[Closed] Terrorism

2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.

I suggest an obligatory house/job/school swap of one in twenty households between rural Surrey and inner-city Leicester. 💡

Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round. If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

Think about it from the Muslim 'incomers' perspective for a second. If faced by a hostile local community that shout '****' and much worse at you across the street where is the incentive to integrate? The current situation is as much the white British people's fault for shunning and ostracising as it is the muslim communities fault for not integrating.

its not an answer?

Before you can find a solution, you need to diagnose the root of the problem; it's only in the last year or 2 more people are becoming aware of the role of the Saudi Empire in actively spreading extremist ideology and the strange and disturbing trend of continued support from western governments and intelligence agencies.

Raising awareness is the 1st step in bringing about positive change and practical solutions, on a grass roots level.

The only way to totally stop these attacks is to have a level of state control and intrusion that we can't financially afford, and I wouldn't want to live under.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40150162/london-attack-theresa-may-says-things-need-to-change

convert

Think about it from the Muslim 'incomers' perspective for a second. If faced by a hostile local community that shout '****' and much worse at you across the street where is the incentive to integrate?

As opposed to actual murderous sectarian hatred they may have left in other countries? Sunni's and Shia's don't exactly live hand in hand in many places. War, ethnic cleansing, genocide and god knows what else people have left behind but yeah someone "shouting ****" probably makes them see western society as something that needs destroyed.

The current situation is as much the white British people's fault for shunning and ostracising as it is the muslim communities fault for not integrating.

No it's not. That's nonsense*. The average "white" British person has little or no blame or responsibility for people conspiring to go on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

*awaits 3 week ban.

If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

I have the most bizarre image in my head of you inviting the Muslim kids over and then force feeding them sausages, whilst shouting "this is ENGLAND".

1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.
2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.
3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.
4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.

Ah, four of the commandments of the Western Religion.

Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

The western Religion has spoken.

@tom_w1987

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/greek-cypriot-state-terror-revealed.en.mfa

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/famagusta-ghost-town-heart-cyprus/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EOKA_B

For more information on the alignment of various terror organisations in Turkey and the Middle East I would recommend you look at what Sibel Edmonds, former FBI Officer, has to offer on the subject. You may find some enlightening information on our modern situation.

There is a reason the United States Intelligence Community placed so many gagging orders? on her.

Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round.

What if they don't want to, what if they are happy as they are. Integration sounds like the ideal but that is not how the human race works and is largely a dream scenario.

Take the million or so brits in Spain. Have they spread themselves across the whole of Spain integrating into all the villages and small towns. No, they have largely stayed together and go to the "british" pub and have fish and chips. This is not a muslim/UK integration issue.

I don't think the British pensioners are blowing themselves up on the Costa del Sol though kerley.

I have no clue what you are going on about El-bent.

. The average "white" British person has little or no blame or responsibility for people conspiring to go on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

as for integration its a human thing and everyone needs to do more.
Who here thinks the brits in spain are wandering around perfectly integrated and indistinguishable from the local populace?

its an interesting tangent
how is the expat community viewed across the rest of spain? Do they bring wealth and are tolerated, or do they do nothing for the average espanol

/tangent

Integration sounds like the ideal but that is not how the human race works and is largely a dream scenario

British history disagrees. We're full of all sorts of people from all over the world. The end of street has families from Europe, South Asia, East Asia, the Middle East and Southern Africa, and their kids are all everyday British kids with Cardiff accents. One generation is all it took. That's not to mention Jews, Hugenots, and whoever else from history.

The thing is that when people integrate, you don't notice them. I had a British Muslim colleague, he was the same as everyone else. In fact even more cynically grumpily piss-takingly British than the rest of us.

Yes and they all fit in and rub along together with largely shared values...except one group of course.

Thats not blaming that group btw but the influencers we let prey on them.

We (our leaders) are talking to the wrong people in the Muslim community. The council are all self selected, male and older. The majority of the population group is young and female. Just maybe we should get this sorted first?
(Grabbed from The Conversation UK) earlier

Sunni's and Shia'

Short marriage to be sure - but I love I Got You Babe.

except one group of course

Which group?

@MG
I think the time for your kind of silliness has past.

[quote=Sandwich ]We (our leaders) are talking to the wrong people in the Muslim community. The council are all self selected, male and older. The majority of the population group is young and female. Just maybe we should get this sorted first?
(Grabbed from The Conversation UK) earlier

Just not true
http://www.mcb.org.uk/announcement-of-mcb-election-candidates/

Who here thinks the brits in spain are wandering around perfectly integrated and indistinguishable from the local populace?

Well, I probably did get a bit more burnt than my clubmates this weekend during the race, but at the same time I think I'm fairly integrated. So to answer the question: yes and no.

Turns out one of the trio was reported by a neighbour recently. The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent. Maybe good old fashioned men on the ground info gathering and not blanket surveillance should be a top priority. More wheat less chaff.

I have no clue what you are going on about El-bent.

How comes I'm not surprised at this?

@MG
I think the time for your kind of silliness has past.

Not being silly. If you don't understand my question then say so, don't insult.

I wanted to know if wilburt was suggesting Muslims don't integrate? Or singling out some sub-set of Muslims for not integrating? The former is manifestly not true, the latter is a pointlessly self-referential - of course people who don't integrate don't integrate, by definition. There will always be immigrants who don't integrate, because some of them are simply shy.

The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent.

Or just under-resourced?

Apparently five other potential attacks have been foiled in the last ten weeks.
I think the intelligence services are simply overwhelmed.
And what do you then do with the suspect? You need fairly firm evidence to put them in jail, where they would just end up radicalising other people.
Perhaps send them to Downing St for a telling off by the bloody difficult woman, after she has told off Google and Facebook.

No it's not. That's nonsense*. The average "white" British person has little or no blame or responsibility for people conspiring to go on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

You misinterpreted what I meant. I meant the current level of integration or lack there of is as much the responsibility of the white British as it is the Muslim immigrants (or two or three generations standing).

Maybe good old fashioned men on the ground info gathering and not blanket surveillance should be a top priority.

I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration.

Denying that is silly.

The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent.

Or just swamped with information keeping an eye on 20,000 plus people? And just throwing money and staff at the problem means you have less experienced people trying to do the same impossible task.

except [b] a tiny minority of [/b] one group of course

I think you'll find

I'm not talking about the ones who kill people but the ones who reject western values.

They are not a tiny minority and should be stopped.

I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration

Can you go into a bit more detail?

Manchester is presently delivering a massive two fingers to terrorism! 🙂

Pop down to Halifax, Dewsbury, Rochdale etc with your daughter or wife.
Have a walk around so how it works out for them.

I'm not talking about the ones who kill people but the ones who reject western values.

They are not a tiny minority and should be stopped.

This group always get mentioned, yet despite living, working and close friendships with people who follow Islam - they seem a very small, perhaps tiny minority. This, in a major city with a large Muslim population - Birmingham.

I don't just associate with male Muslims but Muslim women and whole families too. Not just professional or middle class Muslims either l, but those from Sparkhill, Ward End, Sparkbrook etc. So surely they cannot be a large group?

What would I do,
1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.
2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.
3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.
4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.
Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round. If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

secular education system you say? Like France? How well is that working out for them? give me a break, your rhetoric is rooted in prejudice, whilst you seek a solution however noble that is, further persecution is not the answer.

Turns out one of the trio was reported by a neighbour recently. The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent. Maybe good old fashioned men on the ground info gathering and not blanket surveillance should be a top priority. More wheat less chaff.

Without going into specifics, we live in a societal time when there has been a huge upswing against intelligence gathering and 'secrets'. Wiki leaks, Snowden etc have moved the dial on public tolerance of being surveilled. However, the public has an expectation of safety which does sadly require intelligence operations and secrecy. A delicate balance. I work in this area and all I will say is for every successful attack there will have been myriads of foiled ones which you will never hear about. I do think things need to change but covert comms channels make it incredibly difficult to monitor, WhatsApp I'm looking at you. Tough times for sure. What I'm sure of is they aren't incompetent.

If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

They do, I was walking through Birmingham the other day and there was half a dozen kids, average age of 6, in a variety of skin colours and speaking brummie with a variety of accents running around and playing happily together.

The problem is, as they grow up the media and their older peers or parents will teach them that there accents and skins makes them different. Racism and fear of other cultures is taught. Simple as, it's nurture not nature.

reject western values

What does that even mean? Just over 50% of those who voted last June did that (or my perception of those value). I would probably find this QT lot equally contemptible as those who committed the atrocities in London and Manchester - can we intern them aswell?

[img] ?w=470[/img]

Did you not learn from the last time for arguing on a thread where respect should be shown? See you in 2 weeks.

If only the numbers of police hadn't been cut.

equally contemptible as those who committed the atrocities in London and Manchester

Delete your account.

[quote=molgrips ]I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration
Can you go into a bit more detail?

Hadith or Koranic reference please

My specific objection Nzcol is the blanket collection of information. Targeted intelligence there isn't a problem with at any level. I regularly read Schneier and the intelligence community is constantly over reaching its remit. I don't expect to be 100% safe that is incompatible with a free society. Concentration on those that are reported by the community would be a better approach than over reliance on blanket computer monitoring. 2 attacks from people reported is incompetence get out from behind the screen and do it the old fashioned way.

[quote=Nipper99 said]I would probably find this QT lot equally contemptible as those who committed the atrocities in London and Manchester

Then you are an idiot.

At a bit of a tangent maybe law enforcement and the judiciary might take road killings of cyclists a little more seriously as a result of Westminster and London Bridge. We can but hope! 😉

Pop down to Halifax, Dewsbury, Rochdale etc with your daughter or wife.
Have a walk around so how it works out for them.

I've been to Halifax. Saw nothing unusual.

I was walking through Birmingham the other day and there was half a dozen kids, average age of 6, in a variety of skin colours and speaking brummie with a variety of accents running around and playing happily together.

I think the majority of people do this. It's just that some people want to focus on the segregationists so they notice that more than integration.