge as every morning it's easy to go (in the Diesel then I'd have to stop in at a fuel station once or twice a week, which doesn't sound like much but from pulling off the route to getting back on is is about 15 mins and it's hassle. Also in the winter it is lovely walking out to a warm car with no ice to scrape off the windscreen (same in hot summer days with the Aircon, no more getting into an oven)
I need to just go and take a few test drives I think and see what I get along with.
Sounds like a good plan 😀 Although, if you are coming from an older ICE car (as I was) be aware that you might find the test drives to be of limited value. It might just be me, but I found the difference going from an older manual ICE car to any modern EV was so large that I couldn’t really appreciate the subtle difference between them on a test drive. There is also so much tech and features that I felt I needed to live with to really decide on.
Things like how reliable the self steering is in real world situations can make a big difference in the long run but is hard to test on a test drive. Similarly which beeps and bongs can be turned off permanently and which need disabling on each journey (and how you do that) might matter to you more after a few weeks/months than you think. How reliable the app connection is (or isn’t) might be a big deal if you can’t turn on the climate remotely on a cold morning, but you won’t get that from a test drive. Even things like all the different regen modes that are available can take a while to test and work out which ones suit you in which situations.
In the end I decided that I just needed to pick an option that looked like it would work on paper and live with it for a while.
That's good point, I guess you can almost relate it to riding an old 26" hardtail and switching to a 29" Enduro e-bike lol.
I guess the thing that surprised me is that a 2nd hand EV's are a lot cheaper than I thought. I was thinking of spending around £15K on a new 2nd hand ICE car when in fact I could put a bit extra in and switch to an EV instead. I suppose the risk there is the battery health more than anything?
Plenty of stuff to go wrong on an EV beyond the battery. Plenty to go wrong on a combustion car.
I'd be interested if there are any good stats on cost/probability of failures on comparable ice vs electric cars.
I think we are still in early adoption as far as electric cars goes, where there is supposedly higher likelihood of failures... but then it's two very well known technologies joined together. The car bit; suspension, steering, control systems, etc. And then we've had electric motors for a long time including on other vehicles like trains so there's a lot of past history. Put together and teething problems are soon sorted.
So that leaves batteries and charging that is the 'new' technology, and as per much of the discussion on this thread the tech is still evolving but isn't as new as you might think. We have quite a few scientists where I work who are working on battery tech and without being overly detailed, talking to one, they said reckon usable lifespan on even current batteries is giving mileages several times more than the typical life of a car.
Quick calc on mine, I've seen people talk about 1000-1500 cycles, poss understated. Battery gives me 240 miles approx, so even if I charge 70% each time (10-80 or 20-90) that is somewhere around 170-250k miles. Top end of the calc, say 90% charge x 1500 cycles is 325,000 approx. And the battery doesn't just cark at 1500 cycles, just becomes less good. Tldr, after talking to real expertise I'm not concerned that my car will outlast the battery.
Of course there is, I had a £1700 bill for a high pressure fuel pump failure on my Octavia about 5 years ago for example. The battery seems to be a big expensive lump if something goes bad.
You're right, it would be very interesting to see some stats.
There's also servicing costs, I imagine they're lower on an EV?
My 5yr old ioniq seems to be in good health. Up to 53000 miles and had no problems at the last MOT.
I did a 140 mile trip in it yesterday 40% motorway speeds and 60% fast hilly A roads. 5.3miles/KW. I think the battery and motor are working ok.
At the moment the car is providing hassle free cheap motoring compared to the diesel Skoda I had before.
I enjoy the trips out in it more than my previous cars.
Quick report on my return journey with my new (to me) EV.
So not wanted to do things by halves, the first time I'd every driven any electric car were the first metres as I left the dealership in Gravesend (doors locked - I'm not stupid!) and headed into city centre London to stay with my sister....in Friday evening rush hour. Not driven outside of the Highlands of Scotland in 5 years - turns out it busier in London. Then at 5am I started a 620mile return journey, having never charger an EV before. 5 charges on the way home, though the last one was to make sure it was pretty full as the home charger is not installed yet. With a bit of road works fun that's 15 hours door to door.
Some learnings
1. I like it. The Niro is what I expected - a car for people not into cars. It is perfectly good at pretty much everything, very comfortable, seemingly well made but a slightly forgettable A-B machine. I've had some very interesting little hot hatches over the years and the current Audi TTS - but this will do the job just fine.
2. 15 hours of playing with buttons and you get to know a car pretty well. Yes it bings and bongs a bit and there's stuff I'd prefer to stay as I last used them that come on again when you start up, but it's all very livable with.
3. Some modern car stuff is good! Adaptive cruise control in particular but also the motorway lane assist and blind spot warnings.
4. I'm not that enamoured with the Kia's (well the version in the Niro anyway) long distance navigation. Yes, it gives you route alternatives but it doesn't give you charge point alternatives. Yes, you can get close to the suggested charge point and search for alternatives but that means stopping the big picture long distance destination and starting again. I wish it gave you 3 or 4 options for each and gave you a bit more info about what is at them. I used the first two it suggested which tuned out to be in MacDonald's car parks in the middle on nowhere - breakfast menu at a Maccy D for a vegan = black coffee and a hash brown - that's it. It also doesn't know about half the brands and the Tesla public chargers. And you don't seem to be able to point on the map and ask for chargers near there - it just gives you a list start from where you are right now. So after 300 miles I took over and told it the postcode of the next charger an wen from there.
5. Zapmap is not that much better- yes the charging station searching is much better but there is no route option...unless it's hidden behind the the subscription version. I need to find out.
6. Maybe it's my thrifty genes coming through but - the difference between the in app price for charging and the contactless can be quite a lot - like 10p/KWh. Over a journey that length that mounts up. Expensive too, 83p seems to be about default for rapid chargers on or near trunk roads. Tesla public chargers massively cheaper though at 52p - though dynamic, could be more, could be less.
7. Tesla public chargers - or the 2 I used are not that easy to use in a non tesla. With the short charge cable and in one case rubber wheel stops bolted into the tarmac it was very hard to get the Niro's front mounted charge point close enough to use. A one station I had to straddle two bays, at the other I had to park at a comical diagonal angle.
8. My charge rates were a bit disappointing. 20-80% saw me at 45kw. I think I once saw 51kw for a minute or so. The Niro is a slow charging car, topping out at aound 77kw, but on a warm day I was kind of hoping to get closer to that for at least some of the time.
9. There seems to be quite a bit of faffing around charge stations. The bays seems rather narrow and in tricky corners of carparks, and there was a lot of user error/faffing with apps and contactless not working for them.
10. Getting used to the different efficiency to an ICE. The miles/kwh dropping at (slow) motorways speeds but being surprisingly frugal on the sort of rural roads that an ICE struggles with. Regen braking is awesome and basically turns my local roads which twist and turn, but not like a Devon, lane into one pedal driving.
But overall - really please (so far) I've made the leap to EV.
Nice one @convert. None of this tedious research; just jump in and work it out as you go along 😀
Not sure if it is the same on the niro, but on the EV3 you can set up the map in a sort of split screen mode where you have a list of the chargers along your route (with live availability data) in one window with the map in the other. Not tried it in anger yet, but it looks like a decent option if you want to change where you charge.
Did (or can) you precondition the battery before getting to the charger? That seems to make a big difference to the charging speed.
You mention the Tesla chargers, but what other chargers did you use and how were they? I'm going to be doing the M74/M6 leg from time to time, so handy to know what is good and what is not. For the next trip from Aberdeenshire to the Lakes I was looking a BP Pulse in Dundee then Ionity at Gretna, but no idea if that's a good choice.
I think you are right; the actual driving bit is fine (if not particularly exciting) but the charging infrastructure still seems to require a bit of specialist knowledge if you want it all to go smoothly. It reminds me a bit of the 70s where every trip to visit friends or relatives would start with a discussion of which way you came and where you stopped 😀
on the EV3 you can set up the map in a sort of split screen mode where you have a list of the chargers along your route (with live availability data) in one window with the map in the other.
aha, every day is a school day 🤪 I must work out how to do that in mine !
I'm going to be doing the M74/M6 leg from time to time, so handy to know what is good and what is not. For the next trip from Aberdeenshire to the Lakes I was looking a BP Pulse in Dundee then Ionity at Gretna, but no idea if that's a good choice.
The Tesla chargers at Gretna Outlet Village are better or the Ionity at the Starbucks in Carlisle. The Gretna services ones are always busy.
The Fastned ones at Hamilton are also really good. Never had to wait for a charger at any of them
I wish it gave you 3 or 4 options for each and gave you a bit more info about what is at them.
There have been updates to the satnav and some of the Kia/Hyundai have this feature or something similar but I'm not sure which ones. Part of it is familiarity too - in the UK our options for long trips are likely to see us on the same few motorways regularly so you get to know what's available. If we're going to Scotland for example we're on the M6/M74 so we're stopping at the Starbucks on the industrial estate in Carlisle which has 8 decent chargers (and a seagull nesting in the drive through).
I'm also fairly sure that you can search for charging stations around a point, but it may not be something you can do easily whilst driving. But then, maybe that's what lane assistance is for... You can also filter the charging point search.
Did (or can) you precondition the battery before getting to the charger? That seems to make a big difference to the charging speed.
I 'think' you can....but it's not very clear. There is battery preconditioning hidden deep in a menu but it's simple on/off - it's not clear if when that's on it's permanently preconditioning or if when you select it it preconditions when it knows its nearing a charge point on the the sat nav. First feels very wasteful, second requires you to be using the built in nav and have programmed a charger as your next stop. I'll see if there is a firmware update available for the car and see if that improves it. Regardless - it was 20 degree - I kind of thought the batteries would have been at a good state for charging anyway.
what other chargers did you use and how were they?
I think the 2 were Instavolts attached to Maccy D's and the other was a Gridserve.
But I agree with Molgrips - I think after a time you'll probably just have your habitual tried and tested favourites for your repeat journeys. I guess the snag might come if doing the same journey at Christmas at -10 and your range has fallen off a cliff and you need to alter plans and everything gets out of sync.
it's not clear if when that's on it's permanently preconditioning or if when you select it it preconditions when it knows its nearing a charge point on the the sat nav.
I assume it's the same as the EV3. In which case, it will precondition the battery if you have a charger set as a stop (and you have enough battery left to do the preconditioning and still reach the charger) or you can just turn it on manually when you are around 30 minutes from where you intend to stop. In that case it just brings the battery up to the optimal temperature for charging and then turns itself off.
The Tesla chargers at Gretna Outlet Village are better or the Ionity at the Starbucks in Carlisle. The Gretna services ones are always busy.
The Fastned ones at Hamilton are also really good. Never had to wait for a charger at any of them
Thanks @perchypanther that's useful to know.
I think after a time you'll probably just have your habitual tried and tested favourites for your repeat journeys. I guess the snag might come if doing the same journey at Christmas at -10 and your range has fallen off a cliff and you need to alter plans and everything gets out of sync.
Yes, I guess you might end up with a default set of stops for summer and a different set for winter. What fun 😀
Does anybody use ABRP as a satnav in the car (through CarPlay or AA)?
No, I tried it but didn't like it as much as Google Maps. Still use it for route planning though.
Thanks @teaandbiscuits Yes I find it pretty good for route planning. Tell it what car you have, what state of charge you will leave with, what state you want at the end and it will plan a route. It's then easy to look at the chargers along the route, add any as a stop and recalculate the route. All of which can be done using the free version.
Just wondering if it would be worth paying for the premium version so I could use in with CarPlay. Apparently it can now connect to your car app to pull the battery state of charge too. But integration will never be as good as with the in-built system I guess, so I should probably just learn how to use the in-built system really.
Apparently it can now connect to your car app to pull the battery state of charge too
Yes, it does that and it works OK. Its mainly the OpenStreetMap I didn't like.
I think I read somewhere that it is basically using Apple Maps, which is what allows it to send the driving directions through to the driver instrument cluster or HUD if you car allows that (on CarPlay but not on AA).
While I'm asking daft questions; I typically use around 20% of my battery on a "normal" day. So, if I start at 80% it will be around 60% at the end of the day. So far I've tended to stick it back on charge so that it's on 80% again next morning. But is there any downside to this? Would it be better for the battery to let it get down a bit further before charging again?
I assume it's the same as the EV3. In which case, it will precondition the battery if you have a charger set as a stop (and you have enough battery left to do the preconditioning and still reach the charger) or you can just turn it on manually when you are around 30 minutes from where you intend to stop. In that case it just brings the battery up to the optimal temperature for charging and then turns itself off. Û
Done some research and sadly on the Niro manually turning it on is not a thing. Niro only get the option to toggle on battery preconditioning which once activated it will do automatically IF you are navigating to a charger on the baked in software that it knows is a charger and not a point on a map and IF it thinks it needs it.
The Niro only has a toggle to activate the automated system
The The EV6 screen on the other hand has an actual manual button to turn it on.
While I'm asking daft questions; I typically use around 20% of my battery on a "normal" day. So, if I start at 80% it will be around 60% at the end of the day. So far I've tended to stick it back on charge so that it's on 80% again next morning. But is there any downside to this? Would it be better for the battery to let it get down a bit further before charging again?
5 hrs on Octopus Go at home gives me a shade over 40% of battery capacity, so my rule of thumb is to plug it in when down to between 50 and 60 % if I can, with the car set to stop at 80% for normal use. Currently on holiday for a week in Northumberland and I charged to 100% before leaving home on Friday. It’s currently at 38% so will likely pop onto a fast charger in Alnwick tomorrow while we do a food shopping top up, so probably bringing it up to 80% or so. Likely another similar top up before heading back north end of the week.
if I start at 80% it will be around 60% at the end of the day. So far I've tended to stick it back on charge so that it's on 80% again next morning. But is there any downside to this?
No, in fact this is ideal. Batteries are pretty robust but keeping it between 40-80% all the time is ideal. That said, it will probably outlast the car no matter what you do anyway.
However charging a small amount every night gives the energy company more leeway to adjust charging when power is cheap; and it's cheap when renewable generation is high so it's probably better for the environment.
Just because you have the facility every night doesn't mean you have to use it.
Always plug in when you get home so that the supplier can charge when it's greenest. It becomes habit after a while.
I guess the snag might come if doing the same journey at Christmas at -10 and your range has fallen off a cliff and you need to alter plans and everything gets out of sync.
Nah, you'll know where all the stops are so you'll just choose an earlier one. But you'll have the satnav on anyway (on mute), because you want traffic updates, so the car will alert you if there's a problem.
Always plug in when you get home so that the supplier can charge when it's greenest. It becomes habit after a while.
If you have a smart tariff. If you're on a fixed period one you have to charge in the hours given to get the cheap rate, so makes sense to do a couple of times a week
While I'm asking daft questions; I typically use around 20% of my battery on a "normal" day. So, if I start at 80% it will be around 60% at the end of the day. So far I've tended to stick it back on charge so that it's on 80% again next morning. But is there any downside to this? Would it be better for the battery to let it get down a bit further before charging again?
thats pretty much how I charge mine with the odd long journey added in to use up more of the battery.
someone mentioned earlier the price of public charging, when I have along trip planned (usually our hols) I buy a 1 month subscription for IONITY that reduces the charging price and pays for itself after about 50kwh. Worth considering/doing the maths.
Edit, I just checked and £5.49 subscription saves 22p per kWh (75p down to 53p) so it’s actually only about 25kwh to be quids in, just remember to cancel.
Thanks folks. A bit of a difference of opinion, but nobody seems to think it will do any harm, which is good news. I think I'm still stuck in the "what if I suddenly need to drive 250 miles in a hurry tomorrow" mindset, even though that has never happened in my life.
@convert It seems quite common for EVs to only precondition the battery if you have set a charger as a destination (or stop) in the build-in satnav. I think all the modern Renaults are like this, for example. The EV3 is like the EV6 in that you can also turn it on manually (from the car or the app) but whether that is really that much use in practice I don't know. Most times you will be navigating to it anyway I guess.
I just checked and £5.49 subscription saves 22p per kWh (75p down to 53p) so it’s actually only about 25kwh to be quids in, just remember to cancel.
That last bit is the killer for me 😀
what if I suddenly need to drive 250 miles in a hurry tomorrow
Then you'll get in your car and go, but you'll have to stop for a 10 minute top-up.
I know, it's an irrational far. There is no chance that I will suddenly have to do a long journey, quickly tomorrow and anyway, if I really had to I could just nick my wife's ICE car 😀
Quite liking the look Eon's new tariff with 12-7am every day at around 6.6p ish.
Just on a smart meter that I've got.
Gives me time in the morning to do some domestic stuff too.
Or they've have a convoluted one with 3 tiers of price.
It’s good to see new tariffs like this coming online. It gives options for people who don’t have a charger/car that is compatible with the “smart” tariffs and shows that there must be increasing demand from customers, which must annoy those guys who make their living on YouTube by claiming that nobody wants an EV 😀
Smart tariffs are better in theory as they allow the electricity company to load balance and schedule charging for when there is excess capacity, but it’s not an option for everyone.
That 6.6p rate sounds great, but presumably there is an increase in your standard rate too?
I like the simplicity of the OVO anytime tariff as it gives me 7p/kWh at any time of the day or night with no change to my standard rate and so far it’s worked perfectly. That 7p is only for the car though but as I say I like the simplicity of that as I don’t have to try to schedule other things to happen at the same time to make the most of the tariff.
like the simplicity of the OVO anytime tariff as it gives me 7p/kWh at any time of the day or night with no change to my standard rate and so far it’s worked perfectly
did you happen to compare to Octopus Go ? As you know my EV3 doesn’t have the compatibility with IOG that my i4 did and I find the 5 hr timeslot on OG a bit limiting sometimes.
did you happen to compare to Octopus Go ?
No, I was with OVO already and I’m basically too lazy to change or to try to estimate the true cost for all the different tariffs. In your position I’d probably stick with OG. In theory you should be able to make the OVO tariff work with the EV but the fact that it’s still in beta would put me off. It seems that most smart tariffs can either talk to a compatible charger or directly to the car but most of what I’ve read suggests that talking to the charger tends to be more reliable in practice.
Personally I’m not really expecting the 7p rate to last much longer and wouldn’t bother changing tariff just to get the lowest possible rate or base my decision to buy an EV on getting that rate. But YMMV of course.
Just took delivery of an EV- Very excited
Come on then you tease; give us some details 😀
Cheap rate until 7am would save a chunk of money for heat pump users, as you could schedule the morning boost during cheap rate.
How important is SH on an EV?
Found a keenly priced EV that has done 84k, so only 16k of the battery warranty remaining. Car has a battery health check (Generational) which show SoH as 96%.
Given that the SH would only have been inspectations with only replacement air filters and brake fluid changes, does it really matter that it's not documented?
I'm inclined to think not.
Depends whether the warranty has any value to you I guess as they are often dependent on having the services carried out at the correct points. I think there is a bit of an element of traditional manufacturers trying to protect service income by demanding that you have services done that aren't really required and the warranty is the carrot/stick.
But if you ignore the warranty, any car with 84K on the clock is a bit of a lottery and there are expensive repairs that could be required in the near future whether it is ICE or EV. Maybe a few less expensive parts to fail on an EV but you've still got battery, motor, gearbox and on-board charger plus all the usual brake and suspension stuff. Of those, batteries seem to attract the most media attention but are probably the least likely to actually cause an issue.
As always, if the price is right then it's a good deal.
In your position I’d probably stick with OG. In theory you should be able to make the OVO tariff work with the EV but the fact that it’s still in beta would put me off. It seems that most smart tariffs can either talk to a compatible charger or directly to the car but most of what I’ve read suggests that talking to the charger tends to be more reliable in practice.
yeah, that’s my current thinking too, seems that some folks are having issues on IOG with EV3 and various chargers. I know mine works fine as a dumb charger and the car set for 5 hrs overnight cheap charging on OG. OVO could give me a bit more flexibility but as its beta for that car it might not work at all !
Indeed and there is no guarantee that they won't just remove the option altogether next week. That's just the way it is with EVs I reckon. We're not exactly pioneers. Hats off to the people who made the switch ten years ago. But there are still lots of things (with the cars, charging and the infrastructure) that are changing all the time. I'm sure it will all get sorted out and everything will just work by the time most people make the switch. But for now, we are guinea pigs 😀
How important is SH on an EV?
Depends. In general there's naff all to service on an EV, but for example if you have some (or any?) Kia/Hyundai they had a problem with the coolant crystallising in the system, so every four years you need a flush and 13l of expensive special coolant, that only the dealer can do. Costs about £500, which seems steep but it's offset by the fact the other "services" are £75.
There may be other things to consider for other cars - you might need a reduction gear oil change, you might not.
As for other expensive failures - I think brakes and shocks etc are not likely to be particularly big bills as they're basic items. The biggest risk is probably some important control module or other, but there's no evidence that these are any more fragile than in ICEs and probably less, because there aren't heat/vibration issues.
Indeed and there is no guarantee that they won't just remove the option altogether next week.
I agree. The reason that there are cheap EV tariffs at the moment is because they are being used to soak up spare capacity [overnight] - as more heat pumps and EVs are adopted then the spare capacity will diminish and prices will eventually rise.
That 6.6p rate sounds great, but presumably there is an increase in your standard rate too?
Yes but not bad at 27.5.
Reality is for me my cars (will have two EVs shortly) are only a modest proportion of my leccy bill. So it's a saving on tumble dryer use, dishwasher and hot tub through the night benefit too.
These things are very difficult to calculate before you implement them.
Approx 7000 miles a year each:
At 4.89 a fill per approx 280 (full) miles over 7000 miles is £120 a year at 6.6ppkWh
That's only a small part of a 1700 a year electric bill.
I was using double the night units over the day.
The reason that there are cheap EV tariffs at the moment is because they are being used to soak up spare capacity [overnight] - as more heat pumps and EVs are adopted then the spare capacity will diminish and prices will eventually rise.
I am not so sure. There will always be windy nights, and most businesses will be shut down overnight. Even commercial premises will need less air conditioning at night.
As we get better with EV charging they will be used to even out demand via smart charging, and suppliers will want to incentivise this. I signed up for an Ohme trial where they are asking me to keep the car plugged in all the time. They are doing a trial on smart grid balancing.
there's no evidence that these are any more fragile than in ICEs and probably less, because there aren't heat/vibration issues.
No particular reason why they should be more fragile, although maybe added vehicle weight might affect the suspension - but you'd hope that would have been accounted for in the design.
Heat and vibration? The vibration caused by moving over the road surface would have more affect on the suspension than anything from an engine.
The reason that there are cheap EV tariffs at the moment is because they are being used to soak up spare capacity [overnight] - as more heat pumps and EVs are adopted then the spare capacity will diminish and prices will eventually rise.
I am not so sure. There will always be windy nights, and most businesses will be shut down overnight. Even commercial premises will need less air conditioning at night.
Both good points 😀
I'm working on the assumption that these cheap (~7p/kWh) rates are just a temporary thing, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they are not.
I guess it's a bit like the anti-EV people who claim that we can't all buy EVs as the grid couldn't cope. You need to work out what the actual demand might be and how that compares with the capacity. Having lots of batteries plugged into the grid should make things more efficient. Who benefits from that extra efficiency is a bit less clear though.
I meant the control modules and stuff that's in the engine bay on ICEs that gets a lot of heat and vibration.
Re spare capacity overnight, yesterday demand went from roughly 32GW ish during the day to 22GW overnight. That's 10GW spare capacity and about 33m cars in the UK. Overnight for say 5hrs that'd be about 1.5kWh per car or about 5-6 miles. So yeah, not enough purely on that basis. Worth noting that renewable generation also dropped by 15GW overnight.
I guess it's a bit like the anti-EV people who claim that we can't all buy EVs as the grid couldn't cope.
In a way it can't - especially at peak periods - which is why there's an incentive to charge during low demand periods.
Another factor that may change things is when the infrastructure between the [higher generating] north and the [higher consuming] south is improved ... and it's going to be. Prices maybe affected.
I meant the control modules and stuff that's in the engine bay on ICEs that gets a lot of heat and vibration.
Maybe but in our cars they're under the passenger seat.
Who has got the cheapest used EV on here and what is it's range?
Maybe but in our cars they're under the passenger seat.
There are dozens of ECUs in the car, some will be under the bonnet along with a truckload of electronic sensors and wires and whatnot.
Who has got the cheapest used EV on here and what is it's range?
If you want a cheap used EV your best bet by far is an Ioniq 38kWh IMO, which is what I have. It's sort of 2nd generation tech along with the Hyundai Kona/e-Niro pre 2023 models, but it's a huge step up from the Leaf/Zoe. We leased one in 2021, when it went back we bought a Leaf 40kWh and we then sold the Leaf for another Ioniq because it was so much better, and I've never sold a car before because I didn't like it.
They are good for 200 miles in summer and they only drop to about 175 in winter, the dash readout is accurate and reliable (unlike many) which really helps, you get satnav routing via charging stops with live information, you get loads of equipment, it's a decent drive, big enough for adults in the back, and you can get them for £7k private*. The only downside is slow charging, but they are the most efficient thing on the road by a fair margin so it's not as bad as it seems.
* this is nearly half what I paid 18 months ago, albeit from a dealer
Well, after owning the same BMW 3 series Touring for the last 20y, I’ve finally arranged its replacement. I looked at the Polestar 2, Ioniq 5, Kia EV6 GT line and the BMW i4. Of those, only the I4 felt good, but left me feeling cold about its looks, so in theory end, I bought this 🙂
Not by any means the best electric car, but a lovely car nonetheless. I only do around 2000 miles a year and only rarely long trips. This will get to London and back on a single charge or upto Leeds on one, so good enough for me. Air suspension is AMAZING!
Well, after owning the same BMW 3 series Touring for the last 20y, I’ve finally arranged its replacement. I looked at the Polestar 2, Ioniq 5, Kia EV6 GT line and the BMW i4. Of those, only the I4 felt good, but left me feeling cold about its looks, so in theory end, I bought this
How is that possible without spending months agonising about it on this thread?
I think they look great.
Currently having my charger installed as I type this. Turns out I didn't have any gas bonding, despite it being marked on the electrical cert. Thankfully the installer has sorted it for me.
Was looking at one on the road the other day thinking the i-pace are still a lovely looking car that hasn't aged - never knew it had air suspension though? Fast charge rate is a bit low but for your mileage and journeys I bet it is a great buy given depreciation.
Who has got the cheapest used EV on here and what is it's range?
I paid £10350 for my 4 year old ioniq my20 38kw premium se 1 year ago and it is performing well.
188 miles at 89% charge is the current guess on the range. I'll report back after this weekends driving in warm weather.
Those I paces do get good reviews for how they drive and they look like a bargain, but the various tales of awful dealers,various unreliability issues and battery faults along with huge delays in getting them repaired put me off them.
Was looking at one on the road the other day thinking the i-pace are still a lovely looking car that hasn't aged - never knew it had air suspension though? Fast charge rate is a bit low but for your mileage and journeys I bet it is a great buy given depreciation.
It's a rare optional extra - same with the silly wheels, but with the air suspension - they work!
Those I paces do get good reviews for how they drive and they look like a bargain, but the various tales of awful dealers,various unreliability issues and battery faults along with huge delays in getting them repaired put me off them.
Totally agree. Mine is an approved used with a 3 year JLR fully comprehensive warranty included and a battery health report stating that the pack was at 95.5%. Even so, it's still a bit heart over head. Lovely place to be worrying, though 🙂
I'm about 1.5k miles and 6 weeks in to a Model Y, and I'm pretty impressed with it - I wasn't really expecting to like it as much as I do.
As a drivers car, it's horrible - really horrible (LR AWD). Big, really, really heavy and soft - and it's as ugly as. The performance is irrelevant, you stick your foot down and it goes - zero pleasure from that to be honest. As a place to travel around in though it's really, really nice. Big front boot where I can stick all my dirty riding gear after a ride, and little touches like being able to go into the back seats use the screen to move the front seat forward to give me more space to get changed - plus it's massive in the back, more legroom than any car I've ever been in. Build quality is decent. The only criticism really is in stop/go traffic it accelerates and brakes far harder than any other car I've had with adaptive cruise and feels crude.
The big test will be driving to Les Gets in the summer with a couple of DH bikes on the towbar. I reckon I'm getting about 250 miles per charge with the rack, so if there are no queues it'll be fine, if there are queues I'll be setting it alight when I get back.
The OS is genuinely brilliant, and I impressed how well thought out getting to everything is - zero learning curve.
What Julian's said!
I'd put a deposit on one and was sweet to buy it last weekend. Went on the ipace forum and the amount of owners who said don't unless you want to throw thousands at it made me back out of the purchase.
The HSE spec has the air suspension, the S and SE don't.
Hope you got a good one 🤞
I wouldn’t bet on Jaguar being around long enough to honour a 3 yr warranty.
The HSE spec has the air suspension
It varies with model year, some it was standard, some it was an option, but HSE does not mean it’s got airsus. Mine doesn’t.
I wouldn’t bet on Jaguar being around long enough to honour a 3 yr warranty
I suspect JLR are one of the less likely manufacturers to disappear in the UK in the next 3 years, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some other brands disappear at least from the UK market - there isn’t room for everyone plus the Chinese.
Disclaimer - I’ve been driving an iPace for the last 3 years and it’s been faultless so I haven’t had to test the warranty. The dealers are a mixed bag just like any other manufacturer but the car is brilliant..
It varies with model year, some it was standard, some it was an option, but HSE does not mean it’s got airsus. Mine doesn’t.
Only the launch edition and the 400 Sport have air suspension as standard. HSE is standard springs. Very few cars have it and you can tell those which do as the ride height actually looks correct on the Air suspension. Most (but by no means all) cars with 22s will have air as the ride would be quite rough otherwise.
Well as I have to buy two cars this year, I've pushed the button on car 1, the cheaper one!. A second hand Renault Megane E tech. It seemed the best option considering its replacing our 11 year old Leaf. They seem to be in the shadow of the 5 and the Scenic and so are an appealing price - plus few people seem to realise that for 6 months from June to Dec 22 they had a 5 year base car warranty before dropping to 3 years thereafter so ironically a 22 model (mine is registered in Dec 22) has a longer warranty than a 23 or even an early 24!
I like the idea they are light and not so obese as some small EVs can be plus I reckon with the biggest range of EVs of any manufacturer Renault have gone all in on EVs and so will be keeping apps and tech up to date.
Plus I like the looks - mine is a launch so it has the old skool gold renault sport highlights!
The only thing that bothers me is the stupid 20" rims but the one I test drove seemed ok even on those - anyway I'll pick up mine in a couple of weeks on my way back from holiday.
Hmmm but now for the bigger car replacement......
I went to the launch of the Megane at the local dealer. I asked the salesman if they'd be doing a more basic version with smaller narrower wheels preferably in steel that would take higher profile Winter tyres - no. Great car, shame about the Ninja wheels.
170k round trip to work for me. On average it costs me around AUD$2.00 a day which is nice. I think is you include running costs (only 2 x tyres per annum) that probably pushes it up to maybe $5. The biggest things I appreciate is 1) not having to stand in the heat/cold/rain and fill the thing up twice a week, 2)grovel around underneath it 4 times a year to service it in the heat/cold/rain, and lastly 3) nearly always the car is nice to get into regardless of the weather. Driving an ice car would bankrupt me with the k’s I do.
We were camping in the blazing heat over the weekend: I used the car to power a fridge for perfectly cold beer. Magic.
Well I've joined the ranks after getting a train down from Manchester to Gatwick at the weekend and in true YouTube fashion I appear to have bought the cheapest EV6 GT Line for sale in the UK.
23 plate with 85k and a battery report showing 96% SoH.
215 miles home and the battery went from 95% to 26%.... Meaning the mileage from last full charge would be over 310 miles.
Journey home was steady and got 4.1m/kWh.
Only problem so far is I can't get it to connect to the Kia Connect app. Deactivated and reactivated in car but app says network unstable. Reset the head unit but that didn't work. Disconnected the 12v for 30 mins and that made no difference so need a bit more googling before I phone Kia. I don't think the network is unstable as it's showing full bars and I've tried it in a few different locations.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Contisilent tyre repairs.
Has anyone had a Contisilent tyre professionally repaired ? I had a tyre breakdown repair bloke put a string / worm repair, but I am uncomfortable with that as a permanent repair.
Halfords said it was not repairable because of the foam band.
Question for the EV veterans....
The first couple of hundred miles of driving ours on local routes has been a bit of a revelation - in a good way. Turns out our local minor rural roads with their relatively gentle twists and turns are effectively one pedal driving (at non 'making progress' speeds - YMMV) with regen doing all the slowing needed on the vast majority of corners with just the mildest of additional braking on the odd one or two. Junctions, lights and traffic are hardly a thing. It's such relaxed driving. But......I think I probably use the actual brakes on the Niro EV about 1 or 2% of what I would do in an ICE. And even on an ICE, in the frozen north with the salt on the roads and tough conditions for a car, disc corrosion and seized callipers was/is a significant issue that I've spend a good chunk of money on in the last few years. I'd imagine it's going to be much worse on an EV. Do any of you do anything about it - like go out of your way to put in some hard braking from time to time, or get your brakes 'serviced' more regularly?
The foam tyres are repairable. They just need to cut a little circle out of the foam when they do a repair. Halfords may not be bothered to do that mind.
Show them this video:
But......I think I probably use the actual brakes on the Niro EV about 1 or 2% of what I would do in an ICE.
The brake pedal doesn't simply activate the friction brakes*. When you lift the accelerator or press the brake pedal, you're just telling the car you want to slow down at a certain rate. The car always uses regen unless you have requested more deceleration than it can provide, in which case it applies the friction brakes as well. The slower you are going, the less regen is available. So at very low speeds like manoeuvring or driving in a queue, you are probably using friction brakes all the time. You will probably be able to hear the discs scraping if you haven't driven for a few days and it's rained.
These cars are designed to be driven normally, by people who don't know or care about any of this stuff, so just do that. Most people's brakes last much longer than on ICEs and don't have issues. Mine are fine after 85k miles and we don't do anything special.
* unless you're in a BMW i3 I think?
Do any of you do anything about it - like go out of your way to put in some hard braking from time to time, or get your brakes 'serviced' more regularly?
I’m in the habit of turning the regen off completely for one leg of my commute maybe once a fortnight to give the friction brakes a bit of a polish up. It was recommended by Genesis when I had my GV60 and, I assume that Kia would recommend similar for my EV6.
Edit: According to the manual there is also an automatic brake disc cleaning mode which is operated by pressing the auto hold button for more than three seconds. Who knew?
Don't think I do anything differently really as I do still use the brakes - not as often as I did and possibly a bit harder than I did as I've grown used to the car doing some decent braking when the foot is lifted.
If salt corrosion is a concern, maybe give the wheels a wash/hose down once back home to rinse as much of the road crap off them as possible? That will work until it is cold enough to freeze I suspect.
EV3 has a disc cleaning mode also, activated by a long press of a button and it applies a light cleaning force until it decides they are clean. Haven’t tried it yet.
my previous i4 would often sit for 3 or 4 days in the damp, and brakes would be a bit noisy for first 5 mins, as they would in an ICE car, but sorted themselves out pretty rapidly.
Don’t know about corrosion but I wonder if that may be part of the thinking for my Born to have rear drums, or is it just cost saving or because the don’t need rear discs with the regen braking help? I was surprised that a pretty nippy car had drums. It was interesting to see my wife’s smaller/less powerful Inster had discs front and rear.
The brake pedal doesn't simply activate the friction brakes*
I did my commute in yesterday and literally my foot left the accelerator once in the 40mins (25miles of back A&B roads), and that was for about 3 seconds. The rest of the time just gently lifting to let the regen slow me as I approached the corner, squeeze a touch to reduce the braking effect as I enter the corner and then squeeze more for power on the apex. In fully geek mode I watched the regen gauge and it never reached max regen with my foot lifted so I'm guessing zero friction disc was used (apart from those 3 seconds).
So at very low speeds like manoeuvring or driving in a queue, you are probably using friction brakes all the time.
As I say, I am lucky enough to no longer know what a queue looks like. Or a traffic light. I guess I spent a couple of seconds parking.....
No, brakes look fine at 5 years with hardly worn pads.
But where you live, would you expect disc pitting and seized callipers on ICE cars?
According to the manual there is also an automatic brake disc cleaning mode which is operated by pressing the auto hold button for more than three seconds. Who knew?
Interesting. Will investigate for the Niro - suspect not as it does seem a generation behind the EV6/3/4 etc on this sort of thing...edit....3 second google - it does! happy days. That might resolve that then. Thanks. Reading the manual - an underrated pastime!
Salty roads up to the ski resort each Winter. The corrosion on the unswept part of the disc is comparable to ICE cars of the same age here. The car gets a couple of km of town drivng each time its used and the low speed use of friction brakes seems enough to keep them clean and working freely. France is the land of the STOP sign which must help.
Pretty sure I watched a carwow YouTube video recently where a manufacturer had done just that. Fitted drums instead of discs as cost saving for user as discs were corroding rather than wearing out.
edit...it was his ID.4 review.
A quick google suggests loads of articles re EV's saving the drum brake!