MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
We stayed at Eurocamp a few times. Got plenty of practice in French when out and about.Hanging around the site speaking English isn't mandatory. Just because some people don't have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean no-one does. I'm sure that many people wouldn't bother doing anything educational, but many would. And being abroad gives kids opportunities that they can't get here.
Yep, fair enough - but equally, the opportunity is there for loddrick to take his kids to France and not speak a word of French the whole time. He's spent 5% of his annual income on this holiday already - it's not like he's gonna be off down the boulangerie in the morning, or hiring bikes off of Pascal down at Locations Velo.
That's why they organise exchange trips after all.
I'm not against the idea of taking kids abroad - I'm all for it. But not at the expense of taking them out of school - nowt wrong with an exchange trip, though.
So perhaps teachers should work with parents who wish to take their kids out of school to make their trip educational and worthwhile.
WHY should they? Why should they have to take up extra work just because parents want a holiday they can't afford?
I'm not against the idea of taking kids abroad - I'm all for it. But not at the expense of taking them out of school - nowt wrong with an exchange trip, though.
Exchange trips are in school time though, aren't they? So what's the difference?
All I'm saying is, if you take your kids out of school you have a responsibility to educate them whilst they are away.
Does it? How do you know how much money his parents had? Do you know the other decisions his parents made or sacrifices they made to be able to purchase said caravan? or is that not the analysis you are interested in?
What's to analyse? His parents had a caravan and took him on foreign holidays - my parents never had the money to do that kind of thing. It's not like they lived a profligate lifestyle - neither of them drank, they never went out, and we always had old knacker cars. What sacrifices would you like me to use the ouija board to ask them that they could have made in order for us to have a caravan?
I can't believe we're now arguing that people with caravans in the seventies were wealthy. 😕
Exchange trips are in school time though, aren't they? So what's the difference?
A decent exchange trip should be more educational than a prolonged booze cruise on a campsite (or I would hope it is, anyway...) - all the school stuff is organised around it, so no-one misses out.
All I'm saying is, if you take your kids out of school you have a responsibility to educate them whilst they are away.
Yeah, I think that's fair enough. I'd just say - don't blummin do it! 🙂
So do you think having enough to buy an old used caravan and a Nissan Sunny is enough to qualify as rich?
Rhe way I see it, there's poor, normal, and rich. Rich people stay in resort hotels and fly places, and go skiing.
I can't believe we're now arguing that people with caravans in the seventies were wealthier than Pondo's mum and dad.
FTFY 😀
my parents never had the money to do that kind of thing. It's not like they lived a profligate lifestyle - neither of them drank, they never went out, and we always had old knacker cars. What sacrifices would you like me to use the ouija board to ask them that they could have made in order for us to have a caravan?
Dont know, you made the statement. I'm just asking the question. I suppose the answer is you dont have a clue?
So do you think having enough to buy an old used caravan and a Nissan Sunny is enough to qualify as rich?
Hey, I'm not saying rich! Just closer to it than my mum or dad.
(I shouldn't have got involved in this, should I...? 🙁 )
Just because some people have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean everybody does - in fact I don't think there is much dispute that educational holidays are the exception rather than the norm. Presumably parents should be required to fill in an application form before they go explaining the educational merits of the trip in order to get permission, and on return the kids have to sit a test on what they've learned? In fact isn't that pretty much what BillOddie's parents had to do for the trip to NZ?
Alternatively we could just assume that holidays will be non-educational, and politely suggest to parents that they don't take their kids out of school for them (and for those who don't respond to polite requests, find some other way to incentivise them).
All I'm saying is, if you take your kids out of school you have a responsibility to educate them whilst they are away.
How exactly do you plan to make sure that happens?
In order to make my position clear, I should point out that my parents owned a caravan.
Dont know, you made the statement. I'm just asking the question. I suppose the answer is you dont have a clue?
The statement I made was that his parents were wealthier than mine? On consideration, I now fully retract it, as I wasn't expecting financial statements to be required. 🙁
How exactly do you plan to make sure that happens?
Well when my nine year old niece came over in term time she had to write up where she'd been and what she'd learned in terms of history and geography (which was quite a bit). Treated it like an extended field trip.
Or, if going to France say, get them to write down when they use their French and perhaps supply some new words and phrases to use.
In fact isn't that pretty much what BillOddie's parents had to do for the trip to NZ?
Like I said I was 8 but I believe there were letters and hopps that needed to be jumped through.
I think the head was relativley relaxed about that sort of thing.
I also suspect it helped that my father was a Uni Lecturer.
Well when my nine year old niece came over in term time she had to write up where she'd been and what she'd learned in terms of history and geography (which was quite a bit). Treated it like an extended field trip.
From the US? Presumably there aren't huge numbers of US kids taking term time trips to the UK.
I'm not entirely sure that's what all the people signing the petition have in mind. Nor am I sure it would be all that practical for schools to implement that for lots of kids every year - you might be the exception, but I suspect a lot of kids going to Eurocamp don't speak any French whilst there.
Nissan Sunny
You had a Nissan Sunny.... We dreamed of owning a Nissan Sunny!
From the US? Presumably there aren't huge numbers of US kids taking term time trips to the UK.I'm not entirely sure that's what all the people signing the petition have in mind.
No, but banning term time holidays altogether would prevent the 'good' kind of holiday as well as the 'bad' kind.
So perhaps it should be left up to the school.
So perhaps it should be left up to the school.
Thats makes sense and then its up to the parents to make their case.
I suspect head teachers would rather the decision was taken out of their hands however. If they have autonomy then I can only imagine the pressure they will receive from certain parents.
Easier for them to say "nothing to do with me guv"
I've held off reading this thread till now. All it has taught me is that if the chips on your shoulders get too big they eventually turn into blinkers.Having kids and fitting work around them restricted our income. Our restricted income meant we couldn't afford expensive holidays at any time of the year. Ergo, we have cheap holidays whenever our kids educational requirements allow.
We went to school often enough ourselves so that we were capable of figuring it out when we made the lifestyle choice to have kids.
Just reposting this from MCTD as it can't be put any better.
END OF THREAD.
You havent been here long feefoo,have you?
Longer than you I reckon. Let's start an argument over that! 😀
😆
When did a nice holiday become some sort of civil right? We have the right to time off work as "holiday" time, ie you don't have to do 12 hour shifts 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, even in Yorkshire. Kids have a right to time away from school - something like 13 weeks away from school.
At no time have we ever had the "right" to go on a nice holiday - that is a question of income and lifestyle choice/priorities.
Maybe travel companies take the p-roverbial in school holiday time, maybe if fewer parents hadn't taken the p-roverbial in the past schools would have more discretion about reasonable time for more "educational/experiential" holidays, but to argue that a parent has any sort of right to take their child out of school in term time to go on a holiday is just the politics of jealousy.
I seriously haven't seen anyone argue that a nice holiday is any kind of civil (or human, as mentioned earlier) right. Has someone argued that?
Parents should be able to choose for themselves obviously.
The education system has clearly failed many of you.
No, but banning term time holidays altogether would prevent the 'good' kind of holiday as well as the 'bad' kind.So perhaps it should be left up to the school.
Or maybe the 'good' holidays aren't of sufficient benefit to actually be worth the bother, and it's a lot easier just to ban them all rather than get into the grief of having lots of parents trying to convince the school that their 2 weeks in Benidorm are a 'good' holiday. Do you honestly think kids are going to really suffer from not getting 2 weeks of speaking a little bit of French at Eurocamp during term time when they could be wasting it on lessons instead?
Just because some people do[s]n't[/s] have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean [s]no-one[/s] everyone does.
As already pointed out, you don't seem to grasp that not everyone has your values - maybe you missed those classes?
The way some people have argued about how important it is to take little Johnny and Judy to a beach in Spain every year, I mistakenly thought it was up there along with clean water and trial by jury? 😉
The way some people have argued about how important it is to take little Johnny and Judy to a beach in Spain every year
Can you tell me where this has been argued?
As already pointed out, you don't seem to grasp that not everyone has your values - maybe you missed those classes?
Well no if you read back I've acknowledged that several times.
You are missing the point. If you ban ALL holidays, you are stopping people having good educational experiences as well as null ones.
If it's left up to discretion, as I'm suggesting (and as it has been for a while afaik), then we stand a good chance of allowing good experiences and limiting the useless ones.
Do you honestly think kids are going to really suffer from not getting 2 weeks of speaking a little bit of French at Eurocamp during term time when they could be wasting it on lessons instead?
Yes, quite possibly. Certainly a shitload more stimulating for me than staring out of the window in lessons.
You are missing the point. If you ban ALL holidays, you are stopping people having good educational experiences as well as null ones.
No-one's suggesting banning ALL holidays, only the ones that stop kids from going to school. Or do you only have "educational experiences" during term time?
And, and I might have missed this, how come a caravanning holiday on a campsite means you have to take time off school? Don't the ferries run and caravan sites open when the schools are off?
I've lost your thread completely.
I meant if you ban all holidays IN TERM TIME then you stop people having good educational experiences as well as null ones. I'd have thought that was obvious.
And, and I might have missed this, how come a caravanning holiday on a campsite means you have to take time off school?
Well the point of this thread is that people may only be able to afford to go abroad outside of school holidays. Some people are saying this is a frivolous waste of quality education time; I am posing an alternate point of view.
I meant if you ban all holidays IN TERM TIME then you stop people having good educational experiences as well as null ones. I'd have thought that was obvious.
But if you ban all holidays in term time, then the kids are all having good educational experiences in school and you don't have to worry about the null ones. Also, good educational experiences are available to all in the fabulous country we live in.
I would like to see an attempt to minimise the issue, but fundamentally it seems sound policy to insist that children aspire to 100% attendance.
the kids are all having good educational experiences in school
Oh.. really? 🙂
Can you tell me where this has been argued?
loddrick's been playing that tune - "they deserve a nice holiday" and all that.
"Companies in fulfilling their obligation to shareholders and maximising profit opportunities" shocker.
As has been said loads of times on here and elsewhere, supply and demand dictate prices. The holiday companies are businesses with overheads and profit targets to achieve. If these aren't met, jobs go. They are businesses, not charities, and holidays are luxuries not rights.
You take the holiday you can afford, at the time your kids' education allows. That's the sacrifice you make as a parent.