[Closed] Tell me something about

D'y laike dags?

2 in one day?

If it helps I've a very good friend and colleague who comes from a traveller family, only 2 generations, he's a medical professional and his father a teacher.

Badly tarmac'd drives....

2 in one day?

I am sorry in advance if this one is inappropriate. If so, I welcome its deletion.

But I really do want to know.

They have a bad rep and seem to be happy to live up to it.
When I was motorbiking in the 80s we were public enemy no.1.
Certain people organised toy runs and slowly our rep improved. You are unlikely to be confronted by a sign on a pub saying NO MOTORCYCLISTS any more.
I'm sure if they tidied up after themselves we would all feel a bit more positive about them.

I have had several bad interactions with the traveling community.

OK get the banning hammer out...

I wholeheartedly accept that it is not appropriate to label entire populations with sweeping generalisations and I equally accept that there are exceptions within any population.
However speaking from my personal experiences and accepting that others will have had different experiences....
I have largely only had very negative experiences of the gypsy/traveller community. I find that things get stolen whenever the chance offers it, I have been lied to repeatedly and felt threatened and intimidated many times.
They seem to live by different rules and I for one avoid if I can.
Their society appears to be racist, misogynistic and homophobic and they do not seen to be kind to animals.
I accept the inevitable ban but have only told it as I have found it.

Quite private people who enjoy the "dangerous" reputation to keep other trouble makers away. Their traditional way of life is increasingly being legislated against and increasingly it's only the tough/bad families that survive. I've known a few travelers of Romany and Irish origin, who were awesome people, but sadly the negative stereotypes are what people tend to recognise

100 years ago they were accepted and even admired parts of the rural economy. Even post war the farm my family come from welcomed them on their annual visit because they had skills that were rare and thus useful. Mainly in this case knife / scythe sharpening.

As their lifestyle became more difficult to follow and they were excluded from society they became "outsiders" and a process of alienation occurred. No legal places to camp - then camp illegally and when you are not wanted why take care of your campsite? leading to further rejection from society which leads to further rejection of societies norms until we reach the situation today where they are demonised and ostracised and as they have no stake in society they do not feel bound by societies rules. In a hundred years they have gone from a useful and valued part of the rural economy to reviled outcasts and they close ranks and ignore societies rules

See the demonisation of "lycra louts" to understand how this works

A person experience of travellers. My motorcycle broke down about 20 miles from my parents hose. There were travellers with a van in a nearby layby. I asked them if they would take me and the bike to my parents for money. they agreed. On the way there we got chatting and when they found out I was a nurse refused all payment.

Thank you, tj. That is genuinely very helpful.

Through personal experience and 2nd hand accounts they consider themselves a separate ethnicity to Brits and even Irish with its own culture rather than a mere subculture.

The individuals I've met don't consider themselves part of mainstream society and don't feel bound by its rules or laws, they feel persecuted by the mainstream society because it unfairly stops them following their chosen lifestyle, whilst it's true laws have been written especially to stop them moving from place to place and squatting on private land they have been provided with land and facilities in exchange - when they were allowed to roam they were parasitic in nature - they'd move into a area and stay until it was uninhabitable due to waste and leave, letting mainstream society clean it up. This happens a lot less these days than it used to.

I think the worst thing to happen to them was the film Snatch, it painted them in the worst possible light and played to every stereotype possible - it's not been helped by the the C5 series on them mistitled "Gypsy" which was very sensationalist, but also showed some of their culture for what it was and not all was pleasant viewing - prior to these, a lot more people had a more romantic idea of Gypsy culture.

There was a TV series on a while ago, called something like My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding which followed some traveller families as they prepared a big wedding. IIRC the groom didn't want to be identified because he had a 'normal' job and he knew that if his colleagues found out he was a traveller he'd be fired.

So I suppose like any other community there are good people and bad. My brother in law used to work with travellers. They are very insular indeed as you might expect, often marginalised and the kids that he had to deal with were not really prepared to socialise with outsiders. If any of the kids had problems they weren't dealt with in the way we'd expect in our community.

I imagine that there would be parallels with other marginalised isolated communities like say Appalachia 100 years ago, or possibly American first nations. Of course I can't comment with any amount of authority on these things but it would be interesting to learn more.

I think the worst thing to happen to them was the film Snatch, it painted them in the worst possible light and played to every stereotype possible

Well it was a film of stereotypes, and I have there might be a kernel of truth in the movie, but on the other hand EVERY SINGLE TIME the topic comes up someone quotes from that part of the movie. Usually the same line. Do yourselves a favour guys.

I have had very bad experiences with the larger groups of them. When they are moving through my area I tend to have my valuable stuff well away from home.

Personnal experience.

Utter scum.

No doubt there are good and bad. I've yet to experience the former.

Lots of groups of our society have been demonized, however i've never seen any other groups having a shite in a lay by, in broad daylight.

Personal experience is entirely negative (but I make no assumption that this is representative of the entire community). Mostly rude, racist van men conning unwise homeowners by doing terrible quality building work, with no comeback as they consider themselves beyond the law.

Mixed experiences here.

Worked at a large gym in the late 90s when we had our car park taken over by Irish travellers. Cost a fortune to get them moved on and clean up after them.

Before that I was an insurance claims manager. We had shocking claims figures when we managed to corner the market on one council estate they were using to settle travellers! When I went out to check the area's I saw a horse being led through the house to get from the front garden to the back.

Since then I've dealt with them at various locations in connection with benefits claims. Seem to have their own internal economy when it comes to sorting out pitches and caravans, everything on a hand written receipt.

I've been too intimidated by groups of large abusive male travellers to enter sites. I've been offered tea and biscuits in immaculate vans on other sites by very sincere and interesting people, as well as some who are making the transition to a more settled "house based" lifestyle.

I've also seen the problems they have when councils don't provide them with sites they can use and they can't find anywhere to stay.

Some seem to relish living up to the stereotype though, but many don't deserve it

Lots of groups of our society have been demonized, however i've never seen any other groups having a shite in a lay by, in broad daylight.

rugby fans?

Paula Radcliffe?

There are less legal pitches in the UK than there are travellers.

On a 1:1 basis I've had nothing but positive experiences.

I have a surname common amongst travellers and whist not knowingly having any traveller connections whatsoever I do have some very old Irish connections, dating back to the times when Cromwell screwed over Ireland. Maybe that has something to do with it, dunno.

The pupils I've met in the school I work in have, without exception, wanted to do well. The parents of traveller pupils have always been massively supportive of the school's efforts to do our best too.

One of the girls featured on 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' was called Sammy-Jo. She was pixellated out, but I genuinely thought she was one of my pupils. She wasn't, but understood why I thought that it may have been her when I talked with her about it.

Another aspect is there are several different groups broadly lumped together. The Roma who are a long-standing group that is of probable Indian subcontinent ancestry ( but no one is sure - they have been travelling for many hundreds if not thousands of years). these are the true Gypsies. ~they have had a nomadic lifestyle for a long time and horse trading would seem to have been their main staple - trading peoples.

then there are the Irish travelling people who travelled for work - tinkers is another name. I think these would be the knife sharpeners on my family farm as mentioned above. they travelled from place to place selling their skills. Often very skilled metal workers. I think "tinkering with" as a description of repairing things comes from them. these people are ethnically very different from the Roma

also the Scottish " Summer walkers" - these were people who walked around Scotland doing seasonal farm work as well as selling their skills as above. The last of them I believe is now gone. Some of us will remember the bagpiper and woman selling heather in the layby above bridge of Orchy - IIRC they were the last of the summer walkers.

https://www.birlinn.co.uk/Summer-Walkers-New-Edition.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

[url=

the Gypsy lady selling heather is still going strong...[/url]

Coming from north wales, we got a lot of Irish travellers that would come over every year. They often pitched up on the car park for my old school, and were incredibly aggressive, and eventually got moved on, after creating complete havoc.

More recently a group decided to pitch up at a friends uncles restaurant, and set up camp on the field he owns next door. He requested they leave a number of times, until the police got involved. Still they refused to move. He ended up using his tractor to instead block them in, dug a massive trench at the entrance. They agreed to leave if he filled in the trench.

My employer suffered a tarmac scam at the hands of travellers many years ago, which went down in the annals of company history. They leave a terrible mess but I wonder how many of the good folk who criticise them haven't themselves walked off after a festival and left a supermarket tent, camping mat and sleeping bag along with other food debris littering the festival site for someone else to clear up?

They leave a terrible mess but I wonder how many of the good folk who criticise them haven't themselves walked off after a festival and left a supermarket tent, camping mat and sleeping bag along with other food debris littering the festival site for someone else to clear up?

Nope, never done that.

Again i'd like nothing more than to say something positive, but very difficult too.

We have a permanent camp built for them in the nearest town to me where i live in Norfolk and they are a crime-wave, farm opposite me had £85k of Massey Ferguson stolen, it was left burnt-out in the lay-by opposite the camp 12 miles away from the farm blatantly.

My father in law runs a flint and chalk quarry and has twice had the red diesel stolen from the tanks there, what they couldn't take, they slashed the lines and let in run into the soil and this was all caught on CCTV, Police knew exactly who they were. They used to come round all the time to the quarry trying to flog generators and the like, all stamped "USAF" and stolen from RAF Lakenheath or Mildenhall.

A good friend works for Autoglass and has been into the camp twice to replace a windscreen, both times left with being paid as they just swarmed round him and threatened him.

I could go on, the one pub they all drink in in the town has a massive UKIP banner outside, so i don't feel too bad saying anything about them.

A few years ago i went to Brighton to visit a mate who ran the fair on the pier, they had a huge wedding and the Police had to close the main strip of pubs on a Bank Holiday as they were tearing the place apart, pissing up the walls in the bar and costing the bar owners £1000's in lost profit and damage and a policing bill that must have matched it.

So whilst i do feel that there should be places made available to them and i can sympathise to an extent, they really do not do themselves any favours whatsoever.

They leave a terrible mess but I wonder how many of the good folk who criticise them haven't themselves walked off after a festival and left a supermarket tent, camping mat and sleeping bag along with other food debris littering the festival site for someone else to clear up?

For those that have done that. Maybe it's just one or two times. If they did it every couple of weeks/months then it might be an issue.

But then there are paid crews to tidy up afterwards, and some of it gets recycled.

To be honest, what you have there is an apple and an orange.

Anyway. They nicked my dad's van plus all tools, self employed builder and back when tool insurance wasn't really a thing, which as my only interaction with them has coloured my view of them somewhat.

They leave a terrible mess but I wonder how many of the good folk who criticise them haven't themselves walked off after a festival and left a supermarket tent, camping mat and sleeping bag along with other food debris littering the festival site for someone else to clear up?

You'd never get me near a music festival, but I applause your whataboutery, bravo.

Mixed views and experiences here..
(Note - I'm not familiar with the different types of travellers - so inevitably tar them all with the same brush)

My wife is a secondary school teacher and has taught traveller kids for almost 20 years.
Whilst some of the kids are pleasant, well mannered and quite bright, there is no parental support for education and most/all are pulled out at 14/15 with the boys going to work in the family business.
The girls are often negative towards education and have resigned themselves to ending up as a housewife at 16.

We've recently had travellers camped outside our office - they were absolute scum. (note - all vehicles had UK number plates)
They pulled concrete bollards out of the ground, and stole every metallic object that wasn't bolted down.
Their filthy kids threw stones at our cars when we were driving to/from work, and when the police moved them on the rubbish they left was shocking.
Soiled nappies thrown into bushes, food waste everywhere, gas bottles, etc.

However, a few weeks back we had Irish travellers (all vehicles had Irish plates) camped on our village green.
They had horses/ponies with them and were apparently on their way to Appleby.
When they moved on the field was left spotless, with just a couple of neatly ties sacks of rubbish left next to the bins. even the horse dung had been cleared up.

My biggest gripe is the fact many are happy to take from society, but contribute nothing back. (yes, I am talking about taxes) It costs society a fortune to keep moving them on and clearing up after them, yet what do they provide in return?

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tjagain - Member
100 years ago they were accepted and even admired parts of the rural economy. Even post war the farm my family come from welcomed them on their annual visit because they had skills that were rare and thus useful. Mainly in this case knife / scythe sharpening.

As their lifestyle became more difficult to follow and they were excluded from society they became "outsiders" and a process of alienation occurred. No legal places to camp - then camp illegally and when you are not wanted why take care of your campsite? leading to further rejection from society which leads to further rejection of societies norms until we reach the situation today where they are demonised and ostracised and as they have no stake in society they do not feel bound by societies rules. In a hundred years they have gone from a useful and valued part of the rural economy to reviled outcasts and they close ranks and ignore societies rules

See the demonisation of "lycra louts" to understand how this works

Ah yes, it's all society's fault...

I live in a town nicknamed the Gypsy Capital of England, and have Romany neighbours. When they bought the house, there were all sorts of rumours and warnings about how terrible life would become. None came to pass. Their house is now the nicest in the street.

Years ago, he asked if they could buy the bottom of our garden off us. After we declined, we were warned that we'd be threatened and intimidated. Nothing happened. A few years later, he inherited his dad's horse (this may confirm a stereotype) and asked again. We sold the land, with no problems at all. The horse is immaculately looked after.

Like gingers and fatties, it seems that gypsies are still fair game for abuse and prejudice.

Jakster - I did not say that in any way. I explained how a group becomes outcasts and alienated and what the result is

We see exactly the same happening with Lycra louts - and don't try to pretend that cyclists behaviour in some cases has not got worse over the years because of this exact reason.

Nothing but negative experience here either sadly.

They have an annual horsefair in the next town to me which definitely doesn't sit well with residents but of course you mustn't try to make any correlation with this and crime rate spikes.

They(different vans, usually with Irish plates) drive into the college site I work at weekly, taking anything they fancy, including metal manhole covers.

A group took over a pub car park in my town on more than one occasion and the pub had to endure the lengthy and costly eviction and clean up procedure.

I've never met a single person with anything positive to say about them. Deplorable parasitic culture and astounding that it goes unchecked virtually.

There are good folk in all groups and clearly TJ has experienced these. I've not.

I've never met a single person with anything positive to say about them.

You probably interact with 'them' all the time, without even realising it.

Judging gypsies by the actions of one highly visible group is like judging all white British people by the actions of chavs, or all Scottish people by the drunk ones that are on every train.

I've never met a single person with anything positive to say about them.

They did a brilliant job re-surfacing our driveway.

tjagain - Member
Jakster - I did not say that in any way. I explained how a group becomes outcasts and alienated and what the result is

We see exactly the same happening with Lycra louts - and don't try to pretend that cyclists behaviour in some cases has not got worse over the years because of this exact reason.

Actually, that's exactly what you said. No-one [u]forces [/u]a group of travellers to break their way onto private land, occupy it illegally, and then intimidate the landowner when asked to leave.

"They" were not "excluded" from society; "they" chose to adopt a way of life which meant they withdrew from 'fixed' society.

Even if it were society's fault that there is no-where for them to camp, that does not excuse behaviour such as that above, or leaving sites filthy etc etc.

If they cared so much about their way of life, why doesn't the travelling community buy plots of land for them to use, instead of relying on the state (that they have implicitly rejected) to do it for them?

Jakster - hear that wooshing noise? Thats the point flying over your head.

The polarisation and demonisation of travellers has been building up over many decades

As for buying plots of land - they have tried that and what happens is they get tonnes of legal hasle and refused planning permission / change of use.

Even post war the farm my family come from welcomed them on their annual visit because they had skills that were rare and thus useful.

A few of the hereditary estates locally still have travellers/gypsies over-winter on them, in exchange for labour. But that said; the travellers seem to be mainly 'lifestyle' or 'new age-ish' (i.e. horse drawn and yurts) rather than your bog-standard caravan and 4x4 types.

I've seen some fairly hideous pikey tree work - dangerous too.

[img] https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/scannedimage-1-jpg-193928-jpg.291836/ [/img]

Burning question though, living in a caravan, where the f do they hide the kids xmas presents?