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electric motors and their batteries aren’t exactly fit and forget.
I'm interested to hear what needs servicing in an electric drivetrain. I mean regular servicing, like changing oil in an IC. Of course the batteries will eventually deteriorate but the car will let you know when this is happening, you don't need to take it to be serviced for that.
Ok so my Prius is now old but there are no EV specific service points.
Brush replacement?😉
Just because it has a different method of propulsion that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need servicing. Ancillary and bodywork checks need done and electric motors and their batteries aren’t exactly fit and forget. But people will come to realise this, eventually.
The Model 3 needs minimal servicing, the only vaguely regular service required is the air con but that's not annual, other than that it's just brake fluid (unless you're counting tyres, which I wouldn't personally). The warranty for the battery & motors is 8 years (or 100k+ miles). So unless there's a fault (not unheard of in Tesla's but they're improving quickly and the Model 3 is the most reliable of their models) then you really don't need to do anything but replace the tyres when they wear and sort the air con if it starts smelling or not cooling properly - far less maintenance than an ICE.
Brush replacement?😉
And top up the cells with water?
Very little to service on an EV, motors are brush-less, don't need oil changes, don't have cam belts, don't have fan belts, don't have fuel filters. Some have radiators / liquid cooled batteries, but probably completely sealed system.
With regen breaking pads / discs last a lot longer as well.
Pollen filter still needs changing though....
Brush replacement
I bet he never cleans it anyway.
Does anyone else on here have a model 3.
I have had the performance version since early August.
The car is incredible - I don't have much to compare it to though as I haven't owned other nice cars. (Used to have a 525D BMW touring which was good but nothing compared to this). Very easy to drive, great in traffic but also a lot of fun on the open road. Love the minimalist interior, screen gives me all I need and is easy to use. Stereo is great, nippy and nimble. I could go on ...
I've only used a super charger once and that was painless. Other than that I just charge at home. Waiting for a charger to be installed at home but currently charge at 10 miles per hour off a 3 pin which is currently fine for my requirements.
Regular service items for all cars tend to be brake fluid, brake pads, power steering fluid, tyres, plus check wheel bearings and steering and suspension joints etc. You're still going to have to take an EV back for servicing once or twice a year.
Tesla maintenance is every 2 years : https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/car-maintenance
Tesla recommends checking your tires every 10,000-12,000 miles for rotating, balancing and aligning needs.
Tesla recommends cleaning and lubricating all brake calipers every 12 months or 12,500 mi for cars in cold weather regions.
Asking this as an EV fan (but unfortunately someone at the bangernomics end of the scale) - what happens if you run out of power due to not being able to charge for whatever reason will a breakdown service tow/take you to the nearest charger? Do the AA/RAC/Green flag have any dedicated EV services?
This is not an EV, but it does illustrate the potential problems that reliance on technology can cause.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/zipcar-into-the-wilderness/597217/
In an area without cellphone reception, I was unable to open the car.
@hols2 so tires (which again I don't class as a service item) and a bit of caliper lubrication that's not required in the UK (so not relevant to most on here). Granted annual ICE servicing is mostly just oil & filter change, major services have stuff like gearbox fluid and plugs though which aren't required on a Tesla Model 3. It also doesn't invalidate the battery & drive motor warranty if you don't follow the service recommendations.
As far as the user experience goes, you have to assume you will be without your car for a day while it's being serviced. It doesn't matter to the customer what they do during servicing, just that you can't use it.
The cost of servicing needs to be looked at as part of the long-term cost of ownership. If you save 10k on servicing costs over the lifetime of the vehicle, but the vehicle costs 20k more, then you are 10k short overall. Same goes for fuel costs. If you average about 500 miles per year like I do (seriously), the sums work out differently to someone who does 50 000 miles per year.
what happens if you run out of power due to not being able to charge for whatever reason will a breakdown service tow/take you to the nearest charger?
AFAIK Tesla service allow you to do this once and will tow you to a charger. However if the 12Volt battery goes as well then it's a bit more serious. I'm not sure how often people do run out of juice but can't imagine it's that frequent.
As far as the user experience goes, you have to assume you will be without your car for a day while it’s being serviced
I'm not sure they still exist but I believe Tesla, or at least used to, have a 'ranger' service where they come out to you to do small service items.
If you average about 500 miles per year like I do (seriously),
Then you don't need a car.
Then you don’t need a car.
Most people don't need a car, but find that owning one is convenient.
Agreed a lot of people don't but at 500 miles per year then there is certainly no need.
I needed it for my previous job. Now that I have it, might as well keep it in case I need it in the future. However, a lot of people buy cars for the convenience even though they don't really need them. They're allowed to do that, there's no requirement to obtain a certificate demonstrating the need for a car before you're allowed to buy one.
Jesus dude chill.
As we are at the start of the EV revolution i don't think you can compare the current ICE infrastructure to the current EV infrastructure. I'm interested in one as the wife has a regular 80 mile commute. Therefore 99% of journeys will be within one day and charging at night. Yes some may have some extreme needs so maybe an EV isn't suited for you, yet. Trucks / pickups are on the horizon Click here.
For longer journeys, cant you just plan where you will stop and look for what charging stations are there beforehand and load the appropriate apps. Have a backup in case of faults / squatters. Things will / are improving every month.
Someone mentioned insurance was difficult to get. I contacted Admiral for a quote and while Tesla model 3 wasn't on their database yet, the agent contacted the underwriters and got back to me with 4 hours with a quote.
Regarding servicing, i spoke to the Tesla agent and they recommend coming in every 2 years.
Personally i think we are just at the Model T era of EV production and it wont take 100 years to get to the current ICE evolution stage.
No it wont take 100 years. EV's consist of technologies that are already mature. Electric motors...mature technology. Batteries...mature technology. Its the integration into a new and different product so the learning curve is massively shortened. Most of the complaints people are making on here are not around the cars but the charging infrastructure. that will be quick and easy to fix as soon as things get moving then its no problem.
The biggest shock will come when people in their masses start moving over to EV...the government is not going to stand for the loss of hundreds of billions of tax revenues from fuel, oil, servicing items and all the other tax earnings the government receives from car ownership and will be looking to recoup it somehow...loading electric bills with more tax or something like that. Ultimately EV's will be just as expensive to own and run as ICE cars are today, but until then the early adoptors can enjoy the benefits.
Batteries…mature technology.
No way. It's the mobile phone that has driven improvements in battery tech and there's a long way to go yet. In weight in capacity and in chemistry. manufacturers are using a fraction of the heavy metals an getting more capacity even compared to a couple of years ago. The Leaf and Zoé have both gone from 23kWh to over 50 in seven years.
In ICE terms batteries have just gone from flat head to OHV with pushrods.
Asking this as an EV fan (but unfortunately someone at the bangernomics end of the scale) – what happens if you run out of power due to not being able to charge for whatever reason will a breakdown service tow/take you to the nearest charger? Do the AA/RAC/Green flag have any dedicated EV services?
Well according to 'the internet' with the Model S at least, it's a bit worse than that, if it goes flat, as in completely flat then it's effectively bricked and plugging it back in won't fix it, it has to go back to Tesla to be fixed.
I really doubt it's much of an issue here, but in sunnier climates when you're not using it, it will use a small amount of charge to maintain the temps of some of the electronics that make it work. I don't know how accurate that is, it might be the case that if it can't maintain temp then some bits will be damaged which could cause it to brick and a myth has sprung from that.
I guess if it's true, don't park it up on a low charge in the middle of summer and go off on hols for 2 weeks.
If range is the big issue, the new Kia estate EV is getting 280 miles in actual reviews and it will be quite a bit cheaper than the Model s.
I’ve just changed vehicles and was very keen indeed to go full EV but he lack of options for charging at home put me off. I don’t have a driveway or any off road parking and live on a busy main road.
I tried contacting Sheffield council to see if they would consider installing a community charge point (I don’t mind walking a bit from where I’d park it) especially as grants for local authorities for installing infrastructure is underused. No reply. Tried again. No reply. Sheffield only has to my knowledge 4 true public charging points in the town centre. There are others in shops, paid for car parks, hotels and the like but those wouldn’t work on a typical day for me.
So tried contacting a few home EV charge point installation companies and explained my situation. One just blankly told me they wouldn’t install one. Another said they same and were only slightly more helpful but still said no. Last one no reply. So only remaining option as far as I could work out was to install an outdoor mains plug on the front of my house and trail the charging cable across the pavement and run the risk of getting claims for pedestrians tripping on it.
After must frustration, I ended up getting a new ICE.
Interesting to see that a sizeable majority doesn't consider wear and tear inspections to be part of a service. I presume you are the ones who are shocked come MOT time when it turns out you've been driving about with leaky shocks, broken springs, torn CV boots and whatever else because you "service" it at home. Then consider that the average person has as much mechanical sympathy as a turnip. All those things should be getting inspected when it's up on ramps, that's why it still needs regular servicing.
As for motors, believe the hype if you like but controllers, windings, bearings and such should all be inspected as part of any sensible preventative maintenance schedule. 2 yearly may well be a sensible interval for the motors but I guarantee your 8 year warranty will cover wear and tear parts only if subjected to regular inspection. How many of us have had a hard drive motor or controller fail on us? How is that in any way different (in principle of operation) to these brushless motors?
Interesting to see that a sizeable majority doesn’t consider wear and tear inspections to be part of a service.
Not really a majority just a few who can't see it's still a service
The EV revolution is happening, not with cars though, but with bicycles.
I see a lot more of the now, not the 4k MTB's, but people just using them to get around or go shopping.
I guarantee your 8 year warranty will cover wear and tear parts only if subjected to regular inspection.
You'd be wrong. Also Tesla service centres do not service the drive motors or batteries, if there's a fault they are replaced.
@tuboflard I reckon you will have to wait for autonomous vehicles that can take themselves off to be charged up overnight somewhere local and then come back fully charged in the morning.
Also Tesla service centres do not service the drive motors or batteries, if there’s a fault they are replaced.
So this so-called environmental revolution in vehicles has all the green connotations of the battery manufacture AND disposal parts being thrown into a landfill site?
They recycle them.
And how do they find faults? Presumably they don't wait until actual failure happens or would I be wrong about that too. Maybe I need to lower my expectations from best practice to cheapest practice.
Kryten, presumably motors will be swapped with the old one sent for refurb like you would an alternator.
Do you have evidence of that? Where? I mean, if they are shipped into a container back to China, fixed, sent to the factory etc thats also and eco negative. Why aren't they fixed locally avoiding all that and also boosting the local mechanical workforce, an ICE based industry that'll need to move with the times?
If you want to promote Tesla as properly eco you need to do your research on everything, not just fuel and performance.
Well yes there is evidence as it's widely known.
It would be great in future if they were local repairs and recycling I'm sure there will in time once EV become the norm.
https://electrek.co/2019/04/16/tesla-battery-recycling-system/
I don't know about Tesla but Renault change duff cells and continue to use the battery in cars as long as it's over 75% capacity. At less than 75% it goes into their power storage plant that provides power to the grid at peak demand and charges at low demand. When they're completely dead they get recycled at a new pilot plant which is very labour intensive at present but will be scaled up when enough dead batteries are available.
As above, we have a few demonstration projects in the company where we have used 2nd life EV batteries in containers to provided embedded generation and grid balancing services in commercial buildings.
If you want to promote Tesla as properly eco you need to do your research on everything, not just fuel and performance.
Conversely if you want to piss on someone's chips you need to provide more than hypothetical straw man piss.
I'm not sure anyone's describing Tesla as "properly eco" anyhow. Battery manufacturing has a significant environmental impact, Tesla are sort of trying to address this but things like reducing the cobalt content are more linked to reducing battery cost than the environmental impact. Reusing the car batteries (once they don't hold sufficient charge to be viable in a car) in powerwalls etc. is a good move though.
Do you have evidence of that?
Well, no but given its cheaper than replacing for new every time I'd say it's a good certainty. As Drac says it's what normally happens.
Used battery packs and motors are also finding their way to the modification crowd like EV West for example.
Conversely if you want to piss on someone’s chips you need to provide more than hypothetical straw man piss.
Agreed, I just don’t have time right now #slighltyskewededinburhgdefence
Just consider that in its lifetime the BMW will get through 8-10 tonnes of fuel which will just be burned and converted into CO2 and organic pollutants which include known carcinogens.
On the other hand the lithium battery will be recycled with 80% lithium recovery, heavy meatal recovery and the the lithium residue is harmless enough to be incorporated into building blocks.
If you wish to compare the oil industry and lithium extaction consider this:
A new study on total CO2 emissions, for electric vs petrol/diesel. https://www.drax.com/energy-policy/how-clean-is-my-electric-car/
Electric is less than half the CO2 over the lifetime, including battery production. Small cars are much less emissions, as smaller batteries etc. The likes of Tesla are more (but still less than the equivalent petrol car).
And as the grid gets more renewables etc, emissions will decrease further.