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Ok 1) should've said relying on them when there are other deeper issues 🙂
I take care to say what's in my head
Surely ideas are in your head, then you formulate them into words? This is the process that needs to be adapted for different people and situations for maximal accurate transfer of ideas.
sorry I obviously misunderstood the word "fixed"
Fair enough. I don't think there's anything to be gained by continuing with a misunderstanding though.
I understood what Barnes was getting at. I think others do too, now, yet seem to want to continue the argument needlessly. No good saying 'but sir, he said..'. Just not going to have a positive conclusion, that one, is it?
See, the problem here is that Barnes has said something contentious, so instead of coming along and sensibly asking 'sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying could you explain it please?', people are flying off the handle a bit I fear.
FFS, this is [i]me[/i] telling [i]you[/i] this. Something's definitely gone wrong.... 😆
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[b]prognostications[/b]
I like this word...
'Fancy coming down the pub?'
No thanks, I'm too busy [b]prognosticating.[/b]
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E&S I've been trying to clarify the situation for the last 3 pages!
Surely ideas are in your head, then you formulate them into words?
now [b]there's[/b] a good question! It has been mooted that logical thought is impossible without the words to formulate it...
This is the process that needs to be adapted for different people and situations for maximal accurate transfer of ideas.
which is the difference between one-to-one and broadcast conversation!
There are a great number of people wrestling with depression who inhabit this forum
Spending too much time on the internet is a common feature of depression apparently.
Ye Gods I must surely be suicidal then? 😯
Funny really; SFB has made it quite clear that others opinions of him are not something he will give credence to, so everyone has to tell him exactly what they think of him...
It's like approaching Castle SFB, reading the big 'Do not attack this castle from the front because it's well defended' sign, then saying 'Hmm, lets attack this castle......from the front!'
Top tip; he gets a bit un-nerved by people agreeing with him....
Top tip; he gets a bit un-nerved by people agreeing with him...
yeah, [b]elfin[/b] totally blew my cover :o)
I do take notice of people's opinions in an advisory way, but I wouldn't be upset by criticism. Whatever someone says about you actually says more about them and their attitudes, preferences and prejudices (another CBT thing). Once you realise this you can stop agonising over every least remark and just let them wash past 🙂
Spending too much time on the internet is a common feature of depression apparently.
and do we have a definition of "too much" ??
Yet again we have a chance to really analyze a problem that effects the lives of a great many people in a detrimental fashion in our culture.
Yet again our philosophy or shall we say perception of the world (mind set) get's in the way of that. A philosophy is an alaysis technique, when we analyze this situation we come to the conclusion that it's not about finding a solution to the problem but about getting your point across?
If all that happens is that we fight and waste our time, then any ground we could have made will be lost.
Everyone is intitled to their view point, Simon making light of depression isn't such a bad thing, after all it is a state of mind. That's not to say that what each of you suffer isn't real and almost behond endurance, it is relative to your perspective.
What say we simply except that not everyone will have the same view point and that arguing about it benefits no one?
We have at our disposal a lot of people or shall we say analysts, we also have at our disposal the internet and all the resources and possibilities it represents.
Maybe there is no cure and the chemical imbalance that a lot of you suffer cannot be remedied, but considering what you face if you do not find a solution to the problem. You would need to be nuts to spend your time arguing rather than searching for a way to help yourselves!
Am currently reading a book by a doctor who claims that depression can often be due to an underactive thyroid.
Interesting, we are learning a lot about Simon and his past... This is good.
CG - yep.. chemistry can be a cause afaiu.
It's good to discuss things.
As for 'making light' of Depression/MI; it's one way [i]I[/i] deal with things. I accept who and what I am. I'm far more comfortable with that now, than at times in the past.
Interesting, we are learning a lot about Simon and his past... This is good.
Are we? And why would it be 'good'?
I would suggest that Simon is saying that there is more than one way to deal with depression, ie without medication. Sometimes one needs to look outside of the box and challenge viewpoints. Everyone is an individual, we must not forget that.
by a doctor who claims that depression can often be due to an underactive thyroid.
OK, maybe so. All I have to say about that is, I hear what I interpret as the negative thought patterns typical of non somatic depression, and general negative self image from quite a lot of people. Now it could be they have naturally low seratonin levels or underactive thyroids or whatever, and that leads to dysfunctional thinking, but it might be that CBT methods can correct some cases without medication, and without turning them into sociopathic insensitives like me (according to TJ et al)
Are we? And why would it be 'good'?
Cos it brings us all closer together 🙂
SFB thats not what I said - CBT is a useful tool in treating depression - one of many tools available. Suitable for soem people with smoe tipes of depression.
No need to call anyone a tool TJ.
Just noticed this thread and how long it is..
Top tip: read threads backwards for entertainment on stw to help with depression! I couldnt be bothered starting from the start but its quite a good way to start by scanning the tags to get a jist on whose causing havoc/not got much else to do/having yet another easy day at work.. then work back for maximus chortleus.
SFB thats not what I said
TJ: [b]You clearly have some sociopathic / personality disorder traits[/b]
and this from berm_bandit earlier:
SFB. Refresh my memory, you are a Tory voter right?
no friggin WAY! I believe in "to each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities"
CBT is a useful tool in treating depression
Surely it's all about learning to ride a motorbike? I'm not sure I follow.
TJ: You clearly have some sociopathic / personality disorder traits
No arguments there 🙂
Hear , hear Muddypuddle!
I couldn't agree more.
Very well put.
Cos it brings us all closer together
we sociopaths are given to lashing out if crowded...
Just had a quick scan through here, and yikes this is really getting silly now.
SO for the record :
1) I totally disassociate myself with the silly tags at the top of this thread, even if I knew how to do that I wouldn't.
2) The tory voter thing I was seeing an attitudinal link between SFB's simplistic outlook toward dealing with depression and the current tory attitiude to the ****less poor/deficit/cuts. Simon chose not to respond so I chose not to pursue it
3) I am not in any way having a go at Simon, simply pointing out that "Ifixed myself in two weeks" is akin to the MTFU etc attitudes to depression, which are neither helpful or possible as solutions.
The rest is bollocks.
Simon chose not to respond so I chose not to pursue it
I forgot!
simply pointing out that "Ifixed myself in two weeks" is akin to the MTFU etc attitudes to depression
sorry, I just don't agree! The whole point of the CBT is to explain how negative thinking patterns can cause a downward spiral of depression, each feeding the other. These patterns can become heavily ingrained over the years, and perhaps I was lucky (or desperate) to be able to take on board the simple exercises that Burns offers in his book, together with various other attitudinal modifications, so quickly - it really was an epiphany! However, the speed of change isn't really germane, my point is, you CAN make a big difference to your life and happiness level using CBT, and the fact that it can be achieved without medication doesn't belittle the previous suffering.
It's true that the method emphasises self reliance, but as a positive reinforcement, and not implying that a depressive was formerly weak
The rest is bollocks.
I didn't think that - it's been quite interesting. It's mere rhetorical carelessness to dismiss arguments you disagree with as rubbish without addressing their content, and I prefer to assume that counterarguments are genuinely held and have potential merit until proved otherwise.
Blimey !
Rephrase : For The rest is bollocks READ: The rest of what I have posted is bollocks
Better now?
Regarding the CBT thing, I'm really glad you have had your road to Damascus moment with your book. Don't kid yourself that you are fixed, and beware of the fact that one of the factors in depression is this pendulum swing from one position to another. It does not mean you are "fixed". That is the entire point. I'm off now as I have a life and being on the end of an SFB Troll doesn't feature too highly in whats important in it, fun though it might be.
cheers for the chat
Bye
Why not get a list of what techniques work for each of us in terms of either keeping us possitive mental state or for those of us suffering from depression, what helps you through.
If there is anyone that has managed to completely over come it, let's here from them.
If depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, it will be down to something in the physiological process not functining properly.
More likely than not poor breathing, leading to poor digestion, leading to poor assimilation of nutrients leading to poor performance of internal organs.
In effect the brain is being starved of what it needs for higher functioning, I would tihnk this would also cause a chemical imbalance.
Can we please try and analyze the situation and see if we can work out a technique that will improve and hopefully remedy the situation.
Surely that is a better way to spend our time than denying people the right to have their opinion and arguing over that right, now I'm all for causing havoc and winding people up on threads that I feel are crap and useless.
But this is a serious issue and I would like to have a go at understanding what is causing it and finding a way to help people come to appreciate the value they have.
Don't kid yourself that you are fixed
well, OK, I've already acknowledged that the depressive tendencies still exist within me. But now I have a set of mental tools for tackling them, and the fundamental knowledge that I am in control of my feelings and not the other way round. In the same way that negative thinking invites depression, positive thinking overcomes it, and I reject the idea that I am kidding myself when I've been observing it working day to day for 9 years.
Whilst acknowledging that depression can reoccur, the description if it as a pendulum implies a kind of inevitability, encouraging a passive response.
If there is anyone that has managed to completely over come it, let's here from them.
Went from being a suicidal wreck to being fully functional, happy, and side effect free by going to the doctor after 5 years of resisting and getting prescribed lamictal.
Simonfbarnes I hereby give you permision to have over come your depression and to know yourself.
All things are relative to the individual, two people are at the top of a mountain, looking at the same view. one says this is breath taking and wears a grin. The other says I need a crap and this is sh1t, how the f@ck do we get down and wears a frown.
Which one is right?
Which one is right?
Which one is happier?
Interesting thread, which I have been staying out of as I have little knowledge, however what SFB is saying intrigues me.
So, SFB if you "thinks" you is cured (not my words) then surely that is as good as being cured, as it's all down to self-perception ? Obviously this might not work for everybody but in real day to day life of assessing symptoms, sounds feasible.
However, I feel fine, but perhaps I am imagining that, and I am really about plunge into the dark place ?
Interesting idea.
P.S and is it OK now to crack a joke about the lunatics taking over the asylum in here now ?
reading BrudeWee's post I've realised that I may be in the category of people inherently unsuited to drug therapy. I always resist taking any kind of drug (except caffeine) and am always sceptical about their effectiveness. Although I've seen SSRIs described as "happy pills" all they ever made me feel was emotionally numb and indifferent, not a state I'd wish to endure, though somewhat better than suicidal. Loss of sexual capacity made them useless as a long term solution. I know I'm not unique in this.
So, SFB if you "thinks" you is cured (not my words) then surely that is as good as being cured
actually, I think it's better than being cured, as the techniques I've learned are more widely applicable. Once you realise that you need not take responsibility for how other people claim you're making them feel, you become immune to many manipulative ploys, and it's completely quelled my former anger management issues too
More likely than not poor breathing, leading to poor digestion, leading to poor assimilation of nutrients leading to poor performance of internal organs.
Leave it to the experts mate 🙂
Simon - I believe that you do need to take SOME responsibility for how what you do or say makes other people feel. But that other person must not pile guilt onto you either.
Seems to me that you were surrounded by some right crappy people for a long time.. 🙁
I believe that you do need to take SOME responsibility for how what you do or say makes other people feel
you may if you wish, but in fact you cannot [b]make[/b] someone feel something, they have to make an active (though sometimes unconscious) choice to feel that way, and for that matter the feelings invoked bear no relation to your intentions.
Seems to me that you were surrounded by some right crappy people for a long time
not generally, it's just that since I took on CBT I've come to understand the mechanisms involved
If how you behave/what you say winds someone in your life up, you may choose to modify that behaviour.
molgrips - MemberMore likely than not poor breathing, leading to poor digestion, leading to poor assimilation of nutrients leading to poor performance of internal organs.
Leave it to the experts mate
What experts are you refering to, the ones that have had such blinding success that the amount of derpession is greater than ever before?
I have a different philosophy to you molgrips, I prefer to research subjects for myself. If a technique works I would say use it, if it does not, then reject it. If information leads to a better understnadning of a subject or situation, it has value if not, then it does not.
As for leaving things for others (experts) to deal with, I think the state of the world testifies to that not being a good idea or a very effective philosophy for that matter!
To the OP. I hope you're not feeling too bad today. Have a hug and a kiss x
I bought and read "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by Dr Burns (as recommended by SFB), it worked wonders for me, so much so, that I bought another book of his "The Feeling Good Handbook", which built on what I had learnt from the first book.
They are accessibly written, very easy to read, with easy to grasp ideas and short sentences. I say that not to demean you but because I know when one is depressed one often has a short attention span (along with a tendency to self-destruct).
Good luck.
If how you behave/what you say winds someone in your life up, you may choose to modify that behaviour
of course you may, but this need not be your default stance to everyone! It depends if it's collateral behaviour or inherent personality, and vice versa, if something a friend does winds you up, it may be better to accept that's just who they are
Simon, ease off eh? I understand perfectly where you're coming from, but for people who don't think the same way, your remarks come across as insensitive and deliberately provocative and upsetting, whether you mean it that way or not.
What simon is saying, is that you can influence the way things effect you, you can come to understand yourself and then rather than denying or suppressing emotions which is very dangerous.
You can learn to redirect them and thus not have to carry a huge burden around.
He's not saying that people are not suffering, nor is he saying that people are this that and the next thing. He's simply putting across his experience and how he learnt to overcome it.
Simon, lets here some of your technique, I think you will find that it is very similar to the Alexander technique and Zen, although to be honest all techniques for conditioning the mind have a same common thread.
[b]karinofnine[/b] I'm so pleased to hear that 🙂
I prefer to research subjects for myself
Hehe.. well ideally me too. But I don't have dozens of lifetimes to devote to examining the causes of the myriad forms of depression. I for example can't develop drugs in my kitchen. Or do functional MRI scans.
I think Simon and BruceWee have some faith in experts, so it seems. Either pharmaceutical or psychological.
It's defintitely worth listening to experts. Don't be a slave to them, but they (being experts) usually have a lot of knowledge.
One of the greatest scientists ever put it nicely:
"If I have seen further than other men, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."