[Closed] Taking a 4 month old on a flight

You don't have the right to silence on a plane I'm afraid. So suck it up
Wrong, so wrong.

Not wrong. You don't have the RIGHT to silence.

I am obliged to take every precaution I possibly can to carry out my business without bothering anyone else. However that does not mean I have to make big sacrifices for a couple of hours of your convenience.

Taking a 4 month old on a flight

Phew thought that said 'Taking a 4 month old in a fight'

What's choas? 😉

Edit:

molgrips - Member

I am obliged to take every precaution I possibly can to carry out my business without bothering anyone else. However that does not mean I have to make big sacrifices for a couple of hours of your convenience.

That's it Moly, right there. That's the contempt that is. [i]'I can do whatever I please for up to 2 hours and stuff the lot of you'[/i].

Job and done.

By dismissing the 100 or so souls that have to tolerate whatever you child chooses to do, you are just showing them contempt.

Its not about dismissing or showing contempt, its about taking a balanced view and weighing up the impacts. Thankfully, most folk are reasonable, understand and are able to tolerate a bit of child noise.

geoffj - Member
Its not about dismissing or showing contempt, its about taking a balanced view and weighing up the impacts. Thankfully, most folk are reasonable, understand and are able to tolerate a bit of child noise.

Full circle. But you may not expect or demand it of them which is/was the crux of this discussion... You are relying on the good will of strangers to tolerate your personal peccadilloes. Is this reasonable when they have absolutely no choice in the matter (once airborne)?

I dont see not going abroad a 'sacrifice'. You made the choice not to go on a foreign holiday when you had a baby.

I understand there are circumstances that mean you do need to take your child on a plane. In my part to keep the balance, I choose to sit at the back of the plane (as they always board children to the front), and I wont bother you if you child screems the whole way.

However, if you made the choice to sit next to me with a screaming child, then I will make the choice to sit out the front of your house with my music playing full blast for the duration of a flight. Of course I could play it elsewhere, but you can also go on holiday via other modes of transport.

Full circle. But you may not expect or demand it of them which is/was the crux of this discussion... You are relying on the good will of strangers to tolerate your personal pecadiloes. Is this reasonable when they have absolutley no choice in the matter (once airborne)?

We expect and demand lots of things from lots of people day in and day out. They are the unwritten rules of life. It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect passengers to accept noise from small children on a publicly available air service.

Of course, the choice is always there - when you decide to take the flight yourself, you need to weigh up the chances of their being screaming children on it.

Choas is chaos in action is it?

boblo, 🙂 Not sure on the pictures, however send a bottle of bolly back to me in steerage and i'll see what i can do.

There's nothing so decisive as kids is there? Bottom line is, tolerance is what matters. Before father hood, i was firmly in the children shouldnt fly camp, but now....stuff that. Every decsion i make impacts someone at some level, some people may not even like the outcome and get quite upset about them.

Example, i ride to work on a busy road, a fair few drivers have expressed their annoyance at being stuck behind a cyclist? Should i not ride or should i "demand" a bit of tolerance?

ads-b: Wasn't aware that i had restrict my life just because i had a child. Thanks for that. BTW, you couldn't play music outside my house as loud as you like, theres a law against that i believe.

You made the choice not to go on a foreign holiday when you had a baby.

Really? Who told you that? Any other places you've decided to ban sections of the human race from?

DrJ, you are wasting your internet breath, the hard of thinking and logically challenged are out in force.

Now now, Toys. Don't be naughty, Moly is Mr. Insulty tonight. It's your turn tomorrow.

It's not an insult, it's a statement of fact, if the truth insults you then that is your problem.

LOL at what people think their rights are!! 🙄

YOU are choosing to take a form of public transport. Unless that form of transport specifically has a statement saying no children then you should expect to experience children.

If you don't want to experience it then you have some choices - 1st class, private aircraft, go by boat in private cabin. No one is MAKING you mix with other members of society.

What's next, expecting to drive on the road without seeing an idiot? Expecting to go to a football match and not hear someone swearing!!

🙄

If you werent aware, when you have a child it has a huge impact on your way of life in many ways. Loss of sleep, loss of flexibility.... loss of the ability to confine yourself in a metal box with complete strangers for hours on end. Its selfish on so many levels to take a child on a plane. I honestly would question your moral and parenting skills/responsibilities if you thought it was fair for the child or the general public.

Even if I sat outside your house with music at legal levels for two hours, I think you would be quite rightly pretty peeved with me, hence i wont do it. The same works in reverse.

p.s. until recently smoking in public places was legal. Now you try and tell me that was the wrong thing to do. Im sure most people were less bothered about the small risk of passive smoking than the stench and annoyance it caused.

I honestly would question your moral and parenting skills/responsibilities if you thought it was fair for the child or the general public

Probably the funniest thing I've heard this year so far. 😀

Probably the funniest thing I've heard this year so far.

Indeed!

the general public

I suspect you'll find that the majority of the general public understand and sympathise with parents who have children that are crying.

It tends to be the [i]lifestyle choicers[/i] who make the noise on this. Empty barrels and all that....

p.s. until recently smoking in public places was legal.

I think you'll find it still is

ads-b. I was deliberately not questioning parenting skills as that would probably end badly.... For me, expecting people to put up with whatever you throw at them is just selfish and conceited.

Your smoking example is a good one. Anyone recall the old anti smoking tale? The one about the the smoker stinking everyone out with the output of their activity and then the drinker asking if it was OK to pis$ all over people (specifically the smoker) with their output?

So ads-s, if my daughter was to sit queiltly on the plane, reading her books or playing with her teddies and not disturb anyone, is that selfish? Is that bad parenting? Presumably, if you opposed to the idea of children being confined inside a metal box with strangers, it is selfish to take them on a public train or public bus too?

Key word being public.......

Clong. Yer dint ask me but if she behaves (no screaming/vomit/poo) then that's fine 🙂 Slip her some of the Bolly and she might evn sleep a bit.

Wow, ads-b, now you're questioning the parenting skills of total strangers because we may choose to take a child on an aeroplane? Is it ok if I take my little girls on a train...that ok by you? How about a bus? Ok to walk them down the pavement in your general vicinity? Are you for real?

loss of the ability to confine yourself in a metal box with complete strangers for hours on end. Its selfish on so many levels to take a child on a plane.

Only if the child causes a nuisance. Or if you expect the child to cause a nuisance. Not all kids do. I've never been on a plane where there was a baby that cried persistently, despite there being usually two or three babies at least each time I fly, so it's hardly the norm.

Anyway. If you can't cope with members of the general public (that includes babies) then surely YOU should be the one refraining from sitting in a metal box with a load of us?

when you decide to take the flight yourself, you need to weigh up the chances of their being screaming children on it.

Yeah or just take some flippin earplugs.

That's it Moly, right there. That's the contempt that is. 'I can do whatever I please for up to 2 hours and stuff the lot of you'.

That's ridiculous. I go out of my way to be considerate all the time, far far more than most people do. I do not do whatever I please regardless of anyone else.

The point is that we ALL need to co-operate. The plane is not YOUR space, it is a public space. And babies cry sometimes. You need to be prepared to deal with it. There are lots of other annoyances when flying, aren't there?

By the way, my child has not yet screamed for an entire flight or even for more than a minute or two. When ever she looked like causing a fuss and bothering anyone, I took her out to the back of the plane away from anyone, or spent literally hours walking her up and down the plane or otherwise entertaining her SO SHE WOULDN'T ANNOY ANYONE. Damned inconsiderate git that I am.

Can’t you just take your fly away holidays once your children are up to the journey ?, whats so difficult about waiting a few years ?.

Actually, kids are a lot easier on planes when they're babies. Toddlers are a nightmare, and things only really get easier when they're about 4-5 years old.

As for whether or not people should take small children on holiday: absolutely. Even a 4mth old kid will enjoy having his or her parents to themselves, without washing up / work / whatever getting in the way. Toddlers love the beach. And a kid has as much right to use public transport as anyone else.

As for whether or not people should take small children on holiday: absolutely. Even a 4mth old kid will enjoy having his or her parents to themselves, without washing up / work / whatever getting in the way.

And you need to be in a different country to do this?

Deal, boblo, make sure its a good vintage though.

The smoking one isn't bad example in other ways. I cant stand smoking, hate it on every level, but before the ban i'd often go for a drink for freinds down the pub. Clothes, hair etc would stink, but i accepted that was what would happen if i wanted to go to the pub.

Can’t you just take your fly away holidays once your children are up to the journey ?, whats so difficult about waiting a few years ?.

I'm not sure if I would take a small child on a foreign holiday. I take my child abroad so that she can see and get to know the American half of her family. I considering this pretty important, and hence worth the trouble.

The majority of people on transatlantic flights appear to be doing the same thing.

Shoe on other foot...

Your kid is causing a racket- crying, screeeming etc... I say poiltely, 'can you move away and stand in the kitchen/toilet area for the entire of the journey?'. How do you take it?????

Shoe on other foot...

Your kid is causing a racket- crying, screeeming etc... I say poiltely, 'can you move away and stand in the kitchen/toilet area for the entire of the journey?'. How do you take it?????

I'd ask you to speak to one of the staff regarding your options

We fly our 6 month old, from Beijing to London.
BA gave us a bulk head seat, and a basenet (spelling??) and allowed us to check in on the 1st class counter.
We found the Basenet(?) not only to small, but also faced the wrong direction. When he woke up, he was facing something he was completely alien to.
A comfort toy helps. In the end, he slept in his mothers arms all the time, and actually, people nearby, especially those who have had children, try and play/keep happy the child.

You'll be fine, worst case, it's only x hours 😉

ads-b: Moot point, i'd already have moved as, like most parents and with their own children, i find my child's crying distressing and will do all i can calm her down.

By the way, you have yet to answer the question about taking children on other forms of transport.

And you need to be in a different country to do this?

Not at all, although as I mentioned many pages ago if I want my kids to see my elderly grandmother I don't have a great deal of choice. But my kids still have just as much of a right to go on holiday as you do, regardless of the means of transport.

Realistically there are very few parents who would fly more than a couple of hours with small children, unless (like Travis I imagine) it's the only way to see family. And most people will do their best to limiit the amount of annoyance their kids cause - whether it be on a flight, a bus, wherever.

contradicting ones self....

other people have feelings

Not at all, although as I mentioned many pages ago if I want my kids to see my elderly grandmother I don't have a great deal of choice. But my kids still have just as much of a right to go on holiday as you do, regardless of the means of transport.

Trebuchet? 😛

I'm going on holiday next week - if anyone's flying to the Dominican, I apologise in advance for my incessant cough during the 9.5 hour flight.

As long as you don't cry loudly no one will complain. 😉

children lovem but cant eat a whole one

I have flown a bit in my time not a huge amount though mainly short-medium but a few long haul as well.

Taking young kids <3 esp when more than one why? unless visiting family, when they get sick what a pain in the ass. My friend was in Egypt with his family (wife and 2 snappers) when his wife went down with food poisonning he had to stay an extra week (unpayed)and argue-arrange a new hotel and sort it out , the reps were okish as was the tour company but only because hes a determined bugger.

Mid-long

My mates wife has flown to HK with her boy since was about 9 months but she plans it

good airline
good flight times
takes food the boy likes
toys etc
takes his fav jimjams and blanket
emergency cowpol and other such stuff
check in early to get a window and middle seat

and strangely shes never had any probs

then others turn up with nothing an expect the airline to provide

oh

My bro has 3 snappers of various ages and 2 dogs and MIL who all go on hols together and the got a time shave on a canal boat and without exception they all love it and go as ofter as they can. I call it a floating caravan but I digress.

Anyway it will be all irrelevent in a few years as the majority will be no longer able to afford to fly

mogrim - Member

But my kids still have just as much of a right to go on holiday as you do, regardless of the means of transport.

Yawn... As much right to go but no more right to aggravate everybody else on the flight....

Yawn... As much right to go but no more right to aggravate everybody else on the flight....

Yawn indeed: as has been pointed out many times very few people set out with the intention of aggravating people on a flight, but children are children and it happens sometimes. Assuming the parents are doing their best to stop, most people make allowances for the fact they're small, some don't. I'd suggest that these people do their best to get over it: the airlines want our money more than they're worried about possible loss of custom to overly delicate childhaters.

Enough of this thread, it's getting boring and repetitive. If you don't wish to understand my position, don't. I certainly don't agree with yours 🙂

overly delicate childhaters

Nicely put mogrim

Can we then ban chair kickers, coughers, loved up couples, people who get up and down all the time, window openers and heavy drinkers from flights?

I'm quite looking forward to taking the new arrival when it comes to see the MIL in Thailand. I will especially enjoy it knowing that I could be sat beside someone who is going to get irritated at the slightest noise she makes.

Bit of a tangent - but I wonder if parenting has seen a change in standards over recent years. I say this as we had a conversation about this over Christmas. We were in a restaurant and the table next to us had kids. Between ordering and being served the kids ran riot around the restaurant (not a glorified pub or fast food joint; a proper restaurant) playing hide seek/ chase. At one point one of them (about 6 or 7) decided to try and hide under our table. I think I might actually have told him to f*** off. All the while the parents chatted oblivious. All very anecdotal but I seem to see more and more kids behaving in a way that I simply would not have got away with. Part of bringing up kids is educating them how to behave outside of the home. Not that relevant to the baby on a plane debate but maybe another indicator of how "modern" parents are increasingly less concerned about the impact their brood has on those around them.

They operate within the 'me, me, me' bubble. The walls are opaque and they cannot see out and observe the impact of their/their offsprings behaviour.

You were lucky they didn't turn on you and accuse you of being a See You Next Tuesday for daring to be so intolerant. Little Johnny is adorable after all.

Between ordering and being served the kids ran riot around the restaurant

Probably the parents had been one of those aeroplane things and seen that in other countries kids are not expected to be seen and not heard like constipated Brits are used to.

DrJ. Funny you should say that. Go to Europe (France/Italy say) and the kids join in the family meal and behave like humans. No txting, no sulky teenage antics at 5 years old etc. Just good old family life. It's a pleasure to be around.

OK DrJ - would YOU be prepared to play hide and seek around a restaurant? If not, why should a child think it's ok? If you tried to hide under my table I would have punched the crap out of you! There is a BIG difference between "being seen but not heard" and acting in manner that is appropriate to the environment - this was an "grown up" adult environment and children entering such should be taught by their parents to act accordingly. I spent lots of time in such places at a similar age acting normally and have very happy memories of them and certainly didn't feel oppressed.

Probably the parents had been one of those aeroplane things and seen that in other countries kids are not expected to be seen and not heard like constipated Brits are used to.

Thread's moved on, so I'm back.

In very child-friendly Spain kids are allowed to make a certain amount of noise, but wouldn't usually run around a restaurant - and certainly not start hiding under someone else's table.

If my kid wants to run around and play hide and seek in restaurant she gets proper told off. I would say she receives a right rollocking but that's not necessary because she pretty much behaves herself 🙂

I wouldn't say it's any worse now than it ever was. This is why people years ago imagined the class divisions. Perhaps in the 50s everyone was straining to put on a good show, but that wasn't healthy 🙂

If I was being bothered by kids like that I'd have a word with the parents.

I have a horrible feeling I might have started all this off (I misunderstood toys' original point - though he didn't really make it all that clear) - ironic really given in my first post I mentioned taking our 18mo to the Canaries!

Toddlers are a nightmare, and things only really get easier when they're about 4-5 years old.