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Of course, it's only 15 mins for a top up charge if a charger is free.
Not that I'm saying don't get an electric car. DO get one. Just change your habits. It's not that big of a deal. Except for the towing thing.
Zap-map shows a huge coverage which is why so many recommend it.
I'm sure you know what I'm on about, Drac. The German government does anyhow. The most common way of buying things is the crdit card. You don't need a working phone with wi-fi or a phone network to buy bread but you often do to buy electricty at a charge point. Example time:
Spain between Burgos and Léon, either we get a charge or it's 40kmh to the next next charge point. No problem I've got the right app, switch on phone - no network. No problem they'll be wi-fi somewhere - off to a bar (where you can buy a drink with cash or a credit card) but it's very old phone infrastructure in this place and wi-fi is so poor the app keeps crashing. They are very helpful telling me where the best phone signal in town is. Madame goes off for a walk while I wait with the car. When she gets a signal she activates the charge point and I plug in. She has to go for another walk to turn it off and liberate the car.
Charge points should have payment with a simple swipe of a credit card, less than that is shit.
So if the charge point won't accept a credit card you are reliant on:
Having a working phone with the right app
Some of the apps you have to have aminimum credit, say 20e, for a charge point you're only going to use once for 3e of electricity that's irritiating.
Have a phone signal.
Or wi-fi within running distance of the charge point in the time you have to plug in after activiating - or a passenger to do it for you
The Internet site needs to be up and running - imagine being reliant on STW at 05:00 Monday morning.
We were recently confronted with a charge point that didn't accpet our Mobive charge card despite being on the Mobive app. I rang the number on the charge point so they could remotely start it and charge us. They tried and failed but eventually found a charge point they could activate remotely so off we went, very slowly, the card worked at that one.
The new RS6 isn’t diesel. The S6/s7 are.
Thats correct, my mistake.
That needs to change before more people get on board.
I don’t as I’m in the UK the only time there was an ‘issue’ was at Sterling services which used a network and never seen. I downloaded the app and added some funds are, £5, I've never needed it since so deleted it. Isn't Germany known for not adapting contactless payments in general?
There's also the German problem:
Every single ****ing charge point in Berlin was squatted by a **** with a fully-charged hybrid merc or Beamer because you don't pay for parking if the car's plugged in and no-one does anything about fully charged cars squatting charge points.
Edit: and whilst there was a government initiative to force the 80 or so different charge point operators in Germany to make their charge points credit card compatible I have yet to see one.
Yeah that happens here too but it's pretty much any hybrid or electric that said free parking seems to be coming to end for EVs
Hmm done the 1000miler from Brizzle to Lorca(teeny bit further down than Alicante) I think the Autodrive features of the Tesla would be rather nice 🙂
Better still chargers that make charging as easy as buying bread
Mrs FD charged our hybrid at a hospital last week. Came to leave to go and operate at another hospital across the city, and the charge station wouldn’t release our cable. 3hrs later when the operator of the box actually acknowledged it was their problem, apparently the only way to release the cable was to turn the power off to the hospital (I kid you not) Mrs FD had already left by this point to try and not be too late at the next hospital. Lucky it was a hybrid and not full electrical. They had to post our cable back to us 🙄
Anyhow turn it around. Imagine the public reaction if all the oil companies and supermarkets equipped petrol pumps with the same technology as EV charge points with no-one around to help them. A wallet full of cards, a téléphone full of apps and still no guarantee you'll get any petrol.
I've only done one trip in the UK and used five different public chargers. One charger repeatedly switched off after a couple minutes of charge, the car was clearly overloading it. One was 3kW rather than the 7kW announced on the app. So a 20% failure rate and one very slow charge for me. The UK campsite was fine and even promoted the fact their sockets were EV compatible.
acknowledged it was their problem, apparently the only way to release the cable was to turn the power off to the hospital
So these things are not like the sockets in house - you just push in or pull out?
I assumed they were but with added remote or secure 'on' switch...?
Well I admit that I’ve learnt something, certainly the charging times are coming down to something that I’d find perfectly acceptable and the performance and tax benefits are great. Some of those apps sound very clever and I’m sure it’ll soon just ‘work’ but....
(I don’t know why I feel I need to justify this) I really do drive off road and tow several tons on average 2-3 times a week. On top of that I’ve currently got over 60 live construction sites around the country, not all require 4wd but some do. I also do want something that’ll be able to drive through the night with full skiing / biking kit for 5 to get me to my obviously optional holidays without stopping more than a few minutes. So what I’m saying is that EV’s are great, I’m sure in a few years there simply won’t be any other option and they will do all that I want but right now, although it’s getting there, it’s not yet. Of course, I could change my life to suit the car that gets stw approval but right now, I think I’ll stick for one vehicle, there’s a good chance I’ll get one for the other.
Instavolt chargers are contactless just tap you credit card and done. For me charging at home is pretty much all I do. Feels strange using the petrol car and having to put £60 in the tank. Just waking up to find a fully charged car that cost me £3 to fill up is much easier.
Loads of Tesla charging stations in France, and even two at our hotel in Morzine.
Sorted.
Some at Chunnel too.
Yawn...
Same old arguments, same ole POV.
Educate yourselves, watch Fullycharged Show on YouTube for all the latest upto date info on charging points/issues and watch the episode with Mercs latest EV in which they explain all the points I made above.
Or don’t... and continue in the bubble of “well, it’s fine for me.. I don’t know what you are talking about”
#blinkersoff
I don't think you've read the thread, Bikebouy, or you've only read Drac's posts.
Oooh! The Mrs had an issue at her work the other week, also a hospital, where it didn't release. She tried to stop button, the company tried an automatic reset still didn't work. She rang them back and got someone else who sorted it in seconds.
Forgot about that.
Yowsers - model x’s (the only ev vehicle I can find that will tow in the uk) start at £60k second hand! Whatever the benefits, however it may be able to do most of what I want, I can’t bloody afford that!
That didn't seem a fair comparison as the BMW came with options taking it from £38,325 to £45,505, compared to £36,490 for the Tesla, that's 10k more!
Can't help but wonder what the 7k of optional extras are??
Educate yourselves, watch Fullycharged Show on YouTube for all the latest upto date info on charging points/issues and watch the episode with Mercs latest EV in which they explain all the points I made above.
That was posted the last EV thread. It bares little resemblance to the reality.
Edukator has it though using contactless payment options like shops do would make it easier but it doesn't require billions or even 7 apps.
The cheapest Model 3 on Autotrader is £45k, where are the £36k cars?
So these things are not like the sockets in house – you just push in or pull out?
I assumed they were but with added remote or secure ‘on’ switch…?
Charge cables are not cheap ~£200 and they don’t come with the car. The cable is locked in to the station when you start charging and locked in to the car when you lock the car. I’ve often wondered how easy it would be to rip it out from the car. Probably not that easy but certainly very costly to repair
Go on the Tesla website...the entry 2wd model is around £36k. At 45k you're within a few k of the Model 3 Performance model territory which would P all over the BMW.
You only really need to get within 10k or so of the BMW price as by the time you take into account the far cheaper running costs of the Tesla (no servicing, tax or diesel costs) that is easily worth a good £10k or so on the purchase price.
The cheapest Model 3 on Autotrader is £45k, where are the £36k cars?
Here?
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/model3/design#battery
Charge cables are not cheap ~£200 and they don’t come with the car.
Depends on the manufacturer some do come with the car.
Better still chargers that make charging as easy as buying bread. I can buy almost anything with my credit card except electricity at a charge point.
https://www.zap-map.com/all-new-rapid-chargers-should-offer-card-payment-by-2020/
That was posted the last EV thread. It bares little resemblance to the reality.
maybe your reality
At 45k you’re within a few k of the Model 3 Performance model territory which would P all over the BMW.
In a straight line yes, but absolutely no other way. I’m sure it was on Top Gear or something recently and the handling was appalling
All the reviews I've seen rate the model 3 handling. Different to an ICE but IIRC it was quicker around the top gear track than a BMW M3.
Someone from the Tesla model 3 facebook group claimed to have bumped into the top gear boys at a hotel while they were filming in the area. They thought the car was amazing but had some concerns with the build quality and owing to the new found popularity also the availability of Super charging points.
The biggest ‘problem’ with weight is it’s effect on acceleration and we already know a model 3 performance would beat a whole host of very very fast cars on pure acceleration. Other than that weight can be beneficial.... that is why F1’s cars have huge wings to generate downforce to effectively weigh the cars down. Weight aids grip which is by far the most important thing when it comes to overall performance. Also how the weight is distributed is important. The weight is low down in the chassis which lowers the centre of gravity which is hugely beneficial for handling and suspension performance as it lowers the roll centre and reduces body roll and the inertial shift as the car goes around bends.... again why F1 cars and all sports cars are lowered as much as possible. The model 3 performance would P all over any 3 series Bmw. It just would.
Weight doesn't add grip, quite the opposite:
School physics tells you that F =< uN so max cornering force is less than or equal to the coefficient of friction multiplied by the weight in the case of a car. Aero aids to add weight without adding mass help, just adding mass to the vehicle doesn't.
Do some more research and you'll find that tyre characteristics mean that the coefficient of friction of car tyres does all sorts of wierd and wonderful things in response to load and road conditions and more vehicle weight is rarely if ever a positive.
None of this matters when driving appropriately on public roads of course, you'll be a long way from the limit of adhesion unless it's snowing.
maybe your reality
Charge Your Car has the biggest network use them at £20 per annum and it means you have no real issues.
Good to see that future chargers are using contactless payments though far more sensible.
They thought the car was amazing but had some concerns with the build quality
Pretty sure that’s what they mentioned on the show too but I can’t recall it in detail. Tesla aren’t known for their build quality though.
I'm just waiting on the company I work for to confirm if they're going to offer a car lease salary sacrifice scheme before I get a Model 3. I'm just pissed off they changed the model options and now you have to have the full-fat Performance option to get the crazy 0-60 (you have to have it with 20" wheels and other crap I don't want). The Long Range option would be fine but on lease it's barely any cheaper so not worth dropping down to. I also don't want white but don't want to pay extra for a decent colour when the paint is known to be sub-standard anyway
It accelerates a bit faster then the BMW, but its weight and performance aren’t so different from typical sporty saloons.
Are you having a laugh? It's far faster accelerating than BMWs in it's price range, sure 80-140 it's probably similar or maybe even slower but I'm not going to be doing that. Is 3.2s or 4.4s 0-60 relevant/worth paying for? meh probably not but you drop down the interior spec. and to 2wd going for the Standard model which I think I'd regret.
It handles well as the centre of gravity is low, sure a BMW M3 will probably embarrass it on a lot of tracks but I doubt I'd ever track it anyway so not really a concern. For driving on normal roads the cornering ability is perfectly fine.
I'm not a total Tesla fanboi, there's a lot wrong with the model 3 (quality control seems to be a shocker for one) and you are basically spending £45k+ on a car worth more like £25-30k without the battery so anyone expecting the same interior quality as a £45k German ICE is going to be disappointed. Having sat in one though it's more than good enough for me and certainly didn't seem cheap & nasty.
I also think Elon is way over-selling (to the point he should end up in court) the autonomous driving, there's already people in the US thinking owning a model 3 will make them money in a couple of years when Tesla comes out with it's robotaxi service. I'm not even specing the auto-pilot option as I know it won't be anything other than a gimmick for way longer than the 3 year lease I'll have.
The autonomous driving would be a big draw for me actually. Obviously I'd prefer it to drive itself completely, but it'd be nice to be able to have it take over for a minute on a quiet stretch of motorway whilst you eat a sandwich, stretch, rub your eyes, fetch a kid's toy etc etc.
Although I didn't realise it was an extra cost option. I might not spec it if it costs more than a few hundred.
F1’s cars have huge wings to generate downforce to effectively weigh the cars down. Weight aids grip which is by far the most important thing when it comes to overall performance
No, weight does not add grip. Downforce adds grip, but downforce and weight are very different things, weight adds inertia, which hurts performance, downforce does not add inertia. The most important thing when it comes to performance is power-to-weight ratio.
An advantage of EVs is that the batteries can be put under the cabin to give a very low center-of-mass plus a good front-rear weight distribution, this is very beneficial for suspension performance. An ICE is a huge lump that sits up fairly high and in front of the cabin. However, if the review above is any guide, the BMW still handles better than the Tesla. My guess on that is that Tesla had a lot of trouble meeting cost targets so had to cheap out on suspension (and cabin quality), whereas BMW make suspension performance a top priority. Also, Tesla would have had to compromise tyre performance for low rolling resistance in order to meet range targets, whereas BMW could choose higher performance tyres.
Drac
Charge Your Car has the biggest network use them at £20 per annum and it means you have no real issues.
It was pointed out to you in that previous thread that you have a plug-in hybrid so it won't be an issue for you to recharge or not because you can fall back on your engine. People who own a full EV will want absolutely every charging option available to them. Just to do my routine, which is fairly repetitive, I would want Ecotricity -app. Geniepoint - RFID card, polar plus - ? as a minimum. Your single network doesn't have any coverage or hardly any coverage in Lakes, Dales and North of Bradford area. And even if it did an EV user (not plug-in hybrid) would still want every charger option available to them because they don't have your ICE option to fall back on.
Although I didn’t realise it was an extra cost option. I might not spec it if it costs more than a few hundred.
It's £5800 :p it's a bit annoying you don't get the self-parking either without it as that would come in handy occasionally but certainly not worth spending that much for. Watching YouTube clips of UK drivers with autopilot on makes me nervous let alone actually using it myself. I think it would end up more stressful (having to constantly be alert to it drifting wide/about to clip a verge etc.) than just steering yourself.
Roll on in 10-20 years time though when you can get drunk in the pub, summon your car and have it take you home whilst you snooze in the back.
As pointed out I still use chargers and agree it doesn’t cover everywhere but it really isn’t a big issue requiring billions of apps and cards but rather just a few. However, that seems to something that is also coming to an end.
Looking at the Lakes it’s pretty disappointing coverage overall by any network given it’s an area you’d hope would want to keep air pollution to a minimum.
The big big difference is you'll never experience charging anxiety until you own a full EV.
TBH you’re looking at a dynamic shift like moving from combustion powered cars to EVs there’s not much point trying to argue it’s all the same really, it’s not
What's a "dynamic shift"? How will I know when I'm looking at one?
Granted which I may find out next year as I’ll be very likely going full EV but I do find it frustrating when you go to areas with large populations or big tourists areas and they have very few or no charge points. It’s not perfect but there is a very big push to correct this but of course it takes time and investment. Seems our council may be pretty good and keep to one supplier and install them in sensible areas.
What’s a “dynamic shift”?
It's a £3280 factory fit option but comes as standard with the Buzzword Awesomeness pack
no servicing
Lolwut? Just because it has a different method of propulsion that doesn't mean it doesn't need servicing. Ancillary and bodywork checks need done and electric motors and their batteries aren't exactly fit and forget. But people will come to realise this, eventually.
What’s a “dynamic shift”? How will I know when I’m looking at one?
It's probably just something I made up or heard at a conference, but in this instance. Moving from a Petrol car to a Diesel is a shift, you need to remember to use the black pump, drive it slightly differently, but fundamentally it's the same as you had before. A Dynamic Shift changes are greater and more pronounced.
In this case, you'd know when you're looking at a ever depleting battery meter and very few places to fix that.
You could of course go for a fundamental shift, and get the bus.
I think "paradigm shift" maybe the overused marketing phrase you are looking for 🙂