Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
At the moment EV cars are a novelty. Currently there is not enough infrastructure to support large numbers and the user is effectively subsidised.
for me there is no charging point at work or at home and as I regularly do journeys of more than 300miles the range is too low. For me to be interested full charge range of 500 miles but a 15min fast charge for 300 would be acceptable. Cost for a 500mile journey in “fuel” would need to be below £25 for comparison.
The cost of the vehicle and lack of service support is also a massive risk. I can get almost any part for my car overnight and installed the next day. Once Ford or the like have a car and considering they can use all Tesla IP for free it should not be too long they have a massive advantage.
As for fires the electric car Richard Hammond crashed caught fire again after it was put out. So for sure there will be some safety concerns to be address as there are always unknowns with a new system. All it will take is one bad batch of batteries and the roads are clear of drivers for a bit...
The EV wave is coming. There is alot of EV infrastructure going in near where I am..oK there was sweet FA before, but there are signs it's happening. two years ago my local council was dishing out free EV home charging points, so I've got one in my garage. It takes time but in a couple of years time there will be alot more. It's probably more convenient for an EV driver to find a charging point than someone running their car on LPG finding a garage with LPG.
My wife is looking to change her car and I'm definitely trying to push her towards an EV or at least a Hybrid...She's not that keen but its a work in progress.
Ultimately we're the consumers and we have to make that leap and go for it and as soon as the demand starts to rise then the infrastructure will appear almost overnight. We need to take back control as consumers and stop writing for governments to wipe our backsides for us.
As for fires the electric car Richard Hammond crashed caught fire again after it was put out.
Yes, that thing smouldered for days after the crash as each cell overloaded and went up one by one as they couldn't fully isolate the battery pack. It's immature technology...just as cars were for decades as people were transitioning from horse and cart to horseless carriages. We can't wait for the technology to fully mature...it will take decades.
On the way out - it doesn't look like it as yet
There may also be concern about how the technology ages. With an ICE car, if you maintain it (and are lucky, unlike some people on here), then the parts on there should last for years and the vehicle will carry on rolling at about the same level of performance.
With pure EV cars, I can't see that being the case. Take a mobile phone... After three years of normal use, the talk and standby time is, what, half its initial one? Is there data on long term use of EV cars to show how well they retain the capacity to travel, or are the early adopters all running three year leases so that the problem belongs to the next in line?
How many here would consider buying a 30k mile three/four year old EV, knowing that the battery tech is both built in to the chassis and likely to be previous generation?
Take a mobile phone… After three years of normal use, the talk and standby time is, what, half its initial one? Is there data on long term use of EV cars to show how well they retain the capacity to travel
There are teslas in the US with 200k miles with average battery degragation of 6% ICE cars would be in the scrapheap by then
I'm certainly in the camp of I'd only lease an EV car at the moment. Not sure I'd entirely trust battery degradation figures reported by the Tesla itself either, or did they do real world distance comparisons in comparable conditions to arrive at that figure?
It's a huge shame that the EV charging points going in for cars won't work for e bikes
Nasher, I'd be interested in seeing the source for that. I know my Macbook battery has decent health still, but I don't think it is fair to say most ICE cars would be scrap if the test was lab based.
Not sure I’d entirely trust battery degradation figures reported by the Tesla itself either,
They're from users rather than Tesla itself.
The charging is very intelligent. Normal charge is only to 80%, which makes a huge difference to Li-ion cell life expectancy. You have to select Range mode to charge to 100% as doing so will degrade the cells slightly more and most of the time you don't need 100% range. This means they're getting exceptionally good battery ageing.
It’s probably more convenient for an EV driver to find a charging point than someone running their car on LPG finding a garage with LPG.
Not from my mate's experience running a car on LPG vs the Guardian article on running a Tesla from Brighton to Edinburgh it's not. Plus with LPG you can just chuck petrol in and have higher running costs in a pinch.
So, you basically use an EV for short(er) journeys and use ICE for longer ones if you want to max out efficiency?
Not from my mate’s experience running a car on LPG vs the Guardian article on running a Tesla from Brighton to Edinburgh it’s not. Plus with LPG you can just chuck petrol in and have higher running costs in a pinch.
I know it's incidental but the fuel station here removed LPG as it wasn't being used enough, there's 3 charge points in town.
Over here it's mainly E85 rather than LPG. Many, many EV charging points and plugs though.
My old local Morrison's had LPG.
So, you basically use an EV for short(er) journeys and use ICE for longer ones if you want to max out efficiency
This is basically how I use ours. Although the “short(er)” journeys will get longer with every upgrade in tech.
We have the i3 with the bigger battery and range extender, very rarely used but gives the confidence to go to the max distances. We use that for every journey we can up to say 120miles, I’ve never charged it anywhere but home so infrastructure isn’t a problem. I’d say would cover 95+% of main traveling we do. We then have an ICE vehicle for the rest. We’ve had it 18months or so and done 23k in it and it’s been perfect for reliability. The ICE car (same age) has done about 5k, also gets used when we need 2 cars, I’m thinking of changing this to PHEV as most of its trips are less than 20 miles, but will cover the longer stuff as well.
im hoping EV’s take a while to catch on, because I’m getting the benifits of cheap running. If everyone went EV tomorrow the government would have a massive budget hole from fuel duty and would have to fill it some how.
Yup very few EV offer a good long range but the next gen ones are certainly getting there. I've said it before having switched to hybrid last year from decades of diesel I’m not going back to ICE. Certainly looking at full EV next time with the offering of the VW ID seems it will do the distance I was waiting for which is around 300 miles range. BP has bought into the charging infrastructure so there will be big roll outs coming soon enough.
If you had to choose just one car though, what would you choose? Based on what you have, the long journeys would prohibit keeping the EV and would mean a PHEV or an ICE.
For me, the journeys I do are either bike round town, or trips with the dogs out into the country over distances that are too long for an EV on one charge (300+ miles). An EV would fit with the first if I wanted to go a short distance (visit relatives about an hour away, shopping), but not the second.
They’re from users rather than Tesla itself
Yes but isn't it users just recording what range the Tesla is telling them it has at full charge after a period of time and comparing it with the range it displayed when new? If so then I'd question how accurate that is over time, whether the cells themselves report back accurately, whether there's some factor built into the calculation that means it's not necessarily a direct comparison figure etc. Li-ion cells degrade even if they're not used, 6% after 5 years of regular use/charging seems almost unbelievably good to me...
Hand on heart I’d honestly go EV and just change my habits. The infrastructure we would need is there. Our long trips are either to London (and surrounding areas) for my wife with work or Suffolk way for her family. With the charging points on the M6 toll and we have a 13amp charger we can just plug in (us a 7Kw at home) both would be okay thanks to the REX. Just need to plan a head more for unexpected trips, but I bet most could be done with a bit of thought. I think this year, other than above, the ICE has been to Swansea, Leeds, Sheffield and the Lakes, all do able with a bit more effort (I was to lazy to bother).
We could do trains for anything out the blue or at the very worst hire a car if I unexpectedly had to go to the top of Scotland for some reason.
We live rural although not to far from a city, so we use the car for lots of trips every day, kids to school, sports stuff with kids, shops, mtb centres (I could get fitter and ride there, but I won’t).
When we started to look at EV’s it was supposed to be the other car and just do some running round, but it turned out to be so good it has just taken over, I will only use the ICE if I absolutely have to.
i honestly drive it with a smug smile on my face. When I drive the ICE I am constantly thinking “that press of the pedal cost me X or Y”.
They won’t be for everyone at the moment, but I don’t encounter any pitfalls at the moment. Since we got ours, 2 friends and my brother (all of whom where very sceptical when I told them we where getting one) have got them.
On the original question, this lays out decent cases both for and against: https://blog.ucsusa.org/josh-goldman/is-tesla-doomed-the-cases-for-and-against-the-electric-vehicle-pioneer
I personally see Tesla becoming a major force in battery manufacturing (and supplying everyone else) but a niche player in cars.
How many here would consider buying a 30k mile three/four year old EV, knowing that the battery tech is both built in to the chassis and likely to be previous generation?
I'd absolutely buy an older Leaf, even at double that age/mileage if I needed a second car for local trips. Those will just keep plodding on, even with a degraded battery they'll still handle the sub-50-mile days that almost all second cars do. The state of health is easy to read via the diagnostics port, and there's already plenty of people familiar with how to pull the battery packs apart and refurbish if it was ever needed (or there's a healthy market for the modules for other things). Looking at the cost of a new battery pack from Nissan is like looking at the cost of an entire new engine for your car from a main dealer, just to fix a minor issue.
We have a plug-in hybrid now but next car (in 18 months or so) very likely to be a full battery EV. Massively more pleasant to drive and now that affordable mainstream cars are going past 40kWh / 150+ miles they can cover almost all of the journeys we do. I can live with adding half an hour to a longer trip (like the annual BPW visit) to top up charge on the way while I grab a coffee or something to eat.
Nissan env200 has been updated with the same 40kWh battery as the new Leaf - a combi one might just be our ideal family car.
Normal charge is only to 80%, which makes a huge difference to Li-ion cell life expectancy.
Also even 100% isn't really 100%; the normal figures quoted for battery capacity is "usable" and not "total" as they generally have a few kwhs extra over so the battery is never full or empty. The Hyundai Kona is advertised as 64kwh but is actually 67kwh.
There are teslas in the US with 200k miles with average battery degragation of 6% ICE cars would be in the scrapheap by then
Where I am currently in the US “normal” mileage is 25k ish a year. A focus size car with 120k still sells for 5k$ and a truck with 150k is considered low mileage. It is expected trucks should do 350k with basic servicing and most people expect a Japanese car to go 200k plus with no issues.
EV may be the future but won’t work for me for a while yet. Too expensive and impractical
I'd say that story is still pretty inconclusive (I'm not a Tesla hater, I'd have one tomorrow if I could afford it). How old is that 300k car? Going by their "up to 17k miles a month" comment it might only be 18 months old.
Also the statement:
“We got our 6% range back with the new battery,” Sonnad said with a laugh. “But had the firmware been updated, we’d be fine and plugging along.”
That's a fairly big leap for me - they had the battery pack replaced! It's wrong to assume the firmware update would have had the same effect.
Until they come up with a way of dealing with the majority parking in the UK, kerbside then i am out.
Li-ion cells degrade even if they’re not used, 6% after 5 years of regular use/charging seems almost unbelievably good to me…
It's over charging which degrades the cells and poor temperature mgmt. Both of which are controlled in an electric car. The whole battery pack has heating / cooling lines running between all the cells and they are very conservatively charged.
So, the very low degradation isn't that amazing. It's just that most Li-ion bike lights hammer the cells with no regard to longevity and thus everyone expects them not to last...
Until they come up with a way of dealing with the majority parking in the UK, kerbside then i am out.
You should visit Scandinavia, they have kerb side plugs for the sump heaters, could easily do the same for charge points....
You should visit Scandinavia, they have kerb side plugs for the sump heaters, could easily do the same for charge points….
I agree the issue can be solved. But until it is there is a major issue. I would also raise one question. Most journeys in the UK are a few miles. most car journeys are basically avoidable, people are just lazy. The right way forward is getting cars out of circulation not creating a "cleaner" car, which isn't really it just pollutes differently. Is the cost of infrastructure better spent in other ways??
Until they come up with a way of dealing with the majority parking in the UK, kerbside then i am out.
Not the majority by a long stretch - only about a quarter of cars are parked on the street. (source)
We have a very odd expectation in this country that you can just take up space on public road by leaving your car on it. You're not allowed to keep a skip on the road without a permit, but a 2m x 5m car is fine. The Japanese, in cities at least, require proof of a place to keep your car (renting a place if necessary) before you can buy one. Limited on-street parking for short-term use but streets cleared overnight.
Until they come up with a way of dealing with the majority parking in the UK, kerbside then i am out.
There are many ways, first up is cars as a service not a owned item.
Next up is taxing personal transportation in a way that reflects it's cost
Most journeys in the UK are a few miles. most car journeys are basically avoidable, people are just lazy.
I agree, but can't ever see it changing...
I agree, but can’t ever see it changing…
In the last 2 decades we have stopped smoking inside, developed the mobile phone, have got rechargeable batteries and motors to the point they move sports cars, changed behaviours on so many levels this one will just take time and taxation.
I live in a place that has less parking than apartments, we do have 2 spaces for shared cars which are used a lot, the next 2 buildings down the road have "building cars" for the residents to use. We can start in the cities where it's needed the most and work from there.
Not the majority by a long stretch – only about a quarter of cars are parked on the street. (source)
Surprised, everywhere i have lived has and large majority of places i have been have relied on street parking. Even new build developments. Only in 50/60s suburbia do you find large numbers of off street parking spaces.
Only in 50/60s suburbia do you find large numbers of off street parking spaces.
And now it would seem.
There's a difference there between properties that have no off-street parking, and those where people own more cars than they have space to store, so they use the street as an overflow. All the new-builds I've visited have at least one off-street space per house, usually a garage too.
"Only in 50/60s suburbia do you find large numbers of off street parking spaces.
And now it would seem."
is that like northern humour ? y'know like funny but with the humour missing ?
"All the new-builds I’ve visited have at least one off-street space per house, usually a garage too."
be nice if the garage and the parking space were more than just a notional offering of something that approximated a space and a garage . all the new builds i looked at were perfect to park your isetta bubble car in but thats a whole other complaint.
No it’s based on the link posted up there. Funny thing though the 50s housing around here didn’t come with off street parking. The south is weird.
and round here in the city the offices around us have more parking than the residential properties despite having good public transport links, the depressing line of cars queuing to get in and out past the tram line each day tells a very sorry tale.
Around my way they limit parking spaces to a fair bit less than than that of the office capacity
Has the joyuous effect of folk abandoning cars in near by streets and having locals feed birds on top of them, which I'm quite sure was not the intended effect
Was that 50/60s suburbia or just houses in general ? They had terraces then too didn't they.
I’ve said this before on other threads regarding EV vs ICE..
I chopped in a Diesel SUV for a Hybrid SUV and there is no looking back for me now. Hybrid’s are simple and effective mixing range and access/use without the issues on Range Anxiety.
There is a blind assumption that’s EVs will take over from ICE vehicles within the next few years, but its both flawed and rose tinted view.
For the majority of people who use vehicles range doesn’t fit within the >250 miles out of EVs, then waiting for an hour or so to recharge to >80% to then continue journeys. It’s impractical and time consuming.
EVs are fine for short journeys, local run arounds where range isn’t an issue and a return to base (home) station is catered for.
Commercial vehicles, commuters and the Services will continue to use ICE for many many years yet, how long? Probably 30 or more.
The main issue I have with EVs is the infrastructure required to make them a viable option. This government (or any other) is leaving the infrastructure requirements and build to commercial interests, who in turn are only interested in providing a service for a charge cost. And those self same commercial providers are not building the power stations or charging points in the high st nor residential street to provide the power... no, currently it’s down to the user to change thier approach to accommodate EV into thier lives or are providing charging points away from home (base) without providing the support for rest or relaxation/.
We are many years away from EV taking over from IVE IMO.
There is a blind assumption that’s EVs will take over from ICE vehicles within the next few years, but its both flawed and rose tinted view.
For the majority of people who use vehicles range doesn’t fit within the >250 miles out of EVs, then waiting for an hour or so to recharge to >80% to then continue journeys. It’s impractical and time consuming.
Based On?
Q5) How often is a car in use or parked?
A5) The average car spends about 80% of the time parked at home, is parked elsewhere for about 16% of the time and is thus only actually in use (ie moving) for the remaining 4% of the time.
Q23) How many people commute to work by car?
A23) There are 26.5 million working people aged 16 – 74 in England and Wales. Of these, 16.7 million people either drive themselves to work (15.3 million) or catch a lift (1.4 million).
In rural areas, nearly three quarters (73.4 per cent) of workers travel by car (whether as driver or passenger). This method of travel also dominates the commute in urban areas (outside of London) with 67.1 per cent of people either driving themselves or catching a lift. Even amongst Londoners, the car is the most popular single mode of travel, used by 29.8 per cent of workers.
The average length of a commuter trip by car/van varies little across English regions and Wales at about ten miles. It is highest in the South East (11.2 miles) and lowest in London (8.6 miles).
https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a5
Journeys under 250 miles are the most common, over 250 is not what most people do.
The main issue I have with EVs is the infrastructure required to make them a viable option.
You see charging points in car parks not, in supermarkets in workplaces, we have huge numbers of roadside properties that deliver fuel to drivers currently.
The vast majority of people could use an EV today for their day to day needs, with a mindset change of not having the car for the 10% of the journeys but the 90% you can save and hire something for when it isn't ideal, bit like the 180mm gravity bike being laboured around 51 weeks of the year because you got o Morzine once a year.
I agree that most people could use an EV for most of their journeys, but it's the ones that do not fit into the bucket for EV use that will cause problems. As with a lot of people on here, I have tried for years to find things that do more than one job well. One bike to do commuting _and_ trails well. One car to do commuting _and_ long journeys. One jacket that is both casual, waterproof _and_ smart (and cheap, but that's another matter!).
The trouble is, the goldilocks car just does not exist yet. So, you need two vehicles. Two lots of insurance, two lots of VED, etc. I don't use a car for getting to work right now, but I do need something that I can fit bikes in and go camping with, which is why I have a van. It spends most of its time parked but, when I need it, it starts and runs and, most importantly hauls a lot of stuff a long distance. I can fill it in minutes and then drive some more. I cannot see an EV or a hybrid that could currently replace it. Hiring a van might be an option, but I can't camp in that.
The trouble is, the goldilocks car just does not exist yet. So, you need two vehicles. Two lots of insurance, two lots of VED, etc.
Not really, £70 got me a brand new astra for 4 days, fully taxed and insured, swallowed 2 bikes, next weekend I have a new transit for 3 days for about £100 (and camp in it), the 2 weekends after that I don't need anything and commuteon the bike or public transport so I don't have anything.
but it’s the ones that do not fit into the bucket for EV use that will cause problems.
Yep, edge cases are not a good reason for dismissing things and saying it won't work for most people. There is a mindset shift in there somewhere. The majority of people do not pack up and go away at weekends, most of the cars in my building are there most days and all weekend, same space just depreciating and getting older. It's an interesting investment choice for a lot of people, if houses did the same....
Halfway house for the Van
https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/specialist-sales/fleet/phev
I would imagine many people on here will remember the UK governments diesel push.
basically the price of diesel was pegged below that of leaded petrol and it was touted as the fuel of the future to drop pollution levels and reduce your travel costs.
fast forward and the rice is still pegged below leaded petrol (it was not transferred to unleaded) and it is suddenly worse than burning baby swans.
all EV is is transferring the pollution. Unless the power is coming from renewable, combined cycle or nuclear it is still pretty poor. Until all new builds (houses, offices, car parks) are mandated to have solar cells, batteries and charging points we are not approaching serious levels of government interest. Mind you with almost 30billion coming from fuel duties I doubt there is so much interest in reducing consumption with massive investments unless there is a monetary payday
Based On?
Knowledge gained from driving.
Journeys under 250miles is not common and not what most people do
Based on?
You may not drive 250miles in one go, plenty do. Plenty of commercial deliveries cover far more in one day than you might in a month. Plenty of services such as ambulances or police cover more than 250miles a day, plenty of Security Services travel more than 250miles a day, plenty of Health Support Services travel more than 250miles a day, plenty of commuters travel more than 250miles a day. I think you need to revisit your statement and think wider than the keyboard.
Plenty of people can’t be bothered with Range Anxiety and hanging around some BP station in the middle of nowhere for hours on end in the cold pissing rain either. And that’s what you expect people to do don’t you? So some service stations on motorways have charging points, but the 2 or 3 that are installed are already busy, and could be busy for at least an hour or so, then add another hour or so for your charge and the user is still hanging around 3 hours later. That’s not speculation, that’s fact. And the fact is Everyone is forgetting the main ingredient for EVs to be an effective option for travel, and it’s blatently obvious it’s the infrastructure.
If, BIG IF, you think EVs are the way forward, come up with a scope and plan for implementation then.
Because if you can’t, you’ll understand why very few other organisations far larger than you can’t put one together either, or see no benefit in investing when the ROR aren’t realised for 40years plus...
The only way EVs will be effective is if the infrastructure is in place and big commercial transportation companies switch to EVs forcing the hand of both government and supplies of the technology.
As is we have a sporadic uptake of the technology based on nothing more than people thinking they are being “green” and have the home (base) with everything in place so the user isn’t inconvenienced.
all EV is is transferring the pollution. Unless the power is coming from renewable, combined cycle or nuclear it is still pretty poor.
Few countries going that way
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources
One has to lead the other, doing neither isn't an option
Given where we are now and how far we have come in a short time stuff is going to get better, cheaper and more reliable.
You may not drive 250miles in one go, plenty do. Plenty of commercial deliveries cover far more in one day than you might in a month. Plenty of services such as ambulances or police cover more than 250miles a day, plenty of Security Services travel more than 250miles a day, plenty of Health Support Services travel more than 250miles a day, plenty of commuters travel more than 250miles a day. I think you need to revisit your statement and think wider than the keyboard.
Private vehicles, like the ones people buy. Source from the RAC link in the post.
Plenty of people can’t be bothered with Range Anxiety and hanging around some BP station in the middle of nowhere for hours on end in the cold pissing rain either. And that’s what you expect people to do don’t you?
Nope it's not, for the vast majority of private car owners that sort of journey is an exception.
So some service stations on motorways have charging points, but the 2 or 3 that are installed are already busy, and could be busy for at least an hour or so, then add another hour or so for your charge and the user is still hanging around 3 hours later. That’s not speculation, that’s fact.
That is today, not in 6 months and not in the next few years, one will follow the other.
And the fact is Everyone is forgetting the main ingredient for EVs to be an effective option for travel, and it’s blatently obvious it’s the infrastructure.
As said for most domestic users even with a commute it's under 250 miles each way with at least 8hrs off in the middle. How many people get up drive 250 miles (about 4hrs minimum) and then turn around again and do the same every day?
The only way EVs will be effective is if the infrastructure is in place and big commercial transportation companies switch to EVs forcing the hand of both government and supplies of the technology.
Why would it be big commercials when the infrastructure is there already for most commuters and users
How far do you drive each day?
plenty of commuters travel more than 250miles a day
Lol, not by car they don't (unless your definition of plenty is 10+ ).
plenty of Health Support Services travel more than 250miles a day
I very much doubt this. When I worked in the community I drove 15 - 25 miles a day
average distance traveled by car in the UK is 7 miles. for everyone doing 250 plus, there's a lot more doing a lot less than 7. car hire is pretty cheap. frankly i go nowhere and have a stw issue golf gti which is a large chunk of cash doing not very much for the bulk of it's time. i only ever travel more than 100 miles at a time for work purposes, which is very rarely short notice, so could easily rent something. i must be mental. still, i am fortunate to be able to afford it, and it's a lovely thing.
Corr you lot don’t live in the real world do you.
Ahh well, you are so fascinated by the subject you should all buy EVs and prove to us that you are
a) worthy
b) apply what you’ve written to your actions
Doubt you’ll do either, becuse like most people they don’t trust the EV vehicles (yet) becuse of the statements ive made.
Crack on arguing though, and typing your own opinions without facts.
lets just start at the start .
have you seen the price of an EV.
thats enough to put off most of the GP who would rather have a 5 year old car with an audi badge on the front than drive a nissan(seeing as the leaf is the cheap EV of the moment) and the almost the rest of the GP who would rather drive a shit car than spend all that on a nissan and whats left are those with an EV
im sure as we see widerspread trickle down in the used market as mass addoption takes palce and their longevity is proven rather than should have would haves could haves then things will improve.
im certainly in the car is the issue rather than the propulsion method camp.
bikeboy
We have been posting facts. I'd l;ike to see where you get your "facts" from
Commuters doing over 250 miles a day? Healthcare workers doing over 250 miles a day - I know that one is utterly wrong.
In the UK, only 6% of car trips are over 25 miles, and only 2% of ALL trips (including planes, trains etc) are over 50 miles.
There simply isn't anywhere near the demand for long distance journeys that some are making out. It really is a mind set issue. Having a car that can do >200 miles is a few times a year (or less) concern for the majority of car owners.
Some statistics here showing that the average person in the UK makes on 3 trips per year over 100 miles in a car (2 more as a passenger):
finally something im above average at !
The average annual mileage for a car in the UK is 7900 miles.
While I don't doubt that there some people must exist doing 60k+ miles a year commuting (and paying £10k+ out of pocket in fuel and maintenance just to get to work?) or as part of their job (travelling salespeople, etc) it's way out in the fringes.
Most people commute fairly modest distances, don't have family and friends spread out over the country, or do a hobby that means they need to drive the length of the country for a weekend away. EVs will increasingly appeal to them because of the low running costs, how pleasant they are to drive, and the convenience of not needing to stop at a petrol station once or twice a month. Maybe if they have a once or twice a year longer trip they'll take the minor inconvenience of needing to rapid charge on the way.
Those who have more extreme needs for continuous high-speed running will go on using cars that burn petrol or diesel (maybe hydrogen if that ever goes anywhere).
As I said, our next car (and our only family car) in 18 months will be an EV. Our needs are met by the range of current cars (with the odd rapid charge a few times a year), and I just prefer how they drive.
Commuters doing over 250 miles a day?
I did know a couple of people who did this. Absolutely nuts. They seem to spend most of the day working or driving. Even worse than on a train since at least there (in theory if you aint standing) you can at least do something else.
Well, everyone has to have a special skill...
Lots of EVs over here in .se, but there are incentives from the government and the infrastructure is getting in place a lot more than in the UK, with charging points all over the place and not just in service stations.
For me, it would make sense if I was commuting within town or from just outside and we are actively looking for a hybrid or range extended EV for the next car. But... (and, like Nemo said, it's a big but) the price differential between a new-ish EV and the same age of petrol car (with space for dogs and luggage), even taking into account the drop in tax, is just too big to ignore.
I'm not even sure that our garage has an EV charging point in, so the convenience factor of letting it charge overnight would be spoiled by having to find a charge point (that does not have a million 'Drive Now' i3s around it) that is within walking distance of home. Even combining charging and evening dog walk is tricky if the nearest one is a long walk away.
I’m not even sure that our garage has an EV charging point in, so the convenience factor of letting it charge overnight would be spoiled by having to find a charge point
Or you could just fit one.
I’m not even sure that our garage has an EV
Yeah mine doesn’t so for now it plugs into a standard socket until I get around to fitting one. It was very difficult plugging it into the socket but I managed it in the end.
Plenty of services such as ambulances or police cover more than 250miles a day
Not really no, we’ve a few and it’s not unknown for me to in my manager’s car but given all our vehicles plug into a charge point anyway when back on base it wouldn’t be to difficult. We’ve even trialed them and have some pool cars that are EV. Anyway enough facts should I spout some made up stuff?
Ahh well, you are so fascinated by the subject you should all buy EVs and prove to us that you are
a) worthy
b) apply what you’ve written to your action
Doubt you’ll do either, becuse like most people they don’t trust the EV vehicles (yet) becuse of the statements ive made.
That’s exactly what I’ve done.
I bought an i3. It made it to Cumbria from Bristol in 5hours with a30min stop for coffee and recharge. On the way back we used its REX and did the whole journey without stopping. 270miles.
We’re going to Cornwall in August, i’ll be taking the i3. It’ll do the whole journey on its battery and ill recharge when i get there. 150miles.
Drove to london and back the other day - due to traffic and congestion, i did the
whole return journey on the battery - 180miles.
EVs are here, the infrastructure is increasing rapidly. As more people buy EVs, more money is to be made from installing places to charge them and so more companies will install chargers. Personally, i love using Ikea charge points - theyre ussually close to the motorway, and are free if yiu buy something from ikea.
Loads of EVs in Cambridge, I cycle past three Nissan Volts and one Tesla on my way to work, all within 500 yards of the house...
More and more EVs appearing in the work car parks as well...
My wife has colleagues who take EVs as company cars (as their only car) and all seem to manage even collecting kids from Universities 200+ miles away - they just recharge at a service station half way whilst having a cup of tea....
Mike, it's a communal garage that is not owned by me or even in my building, so that's not an option. Hell, it took us three months just to get a parking space in it!
That's the kind of problem a lot of people face in this part of the world. If you have to use the streets to park, getting a charge point fitted may not help because you can never be sure of where you will find a space.
In other news, I saw a story about non-production Tesla employees being drafted in to help with Model 3 production: https://nordic.businessinsider.com/tesla-flying-employees-to-help-model-3-production-report-2018-7?r=UK&IR=T
That’s the kind of problem a lot of people face in this part of the world.
Is that a particular bit? Whats the building management view on charging points?
At no point has anybody claimed it's a compete solution right now, however it is for a great number of people who like to make up excuses like their 500 mile commutes to say it will never work. For anybody with a drive or garage doing up to 100 miles each way there is no range anxiety or hassle there
Good to see they’re not even slightly ****ed about sorting the quality out then
Mike, it’s a communal garage that is not owned by me or even in my building, so that’s not an option. Hell, it took us three months just to get a parking space in it!
They’re missing a trick there they could fit one that uses a card system and make an income. My wife works for the nhs too, here trust have been increasing the number of chargers. Staff can use them for free any pubic who use them are charged £1, in the evenings quite taxis use them which helps provide an income. They’re so popular now even with the increased chargers my wife sometimes has park in normal space and the car on a lunchtime. Staff are charged if they leave one on charge for more than 5 hours which helps everyone get a chance.
Or you could just fit one.
not everyone lives in a bog standard UK 2.3 children 3 bedroom suburban semi with a driveway and garage.
In my old parking it would have been physically impossible.
In my new, current parking, the best I can do is persuade the owner to install charge points, and amend the contract accordingly so that costs are recovered.
Or plug a 50m+ extension lead in to my kitchen, dangle it out the window, down 2 storeys, across neighbour's flat roof, down 1 more storey, across 8 bays of car port roof, and dangle it down another 10 ft or so to the car.
Or hope that the 2 whole parking spaces in the 6 storey multistorey car park at work are free to use.
If EV becomes compulsory in town, it'll be easier for me to scrap car and sign up for a car sharing scheme.
Rental car for every long distance journey is a pita.
"If EV becomes compulsory in town, it’ll be easier for me to scrap car and sign up for a car sharing scheme."
tbh that will benifit the majority of folks if done right.
I must admit i was tempted when i first saw the twizy out in the france around the mountain resorts as a hire to get around rather than the traditional hire moped... - i thought they looked like the ideal solution to personal local journey transport for those that lack balance.
i bought an electric bike instead.
This video is from 2009:
That’s a Tesla roadster, based on a Lotus Elise with a battery and motor adapted to fit into an ICE chassis dating back to the mid-nineties. It looks a little amateurish by today's standards; range isn’t great and it’s a bit Heath Robinson in execution.
Compare with this:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/tesla/model-3/first-drives/tesla-model-3-2018-review
Thats nine years of progress, a purpose designed EV platform with three more seats, a boot, a longer range, better build quality and a third of the price of the roadster.
If I had the means to spend £33k on a car, this is what I’d buy, or more accurately for a tenner a fill up, this is what I’d lease for three years.
Rental car for every long distance journey is a pita.
And not to labour a point, how often do you go over 250/300 miles with no chance to stop?
For ref from Manchester London is 205 miles, Dover 296, Fort William taking it a little out at 320
More importantly how often do most people do a sporadic journey like that? Most don't at all, if you did it in the cities the delivered hire cars will kick off more (some do already), if there is a market then stuff changes.
As I've said before if you start with the mindset that an EV/Transport solution must replace exactly what you have now people will miss some really good solutions to problems.
I'm in the commute over 250 miles camp, 130 miles each way, so would have time to charge it while at work, not a problem as long as charge points are available. I also do regular long trips over 250 miles, but I'm never in a rush, always try and plan my trips / leaving times etc to avoid traffic where possible. I don't mind stopping off for a 45 minute break, so could top up when necessary. 3 hours would be too long, but 45 mins charge top up would be fine. Obviously commercial drivers don't have the same luxury, so can see why this may not be an option.
I never see EV as the end of ICE, just a more efficient greener option. Maybe in the very long term it will be a replacement, but none of us really know.
I would get one but it really is the cost difference holding me back. I'm not into labels/badges and would drive a Nissan Leaf, but its close to £30k for what is quite a fugly looking thing. Its also a bit on the small side as well. The Leaf appears to have a real world range of approx. 150 miles, possibly a touch close for me with my commute. The 2019 60KW Leaf appears to cover my commute, but coming out in 2019, still to small for a family car in my view.
Just looked at second hand Tesla's, £50k for a 3 year old one. A very quick Google (first page I looked at), shows a lease cost of just over £1k for a 2016 Model S 100KW Dual Motor, after a £10k deposit. I honestly think the initial outlay is what is putting people off.
I'm amused by the "physically impossible" stuff. This country electrified millions of homes from scratch between WW1 and WW2. But getting power a short distance from an electrified building to a parking space? Whoa, that'll be a major challenge!
all EV is is transferring the pollution. Unless the power is coming from renewable, combined cycle or nuclear it is still pretty poor.
excellent, my commute would be a much nicer ride without a source of pollution every 3 metres around me. Also living in Scotland the energy is already largely renewable and in the future when all cars are electric will probably be entirely low carbon
If EV becomes compulsory in town, it’ll be easier for me to scrap car and sign up for a car sharing scheme.
Or your landlord fits charging points.
Just looked at second hand Tesla’s, £50k for a 3 year old one. A very quick Google (first page I looked at), shows a lease cost of just over £1k for a 2016 Model S 100KW Dual Motor, after a £10k deposit. I honestly think the initial outlay is what is putting people off.
That's like looking at a BMX M5 and saying cars are too expensive. The Model S 1000D is their top of the range, most expensive model. Most EV cars around Cambridge are Nissan things with 30KW batteries....
yes but if we take quotes out of context then we can make anyone look silly....
if you included the full quote youll see he already talked about the nissan which frankly is still silly money for what amounts to a small car.
I'm very disappointed, but not surprised, that there is no government approved design of kerb-side charging. 1000s will need to be installed. If I was an investor, I'd be looking at it v closely.
Commuters doing over 250 miles a day? Healthcare workers doing over 250 miles a day – I know that one is utterly wrong.
I work in Healthcare. I did 210 miles on Monday, same again Tuesday, and today I've done 83, I've at least a 230 mile journey tomorrow, and probably nothing on Friday.
all EV is is transferring the pollution. Unless the power is coming from renewable, combined cycle or nuclear it is still pretty poor. Until all new builds (houses, offices, car parks) are mandated to have solar cells, batteries and charging points we are not approaching serious levels of government interest
Whilst it is true that it would be better if renewables were used for generating power to state that going electric just moves pollution misses the very significant point that fossil fuel power stations are much more efficient that the internal combustion engine so overall the fuel usage would be lower. Additionally concentrating pollution in one specific place makes it easier to do something about.