[Closed] The art of negotiation

Start the conversation with what's your best price on that, then regardless of what they say, say that's a shame as I am quite interested, but not at that price, so what's there best price, and start from there

Basically, don't be embarrassed or scared to take the mickey (especially if they ask you what you want to pay for it, and say make them an offer even if its silly then say 15K), and be completely happy to walk away.

Use phases like what's your best price, is that your best offer etc, and everytime they drop the price, bank it and whittle them down some more, then once they are at the bottom, find some faults and screw them down some more ...... then ask if that includes servicing/MOT/tank of fuel, if they say yes, ask them how much without, then with the lower price say that's what you were thinking of with the extras.

If you have been talking/haggling for less than 35 minutes you can get some more off, and finally If you want to be a complete git, take a woman with you and get her to cry as that knocks a bit off as well.

With those tactic I would expect to get at least 20-25% off the screen price + extras thrown in.

LOL @ richc, A man after my own heart!

Some of the spec might really appeal / other things a waste of time – work out what you want first.

Then, as above (go as extreme as you want), see what you can get. It’s a good idea to have different suppliers in mind. Line up the least convenient first and see what you can get, by the time you get round to the most convenient supplier you will have a good idea of what is available and what you should be paying.

p.s. the more people you approach the more likely you are to get a good deal.

richc is dead on but make sure the salesman knows you're interested and a real buyer before then and are not just a tyre kicker.

You also have to make sure you're talking to the right person, when my GF bought her last car the guy she spoke to first usually worked in another area of the business and so wouldn't/couldn't negotiate. When she found the right guy he did.

Key thing is to come accross as a serious buyer, ie someone who WILL be spending money in the next few days or weeks.
Personallly I avoid the use of the term "best price" as this then sets the seller up as any further discount makes their "best price" a false term. I use "how much were you realistically expecting" etc.

Also don't be afraid to walk away and leave it a few days. They will often call you.

A mix of logic and emotion is the best way, but don't be insincere, dealers are well used to dealing with this and if you make it too obvious then they will go into defensive mode.

I have a friend, who every time he does his weekly shop at a supermarket askes a number of these:

discount for cash
how much!
is that your best price
are you sure that price is right
any discount on any of these

I am sure he would not ask every time if he did not hit sometimes 😉

He's a nightmare in a pub too!

Also don't be fooled into thinking that "cash" will get you a discount.

Dealers make good money selling finance, and cash deals often aren't as attractive.

Obviously they still want to sell you a vehicle, but unless they are into fiddling their tax return, offering "cash" as an incentive won't sway them much.

Indeed, leading them into thinking you will be taking finance is generally a good way of getting further discounts.

Thanks, great advice from the subtle to the more direct i.e. blunt.

I guess that he'll have to read the individual situation, for example, a private seller may have an unrealistically high opinion of what their van is worth and wont be swayed (of course non of those type of people on the STW classifieds). The dealers may have a more realistic expectation but are trying to make a living (but preferably not from this sale).

A large part of it will come down to confidence and honesty in what he's saying i.e is there any point in saying that 'can't afford to go more than £28k' then when the reply is 'well I can't let it go for less than £29k' to start negotiating around the £29k. I'll suggest that we line up two or three viewings over the same weekend, starting with the least preferred option, get them as far down as possible, but then ask for a little bit more off, then make it clear to them that we're off to view other potential vans and we may get back to them. It may be that one of the vans will be exactly what he wants and will be prepared not to negotaite so hard for that one but at least he'll have options.

A large part of it will come down to confidence and honesty in what he's saying i.e is there any point in saying that 'can't afford to go more than £28k'

Personally I wouldn't be starting at 28k! honestly start at 18-20k and let the salesman haggle you up, remember that you can't drop your offer price only raise it, just like to sales bloke can't raise an offer price after he has lowered it.

If you get less than 15% off the screen price you have paid to much! (personally I am happy with around 20% off big purchases) remember you aren't trying to be mates with the saleman, and any money you save you can spend on holidays, as its very easy to spend, but much more difficult to earn.

NB: The tears thing is a tip from a buyer at work, and she is a brutal negotiator and you would be amazed how well it works on British men; as they crack pretty much immediately. Don't try it on Europeans though! as they end up crying with the woman, which is a nightmare......

To see one in action check out the South African dude on "Don't Tell the Bride" on BBC3 last night, he was incredible, a real ball breaker.

Research, research and more research. Find out what you want, what you need and more importantly don't need. Narrow it down to a 2 or 3 specific models and be very aware of what they are selling for. Check the magazines, forums, eBay, Caravan Club, Auto Trader etc and know what you are talking about.
That way you know if the screen price is realistic or optimistic.
If you can get a 25% discount on a realistic screen price from a Dealer be very suspicious as they don't usually have that kind of margin in an honest vehicle. Private sellers are some times a better bet as they generally haven't recently shelled out large amounts of cash for the van and having cash waved under the nose can make sellers crumble if they are in a financial tight spot.

I'm sorry, Richc, but If you were buying something from me when I was in the motortrade, I'd have binned you off as a customer way before you'd have chance to get half of that in!

Remember that, yes, it is a good time to buy and it is a buyers market. But for the love of god, be reasonable. If you went looking at a £20k car on a forecourt, would you reasonably expect to get it for £15k? I should hope not! Yes there are deals to be had, but no those which will run a business into the ground.

The salesperson will not appreciate a customer who is taking the proverbial out of them. I'd go down the other tack and use a consultative approach. Don't be scared of the sales techniques. Talk to a sales exec, describe what you want. Make them feel important and respected by asking for their HELP! They will deal with these things day in, day out and have much more experience and knowledge than you! If a salesperson feels valued, you'll probably get a bunch of discount before you even start negotiations!

That's my 2p. I prepare to be flamed by those who think all sales people are greedy, heartless, good for nothing SOBs

I'm sorry, Richc, but If you were buying something from me when I was in the motortrade, I'd have binned you off as a customer way before you'd have chance to get half of that in!

Then you would have lost a sale, which is fine if you can afford it..... but most businesses find turning away cash very hard, especially as they will still be making money on you even with a 20% discount on screen price and some money in your pocket is better than none.

Always remember when I got my first car a friend of the family came along with me - he was a car salesman (and ex mechanic so knew what he was looking at) and certainly opened my eyes to negotiation.

Basically don't look too keen - keen enough to want to buy it, not enough that you're going to buy it regardless.

Do your homework, have another option (even if you don't want option B) - looking at a Seat, tell the guy you've seen a good deal on a Toyota or something.

Oh, and don't fall for the old "I need to check with my sales manager" routine - if the guy can't sell the car then ask for someone who can.

Sorry, Rich, but where do you get your facts from on the profit margins?

Take cars for example. It was rare we had more than £1200 across any car on the pitch.

My father worked for 40 years in the motor trade, from small garages upto large main dealerships (he's retired now).

So I am very aware of the profit margins and how to negotiate with car dealers.

Car dealers usually price the cars to include a 'deal' as its a market that expects a bit of haggling and the hope they they end up dealing with people who are to embarrassed to grow some and negotiate hard.

I see your point, but I still think 20-25% off the screen price is dreamland.

If he is going round europe, I'd be looking for a left hand drive model which may be worth less in the UK than a right hand drive equivalent. Especially if he is "flying solo" and has no one to look out when overtaking tractors or negotiating tiny city streets.

Left hand drive "euro" imports might be a better bet, although will probably have some weird spec choices.

Euro models will have euro spec electrics and water connections etc etc not sure if there any difference to UK.

I'd be tempted to fly to Germany and buy one there instead.

Try Greece fro cheap left hand drive maybee? + nice drive home.

Wot richc said ^.

When I read your posts its like talking to my father who is ace at negotiating.

Never be afraid to walk away. Remind yourself constantly hard it was to earn the money. Always make out you intend to finance the deal as they make money on you signing up. Pull the rug last minute and pay cash.
They may be nice to your face but most car salesmen I know regard you as fair game. Most would also sell their granny...

Enjoy the game.

I think all the negotiating has been covered, so I'll comment on engines/chassis.

Pay the extra for a Merc (ideally Sprinter) chassis, or at least VW, even if it means buying an older one. Merc spare part backup is the best for older vehicles, and their light commercial diesel engines are pretty much bomb proof. The engines do have a couple weaknesses (injector washers/blow-by being the biggest issue), but usually go 100'000s of miles with minimal repairs. Merc panel vans might be more prone to visible rust, but they'll still last longer than the other options.
VW is almost as good, as LT (96ish onwards) vans are essentially Merc Sprinters, but with a VW engine and an antiquated looking dash, and their engines aren't as good as Mercs.

I'd avoid any southern european chassis, as Fiat/PAG/Renault have horrendous parts back-up. I've seen us having issues getting parts for 6 year old vans, and once past 10 year old, it's not unknown to have to wait weeks for parts, if they're available at all. Merc, other than the odd part supply issue for strange parts, will have any part within a couple days, pretty much anywhere in Europe.

Iveco part supply falls somewhere in the middle (unless you happen to need something during the annual Turin warehouse holiday!), however the Daily chassis I'd describe as agricultural. It does the job, but is a pretty expensive vehicle to maintain.

And incase anybody is wondering why more people don't buy a decent chassis in the first place, it's entirely down to cost. Last figures I heard, was a Merc chassis was about 10k dearer than a PAG/Fiat one, and for your typical motorhome buyer, they don't think about part supply. They only think about the £££ until a few years later when they're beloved purchase is stuck off the road while waiting for some part, that nobody can supply.

Merc spare part backup is the best for older vehicles

I am not sure you will get 20-25 % off but I am happy to go with richc and watch as it sounds entertaining

Also, when you have decided on make, model etc. Go into the dealership on the last Sunday of the month. The sales person will be looking to up the months sales figures...and be therefore more amenable to a good deal.

Regarding cash not being as attractive as finance, I would say "If you can do me a good price, then the money will be paid in full and in your bank account by the next morning". ie play on the idea that its less risk.

but at a price a big one

But at least you can get the parts, plus the price premium generally isn't that big compared with other manufacturers.
And what would you rather have, paying more for a part, or not being able to get said part at all?

Unless you are dealing with the owner of a (slightly dodgy) business or private owner of the vehicle, cash makes no difference. In fact most dealers prefer their own finance as they earn from it.

Car dealers usually price the cars to include a 'deal' as its a market that expects a bit of haggling and the hope they they end up dealing with people who are to embarrassed to grow some and negotiate hard.