[Closed] Tesco Hilarity! You couldn't make it up!

duckman,
Read your holy book please.
Start with (maybe twice)
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:17-18

and then google all the apologists who explain how:
"its a mistake" [in the bible!]
"they deserved it because god is 'holy'" [... presumably means genocidal, but in a [i]moral[/i] way?]

[b]I[/b] am verifiably more moral than your purported god, based on what he wrote himself (and you probably are too), so please get over apologising for this divisive murderous creed (you can recover and it does get better :o)

What I'm suggesting is that much of what flute bands refer to and celebrate is basically sectarianism, bigotry and violence towards Catholics/Irish, and is therefore offensive to many (not just Catholics/Irish either) and has no place a public event such as the opening of a tesco store in Bellshill, Scotland

feenster agree there are some bands that are very offensive I was just pointing out that there are proper muscial bands that do march and celebrate certain historical events. They play well know songs, hymns and the national anthem of the UK!

The Tesco thing certainly was a mistake!

the national anthem of the UK

The most offensive tune of all for many 😉

there are proper musical bands that do march and celebrate certain historical events

all these events relate to 'we' beat 'them'

WTF is a dumb ass march for? what does it achieve? does anyone march to celebrate anything positive and enlightening? bollox do they. they're sad twisted morons.

The most offensive tune of all for many

Oh well - not much you can do about a country and its nationality/national flag/national anthem!

WTF is a dumb ass march for? what does it achieve? does anyone march to celebrate anything positive and enlightening? bollox do they. they're sad twisted morons

Not particularly keen on the marching myself but hey if thats what they want to do - knock themselves out. I suppose in their 'world' it is important to remember and celebrate the 1690 victory. The Bloody Sunday/Easter Rising etc marches are important to certain sections of the communities also.

Duckman
I understand the point you are making but it is not me who is claiming they were done in the name of religion but those who perpetrated the acts.
Therefor ereligion is a factor in crusades, pogroms, Spanish inquistions and in NI [ though this is more tribal I agree]

duckman,
Read your holy book please.
Start with (maybe twice)
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:17-18

and then google all the apologists who explain how:
"its a mistake" [in the bible!]
"they deserved it because god is 'holy'" [... presumably means genocidal, but in a moral way?]

I am verifiably more moral than your purported god, based on what he wrote himself (and you probably are too), so please get over apologising for this divisive murderous creed (you can recover and it does get better :o)

Confusing mild religious difference with the real reason for the conflict in N.I. seems to be alive and well it seems. I always thought that's what some British people did to make themselves feel better (or superior, or both).

Duckman far too busy earning a living to contribute as I would like to but as others above have commented, the UVF is a self proclaimed Christian organisation.

People with your views have cherry picked the bible for centuries.
Oh and by the way the "Golden rule" predates christianity.

Religion "claiming all the good bits" shocker!

I suppose in their 'world' it is important to remember and celebrate the 1690 victory.

Before I explode, are you saying that the Orange Order marches that have traditionally centred around July 12th are just to celebrate a victory in a battle over 300 years ago? I just want to check....

trying to tie this into all the music threads with a quite from Rush (best everything):

Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colorful rag is unfurled

orange order claim to be christian (huge joke) and don't seem to mind marching with the pipe bands. all tossers. every last one - including some of my relatives. incapable of reasoned defence of their beliefs, other than 'our version of what god said, says so'.

Feenster wrote: "Not many people realise or understand why fans of a Football club in Glasgow so visibly and fanatically affiliate themselves with Ireland."

It's because they're cs. Likewise for the ones in the union jacks. It's not so much a religion issue as a c thing IMO.

It was probably a deliberate publicity stunt for the opening by overzealous new manager but will be be blamed on someone else ,as you would.
In Bellshill ,where said store opened ,it will be more of a laugh than a sectarian blunder but if it was a few miles away at say Coatbridge then it would be a totally different story.
How I love the west Of Scotland.....not.

n Bellshill ,where said store opened ,it will be more of a laugh than a sectarian blunder but if it was a few miles away at say Coatbridge then it would be a totally different story.

Whereas in Larkhall I believe it's compulsary 😉

@Northwind

It's because they're c***s

deep man, deep

are you saying that the Orange Order marches that have traditionally centred around July 12th are just to celebrate a victory in a battle over 300 years ago?

Yes. I await the explosion 🙂

Pudding,you state that all Christianity is a murderous divisive creed? and I am apologetic about it? So by dint of that why am I not in a paramilitary organisation?I made my point of what I felt Christianity means for me, and I have never felt the need to apologise for it.If there are people like,well all the Christians I know, where does that leave your above points? I noticed that you went for Numbers, why not the gospel of John? That is far more relative for modern Christianity.
Surfer,some people have a belief system that doesn't conform to your opinion of how it should,why do you have a problem with that?

Critics of Christianity in "claiming the best bits of the bible" shocker!

How I love the west Of Scotland.....not.

I live here and have never yet even noticed any divisions first hand, though I'm told lots about them.

They only booked the band because Mel Gibson turned them down.

duckman
Ever heard the phrase "The same, yesterday, today and forever"?

You worship the same god who thought it was moral to order the genocide of a whole tribe/nation (except for the female virgins) [and theres more].

If the bible was written/inspired by god it is perfectly valid to criticise a religion based on that book for _everything_ it says.

At the risk of "godwin"ing myself (but bear in mind we are actually discussing the subject of genocide), how would you react to someone who said that "hitler may have done some unfortunate things, but I feel that recent discoveries about his early artwork and vegetarianism show him in a different light for the 21st century"

I'm afraid no number of mountain based sermons get you out of the "moral genocide" club.

You're probably thinking something along the lines of "theres an explanation somewhere for all of this I just don't know it yet" or "it'll all become clear someday" because you probably think that Xianity is an internally consistent moral framework established by an infinitely knowledgeable and good diety.

But it isn't and it wasn't.

Just accept that it's all based on made up stories by bronze age tribe, and the need for "difficult" explanations goes away.

You ignored my point that the perpetrators acted in the name of the lord. Despite this you claim the Book/religion has no impact on their behaviour.
The pope has edicts on contraception which results in babies being born in Africa, AIDS being more widespread and children dieing [other factors clearly at work but I notice your lord has not stopped it].
Now the pope may misunderstand the word of the lord but I reckon, if you ask him, he thinks he is doing god's work , on earth through our saviour Jesus blah blah blah.
Most non religious people think condom use to prevent AIDS is OK iirc.
The religious belief is often central to the act committed including barbaric ones.

Pudding you have just rehashed your first statement. Does my membership of a Church and belief in Christianity make me responsible for the acts you describe? And by dint of this mean I condone them? Yes or no please. That is about a close as saying that you,coming from NI are a member of one of the two organisations just because you went to a Prod/Catholic School,even if you claim no connection with either creed. After all SOME people who were once labelled Catholics or Prodestants carry out terrorist attacks.Offensive suggestion,yes?
Actually,how do the UVF and the (new)IRA justify their actions? Surely it is to preserve their way of life,as they see it, and religion is a handy add-on?

You're probably thinking something along the lines of "theres an explanation somewhere for all of this I just don't know it yet" or "it'll all become clear someday" because you probably think that Xianity is an internally consistent moral framework established by an infinitely knowledgeable and good diety

Junkyard,At no point did I claim the Bible had no impact on their behaviour. Charles Manson claimed to be inspired by Helter Skelter by the Beatles, does that mean the Beatles are at fault for his actions? And all Beatles fans murderers?
Again, the point I have made is that people can bend any book,in this case the bible to suit their purpose. That does not mean they represent all Christians or are responsible for all Christians.Nor does it mean, as Pudding seems determined to attach to me,that I condone or excuse their actions.I would suggest that the Pope's edicts on contraception would be linked to a desire to make Catholism remain the largest religion in the world.I am with the "most people" on this, why wouldn't I be?

duckman -

people can bend any book,in this case the bible to suit their purpose

which is what you do on a daily basis? No?

every christian sect claims the bits that suit them and says all the others have it wrong. you'd say the Orange order have it wrong, they can't be 'real' christians if they don't love catholics, they'd say you have it wrong if you tolerate gays etc.

nutters

idave, bible says to do unto other as you would have them do unto you. To me that means tolerating all people,who has that one right,me or the Orange order?

duckman,
It's a book you think god wrote.
It says clearly and explicitly that it's OK to commit genocide (and also to have your neighbors rape the female members of your family, to spare your guests).

So, just to be clear, are you saying god is wrong? or
admitting he used to be immoral genocidal maniac but is much better now?

Oh, and if you don't think that

Xianity is an internally consistent moral framework established by an infinitely knowledgeable and good diety

What do you believe?

As the great biblical scholar duckman once said:

Get over yourself

Charles Manson claimed to be inspired by Helter Skelter by the Beatles, does that mean the Beatles are at fault for his actions

It's a book you think god wrote.
It says clearly and explicitly that it's OK to commit genocide

I think you might be misunderstanding what Christians believe in pudding........I have always assumed that they are in fact, "followers of Christ"

The Old Testament [u]very clearly and explicitly[/u] states "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". However, when Jesus Christ was asked how you should respond if someone slapped you across the cheek, he replied that you should offer the other cheek for them to slap. That couldn't [i]possibly be more different[/i] than the teachings of the Bible at the time.

Furthermore he insisted that you should "love your enemy", again, in [i]complete contradiction[/i] of teachings of the Bible at the time. The most famous parable of all, was 'the parable of the Good Samaritan'. The Good Samaritan wasn't just simply a "good guy", but he was also a "Samaritan" - a hated and despised people.
[u]That's[/u] what made the parable so powerful.

So outraged were the authorities by the [u]heresy and blasphemy[/u] of this maverick rabbi, that they crucified him.
Christians believe that Jesus Christ was put on this earth precisely because of the need to spread this new message ........... mankind was going in the wrong direction, and it needed a 'saviour' a 'messiah' to put it on the straight and narrow.

By all means criticise the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ's teachings which were [i]diametrically opposed[/i] to 'revenge' and 'destroying your enemies'......if you so wish. But it is completely disingenuous of you to suggest that Christians believe in everything which Jesus Christ was opposed to.

Pudding, you are [b]still[/b]going round in circles.You keep getting back to your warped version of the bible. Pretty much everything in my life as a Christian is based on the New Testament, so for me the moral genocide bit is about as important as putting the Mrs in the shed when the painters are in.

I cannot get over why they use the terms Catholic and Protestant.

Are you having a laugh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Boyne

ernie lynch, duckman,
I think that the bible was written by bronze age farmers.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it describes the antics of a bunch of long dead genocidal rapists.

YOU claim it was written by god/jesus.

The Jesus who (allegedly) said "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matt 5:18 (spot the contradiction?)

If you don't see the activities of the old testament [which god/jesus personally directed, ordered and watched over] as a problem for your 21st century bowing and scraping to the "prince of peace", then I'm afraid it's beyond me to explain to you.

It's nice that YOUR god doesn't commit genocide, rape the innocent and put women in sheds once a month (any more).

But its also incredibly interesting how the version of god/jesus you see in the bible reflects your own 21st century views and opinions so closely?

And I'm not 'warping' whats in there, I'm 'quoting' whats in there.

Unsubtle difference.

I advise you to read it closely cover to cover. Best way [i]ever[/i] to abandon the whole thing and start living ;O)

The Jesus who (allegedly) said "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matt 5:18 (spot the contradiction?)

Spot the contradiction? No not really. But that's possibly because I haven't got a clue what it means..........what does it mean ?

ernie lynch, duckman......YOU claim it was written by god/jesus.

I have claimed no such thing.........could Jesus Christ even write ?
I thought Matthew, Mark, Luke and John had something to do with it .....no ?

I don't have a problem with the fact that it describes the antics of a bunch of long dead genocidal rapists.

And yet funnily enough, I get the distinct impression that you do have a problem with it.........in fact, quite a big problem 😕

Feenster wrote:

"deep man, deep"

It doesn't need to be deep to be true 😉

I have claimed no such thing.........could Jesus Christ even write ?

No, but I could have done with him this week - this floor is around a day and half behind schedule - might have been dangerous around power tools though 😯

Pretty much everything in my life as a Christian is based on the New Testament, so for me the moral genocide bit is about as important as putting the Mrs in the shed when the painters are in.

Although the new testament does not dismiss the old testament. If both works were the word of God then who (as Sam Harris observes) decides what is "good" in the good book?

Surfer,some people have a belief system that doesn't conform to your opinion of how it should,why do you have a problem with that?

This is a common response and manipulation of what religion is. I have no problem with your "belief" per se, and as an individual I just assume you believe in fairies. However I do have an issue with the resources that are squandered and the disproportionate influence your belief in an "invisible friend" has on my life.

Whether it be the misallocation of funds due to the favorable tax position your invisible friend enjoys in this country, which I would far rather be spent on the provision of more important resources such as improved healthcare.
Or the disproportinate influence it has over the allocation of funding into medical science, which as a direct result of your unsubstantiated fairy stories has restricted the most ground breaking developments in stem cell research and in the US, set this research back years.
Or maybe I am a little miffed that the leader of the catholic church ruins and prematurely ends millions of innocent believers lives in sub saharan Africa every year, as a direct result of preaching the evil of Condom use (even amongst married couples)

Its far to easy to claim the "golden rule" as a distillation of Chrisitanity however the truth is often a little darker. Your weasel words and cherry picking of texts sounds a little like a BNP supporter claiming not to be a racist but instead a supporter of their tax policies!
If you are a Christian then you need to accept what goes with it in my opinion.

Ok, Surfer I have no problem with your complaints about tax etc,something which people have complained about for the last thousand years.However registered chasrities get the same breaks,do they not? The stem cell issue is one that concerns me on grounds of morality,not religion. My views on contraception are stated above.Who decides what is good in the good book? The individual of course, that is why people down the ages have been able to do so much harm and justify it.
What exactly are my weasel words,would that be having a different point to you and daring to defend it? The comparison to the BNP is almost as good as puddings claims that if you are a Christian, you are an apologist for genocide.You and pudding seem to have a far more restrictive view on what people should and should not be allowed to believe than most Christians,despite any claims you may make about.
So to finish up, may I assume that your view is that as a Christian,I am partly responsibile for every act of genocide carried out in the name of God? There that makes thing simpler.

What he (surfer) said :o)
Theres something odd about all these 'christians'. Running about, not reading their bibles, not bothering to understand theology, not applying any thought or reason to life the universe or anything.
I'm surprised they bother, but I suppose it explains how the whole illogical inhumane mess keeps rumbling on?

duckman,
I'm _not_ saying you should apologise for the genocide in the bible.

I'm just pointing out that YOUR GOD (now including 33.3% Jesus, and added spirit), personally ordered and watched over genocide, rape and mass murder on a collosal scale (all be it a long time ago).

If he exists, he has some pretty difficult questions to answer. If you prefer not to ask ... well whatever :o)

(PS the phrase you use "in the name of" implies that you think that people did these things without gods permission. That would be an error on your part. You should really read it.)

Pudding you seem completely unable to get over the idea that all Christians belong to the moral Genocide club, as you put it.My first point on this post was that these people are not Christians as defined by my defination of what my experience of being and growing up with other Christians is.I am sure you know some people who are Christian as I have tried to define it. are they the same are the paramilitarys who claim links to a church?

And you seem unable (or unwilling) to read or understand whats written in your own holy book by your own god.
Why is that?
(Go on .. read it, I dare you ;o)

PS, I've had this discussion before, and some of the nicest most decent and loving people I know (2 of them) have read the bits in question and thought about it and eventually told me that;

"by definition everything god does is good"
"therefore even if he orders genocide it MUST be moral"
"therefore if he ordered me to go into X town and kill all the occupants it would be the right and moral thing to do"

This is your brain on religion, pretty huh?

PS, I've had this discussion before, and some of the nicest most decent and loving people I know (2 of them) have read the bits in question and thought about it and eventually told me that;

by definition everything god does is good"
"therefore even if he orders genocide it MUST be moral"
"therefore if he ordered me to go into X town and kill all the occupants it would be the right and moral thing to do"

This is your brain on religion, pretty huh?

Sorry don't believe you now. I have read the bible cover to cover many times, you obviously, as Ernie pointed out haven't,as you continue to demonstrate.Oh well; guess we will have to agree to disagree eh? It is a pity you are unable to accept that somebody has a completely different view to you without attempting to undermine it, but hey, applying your own logic, must be your upbringing.

Whatever ... It is sad (and disturbing) but it is true (we don't talk religion much any more and once it was a long walk home :o)

The genocide (and slavery & rape) is there in black and white too.

"I have read the bible cover to cover" Maybe, but you might not have been paying attention.

Anyway (I hope for the last time) [i]I[/i] don't have to justify whats in there.
[i]YOU[/i], (as someone who worships the author) probably should at least try.

I freely admit that there are nice bits (which contradict the evil bits) elsewhere within the same book (thanks Ernie).

But (outside reverso world) that doesn't make it a better book 🙄

Ta ta

Sorry about the dig about your upbringing. So, I am going to the Queens path above Dunkeld this weekend,should be good,if muddy.