[Closed] STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

Well, congratulations Ireland...best team tops the table imo.

Cracking day of rugby.....best I can ever remember.

*Raises a glass to everyone on here...it's been a great 6n's, great banter for the most part on here and reiterated just why I love rugby*

See you at the world cup gents 🙂

Great day of rugby. No complaints.

England blew it by not thrashing Scotland - not by a lack of effort today.

I appreciate that today was exceptional in terms of what teams had to do, but if coaches looked at that and realised what rugby can look like, it would be refreshing. Ball (more in hand), taking at pace. Looking to score 7 points.

A debenture would be worth it for that!!

To the Welsh fans :- your team was the most inventive of the tournament
To the Irish fans. : - best team of the season.
To the Scots fans :- so, so close but no cigar
To the English : Once again we fall short by inches

Ive had a great day, I'm pissed and I love you all..

Hic..

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Lawes tackled fenchman landed on head. Simple easy clear red

Only French TV would switch coverage channel on 79 mins !

French definitely put on their best performance of the tournament. Italy and Scotland should be embarrassed. I am happy Ireland won it given their victory against England, that's justice

Now I have got over my joy of england "blowing it" 😉

I have just had the privilege of watching an astonishing game of rugby at Twikenham, that will live long in the memory.

An extraordinary game 😀

Jambalaya you are an idiot 😆

Tom B - Member
Haskell.....* hell he went to private school man....how can he be so * thick?!
Yes, Papplewick and Wellington, with such a rugby heritage that was ****ish!

and they wonder why!

@tmh I find this sort of rugby dull in the extreme, I watched Cantebury play their match at Twickenham after the earthquake and Martin and I left early it was so boring 55-45 or something like that. All a bit of a joke.

Reckon Hogg must of had the England game in the back of his mind when he almost scored at the end there...

No smiley there? jambs, really?? There was some real quality today among all the many mistakes. How could that be in any way dull. My younger one was at T today. Lucky bloke!

Rubbish. Quality hard hit and unlike Warburton he didn't just drop him. Reviewed by technical official and ref and both came to the same conclusion. no penalty and of course no card

So he didnt land on his head then?

I do feel for Wales, putting that huge performance in then watching all that hard work dribble away - but that's rugby!

It was late too.

Feet above head, head hits ground. Red card. Very suprised it wasnt at least yellow.

Nope - not red.

Haskell.....* hell he went to private school man....how can he be so * thick?!

You don't have to be particularly clever if you are good at Rugby.

I find this sort of rugby dull in the extreme, I watched Cantebury play their match at Twickenham after the earthquake and Martin and I left early it was so boring 55-45 or something like that. All a bit of a joke.

I agree to a large extent, a day of eating Chinese meals - not enough steak.

Care to explain why not. Legs rotate above head, head hits the ground first.

It was late. Nothing else

find this sort of rugby dull in the extreme, I watched Cantebury play their match at Twickenham after the earthquake and Martin and I left early it was so boring 55-45 or something like that. All a bit of a joke.

Wales game was garbage, Ireland a bit meh England game was good though

It was late. Nothing else

So he didnt land on his head with his legs in the air then? User name correct.

Law 10.4(j) reads: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

A directive was issued to all Unions and Match Officials in 2009 emphasizing the IRB’s zero-tolerance stance towards dangerous tackles and reiterating the following instructions for referees:

- The player is lifted and then forced or ‘speared’ into the ground (red card offence)

- The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety (red card offence)

- For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles a yellow card or penalty may be considered sufficient

So yellow at best

Careful AA or Nigel * will be having a chat with you too

* great ref was there and reviews with TMO on the spot. I think I'll take their version. In Nigel's mind it wasn't even late and he seems to know what he is doing (the odd ruck aside 😉 )

He didn't lift him.

How did he get off the ground then?

Care to explain why not. Legs rotate above head, head hits the ground first.

He didnt drop him or spear him into the ground.

England blew it by not thrashing Scotland - not by a lack of effort today.

The didnt because they couldnt.

All those definitions require the player to be lifted. In Lawes case Plisson's going downwards overall from the moment of impact even if his feet come up.

I think they were too busy seeing if it was late or not and tbh it isnt really although it is a cheap shot.
Xavier will no what to do!

Even Brian Moore said it was on the limit, I thought it deserved a yellow, similar hits have resulted in Red. I think he got very lucky.

All those definitions require the player to be lifted. In Lawes case Plisson's going downwards overall from the moment of impact even if his feet come up.

This, I reckon. Lawes hits him just below the line of his shoulders, and after that the lads shoulders only ever go down. Maybe it's verbal semantics, but I think it's fair to say Lawes never lifted him up at all. That his legs then flipped up to put him head down is due to the velocity of the hit, not Lawes lifting then inverting him. That's all I can think.

The law states "lifting a player from the ground". It says nothi g about how high. The ten was airbourne due to the tackle and lands on his bonce with Lates (sic) bringing his weight down on him. Its not intentional but he still did it.

but he still didn't lift him.

Well Ireland just about deserved it over really inconsistent wales and poor defensive England but a great 6 nations with even the "allsorans" playing fantastic rugby.

If he didnt lift him how did he get off the ground?

Cracking day of rugby
Fair order of the final standing based on the tournament overall
SH have little to worry about

Am I the only person to not be impressed by England's performance today? They were the only team that knew what they had to do today and they had home advantage. It should have been a six nations win but they couldn't deliver the coup de gras against a team that has been poor all tournament and they conconceeded five tries!!!! Yes they won but it never felt comfortable.

France actually showed up & played today. England could have turned up & ground out a win by 5-10 with their eyes closed.

Instead, they played an open game to try to win the tournament, knowing full well that the French would thrive on that.

If Owens had decided the maul on the line in the 78th minute was pulled down, then we would be talking about England's amazing attacking game to win the tournament. Small margins, but I'm still glad we played the way we did, and had a go.

AA - that was never a spear tackle in a million years. It was slightly late, but legal due to being committed to the tackle before the No10 passed.

As to why he collapsed like a rag doll and his feet flew up - no idea.

It was right on the edge, but according to the Ref/TMO/TJ just on the legal side. Whereas that Rush tackle was lunacy.

Late but legal, make up your mind 😆

Late, as in the ball had gone. Not against the rules, as in he was committed to the tackle when the 10 passed.

So the ball had gone and he still smashed him and drilled his head into the ground, as I have said very lucky not to have had a 10 minute rest, if Ford had been hit like that people would go gone into melt down

anagallis_arvensis - Member
If he didnt lift him how did he get off the ground?

Physics. Hit above the centre of gravity by 115kgs at high velocity, pivots around centre of gravity. The law is specifically designed to stop players lifting and driving the opponent backwards and in to the ground. No lift or attempt to lift, not illegal. Bloody good hit, and one that will be in highlights reels for some time.

Pig face - the ferocity of the hit is immaterial. The only issue is the timing. By the letter of the las, if you are committed to the tackle if isn't deemed late. One of the best NH refs saw it live, saw it 3 times on slow-mo, and decided it was fine.

I disagree he could of easily lessened the impact, he followed through with 100% commitment, it would be been a hit of wonder if it wasn't late. He got away with it, it is done but I don't think it is anything to be cheering. Brian Lima made a career out of questionable hits some people think he is a hero, I dont.

I once saw a young girl, maybe around 5 or 6 run smack into an overhanging granite worktop - so hard she smashed her glasses. The back of her head hit the tiles before her feet landed. That hit today reminded me of how sickening it looked. I thought Moore had it right - and he was lucky to get away unsanctioned, but in this case, I'd defer to Nige and the TMO, but Lawes got a huge spoonful of benefit of the doubt (IMO).

DD, don't disagree, it was borderline. The replay clearly showed Lawes flying at him whilst he still had the ball though.

Lawes needs to be careful though. If you constantly fire off big 50/50 hits, he will get carded and get a rep. Then he won't get any benefit of the doubt.

Lawes needs to be careful though. If you constantly fire off big 50/50 hits, he will get carded and get a rep. Then he won't get any benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, sorry, when I said "sickening", I was just referring to the sight of it, rather than any intention on Lawes' part. I agree with what you're saying, and in essence, (from what I remember), that's what Moore said during his punditry. If you're going to play like that, then, sometimes you'll be late and you'll be punished for it. Lawes got away with it today but hey, the best ref in the world and the TMO took a bit of time over it, and let it go. Another day, another ref, another TMO and he might have been sitting down for ten.

Well, all I know is he won't get away with doing that to Carter in the WC 😆 (if he is still around)

I thought England played ok but it was a weird old game and at the end of the day they missed their target. The players and management have been blabbing all week about how they won't choke and....

Haskell actually is smarter than we think- he was adamant before the game that England "would never again choke like 2011" when they lost out on the grand slam... maybe he forgot about the other unsuccessful years and 2013 in particular 😉 😆

Am I the only person to not be impressed by England's performance today?

I don't think England choked - Ireland just left them too much to chase. France only shipped 2 tries in the first 4 games, we scored 7 today. France lost to Ireland and Wales by 7. We got to +20, and were on their line at the end and nearly got there.

We choked in Dublin, and failed to put away Scotland. That's when we lost the championship, not today.

The challenge for Lancaster and the coaches is to harness the attacking spirit showed today, and keep,some of the defensive strength England had in the last few years.

Nowt wrong with the lawes hit. Nige is no fool
Best team won, second best team came second. Worst team came last. Not rocket science.

Ref and TMO got the Fin Russel one wrong too.

Wrong sanction (yellow not red) or wrong that he had done anything wrong?

Maybe choked isn't the best word but England knew what they had to do and actually put themselves in a great position of achieving it but lacked the little extra something to actually pull it off. Silly things like the early two French tries made the game as crazy as it was and goodness know what Lancaster was thinking with the early, pre planned substitutions of key players.

It will be interesting to see what England do at 10. Ford clearly adds a lot with ball in hand and the timing of his passing is beautiful... But each game he seems to give away penalties in the England half geting isolated and holding on, plus the kicking success over the entire tournamount is far too low for an international. I wouldn't be surprised to see Farrel back despite some great play from Ford (and finally spot on place kicking against France)

England do some good things despite Lancaster's ineffective tinkering.

His selections have produced an unbalanced side and his idiotic pre-planned substitutions don't seem to account for who's playing well. Ben Youngs was having the game of his life yet he gets hauled off?

How many points did France drop with woeful kicking?

Cracking day's rugby to round off a great tournament.

Times "team of the tournament" is funnier than some of the comments above . 😉

[i]15. Halfpenny (Wales)
14. Sarto (Italy)
13. Joseph (England)
12. Henshaw (Ireland)
11. Nowell (England)
10. Ford (England)
9. Gori (Italy)
1. Marler (England)
2. Ghiraldini (Italy)
3. Mas (France)
4. AW Jones (Wales)
5. Charteris (Wales)
6. O’Mahony (Ireland)
7. Warburton (Wales)
8. Parisse (Italy)[/i]

On the Lawes hit
- Owens backed himself into a corner by making the call that it was not late aloud , before going with the TMO saying to review it.

With the French players all calling for a review too, I don't think he wanted to be seen to change his mind and lose control of the game at that stage. He just stayed strong on his original call to keep control - the frenchman getting up and playing on helped allow him to do so.
don't think Lawes will get away with another one like that with Owens reffing.

Think it's telling that he let the French retaliation go completely, no card and no penalty - didn't even want to consider one, to kind of even it up a little - then reversed the put-in at the scrum as if he was reversing a pen for violent retaliation.

On the Lawes hit:

A fraction later it would have a been a yellow (or red) card.

A fraction earlier it would have been tackle of the tournament.

Think it's telling that he let the French retaliation go completely, no card and no penalty - didn't even want to consider one, to kind of even it up a little - then reversed the put-in at the scrum as if he was reversing a pen for violent retaliation.

What French retaliation? There wasn't even any pushing to mention let alone anything more! Nothing to let go or use to even the decision making at all since nothing happened apart from a lot of blokes standing around looking at Lawes. That was probably the biggest surprise of the whole tournament as someone said earlier too! 😆

Wrong sanction (yellow not red) or wrong that he had done anything wrongrong sanction (yellow not red) or wrong that he had done anything wrong?

Wrong sanction, the banning means the citing panel thought it should have been a red.

Anyone else seen this

Speechless to be honest. What would motivate someone to do that to a competitor?

I saw a comment on wherever I first saw that clip to the effect that the 8 was twisting or bending Du Plessis' foot/ankle. Which [i]if true[/i] - not seeing it myself TBH, but it does look like he lashed out quickly so maybe he thought so - might have been his motivation (provocation, whatever)? Not an excuse obviously.

On the Lawes hit, ...one of the tackles of the tournament, in front of one of the refs of the tournament

Can someone make a gif?

"CHRISTOPHER!!!"
Great moment.

Agreed, wrecker, that was hilarious.

On the [s]thug[/s] du Plessis kick, interesting to watch the target. Just basically got on with it. Kind of says enough really.

[img] [/img]

That angle of the Lawes tackle has me less and less convinced it was ok. I've been pretty convinced it was just a brutal, fair tackle but on seeing it like that and seeing Lawes check his run, I think Lawes always intended to be a fraction late, but just the right fraction to completely blindside the poor fly half while still getting away with it. Superb timing you could say 😯

Honest question, are you "allowed" to hit someone in the back as high as that? I can't think of laws preventing it but a tackle in the back of the shoulder/ neck is only going to end badly for the tackled player really...

I saw a comment on wherever I first saw that clip to the effect that the 8 was twisting or bending Du Plessis' foot/ankle. Which if true - not seeing it myself TBH, but it does look like he lashed out quickly so maybe he thought so - might have been his motivation (provocation, whatever)? Not an excuse obviously.

Seems fair since the 8 didn't seem too worried or shocked

"CHRISTOPHER!!!"
Great moment.

Also, Owens getting Robshaw and Brown together early to tell them he wouldn't tolerate any backchat. Cut out most of the whinging.... is Owens on STW? 😆

Because Lawes checks his run he obviously intends to be a wee bit late to catch No 10 off guard and try to hurt him.

RED Card all day long.

Checks his run? Is that a second gif?

Asks Nige said, he commits to the tackle before the ball has gone (watch his head) and the whiplash is due to the physical mismatch not dirty play. It's not tag rugby and these guys are not U9.

Watching the way these guys take the bit and then watching the L v MU match, at least #10 didn't spent 2 minutes rolling around despite the fact that that must have hurt.

Edit: from JIm Greenwood [i]Total Rugby[/i] and how to tackle: "a potential tackler running flat out is too easily beaten....you go to meet him, lower your centre of gravity, get your head to one side, and focus on driving your tackling shoulder up into his solar plexus. Your arms close round him, but the power of the tackle comes from checking his upper body, and simultaneously, as your legs straighten lifting his feet off the ground. You then drive through to put him over backward."

This is how to tackle head on, so Lawes is not facing #10 head on and hence is not hitting the solar plexus, but everything else close to the manual...

Exeter- Sarries equal with 90s left!

namastebuzz - Member

A fraction earlier it would have been tackle of the tournament.

Heaslip.

Its not late but as an ex flanker I know that he knew what hecwas doing. Its a cheapshot but not illegal from a timing perspective. I am more concerned about the legs invthe air and him coming down with Lawes full weight on his head.

How can anyone seeing that not think that Lawes was a very lucky boy.

Heaslip.

+1

😆

:

from JIm Greenwood Total Rugby and how to tackle: "a potential tackler running flat out is too easily beaten....you go to meet him, lower your centre of gravity, get your head to one side, and focus on driving your tackling shoulder up into his solar plexus. Your arms close round him, but the power of the tackle comes from checking his upper body, and simultaneously, as your legs straighten lifting his feet off the ground. You then drive through to put him over backward."

Someone should tell Dan Lydiate.
I reckon some of his ankle chops are better than any diving cheapshot to the back.

Lawes was a little late, no more no less. A-A is just pissed that Wales didn't finish higher than England.

#edit - Oh and congratulations to Ireland. Not rated your style of play throughout the tournament but but all that is holy did you turn it on yesterday. Please let all the home nations continue the potential they are showing into the World Cup. Should be a cracker!

namastebuzz - Member
Heaslip.

Ouch!!! But true...

Coyote - seems like it, doesn't it and Nigel's comments are very clear !!

Lawes was a little late, no more no less. A-A is just pissed that Wales didn't finish higher than England.

I don't think so. No Welshman ever expects success from the National side 😉 Seeing a player be driven in to the ground head first, however legal the appearance of the tackle, is a pretty reasonable discussion point. It is 50/50 enough to get a lot of people talking about it...

Lawes was a little late, no more no less. A-A is just pissed that Wales didn't finish higher than England.

Not all all drunk thanks.
Not at all bothered by Wales finishing third. We have afterall won three grandslams since 2005. Winning a championship on points was nice but not the same.