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Well, looks like Glaws could be up for sale..............
Pro12 distils the best domestic players into 4(Ir/Wa) or 2(Sc) teams.
The player base of the pro12 is less than that of England I reckon. The aviva also has a much greater financial clout than the pro12 teams. True the French budgets are much bigger but the deck is hardly stacked against the english teams. Oh and the welsh have hardly distilled the best players into the regions when:
Hook
North
Davies
Roberts
1/2p
Morgan
Peel
Ryan Jones
?
?
Evans
Dvies
The Fridge/Francis
Hibbard
Rhys Gill
are playing abroad and St. Gav
Edinburgh appear to be making easy work of London Irish.
Good to see the not nots fans buying into the magic of Europe!
Edinburgh appear to be making easy work of London Irish.
Well that's changed...
AA - I agree the exodus of home talent isn't helping Wales at all, either domestically or internationally. That list you put up is directly linked to the performance of the Welsh domestic teams in the ECC.
I think Ireland benefit in both terms from the arrangement. The Leinster pack is basically Ireland's, so lots of continuity. They also seem much better at keeping the talent at home. I don't know if they just have more financial clout, or if there is another reason?
I'd like to see all of the home nations teams find a way to challenge the might of the French league.
I don't know if they just have more financial clout, or if there is another reason?
Yes, fans go to the games and the Irish union have more money to spend due to less debt. I believe the tax situation is very favourable for the players too.
If you have played on Ireland for a certain period of time, is it not tax free? Good that their economy is so healthy they can give sportsmen and women a break like that...oh,wait! Iirc, were it football, they would break Fifa law.
Disagree the exodus from Wales isnt so bad, the regions cant afford expensive foreign players so there are a lot of young players from Wales getting games. That improves them, improves coaching improves the prospects of players in the feeder clubs.
Samson Lee is a great example of a youngster home grown and blooded early at the Scarlets
True, but it takes control of the big players out of the WRUs hands if they are playing overseas.
It means the regions are not competitive, thats bad for everyone including young players.
Is it a biggie? The Welsh teams are competitive in the pro12. The competition in the European cup is essentially the IRU and unrestrained spending. I understand that some Welsh might want the WRU owning the clubs, but rampant football-type spending won't do rugby any favours.
Lucky Edinburgh - great defence but they should have lost.
What was the Yellow for the Edinburgh player for, & if foul play, why not a penalty reversal?
Also, on the last decision, the ref says"try Y/N - if not, then penalty" He then blows for the end of the match - ???
I would rather "uncompetitive" regions than the galaticos of the Ospreys, throwing millions at southern hemi mercenaries wont do the game in Wales any good.
True, PF, but if the WRU had the same policy as England, would the big players stay at home?
but rampant football-type spending won't do rugby any favours.
At some point watching Toulon buy (or perhaps bore) their way to yet another Euro championship will lose it's appeal. 🙂
I would rather "uncompetitive" regions than the galaticos of the Ospreys, throwing millions at southern hemi mercenaries wont do the game in Wales any good.
And look where it got them!
At some point watching Toulon buy (or perhaps bore) their way to yet another Euro championship will lose it's appeal.
Absolutely. It's just turning into a premier league style arms race in france. Did you see the Clermont line up? 😯
Most had full international caps I think. They took off Fofana, and replaced him with Rougerie!
It's just not sustainable IMHO.
It is if someone's willing to pay!
Yes it is, the owners are the Fremch eq of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Rupert Murdoch. Even allowing for the huge wages, they have prob lost more down their sofa.
The Welsh teams are competitive in the pro12
Not really 4th, 8,9,10th of 12. Onlyvthe italians are below scarlets, blues and dragons.
galaticos of the Ospreys, throwing millions at southern hemi mercenaries wont do the game in Wales any good.
Doesnt have to be one or the other. But when the O's had Holah, Filo, Marshall et al it didnt stop them producing loads of Wales players.
Those players are better than Arhip, Ardron, Bernado, Cuvibati, Dirkson, Hassler, Matevasi, Natoga and Steenkamp...dross.
Yes it is, the owners are the Fremch eq of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Rupert Murdoch. Even allowing for the huge wages, they have prob lost more down their sofa.
What happens when they get bored, lose their money, get locked up or die?
Toulons budget this year was reported to be 35 million euros!!!! Shit the ****ing bed!!!!
Listening to it on the radio sounded like the dream Ba Ba's side 😆
I'm sceptical of that number @wrecker. I think some of the other French sides are spending more. Dan Carter doesnt come cheap and if Toulon had that sort of budget they would have a better 10 than Michelak
Exactly wrecker.
Listening to it on the radio sounded like the dream Ba Ba's side
I doubt that Toulon have ever heard of Baabaas style throwabout rugby. They are THE trundle-orcs, if ever a team could be described as such. Such a waste of talent.
I'm sceptical of that number @wrecker. I think some of the other French sides are spending more. Dan Carter doesnt come cheap and if Toulon had that sort of budget they would have a better 10 than Michelak
It might be bollocks.
Was reading about glaws. For sale for £25m-odd. They aren't going to win the euro cup, or even the AP any time soon but they play decent rugby, have a fair sized following, some good players and they turn a 1/2M profit every year. There's a lot to be said for that. Sure there are better investment opportunities around, but for a wealthy fan its a goer surely?
if Toulon had that sort of budget they would have a better 10 than Michelak
They do.
Sanchez, Hernandez and Giteau.
Burgess to start as flanker, will be interesting.
Interesting stuff a_a. It's a shame for the bloke but he seems to be a sensible chap who recognises that there's more to life than Rugby. Good luck to him.
"Once I got all the information from the medical staff the actual decision was quite easy,"
I wonder how a boxer or MMA fighter would get on?
@wrecker - 10x earnings puts Gloucester at £5m. Clearly I have no idea how valuing sports franchises really works but there is nothing like the money in rugby that there is in football which just keeps going up and up. From what I know owning Rugby clubs has been a rich mans hobby, the Toulon owner has put in a big amount over the last 5+ years.
@Pigface, yes interesting indeed, its been discussed since he came over as to whether he'd play flanker or centre. I'd say flanker is more technical and harder to pick up quickly if you've not been playing there for years. I wonder if the emergence of all the centre talent for England has promoted this. We shall see.
@wrecker - 10x earnings puts Gloucester at £5m.
That valuation doesn't include any assets though does it?
From what I know owning Rugby clubs has been a rich mans hobby, the Toulon owner has put in a big amount over the last 5+ years.
Kind of the point, Glaws is sustainable in that it turns a profit. Whilst there are better investments out there, at least this won't be a complete money pit like many clubs would. Bath lost £2.9m this year and £3.5-odd last year.
Gloucester is probably as good a bet as you'd get for an investment in the AP. Turns a profit, owns its own ground, plus if rumour has it, a fair amount around the immediate vicinity. I bet if you remove the `home' matches at Twickenham, Wembley etc, only Tigers attract a bigger crowd. Average AP gate this season is over 14k so with a capacity of 16.5k, there is room for improvement.
I dunno scamper;
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php#koP2isMuKlWo02m4.97
But broadly agreed that Glaws isn't a bad business. I have no idea if it's worth anywhere near £25M though.
I can't believe Irish, Sarries, Quins etc get those totals from your day in, day out Premiership matches outside Twickers
I call bobbins on those figures Exeter get really good crowds, What is the capacity at Bath it used to be tiny.
Here's last years from another source;
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=436
I think the wreck used to hold 12k, now 14k. According to my ST holding colleague, most home games are a sell out. Sandy Park holds 12.5K. Exeter don't have as many fans as barf.
I think Exeter is about 10k? Barth can't be more than about 12k surely? EDIT, there you go.
Funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Glaws attendance figures this year are back up to where they were when they were regularly challenging for the title 6 years or so ago. So they must be doing something right off the pitch along with evidently more use of the Facilities outside rugby.
Glaws are lucky IMHO. A fairly sizable city with a monopoly on live sport (at a decent level), no soccer or whatever to try and compete with. It's brilliant! I wish we in brizzle could sack both of our shit soccer teams and just be a rugby city!
those figures are massively skewed by the "super Saturday" games at borrowed stadiums these show averages and (freak) highest
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=469
edit
wrecker found it too 🙂
I wonder if the emergence of all the centre talent for England has promoted this. We shall see.
....we're hardly short on Flankers though either are we? Certainly not 6's anyway....there's no way that he's going to play 7 is there?!
Tend to agree that they'd be a great investment for someone who wanted to buy a rugby team.
The fans are there, their own grounds there, lack of debt, bring through their own players too - with a decent catchment area.
And they've got David Humphrey's running the show - if you look at what he did with Ulster in recent history you'll see that success on the pitch shouldn't be a complete pipe-dream too.
Was a good interview with him on Irish news , but talking about Glaws now. His philosophy's the same at Glaws now as it was at Ulster - and IMO it's the same at the other provinces and is the fundamental driving force behind Irish rugby success at club level.
“I have always maintained that on-pitch success drives everything,” Humphreys said.
“The better you do on the pitch, the more people will come and watch you. The more people who come and watch you, the more sponsors you can attract. The more sponsors you can attract, the more money you have for recruitment, facilities and the academy.
“This league is so tough that you need to build a squad that can sustain a challenge for the entire season.”
http://www.the42.ie/david-humphreys-ulster-2027944-Apr2015/
Also, meant to pick up on this earlier
The competition in the European cup is essentially the IRU and unrestrained spending.
IRFU involvement is a massive red herring when talking about Irish success. Leinster would carry on as they are as a sustainable club without the IRFU. They generate their own income, through gates, prize money and merchandise , not from central funds. Think only a couple of clubs in Europe have higher average attendances - Bordeaux and Leicester spring to mind. It's that sort of philosophy above, with cooperation and people pulling in the same direction that drives the success.
Ulster and Munster are similar - self suficient- and have less outgoings as they both own their own grounds. Don't think Connacht are quite there, but they're a vital part of the overall success as they complete the set up as 4 provinces - which is what the fans want, it the "goldilocks" set up for this situation and the fans and player numbers involved.
Otherwise the regions might as well be franchises.
But would the Irish players still want to stay there if they had to pay all their tax?