even before I had kids I always found it quite entertaining watching stressy passengers getting more and more wound up by kids making noise. if one of them is dumb enough to make a comment about it out loud it often gets very entertaining from a spectators point of view.
Yes- my experience of this was about 20 years ago as a 20 ish single guy. V pretty single mum with baby who was wailing. Two middle aged mums who were fed up with their husbands talking and making eyes at the pretty single girl, verbally laid into her for having such an unruly child. In the end I stood in the aisle overlooking her seat chatting away to her and babe whilst these two harridans tried to butt in over my shoulder. Eventually the BA staff came and moved the tossers to different part of the plane. My "heroics" went unrewarded unfortunately.
The one time I flew with my 4 month old she didn't moan once, but we had knockers on tap..
Taking a young child on holiday has surely got to be a selfish act though, hasn't it? I mean, what does a 4month old get out of a holiday to Majorca, Morzine or Minnesota? Not a lot I imagine, except maybe some discomfort during the flight. Yes, I think I may be trolling now.
toys19 - Member<snip> but we had knockers on tap..
Blimey, BA [i]have[/i] improved their inflight catering 🙂
toys19 - Member
I don't recall anyone on here demanding tolerance.
mogrim - MemberBecause having children is a necessary part of maintaining a society, and it's therefore reasonable to demand a little toleration [b]BECAUSE HOLIDAYS ARE SO VITAL[/b]
There you go (I might have edited one of the quotes 🙂 ), HTH.
I don't berate.
I don't complain.
I don't have a problem with children on planes, though I'd rather not sit next to one when on long flights if it were particularly noisy/active .
I do take exception to being told I have to defer to the rights of parents who are propagating the continuation of the species as if it were some personal favour to me.
Fair enough and mogrim pointed it out above, missed that. Guess what, he's right. I don't give a damn if you don't like being told to be tolerant. Based on your responses you need to be more tolerant.
Aaah, so in your tolerant way, you're telling me to be tolerant?
That's the irony I find so, errr, ironic. Well done. Ta.
I do take exception to being told I have to defer to the rights of parents who are propagating the continuation of the species as if it were some personal favour to me.
Like to see who's going to pay your pension (or produce your food, wipe your a...) if people stop having kids!
I said a [i]little[/i] toleration - not complete toleration. It's a two-way thing, some of the people on this thread don't seem to understand that.
And you and your parenting ilk taking their holidays forms what part in the survival of the species, paying pensions etc?
That's the irony I find so, errr, ironic.
I know its funny isn't it!
And you and your parenting ilk taking holidays forms what part in the survival of the species, paying pensions etc?
What makes your "right" to go on holiday take precedence over mine?
Kids moan, its a fact of life, just because you get on a plane doesn't change that in anyway. Like I said the airline companies seem to think it's ok. Do you want to know why? Because families go on holiday, they spend money. In fact airlines are so into it they let infants on aeroplanes for free, how galling that must be for you child haters. That is irony.
As a westerner, having children is one of the worst things you can do for the planet in environmental terms. Probably.
I do take exception to being told I have to defer to the rights of parents who are propagating the continuation of the species as if it were some personal favour to me.
Really? That's unfortunate for you, because, at the end of the day, you do have to defer to other people's rights. That's what "rights" are.
In fact airlines are so into it they let infants on aeroplanes for free, how galling that must be for you child haters. That is irony.
You forgot the cheaper seats for older kids, and the early boarding.
OK, I'm trolling now too 🙂
Toys, Toys, Toys, <sigh>
The whole premise of this thread is that parents rights automatically trump everyone elses as they are altruistically looking after our future (ironically whilst killing the planet going on holiday). As you so eloquently stated, anyone who complains about this is a See You Next etc...
I don't want precedence over anyone else, equality would be nice though I'm not planning to scream my head off or smear my poo anywhere in the First Class cabin anytime soon.
DrJ - MemberReally? That's unfortunate for you, because, at the end of the day, you do have to defer to other people's rights. That's what "rights" are.
So where does deference end and subjugation begin?
So lets just check, you agree that anyone who complains to a parent, during a flight, about the kid crying or moaning is wrong?
So where does deference end and subjugation begin?
junction 14 of the m25?
Well... you justify the choice of taking young children on planes because the airlines allow it. Surely the airlines allow passenges to air their grievances with each other too?
The whole premise of this thread is that parents rights automatically trump everyone elses as they are altruistically looking after our future (ironically whilst killing the planet going on holiday). As you so eloquently stated, anyone who complains about this is a See You Next etc...
Actually, the whole premise of the thread was someone asking if flying with a 4mth old baby from the UK to Lanzarote was achievable. It degenerated from there when the rest of us decided to join in and start arguing. I can only surmise we are equally bored at work.
Well... you justify the choice of taking young children on planes because the airlines allow it. Surely the airlines allow passenges to air their grievances with each other too?
Of course, and complaining is perfectly justified if little "Tarquin" (nice straw child argument there) is sticking his "poo covered finger" in someone's ear and the parent in question isn't doing anything about it. Noone said it wasn't. Complaining about babies crying is a different matter, though, unless the parents of said child are obviously doing nothing about it.
toys19 - Member
So lets just check, you agree that anyone who complains to a parent, during a flight, about the kid crying or moaning is wrong?
Ironically (word of the day children), I don't care!
I wouldn't complain about a child unless they were behaving unreasonably directly with me and the parent should be doing something about it (e.g. throwing their food on me or hitting me - that sort of thing). I'd ask the parent (nicely) if they could have the child desist. Similarly, I wouldn't take to task someone else that did complain. That's up to them, they have rights....
There's usually not much a parent can do to quieten a child if they've a real paddy on though I think it's reasonable to question travel for the very young. Not neccesarily for the others passengers sake, more for the childs as I imagine it could be quite distressing/bewildering.
My position is that my (or other passengers) rights/comfort etc should not be automatically subjugated to parents, unruly passengers, fatties, smellies etc. We all have paid our money to enjoy the delights of modern air travel in comfort etc. No one has a 'right' to interfere with that.
Phew.
But complaining about babies crying is 'allowed', isn't it?
But complaining about babies crying is 'allowed', isn't it?
futile, but feel free
human society needs children to survive
Does it?I think nearly 7 bn of us eating ourselves out of planet and home is quite enough actually
If no-one had kids then human society wouldn't last long would it?
Plus, any one of those kids might be the one who figures out how to produce limitless free energy on earth or feed the world. Or write the novel that makes everyone stop and think, and start being nice to each other.
Anyway. The problem isn't with kids on planes it's with poorly behaved kids on planes or unhappy babies. Plenty of poorly behaved adults on planes too tbh.
We all have paid our money to enjoy the delights of modern air travel in comfort etc
No, you've paid for a seat. I don't think the terms and conditions of carriage say anything about comfort or isolation from any annoyance created by the other passengers.
But complaining about babies crying is 'allowed', isn't it?
Yes, likewise complaining about the weather, but suggesting it is someone's "fault" is (largely) silly.
DrJ - Member"I do take exception to being told I have to defer to the rights of parents who are propagating the continuation of the species as if it were some personal favour to me."
Really? That's unfortunate for you, because, at the end of the day, you do have to defer to other people's rights. That's what "rights" are.
actually you have the right to do things so long as it does not impinge or incionvenience anyone else - and you don't have the right to take you rkids on hoilday
Holidays are not a right - they are a privilege
Its far closer to the mark that I have the right to go about my lawful business without your brat screaming in my ear. Your brat does not have the right to scream in my ear
However - I shall just continue to wear my earplugs so I can ignore the disease infested, foul, biting, poomaking things ( or is that dogs? I do get confused) 🙂
futile
like arguing with new parents
Molgrips, You keep linking the survival of our species with the need to take an annual holiday. I can't see the link, perhaps I'm a bit dim.
Keep mis-reading this thread as "taking a 4 month old to a fight".
actually you have the right to do things so long as it does not impinge or incionvenience anyone else - and you don't have the right to take you rkids on hoildayHolidays are not a right - they are a privilege
Quite. You don't have a right to go on holiday, either.
Its far closer to the mark that I have the right to go about my lawful business without your brat screaming in my ear. Your brat does not have the right to scream in my ear
Don't know about that, kids aren't dogs. Kids cry, it happens. You go to a park on a sunny day and there will be kids playing, shouting, crying - I doubt very much that you have a right to expect silence there, either.
Holidays are not a right - they are a privilege
TJ - as a union spokesman 😉
I would have thought you'd subscribe to the position that holidays were hard fought for & won rights for the working man - just a thought 🙂
How 'bout this... We're all fantastically considerate people, we understand the impact of our (and those we are responsible for) actions on others and would consider teh impications of our choices.
Now, I'm a big sweaty fatty with a body odour and flatulence problem. I also have a nasty infection that is easily transferred. I fancy a weekend in Prague. What should I do?
Ok, lets clear this up once and for all...
Parents have the right to go on uneccesary holidays with their young children because, although they farted the screaming thing out in the first place, they don't want the inconvenience of having to change their lifestyle, and dont give a monkeys about upsetting others.
Passengers on planes with screaming children on have the right to complain about said children, even if it doesn't make a blind bit of difference and makes them a S.Y.N.T.
There, a synopsis everyone can be happy with, surely.... 😉
actually you have the right to do things so long as it does not impinge or incionvenience anyone else
Where did you read that? There was a van blocking the road making a right turn across traffic this morning. Boy, was I inconvenienced?! Maybe that guy did not know about my inalienable right to drive to work on empty roads.
- and you don't have the right to take your kids on holiday
I think you'll find you're wrong. Not just a right but more or less an obligation!
Holidays are not a right - they are a privilege
Freedom of movement is as close to a right as you get in a modern affluent society.
Its far closer to the mark that I have the right to go about my lawful business without your brat screaming in my ear. Your brat does not have the right to scream in my ear.
I think it does. And I think it has the right to not be insulted by you.
This just gets better.
😆
Now, I'm a big sweaty fatty with a body odour and flatulence problem. I also have a nasty infection that is easily transferred. I fancy a weekend in Prague. What should I do?
Do you even consider NOT going? The infection thing should get you in trouble, but for the rest, you would just be one more traveller.
If no-one had kids then human society wouldn't last long would it?
Ironically, it may last a little longer than if the population reaches 14 bn as projected by the UN. We can't feed the 6.5 bn already here.
Plus, any one of those kids might be the one who figures out how to produce limitless free energy on earth or feed the world.
We had the world feeding with the green revolution - simply not much more can be grown. Oh, and didn't you listen in your first ever high school science lesson: energy cannot be created. Again, the closest we've come to that is nuclear, and we all know how popular that is...
GlitterGary - Member
This just gets better.
Like kids, do you? 😀
No.
Ironically, it may last a little longer than if the population reaches 14 bn as projected by the UN. We can't feed the 6.5 bn already here.
The human race won't end if the population grows to unsustainable levels
People will just starve to death until it's sustainable again
If people stop breeding, it will definitely end wont it?
DrJ - actully that is the basis of rights 🙂 - you right to do as you want so long as it does not inconvenience others.
Very few rights trump that - and allowing your brat to scream in my ear is not one of them.
So which is worse - dogs or brats?
Very few rights trump that - and allowing your brat to scream in my ear is not one of them.
It's not so much "allowing" them to scream, it's more that (with babies) you can't always stop them. And if you're all stuck in an enclosed space there's not a lot you can do about it other than moan.
So which is worse - dogs or brats?
Yorkshire terriers, a terrifying combination of the two. Especially the silky haired ones with little bows.
mogrim - MemberIt's not so much "allowing" them to scream, it's more that (with babies) you can't always stop them. And if you're all stuck in an enclosed space there's not a lot you can do about it other than moan.
Ahh, but this is about the choices made. You (not [i]you[/i] specifically, more those hypothetical pesky doting parents) have chosen to take junior in to that environment in the full knowledge that it may impact others. You've decided to jgnore the impact of your choices to achieve the greater good of your essential holiday and furthering the human race/paying my pension/cultivating future world leaders.
By making those choices with known (or very likely) impacts, you're thumbing your nose at the rest of us whilst demanding our tolerance and understanding in doing so.
Bit unreasonable isn't it?
We took a 7 month old to Lanzarote and only booked two seats. Both ways we got their early and flattered the check in staff to get a row of three seats. How good they resist when they saw her lovely face. Put the child in the middle, stay relaxed and hopefully they will sleep most of the way. Our daughter loved it.
I would probably book earlier and pay for the extra seat but we booked only a week in adavnce on that trip.
The human race won't end if the population grows to unsustainable levels. People will just starve to death until it's sustainable again
Depends just how serious the fighting gets over the last bits of food/water/oil
