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Says alot more about those nutty religious people than tesco as a brand.
That's genius. Tesco Loyal 
We Are The People with the really good prices.
So the shop allegedly formerly owned by Dame Shirley Porter comes up trumps again.
We need to build a bloody great big wall...
5thElefant - MemberWe need to build a bloody great big wall...
But we have all the good trail centres... 🙂
dmiller - Member5thElefant - Member
We need to build a bloody great big wall...
But we have all the good trail centres...exactly 😉
Says alot more about those nutty religious people than tesco as a brand.
Don't think you will find too many of them at Church on Sunday.
Says alot more about those nutty religious people than tesco as a brand.
How's that then? Orange Flute bands represent sectarianism, they play anti Irish and anti catholic tunes, and are un-mistakenly a symbol of protestant/unionist traditions. While I accept they are historic and traditional, and much of their music and traditions are positive and celebratory for the communities they come from, much of the music they play directly references a voilent and troubled, mostly Irish history.
How does booking a band like that to play at a store opening NOT reflect badly on Tesco?
If Tesco had booked a Republican equivelant that celebrated the daring-do of the IRA over the years, would you just have dismissed that as nutty religious stuff?
What you need to understand about this is that the presence of this band in this setting is as offensive and insensitive as the above, or dare I say it as the BNP turnin up to open a Tesco.
It's funny, but it should never have happened.
Their music is probably rather jolly in isolation, as I'm sure are many Irish nationalist songs. But I do think the red hand should have been a clue that there was a problem here. 🙂
That page flashed up a MacAfee warning
If Tesco had booked a Republican equivelant that celebrated the daring-do of the IRA over the years, would you just have dismissed that as nutty religious stuff?
loyalist bands hardly comparable to the scum that is the PIRA.
loyalist bands hardly comparable to the scum that is the PIRA.
There's scum on all sides, and inexcusable violence has been handed out by all sides; orange bands happen to celebrate (among other things) the scum on their side.
Please try and accept that the depth of feeling you feel (and I share) about the PIRA is also the depth of feeling some feel about Orange Flute bands and what they celebrate and represent.
Who cares about the ins and outs, its downright funny.
And yes, Scotland has it's problems with the whole sectarianism garbage, but the rest of the uk isn't without it's stupid in-fighting about s**t that doesn't matter.
Unfortunately we live in a country (well a world really) that is full of backwards prejudices, but none of this is ever one sided and for every ****t on one side shouting the odds there'll be a ****t on the other side shouting right back
@ SV There's no such thing as a Loyalist terrorist group in NI then?
Both sides are as bad as each other.
Unfortunately there seems to be sectarianism of one form or another throughout Scotland. Some football team supporters choose their team based on its percieved affiliation to Celtic or Rangers. Even if that affiliation only stretches to the colours of the strip, Green/White or Red/White/Blue.
A local Academy (school),where I used to live, had to ban Celtic and Rangers strips being worn during its PE classes due to the tensions it caused amongst pupils. I'm not just talking "my team's better than your team" either. It came down to anti Catholic/anti Protestant comments and threats of violence. All of this from 11 to 16 year olds. Charming.
So, Fields of Athenry played over the ASDA tannoy anybody? As somebody who is religious, neither of these groups have anything to do with Christianity any more than a Muslim suicide bomber uses the Koran to justify his or her actions.
Even if that affiliation only stretches to the colours of the strip, Green/White
I'd just like to say that Celtic FC was founded in 1888 in Glasgow by Brother Walfred as a charity to help alleviate poverty among the immigrant Irish population in the East End of Glasgow. So Celtic's affiliation to Ireland goes a bit deeper than the colour of it's strip.
There's scum on all sides
Agreed but there are ordinary decent people, who are band members, invovled with celebrating a 300+ year old battle victory. The Loyalist bands themselves did not carry out violent acts.
@ SV There's no such thing as a Loyalist terrorist group in NI then?
Unfortunatley there most cerainly is. If the PIRA didnt exist neither would the UVF/UFF/LVF etc. I am disgusted by both sides but feel it unfair to tar the Loyalist bands with the paramilitary brush.
People claim its religious but as I said you will not find them attending their local place of worship on a regular basis.
@ Feenster, I think you misunderstood my comments. I was trying to make the point that other teams or fans using certain colours may be trying to affiliate with Celtic/Rangers. I know that not all fans attach sectarian values to their allegience of a particular football team. I was trying to make the point that the whole Catholic v Protestant conflict in NI has been hijacked by fans in Scotland. Not all parties are card carrying Loyalist/Republican terrorists. The vast majority of folk are simply trying to raise families in a safe environment and aren't interested in the politics of it all.
Most people don't seem to realise that the increased military presence in NI was there to protect the Catholic residents from Protestant attack in the 60's. Eammon Holmes (TV presenter) was forced from his home as a child due to anti Catholic violence, 1 of many 1000's.
Didn't misunderstand you.
Not many people realise or understand why fans of a Football club in Glasgow so visibly and fanatically affiliate themselves with Ireland.
It seems ridiculous, unless you understand how and why Celtic FC started, and I just wanted to point that out for the benefit of anyone who didn't know.
I never realised how tribal scotland was. Weird.
No probs feenster. Just think a team should be supported for its sporting history and present day performances. Naive maybe?
Reminded me of the fall in sales of Sugar Puffs in Wearside after NUFC manager Kevin Keegan appeared in the TV advert. 🙄
As somebody who is religious, neither of these groups have anything to do with Christianity any more than a Muslim suicide bomber uses the Koran to justify his or her actions.
Of course they do! Both books preach violence, intolerance and misogyny in spades.
Selective reading perhaps?
a team should be supported for its sporting history
Ok then - Celtic were the first British team to win the European Cup - 1967. With team of fellas from Glasgow, apart from one who was from Lanarkshire, just nearby. 😉
and present day performances
Let's not go there 😉
If the PIRA didnt exist neither would the UVF/UFF/LVF etc.
The UVF were formed before the IRA. 1912 and 1913 iirc but both prior to WW1.
The later UVF (no link to first was formed in 1966)and the PIRA in 1969.Given that I dont see how your statement can be considered true or accurate.
i think pipe bands are for retards and bigots and i'm an ulster protestant
Actually I wondered when you would turn up surfer,please link either the UVF or the PIRA to Christianity for me please.
These bands have nothing to do with Religion. They do not generally have beliefs in a god, they do not follow the guidance set out by Christianity and they do not represent it.
I cannot get over why they use the terms Catholic and Protestant. One of societies biggest misnomers.
Junkyard - agree there is no way that you could link the brave men of WW1 with the drug dealing gangsters of today. Only in name are they connected DEFINATELY not in bravery.
The loyalist parailtaries would/could not have survived if the PIRA had not started their thirty years of murder.
I am in no way supporting the Loyalist Paramilitary cause just pointing out that the bands do have a vast majority of decent people playing within them. As in all walks of life there is a small minority spoiling their name eg GAA.
sv you should probably re read what fenster originally said. He compared the presence of the flute band to a another band that SUPPORTED the IRA, not the IRA themselves.
Having been brought up in Motherwell, very close to Belshill, the sooner all such bands and marches are outlawed the better. They are, or at least were, nothing more than an excuse for drunkeness intollerance and hatred under the guise of "tradition".
presence of the flute band to a another band that SUPPORTED the IRA, not the IRA themselves
The majority of loyalist bands dont support loyalist paramilitaries and as I have said the majority of people who make up these bands are decent folks who cannot be tarred with the one brush.
The majority of loyalist bands dont support loyalist paramilitaries
Either I'm niave and deluded or you are
I'm originally from Lanarkshire myself and I completely agree with Gonefishin - whatever the supposed "noble" cause of these bands/marches - they are just an excuse for "ra peepil" and the Plastic Paddy's to get pished and wind-up "the other side" with all their sad wee songs - like an Old Firm game set to music I suppose 🙄
Either I'm niave and deluded or you are
So then you suggest the majority of band members and their families/followers support loyalist paramilitaries. Says a lot about what you think of the people of Ulster.
An old firm game set to music
Like it! I am from Kilmarnock and we used to have to put up with that crap. Till we moved to Dundee and only had to put up with it when the old firm visited.
sv - Member
The loyalist parailtaries would/could not have survived if the PIRA had not started their thirty years of murder.
Again the IRA and the PIRA were [b]both created AFTER the UVF[/b]. They also decomissioned before them as well 2005 v 2009. Why do you think the PIRA /IRA caused the organisations that predated them and outlasted them?
The troubles began after an apprentice boys of derry march led to rioting and about 2000 RC fleeing from their homes in NI and a number being destroyed hence the PIRA was formed to defend these communities. They later developed the strategy of armed resistance/long war etc.
To suggest that the bands /marches are just like Morris Men out enjoying tradition is naive it is a very political act.
Also from Kilmarnock FWIW
I love STW. How to equate flutes with violence.
Duckman, sv, you seem to think that the "issues" in Northern Ireland are not related to christianity.
Ever heard of the "no true scotsman" fallacy?
I assume that (using your definition of "christianity" or "religion") the crusades, the inquisition, the pogroms and all those other naughty historical facts must have been just the result of bad PR, and nothing to do with religion either?
I grew up in NI, in a pretty ugly area. I used to think (probably like you?) that in this sort of tribalism, religion must just be a bystander or an excuse. But experience has shown me that the divide between "the bands" and "the boys" and the church groups they belong to is a slim to non existent one, and that religion is the main way in which they define themselves (and "the other") on both sides.
Religion is completely central to the conflict.
While you may think that christianity precludes violence / ethnic cleansing and hatred, it seems that some members of sectarian terrorist groups have a broader knowledge of the behaviour of religious groups through history than you do.
PS.. Where I grew up the main place used to identify potential recruits for "loyalist" paramilitary organisations was ... the local band.
I never realised they were so thick, hating and religeous!
And Tesco made an error opening over there...
sv, you seem to think that the "issues" in Northern Ireland are not related to christianity
If I was to ask the local paramilitary figure how far along his Christian journey he was what do you think his response would be? I believe he would be more interested in how much money he was making from the drugs he sells to the local school kids. Hardly a Christian outlook.
sv,
What if you were to ask him:
-Do you consider yourself a) catholic or b) protestant?
-How would you feel if one of [the other type] moved in to your street/area?
-How would you feel if your son daughter married a [one of them]?
For you it seems that having a "Christian journey" seems to be the definition of your type of christian? (not a phrase I recognise from the bible?)
Others define it differently. Members of these groups are basically a bunch of hoods and tossers, but religious differences created them and feed them.
eat the pudding While you may think that christianity precludes violence / ethnic cleansing and hatred,
I do,because it does.Please don't try and connect it with the tribalism you experienced when you were young.These guys (both gangs) may claim affiliation to Churches which are tailored to suit their own particular hatreds, but they are no more an example of Christian than I am the example of "buff". I have a masters in History, and as such am WELL aware of the wrongs carried out in the name of religion.However,especially in an age that everybody believes in God, claiming you are doing his work,and anybody who disagrees is going to get killed is rather a convenient way of avoiding any opposition.
The old testament especially, is a shining example of how the Jewish people got stuck into anybody they felt like, obviously they have mended their ways...
But to me Christianity is a system of faith which involves trying to treat others the way you would have them treat you.And actually, the British Government created these differences, we could argue the toss as to which century,if it was Cromwell or the Para's.
Would he know the difference in terms of the religous differences?Do you consider yourself a) catholic or b) protestant?
For you it seems that having a "Christian journey" seems to be the definition of your type of christian?
That was only an example of one question that could be asked.
Members of these groups are basically a bunch of hoods and tossers, but religious differences created them and feed them.
Agreed they are but IMO they know very little about the religous differences. Political perhaps but not religous differences. They are only fed by money and whatever little but of power they have left.
So then you suggest the majority of band members and their families/followers support loyalist paramilitaries. Says a lot about what you think of the people of Ulster.
@sv apologies, took that a bit too far, and I take it back. I don't suggest the majority of band members and their families/followers support loyalist paramilitaries at all.
What I'm suggesting is that much of what flute bands refer to and celebrate is basically sectarianism, bigotry and violence towards Catholics/Irish, and is therefore offensive to many (not just Catholics/Irish either) and has no place a public event such as the opening of a tesco store in Bellshill, Scotland.