[Closed] Suicide on the increase and suicide amongst the young.

Quite a few young lads have killed them selves around here recently, on a few hundred yards away, small shrine for him, and tonight another lad a rugby player was found dead in Manchester.

So very sad for all concerned.

Males do lock their emotions in at a certain age, its not seen as manly in certain sectors of the comunity to express your emotions, and lack of decent work, relationship issues etc dont help in the mix.

Our experience, having had two attempts by one of my close family in the last 6 years, is it has been due to intolerable mental pressure. Death is seen as the only logical way for this person to still the internal noise and despair. On both occasions the person attempting suicide has called for help once the blood has started to flow.
I desperately hope that a third attempt will not be made!

I don't know the stat,and haven't googled it (yet) but I'm sure I saw something recently that suggested that suicide was the single highest cause of death for young males between something like 20 and 35. I'll check that but it struck me as a very sobering thought, not least because i've been up a tree with a rope before, and decided life wasn't quite that shit.

I shall be at a funeral on Friday, friend hung himself. A lot of questions but very few answers I'm afraid.

(PS in his 40s btw)

It's a sign of the times and not going to get better any time soon unfortunately.

Checked

3rd rank cause in the us among 15-24 year old, and 2nd for 25-34 year olds. And males are 4x more likely. And in the young, only around 0.5 - 1% success rate is a very sobering thought. So to answer the op, it's a lot more common than you'd think. I can't answer why though - maybe the pressures of growing up - jobs,money, relationships, etc., - without the world weariness that tells you that life is sometimes shit, but it usually passes.

My sympathies.

I drove past a suicidee (woman in early 40s) on M62, day before Xmas eve between J28 and 27. Must have been minutes after she had jumped from the bridge as no emergency services there. I remember the look on her face. So sad. 🙁

I hope this thread stays sensible, as this is a subject that I think needs talking about more widely and openly than it ever seems to.

A lad from work killed himself a few years ago and afterwards it was like he never existed. In fact people seemed somehow ashamed to acknowledge his existence. If ever his name was mentioned it would stop the room dead and you'd hear a pin drop. I've never known people act like it in any other situation. Very strange.

A massive issue we don't seem very good at dealing with.

A lad from work killed himself a few years ago and afterwards it was like he never existed. In fact people seemed somehow ashamed to acknowledge his existence. If ever his name was mentioned it would stop the room dead and you'd hear a pin drop. I've never known people act like it in any other situation. Very strange.

Just perhaps his fellow workmates didnt see the warning signs, or mistakenly took banter and practical jokes to a level he couldnt cope with, so then its easier to blank his name out, just incase something comes out,that wasnt common knowledge.

There seem more pressures on young lads now, money ,jobs,relationships,freinds or lack of them, able to listen and ofer help and advice, or just to listen.

It doesn't get discussed, there's a reluctance to even talk about it, so there aint much help about to folk contemplating it either, have the young even heard of the Samaritans? Then next offer is 'mental health counselling' which is another pariah subject. Potential suicides are not necessarily mentally ill they're desperate for any number of issues.

I hadn't realised however just how many youngsters are affected, it almost never occurred in my youth, can only think of one guy I know/knew, a fellow journalist, but he always was a tad on the edge of reason, wanted to know the answer, the one religion could never really give.

Its a very emotive subject obviously - but its also part of something bigger. Suicide is one of the ways a bunch of factors can reveal themselves and if you look at why young people, or particularly young men are committing suicide you have to consider what other people are doing in the same circumstances.

Freakenomics did quite a good programme about it its worth searching through their podcasts to find it. In the US you get an interesting contrast - there white men commit suicide (but not so typically young men as you get in the uk), black men get murdered. But arguably putting yourself in harms way in order to get murdered is just as suicidal. So you need to look at a much wider picture as unhappiness expresses itself in many and varied ways - suicide, murder, criminality, victimhood, addiction, alcoholism, carelessness, recklessness. They are all part of a large cloud of outcomes for a large cloud of conditions. And that cloud is larger than the circumstances of the victims and all our actions contribute to it.

This is definitely something that needs talked about more openly.

It's directly affected my immediate family twice - one was caught and had a happy outcome. IME once you acknowledge it, then others are far more open about their own friends and family.

I'm surprised by the assertion that it's increasing amongst the young though? With one major caveat, the stats are hugely influenced by region. When I was growing up (in ROI) it seemed common in teenagers, now in Scotland and it seems more common in 40-ish but both rates are decreasing as far as I'm aware.

I just googled this, and initially it might appear pretty grim reading, but does have some positive points and a plan: and whatever steps are being taken, the rates overall are on their way down.

And lastly, noone should ever feel that there is only one option, there is always at least one more and lots of people you haven't met yet to help you realise what those options are.

It's hard to talk to people about issues you may have, without people judging you and then putting you down because of them. Also there is a fear that what you perceive as a problem will be laughed at and deemed insignificant.

I've felt pretty down about a few things; what has helped me has been volunteer work with singletraction and the Middleton railway, since it gave me a sense of achievement and purpose.. But that's me and I wasn't feeling suicidal just a bit down. I wouldn't imagine it's easy to pull yourself out from feeling suicidal, IMHO prevention is better than the cure; what is making people feel this way in the first place needs looking into really.

My brother-in-law hung himself two years ago shortly after my sister dumped him for another man. There were many unanswered questions, not to mention feelings of guilt.

My soon to be ex-wife counselled him the day before he died and I know this affected her greatly, because she had been convinced she was so good at helping people in this way - she did this a great deal in her job. She would never admit her failure, nor did I ever suggest/imply failure, but she felt great guilt and this was as a whole load of ugly rifts opened up within my side of the family. My wife, with her well intentioned counselling hat on, became entangled..

I tried not to get caught up in it as was battling with a very difficult work situation after a lengthy spell without work. I was just getting on with it and not trying to repeatedly rake over all the unanswerable questions.

It was inevitable that I'd cop a load of flack and got accused of all sorts, without any justification or good reason. I have a criminal psychologist friend who explained what was probably going on my wife's head. Basically, the behaviour of my wife was an attempt at blame/guilt transference. Too much analytical jargon for the likes of me!!

My marriage was not good after three previous deaths between our respective families and suffice it to say, the marriage has now ended and I'll soon be out on my ear.

I believe suicide rates in men are down to public attitudes towards what is acceptable behaviour for specific genders. Eg. A woman can wear her heart on her sleeve, she can scream, cry, discuss her feelings at length etc etc. She can do all of this with no,repercussion because she is viewed as "the weaker sex" and it is expected. So its green lights all round for them and everyone will make allowances/be sympathetic.

If a man behaves like this, he'll be berated as being weak. His partner will have no patience and will swiftly end up castigating him, often mercilessly humiliating him in front of friends and family. We are strong of course, so therefore it is ok to lay in to us, we can take it (to a point, but we do actually have feelings). A man expressing his feelings and letting it all out is NOT acceptable, so we most of us shut up and put up, even when our ears are routinely bent. We manage our stresses by not talking about them and pretending they don't exist. We busy ourselves with other things.

What sends me nuts is when women sneer at us, saying how we aren't in touch with our emotions, how dysfunctional we men are. It's one rule for them, and one rule for us. They are totally unsympathetic, but virtually demand sympathy when the boot is on the other foot. A rather gaping lack of empathy on the part of women. Herein lies the problem, if you want my humble opinion!

This is fun! 😆

This is a good topic to discuss..

"Mental health counselling" I've personally been through. My counsellor kicked me out for being unable too discuss things immediately and openly..

Since then I went too the doctors, got a referal. Another referal and then nothing since. I've been chasing it up for the last 12 months. My last appointment was 12/11 and they said they would be referring me for some further testing. Nothing since..

I would also like to say that in my own experience, Samaratans and the Salvation army are very eager too get your money and then ditch you when you actually need the help.

Spongebob - well in retrospect if you dont laugh then you cry. I choose the former, even if inappropriate at times.

gmex: I'm confused and a little concerned. The Sams dont take money (my sister volunteers for them) and if you need any help thats the A-1 port of call. And there are hundreds and thousands out there that help.

Wow Spongebob, you must have one hell of a disfunctional relationship with women. Can't say I've ever had such experience, I mean I know there's a general assumption that blokes just get on with stuff but if I was ever to admit it I can't think of a single female in my life who wouldn't listen and help. I wish you more luck in future!

As for suicide in general - I have no experience. I can't help but think that if it happened in my work it would probably be "dropped" from conversation pretty quick though, most people get over things by dealing with them initially and then shelving them - can't imagine why you'd want to dwell on the subject.

Wow Spongebob, you must have one hell of a disfunctional relationship with women.

No, just the one very sanctimonious conceited one I was unfortunate enough to have married! 😉

A new woman has helped me immensely in realising that my ex was more the exception than the rule (although the battle-scars remind me to be cautious).

Well that's positive news anyway!

Hi Coffeeking. Your attitude is pretty typical, sadly.

If thousands of teens got cancer and died lots of folk would go out and shout and shake a bucket.

Realistically if a teen gets depression or any other mental illness, everyone seems to "shelve it".

Why dwell on it? Because when it hits close to home - in reality & retropect : uncles, brothers, neighbours, friends can all notice warning signs and act on them. Or just shelve it.

[IMG] [/IMG]
My good mate at work, Dunky. Rip mate. Hope they have a pub wherever you are..
Deal with this every day at work, easier to stay detached when its someone you don't really know. Spoke to him a coupla days before he did it, he was expected back at his work the week afterwards and although reluctant, seemed ok- will never be sure if that's what tipped him over the edge.

What sends me nuts is when women sneer at us, saying how we aren't in touch with our emotions, how dysfunctional we men are. It's one rule for them, and one rule for us. They are totally unsympathetic, but virtually demand sympathy when the boot is on the other foot. A rather gaping lack of empathy on the part of women. Herein lies the problem, if you want my humble opinion!

Don't stick us all in the same boat-not all women are the same, just like not all men are the same.

Someone who's husband was a psychiatrist specialising in suicide told me once that death rates are always very high amongst young males, a combination of changing/raging chemicals/hormones etc and the fact that the front cortal something or other in the brain which controls the ability to make judgments doesn't fully develop until late 20s. Combine that with mental health in general still being quite taboo and it all ends up too much for some people.

I think the situation for young people can be quite grim, few decent jobs, expensive to get into education, thousands are NEETs.

Some people have fairly grims lives as well....fancy working 50 hours per week in a chicken processing factory for min wage?? I'm suprised more people don't top themselves.

There will be people reading this thread hesitating to post due to embarrassment(?) or even worry that they'll be seen as attention-whores (by some). If there is anyone reading this thread and needs to talk. Please do, to me or anyone above. I'm still repairing myself two years on from when my Dad suddenly passed away. Not the standard love-Dad stuff. The awful side of humans. Talk. I or anyone else may not have the answers but getting it out/off your chest may help. markhoracekuk at yahoo dot com

Good stuff Hora. Fair play to you, same goes for me.

It is a sad fact about women, having equalised their relationship with men, they do expect some of the former attributes men used to possess. They still seek and expect albeit in some cases subliminally, power, strength and physical support, as indeed evolution provided, they of course deny it, but then half the time they really do not know their own minds or what makes themselves tick so are subsequently extremely unreliable in times of stress for the sort of support a guy might find useful if at a terminal edge.

Very profound all that and no answers to be found there as to why it appears a lot more men are cashing in their chips, I guess we all think about it as a way out at times and in truth it can appear to solve a lot of problems like just running away.

Like a lot of folks who chase physical adrenaline filled highs, I guess I also get equal black lows in the same measure, but living the kind of lifestyle I've managed to create for myself, I've always felt there's always one more ride to live for, so when some young guy living a similar life still goes and tops himself it is an especial shock.

It happened once before, a young waverider guy called Angus Chater some windsurfers here might remember him, he experienced a three or four wave hold down and drowned. He then experienced the whole light at the end of the tunnel euphoria which comes in death and death recovery situations, as he was brought round after six or seven minutes gone. So the next hurdle life presented him and I believe that was also female created he just simply went back to where he knew everything felt so much better, that could be argued as understandable.

But when someone so young at 20-22 with none of lifes real experiences and everything still to live for gives up and chucks in the towel, that is very difficult to understand and leads to the questions about the pressures, morals, and pastoral care that is or is not available to the young today.

societal pressures are behind a lot of problems, suicide rates drop markedly during war -- the figures for Northern Ireland show this very clearly, not saying lets have a war,but communal focus gives folk bearings/status/interdependency--we are social creatures of the extreme--remove some or all the things that we need and it can have devastating consequences for individuals and their kith and kin.

Spoke to him a coupla days before he did it

Only when you get directly affected by suicide do you find out and realise how many people you know that have also been directly affected by suicides.

It's very easy to make a few bad choices that have a massively negative impact on your life. In turn this can affect everything and make it feel like there's not much worth carrying on for. A massive sense of loneliness, stress from money/relationship issues and just generally a bleak outlook means that you always feel like just giving up on everything.

I've had pretty depressing thoughts about it since I was about 18, two failed attempts have left me with certain physical issues that have merely compounded the matter. Of course when you fail you then get the feeling that you can't even do that right.

When I've spoken to people about it (which is rare, I normally keep the thoughts to myself) they've always fed me the lines 'but think what it'll do to your family and friends' and 'it's the most selfish thing someone can do'. Both of these are about the worst thing you can say to someone contemplating it and also shows a total lack of understanding. You're at a point where you just don't care about anything any more, the day to day misery grinding you down bit by bit. Other peoples feelings are the last thing on your mind.

The problem is that once you consider it an option, its always an option. Like I said, I've had these feelings and thoughts since my late teens and it always feels like I can do it. There probably isn't a day that passes when I don't think about it. I've bought all the stuff and it's ready to go, it's not even a morbid feeling, just an acceptance of what will inevitably happen.

The one thing that's stopped me is the thought of just getting on my bike and riding away from it all. In normal circumstances just running away isn't really an answer, but when it comes down to that, or 'buying the farm' then again it's nice to have that option. Bike is in the garage with the panniers loaded. When it gets that bad again then I'll start pedalling and if I get to where I'm going and it's still as bad then at least I've tried.

Jesus flange..

Change your life, there are lots of options, **** off overseas, go to Africa/India/Insert other appropriate region where you could help and also make a difference. Take up another activity, buy a kayak, go SUPing, take to the mountains and work as a barman, join the army, become crew on a yacht delivery team, lots of things life could offer a young person.

No money? Rob a bloody bank, ffs even ending up in jail must be better than ending it all.. Isn't it?

Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick here, life is for living or we wouldn't be here in the first place..

I work in this field with young people and i would agree that there is an increase in mental health issues.
There is support out there and can be accessed via GP's or in crisis A & E. GP surgerys also have an out of hours number. There are also a variety of drop in centres that offer support depending on your area.
The service provided is confidential and most importantly, IT'S GOOD TO TALK.

did suicide rates drop during the war, or did more men put themselves in positions where they might be killed instead of having to kill themselves?

as hinted at above, certain demographics will put themselves in dangerous positions on purpose... a war is a good way to do this. i've known people eat and smoke on purpose in an effort to kill themselves slowly so people wouldn't think they committed suicide (shame) in fact a guy less than 20 meters from me upped his cigarettes to over 25grams of tobacco a day in an effort to get lung cancer.

No money? Rob a bloody bank, ffs even ending up in jail must be better than ending it all.. Isn't it?

Depends on your outlook on life I suppose. I should probably explain that I'm outside the age range mentioned above and the issues I have don't really stem from money related problems. Whilst I'm sure that this issue does affect young lads in their twenties that fit a certain demographic, it also affects other people that don't fit in with the statistics above.

I can't really attribute one defining factor that causes how I feel, just a multitude of things that gradually build up over time. Still, it can't have got that bad as I'm still here. I just don't think you can look at something and say 'x' is the cause, we need to make sure we provide such and such a service. Everyone does it for a different reason, for some it might be that they don't conform to a certain stereotype or 'fit in', for others it might be relationship related, for another group maybe money/work. And for some its just because..

I think there's a difference between trends and actual facts. Last time I spoke to someone about it I was the 'ideal' age to be having these thoughts. Now it seems like that has shifted to a younger generation.

I'm not sure there really is a solution to 'lowering the number' of suicides. I think it's maybe the one time where you can look at finding a solution rather than fixing a cause. Two GP's I've seen have been less than sympathetic to the point where I've walked out the practise feeling worse than when I went it. There seems to be a big push towards filling people with anti-depressants rather than actually trying to help them. But at the end of the day if someone really feels like that then (from my experience) there doesn't seem to be much you can do.

personally i dont think its possible to accurately reflect the true suicide rates of men, they tend to chose much more violent methods than women and as a result i think its easy to attribute the cause of death to the method (motorbike "accident" for example) as opposed to suicide.

EDIT - i've linked to these guys a few times before on this forum, worth doing it again if you're reading this thread and not feeling particularly great at the moment

http://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/

On our wednesday night ride 2 weeks ago, I spotted a guy in a tree in the bush. Only been there a couple of hours. 1 guy with us is a cop & phoned it in, so the ambo wasn't far away.

As well as young men, there has been a massive rise in suicides of males in the 45-59 age group. The reason for this seems to be that if they lose their jobs, then they are potentially looking at never working again. On the scrap heap at 50.

Having experienced the resulting depression that goes with unemployment myself, not long back, I can absolutely empathise with a general sense of hopelessness that could all-too-easily lead to suicide

But why is it more hopeless now than it was say in the sixties, seventies and eighties?

What about the depression of the late twenties and early thirties, anyone know what the suicide rate was then?

But why is it more hopeless now than it was say in the sixties, seventies and eighties?

Because these two clowns are the ones who are charged with the task of making it better

[img] http://i1.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article1475594.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/George+Osborne+and+David+Cameron [/img]

Feeling confident? Seeing that light at the end of that tunnel yet? Think they even care? Triple dip anyone?

Oh... and just for balance, the only available alternative is this...

[img] [/img]

We really are ****ed!!!!

It's a very complex issue, as said above i don't think there's a single reason (or even two, to keep Binners happy) why rates are so high in that age group.

From my experience - when i came closest was probably 20-odd years ago, so right in that demographic. I wasn't enjoying life, yet I had a job, good prospects, hobbies, but ultimately no commitments and that left me kind of empty. Sure, i enjoyed the good times when they came but there were as many bad / lonely times and i was permanently worried about when the next down was coming rather than enjoying the ups.

Move on to now. I still often think about it, to the extent of having planned it (the how, and the where / when to avoid being discovered by anyone close to me). My life in many ways is far worse than it was before - I have stresses and responsibilities far more real than back then, but with those responsibilities I also love and am loved deeply by my family - but in turn caring and providing for them creates many of the responsibilities and stress that I'm under. I just think now that I'm less impetuous than i was 20 years ago, maybe my brain is more developed or whatever was said above, so i can logically weigh up the implications of what i might do on others, and that's enough to stop me. But, i have death in service benefits / life insurances that would mean the family have all material needs covered if something happened to me, so theoretically they don't need me other than for the companionship side of life. So i guess companionship - given and received - is ultimately the reason why i don't just kick the chair away.

Yet here's the odd thing (and this is hard to say). If, God forbid, something happened to my family, "I'd have nothing to live for". Yet at the same time, it would give me the option to opt out of this lifestyle without worrying about mortgages / earning decent wages / worrying about where the money's coming from for the next house outlay, etc. i [u]could[/u] crew a yacht or work in a bar and just get by. Would i be better off / happier? Or just lonely again?

Well the logic that follows that surely, better to end their lives than your own?

Suicide by Political assassination and subsequent popular adulation..

edit this was meant to follow the call me dave and red ed post..

My own personal experience is that when I was eleven, I hung myself with my school tie whilst alone in the house.

The reason for this was that my life was made a misery by a stupid father and a vindictive stepmother who had both, between them, forced my elder sister out of the house three years earlier before proceeding with my own mental torture (mother died when I was four years old).

So - dysfunctional family life is often the reason. I guess the financial pressures of the day can produce very difficult internal dynamics, for families struggling to cope...

The only reason I survived, by the way, is that the tie was made of two pieces of material stitched together, and it broke. Then when I was nineteen, I left home to stand on my own two feet rather than put up with it anymore. So now more than just one other person knows about it and as I survived, I can spend time on here as the token argumentative old git.

A friend is a psychotherapist and we were talking about this only last week. Usually, January is full of folk wanting to quit smoking or drinking & those looking to lose weight but over the past two or three years this has changed completely with a majority of his patients being 'treated' for depression or anxiety.

It seems the pressures of modern life are starting to impact on society and these have also changed dramatically. Many things (nice car, designer gear, big telly, iEverything etc) have become "expected" rather than "aspirational" as they were in the 60s-90s and this, linked with the reducing opportunities in the workplace, is the root of a majority of the cases he sees.

I am close to several people in their 40s & 50s who are suffering these issues at the moment, the worst being a former colleague who left work one night & never made it home - complete shock to everyone. That said, I've found recently that there have been a sufficiently high number of cases amongst the younger generation that the local media/press no longer treat it as front page news but you find it tucked away somewhere or hear about it whilst out & about. A few months back, we were out on the trails & were stopped by an older lady who was looking for the place where her grandson had hung himself. Not only were we unable to help her but it took a whole lot of searching later to find that it had even happened.

I can't contribute much to this other than to say that I knew two people that comited suicide in the past couple of years.
My Uncle was the typical East End boy done good. Built up a good business, made friends with people with money. From the outside he was a success. Sadly his business had failed and he had kept it from everyone. Before anyone found out, he politely left early from his Sunday meal and hung himself.
The other chap had it all, business, houses, nice cars, but he also had deep personal issues and it was these that made him take his life.

I've always wondered what makes one man fight back and another take his life, it's not weakness.

It goes without saying that suicide is linked to some form of depression. Depression can manifest itself in so many ways that on an almost weekly basis I find myself dealing with an area of depression I haven't come across before.

One thing that is true of ALL depression is that it lessens the individuals coping mechanisms. Often the depression sufferer doesn't realise that they have an inability to cope and naturally assumes their depression just makes them feel low, worthless, lacking in self esteem etc. It is the single defining factor in depression that the ability to cope with seemingly trivial matters becomes more and more difficult. Eventually it is this element of depression that becomes all conquering and it can and does lead to an individual absolutely believing that there is no solution, that the problems they face cannot be beaten or overcome. Combine that with the more commonly discussed symptoms of depression and you ultimately end up with someone who cannot face life. Life itself becomes the problem so for some the solution is to remove the problem.

When I am working with someone who is at the point where suicide is truly the solution for them then it is an incredibly difficult battle. I can't use logic or reason anymore because they are simply not traits they have any ability to utilise. They have all but gone.

Admittedly that sounds all very doom and gloom but it is something that can be and is overcome but it takes a strong network of individuals and supporting organisations to ensure that it is successful in the long term. Sadly it is those services which are slowly being eradicated and it is now that they are needed the most. I can only speak accurately about the area in which I work but taking a 6 month period from 2010 to a 6 month period in 2012 we have seen an increase in patients who are high risk by almost 40%. We now have less resources to deal with them

I’m going to throw some thoughts into the ring, some you might agree with, some you might not. This is actually pretty hard for me to write, but bear with me.

I make no claim to be in any way shape or form a counsellor, psychologist or anything else – what I can do is draw on personal experience.

In the last 6 or 7 years, I have known of 5 suicides of friends in my larger circle. The most recent was an ex girlfriend who committed suicide just over a year ago (this happened 2 years after we split up and was unrelated to that).
I’ve noticed a pattern among the people I have known that have killed themselves – all have tended to have underlying psychological issues (which you would expect), and all have been very heavy social media users, with less “real life” interaction that what I would deem to be the average.

Back in the old days, if you felt down or low, or had a problem, you’d meet your friends, talk to your mum, actually have real contact with a person who knew you in real life and so knew you properly.
That doesn’t seem to be the case any more – you post something, often a bit vague on Facebook. People who don’t know you in real life (you might hardly even know them at all), then offer nothing by way of practical help, but more false sympathy and they almost talk you down into a worse state of mind. What you end up with is a situation where instead of your mum or your mates saying “come on out for a night out and take your mind off it” or “come on, pull yourself together a bit” and snapping you out of the situation, someone you have never met talks you down further.

All the while this is happening, your laundry is being aired in public, which makes you more unhappy, and there is likely to be some trolling going on that makes you feel even worse. Some people get themselves back on track, sadly, many don’t and we end up with another statistic.
I don’t for a second claim to have the answers – but I do know this. We need to keep an eye out for our friends and family, and if someone you know is on that slope, you need to SEE them, take them for a pint, take them to the cinema, take them ANYWHERE but get them out of that room, out of that situation, even if just for a few hours. If you can do something to try and break the downward spiral, you might just be saving their life.

The answer is to post of STW instead. 💡

In the last 6 or 7 years, I have known of 5 suicides of friends in my larger circle. The most recent was an ex girlfriend who committed suicide just over a year ago (this happened 2 years after we split up and was unrelated to that).
I’ve noticed a pattern among the people I have known that have killed themselves – all have tended to have underlying psychological issues (which you would expect), and all have been very heavy social media users, with less “real life” interaction that what I would deem to be the average.

The simple answer is it can be part of the problem for some. As I said I discover more and more 'versions' of and causes of depression every week. The fact is that anything can potentially be a cause of depression, we don't choose our psychological make-up and sadly there is no real pattern. While it is absolutely correct that those with underlying psychological issues can suffer with depression at some point in their life it is also correct that someone who is seemingly psychologically balanced can too.

We used to believe (some still do) that depression was a symptom of something but I think it is fair to say that for the most part it is not widely believed that depression discriminates.

Actually I think there's a bigger picture with many facets being interwoven.

One of those involves food and specifically what goes into it, how much is GM/interfered with for maximum yield.

Certain foodstuffs are providing an addictive effect namely the excessive use of sugar, also carbohydrates.

Adolescents have a particularly hard time and, yes I've had two to bring up. Bad diet is part of it and I do believe that their nutritional needs are quite different at this stage. Perhaps comprehensive blood tests should be introduced.

I've talked on here about my health issues. What I find incomprehensible is that the NHS were more interested in my mental state and completing a tick box exercise. GPs kept telling me I was depressed and needed ADs - much easier than dealing with what was really wrong with me cos of course they didn't know! Practices get extra points for handing these out and now we have QOFs added to the equation.

I now realise that thousands of others with the same health issues are also getting told they're depressed and, like me, GPs were told where to shove it. Indeed, some have taken their lives due to not being treated.

It's a huge and complex subject but what is really sad is that those very people who need help, ie more than being handed ADs, are just not getting it.

GM foods causing suicide. Tenuous.

Compare the prospects of youth with my generation.

70s/ A job to go to a 16, brass in pocket, free university for the ambitious/too lazy to get a job. A car, a boy/girlfriend, the Saturday night bop, prospects, plans, ambitions, part of the union = plenty to live for.

2013/ A job at ???? Begging cash off mom and dad, student loans, bank loans, sold soul, living at home (or worse), Facetwitspacephonenet thing, unattainable dreams, rejection letters, failed interviews, unwanted, American style management, stress = plenty to die for.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/01/22/technology/22reuters-facebook-envy.html?_r=0

I haven't posted on here in ages. This is something I do when the depression gets worse - I start to withdraw from my old hobbies, social arenas etc. I've never been able to point to any specific conscious reason for doing this, it just seems like participating in "normal" life is somehow a lie, so I can't do it.

I started suffering from depression when I was 18. It was about 2 months after I started Uni, and I have never been the same person since. However, it never occurred to me that I was depressed, and the idea of suicide never crossed my mind, until one night when a good friend of mine tried to deliberately OD on various drugs. I'll never know if it was genuine or a cry-for-help, or even if there is really any meaningful difference.

But after that night, I had had the idea planted in my mind, and suddenly I had an escape route for all my troubles. If it stayed bad, I told myself, I would just off myself and be done with it. Perversely, this actually made me slightly happier, and I started to embrace the nihilism of it. I could always say to myself "I don't need to worry, because if anything goes wrong, I won't have to deal with it - I have a plan."

And this is a really important thing that not a lot of people appreciate. If someone you know has these kinds of problems, is historically troubled and depressed, but they suddenly appear happier, less stressed or worried, then that can be a huge warning. They may have just reached a sort of threshold in their thought processes where suicide is now a realistic option, and it takes away so much of the worry about the future.

I have personally been very close in the past, to the point of actually holding the knife to my wrists, but I have never quite gone over the edge.
To make matters worse, for the last 2 years, I have been trying to actually address all my problems. Except that it is incredibly frustrating, slow and sometimes backwards progress. I am at many times actually feeling worse than I ever have in the past , because now I am actually trying, constructively, for the first time in my life, and it is Not Easy.

It is so incredibly hard to work these problems through in my own head, and work out cause-and-effect relationships. Why do I feel bad? Is it biology, stress, childhood, neurology, psychology? And if I still can't unravel all the problems, even with the benefit(?) of being able to see into my own head and my own past, then it must be completely impossible for someone external to really understand the feelings of complete defeat and futility. And that is why it is so hard for anyone external to help, even if they wanted to, be they professional, amateur, friend, colleague, stranger. I get so frustrated with every professional I talk to about this, because no matter how well I think I explain things, they simply don't understand. Even when someone with problems finally admits to them and asks for help, it still feels like the treatments are complete guesswork.

It's only because I'm so stubborn, awkward and bloody-minded that I keep trying.

I will just make one comment on the "suicide as a selfish act" point that often comes out in these discussions. No, it is not selfish. What you are claiming, when you say that to someone who is depressed and suicidal, is that they have an obligation to put someone else's concerns and happiness above their own. You are effectively telling them that it is their job to extend their own misery just to satisfy someone else, and that is the most perverse thing you can say to someone so deep in their own nest of irrational despair. All it does is deepen their problems tenfold.

Wow. I didn't expect to write so much.

Wow. I didn't expect to write so much

But, what you did write was worth reading.

I will just make one comment on the "suicide as a selfish act" point that often comes out in these discussions. No, it is not selfish. What you are claiming, when you say that to someone who is depressed and suicidal, is that they have an obligation to put someone else's concerns and happiness above their own. You are effectively telling them that it is their job to extend their own misery just to satisfy someone else, and that is the most perverse thing you can say to someone so deep in their own nest of irrational despair. All it does is deepen their problems tenfold.

well said

There is a great deal of wisdom here...

I'll add my thoughts. In addition to all the issues raised so far, there are the extra issues affecting those who are marginalised through disability or economic exclusion. Before the policy was indifferent neglect; now it is hostility, harassment, and bullying, with the victims being blamed for their own fate, being accused of sponging or being frauds, having their finances upset, the goalposts moved, and those who would have the greatest difficulties in finding work; or keeping a job if they found it; expected to do the impossible, and condemned and sanctioned when they can't

It is a testament to the underlying resilience and tenacity of the people who can withstand this state-sponsored abuse that so few of them have cracked under the strain.

I will just make one comment on the "suicide as a selfish act" point that often comes out in these discussions. No, it is not selfish. What you are claiming, when you say that to someone who is depressed and suicidal, is that they have an obligation to put someone else's concerns and happiness above their own. You are effectively telling them that it is their job to extend their own misery just to satisfy someone else, and that is the most perverse thing you can say to someone so deep in their own nest of irrational despair. All it does is deepen their problems tenfold.

Very well said.

Compare the prospects of youth with my generation.

70s/ A job to go to a 16, brass in pocket, free university for the ambitious/too lazy to get a job. A car, a boy/girlfriend, the Saturday night bop, prospects, plans, ambitions, part of the union = plenty to live for.

2013/ A job at ???? Begging cash off mom and dad, student loans, bank loans, sold soul, living at home (or worse), Facetwitspacephonenet thing, unattainable dreams, rejection letters, failed interviews, unwanted, American style management, stress = plenty to die for.

Not sure if this is over simplistic or not but I certainly find a lot in there to agree with.

I left school in 81, just as Thatcher was getting busy. Even then there seemed to be more options available than there are now. The thought of leaving school for a long-term career on benefits was largely unheard of. There was still a choice between education, job or career. Fast forward and we are involved in a massive race to the bottom. Who can do more for less? Save costs by eroding salary packages. Slash benefits across the board. Put education beyond the masses. Yet still tax evasion by the very wealthy is tolerated if not celebrated in some circles.

24 hour news is a constant barrage of how bad things are punctuated by stuffed suits telling us that there is more pain to come.

I suffered redundancy in August 2009. It took me 6 months to get back on track. They were mentally and emotionally bleak times. I can understand how someone could be tipped over the edge.

We need to keep an eye out for our friends and family, and if someone you know is on that slope, you need to SEE them, take them for a pint, take them to the cinema, take them ANYWHERE but get them out of that room, out of that situation, even if just for a few hours. If you can do something to try and break the downward spiral, you might just be saving their life.

This is SO important. Get someone into a situation where they are dealing with other human beings, and all those self-destructive spirals don't have room to breed. You don't have to provide an intervention, have a Serious Talk or let them cry on your shoulder. Just talk bollocks and play cards. Human contact is a great soother. It won't fix everything, but it'll make them feel like a person for a little while.

24 hour news is a constant barrage of how bad things are punctuated by stuffed suits telling us that there is more pain to come.

Yes. Everywhere.

I sometimes find myself shouting at some loathsome thing on the TV that disgusts me and I'm hardly a teenager anymore.

It must be incredibly hard for a teenager to cope with when they haven't even got around to deciding who they are and what they think, to be faced with a world that seems to be descending into a bucket of shit faster with every passing week...

GM foods causing suicide. Tenuous.

There has recently been a very strong link between violent crime and lead in the atmosphere, it is not unreasonable to believe there are other pollutants in our atmosphere/food chain/water supply that are having unexpected behavioral reactions.

I could always say to myself "I don't need to worry, because if anything goes wrong, I won't have to deal with it - I have a plan."

Very well put and something I've never been able to convey.

Coyote - you're absolutely bang on with that! Things are grim. But the problem is going forward. You have to have optimism, so people can see a brighter future. But with the best will in the world, can you see things getting any better any time soon? The question is only how much worse can it get? and its best not to think about that too hard

We live in a society where already gross inequality is getting worse and worse almost by the hour, and social mobility has gone into reverse, hading back to Victorian levels. That's unsustainable ultimately. At present this manifests itself as widespread depression and increased suicides. But there has to be a tipping point where that starts to translate into large scale civil unrest. I'd be amazed if thats not where we're ultimately heading. And disappointed

Civil unrest-- revolution is what's needed .

Only by social living, caring and sharing do we stand a chance of fulfilling our potential as humans, this selfish and mean spirited system we toil under is harmful to us all (99 % )

16SP. Extremely candid, and brilliantly put. The ultimate get out clause is so true, that's still a part of my coping mech, knowing it's there perversely makes it less likely that I'd ever use it. If I thought the bad times would last for ever without end, that would be worse.

And +1 for the 'selfish' comments. It's the opposite; someone who is deeply depressed to the point of being close to taking their own life - to carry on just to avoid the impact it would have on others, that's about as selfless as it can get.

So much is true here I cannot begin to précis it all, but it is true that we all need belief in a better tomorrow and frankly that just is not present and we all know who is to blame.

So as I said earlier in jest but also logic does dictate that rather than take your own life it would seem more reasonable to take the lives of those who have bequeathed such unhappiness to so many.

So I do tend to agree with rudebwoy, we do need a bloody revolution and soon.

a bloody revolution and soon.

Are you using the word "bloody" as a epithetic reinforcement, or are you demanding actual blood?

We want heads on Spikes in the City Wopster!!! Nothing less will do!!!!

As an NHS grunt, I've seen a fair amount of physical illness & trauma. None of it scares me asmuch as what one might loosely term 'mental suffering' - seeing people who feel that they have only one way out, and how the [i]apparent[/i] logic of that decision becomes overwhelming.

There's nothing easy to say about it, IME - except this: you are [b]never[/b] alone, however desperate you might feel.

[i]I've always wondered what makes one man fight back and another take his life, it's not weakness.[/i]

Well, not sure about that in the instance you mention. If someone previously very successful, living the life loses it all and then commits suicide, it must be out of a combination of shame and depression.

Not exactly fighting back is it? Fighting back is picking yourself up, dusting yourself down and doing it all over again!

I will NEVER curse someone who has held me up on the motorway due to a suicide attempt. Barton bridge/M60 is a regular spot.

Seeing flowers over a motorway bridge also makes me sad beyond words. How much private inner turmoil that that person was in. The agony. Unimaginable.

Amazing who would have thought it approximately half of the stw demographic have been close to suicide?

Astounding.

I'm a 29 year old guy soon to be 30, my wife of 2 years left me in August 2012 having been together 7 years before marriage. I'll be completely honest it tore me to bits, that coupled with my grandmother being extremely ill in hospital; I have certainly considered it. Fortunately I do have a great bunch of friends that have been there for me to talk / cry it out, I'm not ashamed to admit that. Every day is extremely hard, I work away in the week and being on my own isn't ideal as thats when I tend to think about things, get upset and wonder where I'm going. I'm slowly dealing with things; I was dreading Xmas being on my own but I got through it. Just got to get through February now; birthday and wedding anniversary! I haven't actually attempted suicide but I certainly have contemplated it. I simply try to keep busy and get out and about as much as possible, it's incredibly hard and different people deal with things in completely different ways.

Although I cant say anything positive as such. Imagine you are 45 and single. 29, you are bloody young. I think negativity makes us forget the possible positives. A flawed analogy but revel in your youth.

Cheers hora, I know you're right but it's hard to get in a positive attitude sometimes. I'm currently trying to get a job back home in the North West to give myself another challenge and the ability to stay in my own house, go to the gym and go play rugby. There is some light at the end of the tunnel but it may also come with additional stress with the new job, 2nd interview on Friday; fingers crossed I get it and have a new challenge to focus on!! The ex certainly doesn't help matters with dragging her feet over the divorce and the house. I'm sure I'll be ok, but at times you just get in the frame of mind where you wonder "why bother".

I dunno if I can add much useful really but I'll have a go..

augustey - please mate hang in there..

you never know what's around the corner and life has so many good surprises left in store once you've got your strength back enough to open your mind to them..

I say this as it was 20 years ago this week that I miraculously survived a very serious suicide attempt..

The last 15 or so years have been the most joyful and exhilarating, exceeding my expectations and often my imagination many times over.. and any trials I face now generally seem trifling in comparison

My problem wasn't so much one of why bother, but more one of truly believing that I had some very scary problems and that there was no way out.. I pushed my friends and family away to protect them and before long I had let myself get as crazy as a bag of rats if I'm honest..
My inner demons had grown so big and powerful that they had taken on a life of their own..

I don't know if it's helpful to the thread but any serious suicide attempt is going to have a fair bit of mental illness behind it in my opinion..
I struggled to get professional help until after the event, but I think that seeking help has been made a bit easier since then, with your GP being an important first port of call..

No-one really wants to take pills or admit that they are struggling but I think it would have helped me to find an alternative path, or at least alerted folk to the mess my mind was in..
It was certainly vital in the traumatic convalescence period that followed my suicide attempt..

I'm gonna echo what Hora said too... revel in your youth.. do some things that you know she wouldn't approve of, even do some things that [i]you[/i] wouldn't approve of..

most of all be good to yourself

My friend killed himself just before Christmas. His funeral was filled with very close and very good friends. I just wish he could have seen the amount of love there was for him before he did it.
We'll never get over it. Such a waste of an amazing man.
Leaves terrible what ifs.

If you are getting low. Please please seek help. You only get one shot.
There are so many people who love you.
You just might not be able to see it.

You only get one shot.

You mean this ISN'T the practice run? 😯

Oh no...

You have many shots at life. Its when you let wieriness colour your outlook that it puts new people/job opportunities off you.

Michelle Obama said keep getting up and try again.