All the threads I wanted to bump are over a year old so here's an attempt at a durable thread.
A couple of years ago we did a road trip in a Zoé 40 which showed up weaknesses in the charging infrastructure; when all else failed we found a campsite and charged overnight. This year we decided to visit family and friends so did Pau, Berlin, Lodz (Poland), Bavaria and Austria: 5050km.
France still isn't great, there's a limited number of DC chargers and too many operators with different cards. We used 22kW chargers with Mobive (which is currently shambolic as they're being taken over and twice required phone calls to start chargers), Leclerc, Lidl, Intermarché and local council chargers. The only 50kW DC charger on our route failed - there was a Dutch guy there with 2% battery wondring what to do next. All free or cheap as you'd expect with French electricity prices.
Germany and Austria have gone from nightmarish to brilliant. Mobility+ has signed contracts with many of the 300+ operators to provide a nationwide network. Lots of 50-300kW DC chargers - we saw one of those new Porches using a 300kW charger near Munich. Every one we used worked as it should from the app. Pricing is better than it was too: 39cents for AC kWs and 47cents for DC kWs which is not bad considering the price of electricity in Germany and the 77cents of some competitors. Lidl and Aldi have 50kW chargers in some places too but we couldn't find a simple way of knowing which of them had chargers. There are more than on the Chargemap app anyhow. There's still a problem with with fully charged hybrids squatting chargers for free parking in some places so we went for fast chargers on autobahns when possible.
Poland. Once we'd bought a Polish SIM card to put in the phone it was fine. You can only download the Orlan app with a Polish SIM (try it, I'd be interested to know if it's just French SIMs that are blocked on Google Play). Orlan chargers are great and because they're in a service station if they don't work there's someone there to sort them out.
As for the new Zoé, the extra range and fast charging make 600km+ days confortable, confortable meaning 9 hours from leaving one hotel/camping to checking into the next. On a 50kW Orlan charger the Zoé charged at exactly the same rate as the Tesla Model 3 that was on it before, 37kw. We never saw more than 37kW on any charger, it was generaly hot and the car had done about 200km before the charge. 50mins for 70% of the battery was typical.
Impressive trip, Edukator.
We have a Zoe 40 and Edinburgh to Glencoe is my idea of a long trip!
One of the many good things about living in Scotland is that the vast majority of car charging points are on a single network, Chargeplace Scotland. The network is expanding fast as well with gdowing numbers of chargers in the Highlands.
Enjoy the new Zoe, we will be running ours for a good few years yet as the range of 150 miles is more than enough since we also have a camper van. The only problem is that the fuel cost of the van seems eye watering when you are used to charging an EV on low cost electricity overnight. 😢
Enjoy your Zoes, back in 2015 we got a Zoe R240 (22kW charging, 22kWh battery) and our first long trip was from near Derby to the Galway coast in Ireland, really enjoyed that car back when you'd call a trip like that an EV adventure, although it was really easy. Since then we've had a couple of years with a 30kWh Soul EV and now a MG ZS EV which is OK but suffers a few what I'd call version 1 problems, especially in the software department.
It was perhaps more impressive when we cycled to Berlin. 😉
Have you asked for a software update, Matt? The first Zoé 40s had software gremlins which just required an update and our Zoé 50 had a few gremlins till we took it in for an update. It never stopped but gave messages such as "risque casse moteur" which we were told not to worry about and bring it in.
All the threads I wanted to bump are over a year old so here’s an attempt at a durable thread.
There's a couple of software updates for the MG which will fix most of the irritating issues but we haven't been able to get done due to Covid.
I ordered mine in the middle of January and am still waiting for it to be delivered 😞
Apparently it’s been at the dealer for over a week now but “being an electric vehicle the prep can take slightly longer“. That’s a direct quote from the dealer, I’m not sure what takes longer exactly.
I’m quite looking forward to it arriving.
I’ve gone full electric as the Golf GTE was enough to convince me that they’re pretty damn good. I was looking at the ID3 but they’re still not ready so it’s an E Tron 50 as came through one of the cheapest with a good range too. Very much looking forward to it. There will a few trips that need a bit planning now and then but week on week it’ll be more than capable. I’m actually pretty excited to be going full ev.
I had a brief chat with an e-Tron 95 driver at a charge point. They were doing a photo shoot for the new hyper chargers. I kindly moved Zoé out of the way out of frame onto a normal charger. The e-Tron manages to be big and imposing without (edit) being as agressive as some SUVs. The wheels on it were huge, I'm no VAG fan but have to admit that it's a desirable vehicle for the times.
@Drac I had a test drive in an eTron last year. I was absolutely blown away by it. All the tech from the dynamic range display on the SatNav to the way it uses the GPS data to anticipate upcoming roundabouts and initiate motor braking to maximise battery recovery.
Is just about my perfect next car - just need the prices to come down a wee bit first.
In other news our Zoe is back in action after being laid up with a broken from near side spring during full lock down. Range is 80+ miles which is more than enough for what we need it for.
With me and mrs OTS both working from home both full time for the forseable though it’s hard to make a case for a new car for me.
Unexpected consequences. 🤔
Our three years with our ZE40 was up recently; we were going to just chop it in for a ZE50 but couldn't find a Renault dealer who could be bothered to sell us one before we found a Hyundai Ioniq 38kwh in our price range.
We never got the Zoe for financial reasons, but actually the net cost including its trade in value made it possibly the cheapest car I've ever had. Admittedly we got it at probably the best time in terms of grants and contributions, but even so it was surprising. That's even before the miniscule fuel costs; 99% of our charging was on off-peak leccy at 5p/kWh.
We looked at an Ioniq three years ago but discounted it because it charged using CCS; back then there just weren't the chargers to make it useful for us. It's quite incredible how many more chargers there are now than back then.
Yeah I seen one on the charger the other night looked like it has been delivered that day, as you big without being imposing and up the wheels look huge. The tech they are loaded with is ridiculously impressive, they are also have an app type store due out so you can add purchases on the fly. Basically the cars come with most tech fitted, you can add options after purchasing the car and it will unlock them. I’m big VAG fan absolutely love them, pretty much all reviews I’ve read rate the e tron highly.
We went down the Tesla route and that is working well for us so far. I do a lot of 200 mile journeys and haven't used a public charger in 6 months. But when we do do a long trip the superchargers mean that charging takes no longer than the break we would've taken anyway. Public charging therefore so infrequent that I think over time most owners of long range EVs could get quite insensitive to the cost of motorway DC charging, but it needs to get cheaper to persuade people into EV ownership in the first place. Where I have seen issues is in reliability and useability from my small number of non tesla public DC charges.
Sounds like e tron tech is nice. The Tesla tech is imperfect as is well publicised, but then they all have their limitaions/issues. It's developing all the time and I find it useful enough that nowadays a long journey without it feels like a right ball-ache. First World problems!
I really didn't want an suv. I just felt that whatever my power source and internal space requirements I wanted to avoid unnecessarily increasing consumption. So my big bugbear is that nearly all manufacturers are entering the EV matket with an SUV. Plus, for me specifically, the corresponding decrease in range would've introduced a public charge into my usual (usually either non stop or the stop is short) journey.
Our second car is a diesel van (Transporter) and I wonder what we'll replace that with when the time comes. I'm sure it'll be electric. There's an argument that we just don't need a van (we don't - it's mainly used for putting bikes in the back and local trips when the car is away, and nearly all <100 mile days) and our second car could be an older small EV. Or perhaps an electric van. But I'm in no hurry since it doesn't do many miles.
Anyway, whichever brand I would find it hard to go back from electric to ICE.
Been watching a Youtube channel which does various long road trips across the US, like thousands of miles from the east coast to the west coast, and back - the last one they've done is a tesla with free supercharging vs a wholly unsuitable road legal trackday car.
One thing the tesla driver mentioned on the way back was that he 'just wanted to get home' but was limited by having to stop every 200 hundred miles to charge for half an hour or so.
That I could see getting tiresome - you can't just stop for 5 minutes, fill up and not have to stop for 600-700 miles, which is enough to get from one end of the UK to the other.
Tesla Model 3 with tow bar for bike rack here. It’s our do-it-all car. I have never been excited by a car before and I love it.
We drove straight to France after buying it - absolutely flawless journey. Did it again for Christmas to see my family. It’s a less stressful drive than our previous cars and vans. Charging has been fine and the network has been there for the trips we have wanted to make so far. It mainly charges at home though.
It’s been sitting on the drive for 4 months now though -and my OH has been out to sit in it from time to time as it has better heating (and air con) than the house...
That I could see getting tiresome – you can’t just stop for 5 minutes, fill up and not have to stop for 600-700 miles, which is enough to get from one end of the UK to the other.
700 miles at 70 mph would take 10 hours (so realistically more like 12 hrs or more on uk roads). no one drives non stop for that length of time. I'd say 5 hours non stop is about the max which is actually about 300 miles on uk roads before someone would realistically need to take a decent break.
I've done Lake Garda non stop but with 2 drivers, that's the only circumstance that I can envisage it being an issue, but I'm not going to make a day to day car choice over an odd trip that happens once every few years, I'd sort a more suited car out.
Battery tech / density is only going to improve and charger speeds are only going to get faster.
Got an eGolf in March but haven't done any big trips in it yet as coincided with lockdown. We are going up to the Lakes in a couple of weeks for 2 nights so we might use it then and give it a go for stopping at public charge points etc. It is 190 miles from Derby to the Lakes so should need to stop once. Range isn't as good on the eGolf (about 130-140 miles) but we got a good deal on it through work and is ideal for the majority of the city driving/school run etc.
That I could see getting tiresome – you can’t just stop for 5 minutes, fill up and not have to stop for 600-700 miles, which is enough to get from one end of the UK to the other.
How often do you drive from one end of the UK to the other?
If you do it regularly then it’s probably not the vehicle for you, for the rest of the population it’s not an issue.
The i3 we’re about to get should have a range of around 150+ miles, which for the majority of our journeys is more than enough. For the few journeys a year that I head down to Kent to see my mum I’ll take the other car, it’s 450miles, the car will do it on one tank but I’ve never done it without stopping at least once, usually twice.
If I had a Tesla with over 200 miles range and a good charging network I’d take that, a couple of quick stops for a coffee and food would see enough charge to do the journey without it being tiresome.
I don’t need to drive from one side of the USA to the other.
(I’m ignoring the fact I also have a camper van, unfortunately I think large electric vans that would work for us are still a way off).
How often do you drive from one end of the UK to the other?
If you do it regularly then it’s probably not the vehicle for you, for the rest of the population it’s not an issue.
Not that far, but I'll have multiple trips in the next few months that require several hundred mile car journeys - Kent to west country, lakes, scotland, wales.
Lots of people do only use their cars for under 100 mile trips, but a lot also use them for bigger journeys - and the UK is a small country, and not the only car market.
Wasn't saying it'll stop people from buying them, just an interesting point to think about when your trips over, it's lashing it down with rain, you're 500 miles from home and really don't want to have to stop and wait for yet another 40 minute charge...
@ta11pau1 sounds like it’s not for you at the moment then, give it a few years and range will only get better.
Our daily commute is 60 miles, so about 12,000 miles a year commuting before any other journeys. EV is perfect for that, we’ll see a significant saving in fuel costs and I won’t have to stop off at the garage on the way home after a nightshift to fill up with fuel.
Buzzing about the country for work, not so useful.
A 40 minute stop can be worse than no stop, of course, but the scenario where it's a significant issue is not a common one. I think it's overplayed by those who haven't lived with a suitable EV and would like to find a reason to believe it wouldn't suit them. I've driven from Devon to Scotland and back 3 times in ours. It's a slightly different journey to ICE but not so much as makes any real world difference to my day. In fact some of the difference is positive, I felt. I'd have stopped for a break and to get some food anyway. Nowadays it takes maybe an extra half hour, unless with kids in which case we'd probably have been taking the extra break time anyway.
As an aside, over the course of the year, if you're in a long range car with access to genuinely fast charging, and were beforehand doing highish mileage in ICE, you might find that total time at petrol/charging stations is unchanged. I used to fill up every week. I guess that took more than 5 mins on average, plus smelly etc. Now if I stopped for >20 mins once a month my total time taken would be the same.
One scenario where a big disadvantage occurs is high mileage across multiple shorter journeys. Like someone visiting lots of work sites an hour or two apart. In winter average consumption in this scenario is relatively very poor so range is hit quite hard.
For those guys who’ve mentioned the possibility of electric vans, I’ve recently been having some conversations with engine companies who are investing in hydrogen technology (not fuels cells). I‘m far from an expert, but it sound to me like larger vehicles will go that way, rather than battery technology, which is suitable for smaller vehicles.
I’m not looking to derail this useful thread, or start an argument. People seem to be largely either on one side of the electric vehicle debate of the other. And both see very dismissive of the other side’s opinions.
However, the guys I spoke to about the hydrogen engine development were extremely scathing about how dirty lithium batteries were. They were quite adamant that when you look at “cradle to grave”, electric vehicles based on battery technology are considerably more dirty than diesel ones. However, the source of the electricity to charge the battery seemed to be the big deciding factor - and since that is getting cleaner all the time (higher percentage of renewables) then perhaps their argument isn’t so persuasive.
But for sure, those guys were absolutely 100% confident that, at least for construction machinery, alternative fuels are a much, much cleaner alternative to any lithium based technology.
Yeah if the range increases to 300+ and a proper solution for on street charging in rented houses appears I'll definitely consider one as my next car.
Bought a 2.5 year old 2.0 diesel (57mpg on the motorway with a bike on the back) in October 2019 so won't be looking at anything for a few years, so hopefully by that time there'll be something in my price range and the infrastructure will be a bit better.
The i3 we’re about to get should have a range of around 150+ miles,
Had my i3s for a month or so and can confirm the range is accurate. It's a great little thing and perfect for buzzing around locally. I don't think I'll ever get bored of the instant 'go'!
I’ll want one with higher range, possibly the Polestar 2 or the Ford Mustang. Before this year’s madness my work were looking to introduce an EV scheme which would half the price, so I’ll wait until then.
Still enjoying our eGolf. Petrol car is still SORN from lockdown (I'll get around to taxing it in August..) so been using it for everything as we get out and about again.
Family trip down to Dover Castle all OK with a little top up at the restaurant we stopped at on on the homeward leg. Then this weekend we dropped off the kids with their grandparents and went away for the night for a Stonehenge visit, about 350 miles in all. Easy with a quick stop at the services on the way down, hotel had charging, then another quick stop by Virginia Water on the way home. Actually walked for a bit longer than planned so the car was just about full when we got back to it.
No waiting around, no broken chargers, no issues so far. Rapid charging cost about a tenner for that distance. I still plan big journeys, and pretty conservatively too, but not been inconvenienced by it. Took it as a 2 year lease to see if this was "enough" range for us - while more is definitely nicer, I'm not clamouring for a Telsa or eNiro or something. Currently thinking if we bought a car at the end of this lease something like a 28kWh Ioniq would do us fine.
Slightly different to most on this thread but I got an old Nissan Leaf for the sole purpose of driving 2 miles to the train station and back, 1 mile to the super market and back, B&Q / Tip / into town etc. It is a second car (3rd in fact) and serves to protect the engines on my nice cars from short cold running trips.
I made this review after a couple of week with it :
I actually feel slightly better towards it now. It is so simple and inoffensive I tend to use it without really noticing it. This is very different to my other cars where I actually enjoy the driving process.
The biggest shock to me was how few times I actually need to use one of the petrol cars because of range anxiety. The occasional trip up to see my mother, the odd trip out around the New Forest at the weekend but that's about it. for £5K it is a really good second car but I still think I could get the petrol equivalent (Nissan Note?) for probably £2K so I am paying £3K for the experience.
MG 5 estate reviews out today, probably the most appealing MTBer EV yet. Golf/Astra estate size, 214 miles on WLTP test, 80kW charging, £25k (which will probably get discounted a bit more). Looks decent.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/mg/5-ev-electric-estate/
They were quite adamant that when you look at “cradle to grave”, electric vehicles based on battery technology are considerably more dirty than diesel ones.
Batteries don't get dropped off by the battery fairy, and cells degrade. Cell life is being increased though, it's a thing that can definitely improve. When cell life is longer that cradle-to-grave balance will tilt way more in favour of electric.
They were quite adamant that when you look at “cradle to grave”, electric vehicles based on battery technology are considerably more dirty than diesel ones.
I am not electric vehicle fan believing them to be the wrong answer to the wrong question but I really do not think this is true. In a country with a relatively dirty electricity supply they are a bit better. In a country with a cleaner electricity supply they are a chunk better
fossil fuel power stations IIRC produce less pollution per unit of energy than an ICE due to running more efficiently even after transmission losses. renewables even less. Nuclear - it depends on your views on the waste. Its really very hard to compare
Seen an ID3 yesterday which is what I was originally was considering but they were delayed massively. Looked pretty nice on the outside couldn’t really tell on the inside as it was covered in condensation but looked Ok.
Woo hoo, $25 000 Tesla due next year (unless Elon Musk is just making shit up).
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/18/elon-musk-tesla-could-produce-a-25000-car-in-3-years--.html
Mrs BOAS wants a Mini-e. We test drove it and it was a fun little car with plenty of 'go' and nice handling. Anyone got any real-life experience?
That $25,000 Tesla is 3 years away according to Elon Musk, so that's probably 4 plus years.
That $25,000 Teasla is 3 years away according to Elon Musk, so that’s probably 4 plus years.
That article was published in 2018, so next year if Musk is to be believed. Obviously, he just makes shit up whenever he feels like it, so 4 years from now is less improbable than 3 years from 2018.
We've got a BMW i3s and think it's ace. Great on the school run and for buzzing about town + the range has been fine for what we need. Lack of meetings due to Covid means it's not getting as many long trips in but my 22 mile work commute is very peaceful. I use the comfort settings more than I thought too as they really do make a difference to how it drives.
The 3 years was actually what came out of Elon Musk's shareholder Battery day yesterday 22nd September 2020
You can watch the whole presentation here https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-battery-day-recap/
The 3 years was actually what came out of Elon Musk’s shareholder Battery day
yesterday 22nd September 2020in August 2018
FTFY
https://electrek.co/2018/08/17/tesla-cheaper-25000-electric-car-elon-musk/
EVs are substantially cleaner (cradle to grave) than a Diesel and will pay back the CO2 involved in their manufacturing/disposal in ~40k miles vs 22k miles for a modern small petrol or diesel. The figure assumes the car is ran on green energy and that the battery is recycled at EOL, same as the car. From 40k miles onwards, it can be totally green so long as that's how you buy you electricity.
@tjagain - why? They reduce polution, even when power for them is generated in gas burning power stations - carbon capture and storage is possible at a powerstation, not on a vehicle. They're also a step in the right direction.
1. Get people interested in EVs.
2. Get people into EVs
3. Make it a stipulation that those with EVs use only more expensive green power generation
4. Channel the extra money into more renewables.
Side benefits - most of the epople I know who own EVs drive better, more considerately and consider their actions in a car more. They anticipate better as they want to regen rather than brake, they accelerate slower (once they've gotten over the buzz that an electric car can give) because its more peaceful/sedate. it becomes a mindset, not just a car and a driver.
Of course there are idiots (mostly in Tesla's) but there always will be.
My greatest sadness in all of this is that we had a real chance to change the automobile, to make it light, efficient, fit for purpose, but Tesla's constant persuit of speed, power and range has tuned them into really big, really heavy electric monsters.
I bought my I3 because it was designed like an EV should be. What range is mostly adequate? How can we make it as light as possible? How much more efficient cant we make it whilst still making it look good (or, as I know the looks aren't favourable to some... at the vesy least interesting? etc.
FTFY
> https://electrek.co/2018/08/17/tesla-cheaper-25000-electric-car-elon-musk/
@hols2 - he said the $25000 Will be ready in 3 years and he said it YESTERDAY. It doesn't matter what he said in 2018 other than he perhaps should have said "5 years" in 2018.
18 months, 13K miles with a BMW i3S and still loving it.
Probably need some new rear tyres soon.
It doesn’t matter what he said in 2018 other than he perhaps should have said “5 years” in 2018.
It does matter. He's a bullshitter and just says whatever suits him at the time. Let's face it, nobody really believes there'll be a 25K Tesla in 3 years.
he said the $25000 Will be ready in 3 years and he said it YESTERDAY. It doesn’t matter what he said in 2018 other than he perhaps should have said “5 years” in 2018.
How long for those sausages Eton?
It does matter. He’s a bullshitter and just says whatever suits him at the time. Let’s face it, nobody really believes there’ll be a 25K Tesla in 3 years.
He's promised Full Self-Driving cars by Christmas
https://www.ccn.com/consumer-report-tesla-self-driving-bloatware/
It does matter. He’s a bullshitter and just says whatever suits him at the time.
Perhaps, but through force of will and personality he's accomplished an awful lot of what other people said was bullshit at the time. Not many others can make the same claim. Whilst I don't particularly like Mr Musk, I can't help but admire what he's done to positively disrupt the automotive and space sectors for the better.
I mean, if you didn't at the very least smile when this happened, you're absolutely dead inside.
I was at a bar in a hotel in Germany and the whole room gathered around my laptop to watch. When they finally touched down the cheers and screams in the place was utterly incredible.
Everyone said he was a bullshitter when he said we was going to build re-usable, self landing rockets...
MG 5 estate reviews out today, probably the most appealing MTBer EV yet. Golf/Astra estate size, 214 miles on WLTP test, 80kW charging, £25k (which will probably get discounted a bit more). Looks decent.
looks bloody hopeless as a bike wagon if you ask me. Might be good if you have lots of small things..
^^^^That's epic in its crapness.
That is absolutely useless! Why are the seats at 45 degrees when folded?! There's more practical space in my Tesla M3.. and that's a saloon!
it might not be obvious from that pic, but it appears the boot sill is ~20 cm above the boot floor as well..
Everyone said he was a bullshitter when he said we was going to build re-usable, self landing rockets…
The Apollo lunar module was a self-landing rocket. It landed on the moon in 1969. Re-usable rockets aren't anything new either. That was part of the rationale behind the Space Shuttle, which was the worst decision NASA ever made - it sucked up the entire space budget on a childish dream of a spaceship that could fly on schedule like a commuter airliner. It would have been much cheaper to have just used single-use rockets.
Musk is like Steve Jobs. He doesn't really invent anything, he's good at imagining how existing technology could be improved, marketing it to gullible fools, then using the money to hire engineers to do the hard work of making things work.
it might not be obvious from that pic, but it appears the boot sill is ~20 cm above the boot floor as well..
Looks like most estates if you take out the false floor. Not clear if it'll come with one or not.
@Drac, is that eTron through the NHS scheme with Knowlefleet? Just looking at that option, looks like a good deal.
Is servicing and insurance included too?
No it’s NHS Fleet Solutions but yes it’s an all inclusive package.
Worth watching:
Sounds like the boot is maybe a shade under golf estate size...
Apparently the poverty spec' MG5 will be beating Mr Musk on price by 3 years then?
I could get into the idea of an MG if it's an affordable family waggon with some range.
The Apollo lunar module was a self-landing rocket. It landed on the moon in 1969.
1. It wasn't self landing at all, a very skilled pilot and co-pilot landed it.
2. Landing in 1/10th gravity is a lot easier than earth normal
Re-usable rockets aren’t anything new either. That was part of the rationale behind the Space Shuttle, which was the worst decision NASA ever made – it sucked up the entire space budget on a childish dream of a spaceship that could fly on schedule like a commuter airliner. It would have been much cheaper to have just used single-use rockets.
1. The space shuttle as a means to ferry people was a very good idea - that was NASA's idea. Making it big enough to deploy and retrieve large payloads - that was the Airforce. The latter requirement made it uneconomical and most of that cost was the repair of the massive heatshield.
2. The space shuttle also brought satellites down from orbit for repair and re-launch. You can't do that with a disposable or even a re-usable rocket.
Musk is like Steve Jobs. He doesn’t really invent anything, he’s good at imagining how existing technology could be improved, marketing it to gullible fools, then using the money to hire engineers to do the hard work of making things work.
1. If that's not the perfect combination of a Technologist and a Leader, I don't know what is.
2. How are NASA gullible WRT to C3PO? How is the Airforce gullible in giving SpaceX 40% of their proprietary launches in a RFP which force ULA to cut their costs by over 60% and improve their rockets too? How are the people driving around in Tesla cars gullible?
Musk may not be an inventor, but Tesla/SpaceX/Boring's 700+ Patents, their (frankly ludicrous) share price show that the companies started and fostered under his leadership are innovating and inventing at a staggering pace.
Loath him all you want, but you can't help but admire his drive and vision.
I currently drive a VW T6 Kombi, diesel, obviously, and it is the perfect vehicle for work, my question though, when will a suitable vehicle be available to replace this? It's 4 1/2 years old and perfectly fine, and I intend to keep it for at least another year or two, but come the time to change, what will I realistically be buying? another diesel? hybrid?
Oh, and it needs to have at least a 400 mile range.
Does that rear seat come out of the MG easily? Even the dealer was surprised when I removed the rear seat back of the Zoé in about 30 seconds. Two 27,5 enduro MTBs with the wheels off go in along with camping gear
andy8442 > the EMP2 vans (Citroen Dispatch, Peugeot Expert, Vauxhall Vivaro) have electric versions available very soon. Think all have crewvan versions, plus the full passenger (windows, 8/9 seat) versions too.
Looking at £42k for a bigger battery crewvan Expert though, and that’s only 205 miles WLTP range. So unless your usage (or local restrictions) really suits electric, probably a non-starter.
400 mile range vans probably a way off, the extra weight/bulk/cost of battery becomes problematic. The EMP2 vans have 100kw charging so for the bigger battery you’re looking at 45 mins for a 20-80% rapid charge (125ish miles of range added). So a couple of charges, 70-80 mins total to cover 400 miles. Wouldn’t want to do it daily, probably ok for the occasional long journey.
Or the T7 will be along next year, meant to be PHEV from the off. Will suit if you do small distances frequently and can plug in a lot, but also do big journeys easily (albeit less efficiently).
Batteries don’t get dropped off by the battery fairy, and cells degrade. Cell life is being increased though, it’s a thing that can definitely improve. When cell life is longer that cradle-to-grave balance will tilt way more in favour of electric.
Cells do degrade, but EV batteries are made up of a shitload of 18650 cells, where any degraded cells can be replaced, or the cells recycled into domestic storage batteries.
Tesla have recently announced a million-mile EV battery, which might be a bit optimistic, but there’s at least one example I’ve read about a Tesla S rental car that was showing a charge issue, which turned out to be software based, but the battery was changed anyway. The battery had done 300,000 miles, between San Francisco and LA on a regular basis, and showed no sign of degradation.
How many people are ever going to see a million-mile car? Or even 300,000?
Tesla have also just announced a new battery tech which should result in cheaper EV batteries, and the new Tesla S Plaid (odd name, hinting perhaps at grunge rock?), which will allegedly have a 512 mile range, which is equivalent to my diesel Skoda, which usually gets around that from a single tank, and which has reached the grail of EV range - although the thought of 1000-mile range from a single charge is hugely appealing; I could charge once every four months just for my work commute!
the new Tesla S Plaid (odd name, hinting perhaps at grunge rock?)
Spaceballs innit
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1. It wasn’t self landing at all, a very skilled pilot and co-pilot landed it.
No, it was landed by the computer with radar guidance. The pilot was there to monitor that everything was ok and could override the computer if necessary, but the landing module was flown by computer.
their (frankly ludicrous) share price show that the companies started and fostered under his leadership are innovating and inventing at a staggering pace.
Their share price rocketed up because Musk promised fully self-driving cars (and thus autonomous taxis) by the end of this year.
https://www.ccn.com/consumer-report-tesla-self-driving-bloatware/
If you read that article, you'll see that Musk was bullshitting again.
Last year, Musk promised to unveil one million robotaxis by the end of 2020. But FSD Capability is nowhere near reaching full autonomy, and no country has authorized the widespread testing of self-driving cars.
blobonastick
Mrs BOAS wants a Mini-e. We test drove it and it was a fun little car with plenty of ‘go’ and nice handling. Anyone got any real-life experience?Posted 1 day ago
I'm sure it'll be a lovely thing if you like the Mini image, and the slightly shorter-than-average range fits into your life, which it probably would as a second car.
In other news, I parked next to the slightly forgotten-about Countryman PHEV the other day. only 25-30miles electric only, but unusually it's also Diesel electric, with a 1.5L three pot. Only been out a year or two, but second hand they are about 22K, so I recon a bit of really good value for someone with the right usage pattern.
My Electric want. My son was gutted that only French 14 years olds get to drive them.
The pilot was there to monitor that everything was ok and could override the computer if necessary, but the landing module was flown by computer.
Isn't that what happened on Apollo 11?
Isn’t that what happened on Apollo 11?
Basically, it was the first real fly-by-wire system. The control systems were too complex for a human to control, so they used an automatic landing system with a semi-automatic mode. They couldn't map the landing sites in enough detail to be confident of the exact spot to land, so the pilots had to identify a good spot to touch down on and guide the module to that that spot. To the pilots, it felt like landing a helicopter, but they were actually just telling the flight computer where to land the module. The computer was controlling the engines and reaction systems.
If the moon had been mapped in detail, they would have known exactly where they wanted to set down. In that case, the computer would have landed the landing module without needing any human correction. This was 50 years before Elon Musk put on a show of a rocket landing on a perfectly prepared flat platform.
Basically, it was the first real fly-by-wire system. The control systems were too complex for a human to control, so they used an automatic landing system with a semi-automatic mode. They couldn’t map the landing sites in enough detail to be confident of the exact spot to land, so the pilots had to identify a good spot to touch down on and guide the module to that that spot.
They knew exactly where they were going to land. The Eagle's flight control computer overshot by 4 miles and Armstrong could see it was going to land them on the side of a crater so with about 30s of fuel left he took over manual control picked a spot and landed the sucker himself.
Hols. I don't know what your problem is with Musk. He might be and a$$hole but he had the vision, determination and resources to start both Space X and Tesla. So what if he hired talented engineers to fulfill his vision. If they were so brilliant why couldn't they have done it themselves. Tell me what you have achieved that even comes close.
Hols. I don’t know what your problem is with Musk.
He's a bullshitter. Nothing he says can be taken seriously. He just makes shit up as he feels like.
For example, the Thai cave rescue paedo thing was disgraceful. WTF was Musk thinking that he needed to get involved in the first place? Then, when he got told to stop being a dick, he accused a guy on the ground of being a paedophile.
Explanation for this seems to be that he's an overstressed asshole who gets off his face on drugs and just posts random shit on the internet, then unleashes lawyers when he gets called out for being an asshole. Does not inspire confidence in Tesla's long term prospects.
I think it takes a lot more than bullshit to start a car company with a market cap larger than General Motors and Ford which has electric driveline tech ahead of any other competitor and start a rocket company that is sending hundreds of satellites into orbit and routinely landing and recycling boosters and first stages.
I think you have to separate people’s personalities from their accomplishments. Just because Musk is an asshole doesn’t mean Tesla will fail.
Isaac Newton was an asshole but we still use his laws of motion
Explanation for this seems to be that he’s an overstressed asshole who gets off his face on drugs and just posts random shit on the internet, then unleashes lawyers when he gets called out for being an asshole. Does not inspire confidence in Tesla’s long term prospects.
I think he might post on here.
I think it takes a lot more than bullshit to start a car company with a market cap larger than General Motors and Ford which has electric driveline tech
I'll introduce you to Trevor Milton sometime
Fair comment but Nikola have yet to make a vehicle or even build a factory to make a vehicle
I3 owner for 4.5 years now. Still absolutely love the little thing! Such fun to drive and amazingly low consumption. Absolutely the best car BMW have ever made (and surefire future classic....)
Has anyone seen one of these?
We’ve got one come in at work, for possible refurbishment, it’s an Arval lease car. Never seen one before, a Toyota Mira. Hydrogen fuel cell technology, which there’s been a lot of talk about. I couldn’t help thinking, and mentioning to various of my work colleagues, that if it runs out of fuel, we’re buggered, ‘cos we’ve got no way of filling it! It’s still got 72 miles range, but I’m not sure if there’s a hydrogen filling point anywhere near that range.
I guess it would go out on a transporter. Interesting car, though.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are "interesting" but a CO2 disaster. If the hydrogen to fuel them is made from natural gas they are worse than just burning the natural gas as LPG. If the Hydrogen is made from electrolysis then they consume far more electricty than a battery electric vehicle charged from the grid. Every study I've read damns them in terms of CO2 emissons unless there are no fossil fuels in the energy generation mix and an electricity surplus.
On range, I have to admit I roll my eyes a bit at the frequency of the "I need 400 mile range" comments. Certainly, some genuinely do, but I'd wager they're much smaller in number then either the consumer reaction or the classic journalists impression would suggest.
I hope it won't be too long now before people start properly to consider their needs in terms of EV range against the small compromises it requires. It's a pretty unusual lifestyle that benefits so much more from a 400 mile range EV than say a 300 mile range one, or even a bit less, as to make staying with ICE worth the environmental cost.
It becomes an issue if it has to be done in the day and if there are no options for charging along the way without major compromise. Sure, charging infrastructure is poor right now but even now a 45 min stop on the way home is often no bad thing on a day with a lot of hours of driving in it, and both availability and speed of charging options are improving all the time.
I think the longest range options on the market will get more and more capacity but the average range bought might plateau at a surprisingly low number once we have a bit more experience under our belts. The extra environmental impact of buying the 400 over the 300 mile range car BEV will continue to be significant too.
My EV has a realistic day-to-day range of about 200-250 miles without taking risks with battery health or fearing not getting there, and frankly the charging stops I have on the kind of long day I need them are usually a welcome break.
Fair comment but Nikola have yet to make a vehicle or even build a factory to make a vehicle
That was my point tbh. Their stock value is X billion, GM Motors have bought into them and yet they have absolutely nothing. Their prototype was pushed down a slight incline to give the impression it actually had motors driving it, it was all a con.
Well to wheel efficiency of a fuel cell vehicle as about 25-35% so about the same as a diesel. Well to wheel efficiency of a BEV is 2-3 times that. FCEV really isn't the answer unless its for applications where batteries can't deliver enough energy density e.g. shipping and maybe long haul trucking.
Their prototype was pushed down a slight incline to give the impression it actually had motors driving it, it was all a con.
So different from Tesla which was my point.