Agreed AA, Vunipola has not learnt or been coached from his mistakes in the Lions.....this limits him massively. Mr S Lee had a hard night but seems to have some talent. Hibbard was relatively quiet, I had him to smash tackle someone inside 6 minutes....preferably Hartley.
Referring the scrum is not easy but it now bordering on embarrassment for the game. Really needs sorting. Faleteau pickup was handling in the scrum but also wonderful skill, athleticism.
It will be interesting to see the NO 8 of the tournament.
Vunipola is the wrong shape for a prop now the hits been removed.
Lee is a great prospect only 22 I think doing very well to just hold his own. Hibbard was quiet as was Ball and Gethin. Very subdued performance. Dont want to rain on Eglands parade as it was a damn good win but I do think wales were very poor.
[i]Like so many internationals, game was won in the back row.
Haskell, Vunipola and Robshaw all made good yards.
Faletau made a little, Warburton and Lydiate didn't.[/i]
That rubbish I'm afraid.
Afraid not. You can make your own rose tinted narrative but the stats don't lie.
Robshaw alone made as many yards as the entire Wales back row.
Vunipola made more, and Haskell nearly double.
England back row made 4 times as much distance as their welsh counterparts, and usually took both flankers to tackle them leaving space outside for the likes of Watson and Joseph.
In attack, England back row were also on top for clean breaks 1-0 to England BR ; defenders beaten 5-1 EBR ; and offloads 2-1 EBR.
Faletau had his moment, with an offload assist for the try where Haskell missed a tackle, but other than that, the problem was there was minimal attacking threat from the Welsh back row despite more possession.
And the defensive stats favour England back row too:
Lydiate 15 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
warburton 14 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
faletau 15 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
Haskell 15 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
Robshaw 26 tackles made, 0 missed, one turnover
Vunipola 14 tackles made, 0 missed, one turnover
Robshaw is underestimated and unsung, good player and getting better as capt
26 tackles, none missed, a turnover and as much yardage as the entire wales back row.
For his "Own personal battle" with Wales 7 and captain Warburton in his own back yard, job done.
Afraid not. You can make your own rose tinted narrative but the stats don't lie.
Robshaw alone made as many yards as the entire Wales back row.
Vunipola made more, and Haskell nearly double.
England back row made 4 times as much distance as their welsh counterparts, and usually took both flankers to tackle them leaving space outside for the likes of Watson and Joseph.
I've been accused of lots of things but never "rose tinted". The question you have to ask yourself is why and the answer lies with the front five. Many a time has a welsh backrow or back been given the blame for a good old fashioned rogering in the front five. Scrums, lineouts and mauls won it for England.
mistake above - Haskell nine tackles made one mised (only one all night by an England back row)
It will be interesting to see the NO 8 of the tournament.
Jordi Murphy 😉
I do think wales were very poor.
I think they were well contained. Chuffed for Burrell following the scathing (and undeserved) reports from the Racing Metro game. He was very good. I think Slade can really push Ford personally and it will be good for the team if he does.
I can also see a fair argument for Ashton coming back with a decent FH now playing.
The difference in the second half was mainly at the breakdown. It took England far too long to catch on the wales' aggressive approach, but they did and protected the ball well in the second half which turned the game.
WTF was 12trees doing? He was really good when he came on!
Jordi Murphy
The best 8 in this tournament is Parisse.
think they were well contained. Chuffed for Burrell following the scathing (and undeserved) reports from the Racing Metro game.
Burrell is a good player, Ford could become very special if he keeps improving, Kruis too. Remains to be seen if it was poor welsh play or good england play or a bit of both.
Thete's a joke here somewhere but I'm too crestfallen to make it.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31176748
AA - you've got it spot on there, bit of both.
sat watching the italy ireland game thinking how very scrappy it seems.
every time italy play, no matter who it is, the games ends up a scrappy mess.
why is this?
Because Italy have a game plan based on their strengths,a decent forward pack (different in union remember Ton) and try to force they other team into an arm wrestle. Trouble is that the pack is decent,rather than good,so it takes a while to chew through them so you can play.
France in red WTF 😯
Just back from the AJ Bell Stadium, Sale 38-Scarlets 3 which is nice, 6 tries to nil.
Poor Scarlets were treated to renditions of "Swing Low,Sweet Chariot" and "Shall We Shut The Roof For You?" 😆
The only Scarlets player who looked decent was the scrum-half/Captain Rhodri Williams (?) felt sorry for the poor bloke trying to carry the team on his own.
Anyway, Allez Les Bleus!!
Is Huget the new Ashton? Petulant little ***** 😆
Scotland look a little weak at the breakdown but class with ball in the backs. They need a bit more confidence to trust themselves and not rely on a snapped drop goal. France on the other hand look fairly average but equally you can sense the pure class simmering underneath and the few more gears they can easily step up.
Would love to see Scotland win!
Crikey the Cotter/Nicol orgasmatron commentary.
The Scots are looking very tired now
But we have an international rugby team again, and a set of backs!
So wales and italy the wooden spoon decider based on this weekends games?
Another victory earned in the piggies. Scotland do look very good when the backs get their hands on it. Not convinced Owens had his best game and France were getting away with a lot of skullduggery, but I think on balance France deserved it.
A deserved win for France, but on the plus side I'm more optimistic about this Scotland team than I've been since 1999. Great line breaking by Hogg, Bennett, and Russell. And some good work in the lineouts.
Fascinating Game, Scotland excellent Russell Dunbar Bennett Hogg looked outstanding. laidlaw played well as did J Gary they were unlucky at the breakdown which was ferocious but Nigel Owen was not great by his standards a couple of wayward throwins, the scrum was a real lottery. Scotland will be hard to beat and if can get the backs on the ball regularly.
France going for the power game and a real lack of creativity given the potential skill levels, the scrum versus England will be interesting.
Lopez was not MOM.....
Ireland struggled today, surprisingly really if they had played it wider ealier, . Italy have stagnated badly, the replacement backs looked far better T Allen looked sharp.
Good weekend overall, Italy wooden spoon Wales will have confidence shattered and internal division will rise, Scotland to improve and give the rest a scare, France Ireland England all will be close but I think England will be narrow winners.
Nobody looking brilliant so far. France made hard work of that. Two quick tries saved irish blushes.
Impressed by Hogg, he very nearly made the difference.
Who was that France 15? He was bloody huge!
I thought Scotland played the game with terrific ambition. They were undone by some poor basic errors at important times in the match.
Bad enough having to put up with Cotter/Nicol for 80 minutes but then, at the end, Nicol completely ignores the biggest turnaround in Scottish play for several years and bemoans the fact that it is "still a defeat."
It looks like Big Vern has got Scotland playing the right way. Just a shame that Maitland is missing as his support play and running lines would have fitted right in.
Mark Bennett looks great. Been following him since the U-20s and his sojourn with Clermont.
France 15 = South African
I think errors for Scotland were often due to the intensity of the tackling but there were things they will improve on, graet improvement on the dire efforts of a couple of season age.
Hogg is one fine player, No 15 of the tournament Hogg or Brown or 1/2p?
Personally I thought England looked massively impressive, outstanding pack, looking better in the backs with creativity and pace, good quality subs to come on ( this I think will decide the tournament players from the bench, Scots are weak in depth as do Wales, France subs looked slow to get to game ) most importantly they looked mentally strong and prepared, little or no panic through the game when behind.
edit Chris ashton should never play for England again, far better alternatives who can attack AND defend.
France 15 = South African
Ah. I kept thinking "why is that flanker doing the kicking?"
Two quick tries saved irish blushes.
They perhaps put a better look on the final score, but saved our blushes, no.
While we didn't play to our potential we dominated the game and won well. Our scrum and line out were excellent, our defence solid and the 6N debutants all stood up well. Our breakdown work however was slow and we need quicker ball to do more damage in the wider channels.
Remember that our 7,8,10, 12 and 13 were making their first 6N starts and our centres have only had one match together in the autumn. Next weekend we will have Healy, Heaslip and SOB back in the pack and Sexton as well.
Who was that France 15? He was bloody huge!
Spent most of his afternoon running in to props too!
Hardly convincing to a neutral, blind melon.
And compared to england, that irish team is hugely experienced and considering they mostly come from 2 or 3 teams, they know each other a lot better too. At present, I'd put money on England and Wales beating them.
I wouldnt put money on Wales beating an egg.
I wouldnt put money on Wales beating an egg.
Cheer up! You probably can't play any worse.....
North's head injuries are being investigated which is good news. It turns out Lee was also replaced due to concussion. Biggar wasn't quite right after his smack either 😕 Day of head injuries for Wales unfortunately. All we can see is that Melon lived up to his name
AA, don't beat yourself up, just came up against a better side !!! 😉 still all to play for and you boys know how to do it from here.
Appreciate it's the Torygraphy but Geechs has a different view on the back row and Haskell in particular. Worth a read...
His excellence wad epitomised by missing the tackle on Faletau for the wales try!! ****ing Telegraph.....
Yes, 😀 what does Geechs know, eh!!!!!
Good article and pretty spot on especially
It was interesting because early on Haskell should have made the tackle on Taulupe Faletau when Wales scored their try through Rhys Webb. He will have known that and he will have been very disappointed. But, crucially, he did not let it affect him. He did not go into his shell nor did he try to do something individually spectacular to atone for that error.
and the change from Brand Haskall to Brand England.
Ex Wasp Geech praising a wasp captain who would have thunk it. Haskels fine attributes came into play in the second half when the fat lads in front got even more on top.
im more armchair than any of you... but as a Welsh fan do you think Gatland is that strict on players they're too scared to go...
"**** this theres a gap im going for it as plan A is not working"?
only liam williams and 1/2p seemed to be up for it.
Didnt see any gaps though did they. England defended well and the welsh backz got no front foot ball against a disorganised defence.
As an aside and without wanting to cause a shit storm what do people think of Attwood kicking North in the head. It was an accident for sure but shouldnt the kicker have a duty of care about where they put their boots. Bit like an accidental tip tackle or hitting a player in the air? Reminded me of this, with added comedy irish man!!
It was an accident for sure
Enough said, he is not Diego Costa 😀
Plenty of other examples of where an accidental mistake can bring a yellow or whatever. How about the Oconnel one above. Accident? Play on?
POC was dozy/naughty on that one and could have avoided it rel easily.
But the commentary was good though, thanks!
No need to nit pick on the details, handling in the scrum will be next!! 😉
From one Lions man to another, what did Wazzer think...
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-wales-v-england-8597890
1:29
" I thought Haskell was absolutely outstanding today...."
Was that just more WRU mind games?
I havent said Haskel wasnt good but he wasnt the reason England won.
AA good question re Atwood.........Atwood went for the ball North brave dive then collision with boot, end of based mainly on the speed involved there is some delay on POC offence and he could have forseen the consequences.
For Wales though was it really 21 missed tackles and if so was that a record in the GAt years?
Edit Well done to Wales Women for their Victory
Small beer content 😆
Wales under 20's and Wales women win
Happy we managed to win something even if we lost the main event.
