[Closed] Surrogate parents - Round 2

l watched an episode of "worlds strictest parents" where a couple of kids from england were sent over to america to live with a gay couple who had adopted/fostered several kids.

They were incredible parents, was close to shedding a tear a couple of times during the show at the huge amount of effort, care and compassion they put into their parenting. anyone who might think that a homosexual couple couldn't be good parents could do worse than watching a normally rubbish bit of bbc3 style television.

No it's not just you nickf, but if you're really liberal minded, you'll also have to accept that people feeling uncomfortable about gay adoption is a valid belief. Otherwise, you'll be no better than religious right saying that anything other than a married man and women bringing up a child is wrong.
Also it needs to be taken into consideration that Elton is by the general public considered a bit of a, for want of a better word, 'nutter'. His gayness is largely immaterial to this. Had a say Amy Winehouse and Pete Doherty proudly announced that they were having a surrogate child, I suspect you'd have a similar length thread to the Elton one.

I don't think it's necessarily homophobic to disagree with same-sex parenting

Ian, you're entirely correct, and people have every right to diagree.

My point is that people should be honest. If they think that gay men shouldn't be parents, fair enough. Where things fall down is where they hide behind the view that it's to do with age, or the lifestyle one of these parents had two decades ago.

In either case why didn't they just adopt an existing child rather than "have another born". Plenty of children in need of a good home already waiting for adoption.

Are you wanting to be offended, nick?

Of course some people kicked up a fuss about EJ's surrogate child because of latent homophobia. Of course some other people also genuinely (and though I disagree with it, it's not inherently homophobic) believe that kids are better brought up with both male and female parents.

IMO in the real world, it's far more complex than reducing parenting to just the sex/sexuality of the parents.

This was not, said the anti-brigade, anything to do with his sexuality. It was due to Elton's past....or his age...but mostly people seemed to disapprove of the whle concept of surrogacy.

But it definitely was nothing to do with him being gay. Oh no, absolutely not. No homophobia here, no sirree.

So where's the negativity, the moral opprobrium in this instance? Where's the ire being directed at Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban, two people who could physically have a child naturally, just couldn't be bothered to?

Your rant fails on multiple levels. Firstly the issue you claim people were hiding behind before (excessive age) doesn't actually apply to Kidman and Urban who are 20 years younger than him, hence why nobody is making the same accusations. It also seems strange that you're bringing them up when you clearly know them well enough personally to know that she wouldn't have any problems with having a child if she chose to.

1/10 (I'm being generous).

Who says they could have kids naturally ? Given how concentration camp thin Nicole Kidman got for a while there I would be surpised if she can do anything naturally.

Who says they could have kids naturally ? Given how concentration camp thin Nicole Kidman got for a while there I would be surpised if she can do anything naturally.

Er, because they have a naturally born kid of their own?

Er, because they have a naturally born kid of their own?

That was nearly 3 years ago, and Nicole Kidman is pushing her mid-40s. Some women can keep popping them out at that age, some can't. Plus her natural born kid might have been lucky - she didn't have any kids with Tom Cruise other than the ones they adopted, so she might find it hard to carry a kid to term.

As with Elton John, good luck to them! Like Nickf I find it quite funny the lack of response compared to the Elton John one, given most people were objecting on the grounds of 'buying' a child, or on Elton's past issues. Urban has known addiction issues, and Nicole's obviously bonkers as she spent years married to the demented scientology midget.

I find it quite funny the lack of response compared to the Elton John one

Possibly because everyone knows who Elton John is.
I, for one, would have to google Nicole Kidman. I take it, by the mention of her being thin, she is an actress or singer.

I, for one, would have to google Nicole Kidman. I take it, by the mention of her being thin, she is an actress or singer.

honestly?

I, for one, would have to google Nicole Kidman

Honestly?

EDIT: JINX! 😀

Yes, I haven't got a TV and generally listen to "oldies" radio.
I recognise the name, I've probably seen it as I flick past the celebrity gossip pages in the free Metro paper.
I honestly couldn't name any of her films or songs.

Do you ever read newspapers?

Do you live in a developed country?

I read the Metro, because we get it free at work.
I'm aware that it's got celebrity gossip pages, I just don't read them.

Elton John: 63, well publicised addictions to cocaine and alcohol, known wearer of terrible wigs, prominent homosexual.

Nicole Kidman: 43, no known drug problems, has her own hair, heterosexual.

Why does criticising Elton's adoption make me a homophobe (latent or otherwise), rather than drugist, ageist or wiggist?

I couldn't give a fig about his sexuality and I don't have a problem with same sex parenting, but I do think 63 is pretty old to be taking on a baby. I'm 35 and I'm chuffing knackered!

Sadly its not just Str8 men who want babies, a lot of gay men actually live a lie because they feel they must live a stra8 life, getting married and haveing children of their own, sadly when the children are grown up, the man usually finds its the time to anounce their sexuality this usually comes as a shock to the kids and sometimes the wife.

Its so much easier and partially accepted for two gay men to now adopt a child as their own, and avoid all the heartache of a sham relationship, just so they fit in with societies feelings, some men want to have their own family without a girlfreind/wife.

I, for one, would have to google Nicole Kidman

😯

She was Judy in "BMX Bandits". Surely you've seen it???

I think she may have done some other stuff since.

some men want to have their own family without a girlfreind/wife.

do i need to be gay to feel this way? mrsconsequence is way to crazy to inflict on children... 😆

Elton John: 63, well publicised addictions to cocaine and alcohol, known wearer of terrible wigs, prominent homosexual.

Nicole Kidman: 43, no known drug problems, has her own hair, heterosexual.

Or to turn that around:

David Furnish, 48, no known drug problems, has his own hair, homosexual

Keith Urban, 43, well publicised addictions to cocaine and alcohol, has own hair, heterosexual.

If you're druggist, you'd also have to object to Kidman and Urban's surrogacy. I'll give you ageism and wiggism though!

As I'm absolutely certain righttimerightplace won't say this time around: Is it just me?

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sir-elton-john-receives-the-greatest-gift-of-all

As one of the main objexctors on that theread to Elton to claim thios is homophobia is an easy thing to say as he is actually gay. As I also said you can have me for racism as I dont think Michael Jackson should have been allowed either 🙄

Where things fall down is where they hide behind the view that it's to do with age, or the lifestyle one of these parents had two decades ago

But if these are the real reason for objecting what more can I/we do ? You will just see homophobia wont you - you are seeing this based on the evidence that it is not mentioned so how can I convince you otherwise?
FWIW both my children have gay god parents - one has a gay man and one a gay woman Do I win a prize yet? neither of these [couples] thought Elton was a suitable parent eother. Both have children by complicated non traditional means Do you want to moan at them as well for homophobia?
Here is another good thread of me hiding behind secret homophobia by attacking the poster for the use of a derogatory term for a homosexual
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-irony-of-the-woofterball-world-cup
The problem is as your quote above shows if I object you will just assume it is because he is gay and when I explain the “real reason” you think I am just hiding behind it. You need to look at your own perceptions here as you are seeing something that is not there – I don’t doubt that some [ many?]people who object are homophobic but to think all are is a fail on your part and shows your bigotry/stereotyping not mine.

Elton could not pass adoption tests for a reason and that was not down to his sexuality. The reasons are discussed on that thread and I see no point rehashing them here
I know nothing of Kidman or her partner so can offer no opinion on there suitability but they are not suitable just because they are heterosexual if that helps.

Fair enough, I have no real idea who Keith Urban is, other than Mr Kidman.

Is Keith Urban a rap star? Or a DJ?

He's a country singer iirc