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Thinking about going back to study, for some reason Engineering seems to appeal to me... wouldn't mind taking a look at a few text books to start to get a gist for what it's like as a course...
Not an engineering student myself but a few of my friends are and I think you'll need to be a bit more specific. Lots of different engineering courses in lots of different areas. Civil engineering and aeronautical engineering would need different books for a start!
I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly 😳 ) that first year is fairly general?
Again something that would depend on your course!
The only thing that has seemed fairly consistent is the worrying amount of maths that my friends have been doing. (Especially the aeronautical engineer).
first year for areas such as civil, material, mechanical, electrical, control, biomedical and so on are massively different. But, Advanced Mathematics by K.A. Stroud is referenced quite a lot.
Electrical-Electronic
Software
Mechanical
Civil
Chemical
The list goes on.
The only common dominators are generally engineering mathematics and scientific method.
I'm not sure that "engineering mathematics" by Ken Stroud (and its competitors) make easy reading without the support lectures.
B^gger
17 seconds too slow!
Ah, Stroud - aka "the big boy's book of maths". Classic.
Seem easy enough reading for me, or rather they're excellent references for brushing up on unfamiliar mathematical technique. If you struggle to get your teeth into maths, you're probably not onto a winner with an engineering degree!
EDIT: and rather than books, I'd be getting on a few uni websites and getting course notes for first year courses to look at. Normally easy enough to find, as the students need to be able to get at them.
With reference to the easy reading of Stroud's collected works.....
They are excellent books, which lay all the techniques out in a logical, consistant manner.
My problem with them is (and it is 25 years since I graduated, so I may have a different perspective to some on this) is that though the techniques are explained in absolute clarity, the uses for the techniques and the hard core maths behind them are not as well explained.
Hence I think they are much better when combined with a lecture/tutorial system, than as stand alone guides.
An example of this may be the treatment of complex numbers, which has to cover all disciplines, but may be taught with a much greater emphasis to electrical engineers than chemical engineers. The support lectures (should) add emphasis and clarity to Stroud's mechanistic approach.
Too much beer makes this sound more pompous then I mean. Lectures add focus and usage to his excellent texts.
I'm in the 3rd year of a Civil Engineering degree. Books I can see from were I type:
Mathematics for Engineers - Croft Davidson
Structural and Stress Analysis - Megson
Understanding Hydraulics - Hamill
You need to like maths, or at the very least be able to plough through a lot of maths with a distant goal in mind..........
LabWormy - I'd agree with all that. I use/used them just as reference material when I knew what I was doing/wanted to do and just needed to brush up on technique or check a method.
The course @ Exeter is common for 1st yr Mech/Civil/Elec.
Look @ Stroud (incl. advanced) for maths, Gere + Timoshenko (Solid Mech), Douglas Gasiorek and Swaffield (??) (Fluid Mechanics) and Ashby for Materials. There may be also be books about electronics...
The biggest thing I learnt from doing my MEng is that (mechanical at least) engineering should really be called 'Applied Mathematics'.
Not a bad thing per say, but make sure you're ok at maths first!
Dundee is common 1st year for cival /mech /electrical/physics
engineering maths - croft and davidson
Engineering design - shigley
University physics by - some folk
Only 3 text books i ever bought for 4 years..... Beng hons in mech eng ....
Ah... Maths for Engineers. We did that self-paced which actually meant I did the course in 2 weeks at the end of term.
If you're half way confident with higher level maths first year will be a piece of piss, I wouldn't worry about doing anything over and above that.
Only 3 text books i ever bought for 4 years..... Beng hons in mech eng ....
I see your three books bought and raise you... No books bought! That's what the library is for.
Some titles I remember from first year (Mechanical Engineering):
Mechanics of Engineering Materials (actually a structural mechanics book primarily, rather than materials science)
Fluid Mechanics by Gasiorek and Swafield as above (this was never a course book, but has to be the best Fluid Mechanics reference around)
Damn, it's been longer than I thought - I can picture all the covers but can't remember the titles!
As above, be good at maths. If you're not, get good or save yourself some heartache and don't start! Mech Eng isn't totally mad on maths (compared to, say, some electronic stuff or really detailed aerodynamics) but your algebra and calculus has to be really solid - if you didn't get an A at A-level / higher / whatever then you're going to struggle.
Cheers for all the comments chaps, I suspected STW might have a few engineers with thoughts to offer 😉
but make sure you're ok at maths first!
it's been a while since I touched maths at all tbh... I did do Maths A (the 'hardest' maths on offer), Physics and Chemistry at school; I passed these with little to no real effort, could've done a lot better if I'd actually put my mind to it I'm sure, same with all my education really! 😳 😆 This was 15 years ago though, I'm 33 now 😯
EDIT: and rather than books, I'd be getting on a few uni websites and getting course notes for first year courses to look at. Normally easy enough to find, as the students need to be able to get at them.
A bit of googling isn't finding much... wouldn't course notes and the like be in 'student only' (ie. password protected) areas?
I think what I want to do is have a sneak peak at just what's involved in first year, basically have a bit of a go at it without actually enrolling just yet... I need to see if I can do it before committing!
Get [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meriam-Engineering-Mechanics-Statics-Version/dp/0471787027/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269160869&sr=8-1 ]this Statics book[/url] and the equivalent Dynamics one. They're fairly basic but would give a very good idea of what's involved in first year Mechanical Engineering.
As above, be good at maths. If you're not, get good or save yourself some heartache and don't start! Mech Eng isn't totally mad on maths (compared to, say, some electronic stuff or really detailed aerodynamics) but your algebra and calculus has to be really solid - if you didn't get an A at A-level / higher / whatever then you're going to struggle.
Well put... I got a C in A Level maths, and in the pure maths modules I got 35% overall in the first year, 36% in the second years. As I pointed out to my tutor, I was showing improvement 😀
Thankfully, I managed to balance that out by being quite good at the rest of it, and the actual application of said maths, so managed to get a decent 2:1 at the end of the fun and games!
One good thing about engineering tho, is that if you move away from engineering as I've done, you're treated as some kind of maths god if you can solve a simultaneous equation.
Psychle, I was in a similar situation to you!
I'm in my 4th year of my Mechanical Engineering degree having started it at the age of 32. I did a uni Access Course in maths and physics two evenings a week before commencing the full time course to brush up on the fundamentals as it had been 15 years since I'd done any at school.
I think I may have struggled going straight into the course without doing the Access, as mentioned above many subjects in 1st year are pretty maths intensive, but with this preparation I found 1st and 2nd years to be pretty straight forward.
got a copy of Stroud - Engineering Mathematics if you like, but postage isn't going to be the cheap!
might have a few other engineering text books sitting about??
Sounds like you would be best having a chat with the Open Uni. There are plenty of people in your position that find the OU suits them.
Stoud is worth its weight in gold. Much better than any lecture/tutorial set as each book is subdivided into several hundred mini lessons so you can work through 5 or 6 just while wour waiting for your toast to brown in the morning. First years with Stroud pass, first years without it fail, its (almost) as simple as that. The advanced course isn't aplicable to all diciplines. I didn't do it.
Other than that the only university that does a joint first year (and consequently less in depth 2nd, 3rd and 4th years) is Cambridge (IIRC).
Both pre first year reading for undergrads at Cambridge (your given the list before the interview and expected to have read at least some of them. TBH I still read their books as they're more interesting than most paperbacks and still really easy to read as theres little/no maths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Petroski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.E._Gordon
On a side note, old editions of Stroud sell for peanuts and are 1/4 the size of the new ones (A5, 2" thick). The first book misses out 1 chapter I think and the new eddition just prints on bigger pages (its almost A4 and 4" thick!!).
Save your back and wallet and buy earlier edditions. Same goes for most textbooks. If the course coveres something excluded form the old eddition, just book it out the library in advance of that week.
Indeed for most of the good institutions you're going to be looking at tailored first years rather than a universal first year. Your maths and physics are the important areas but if you're any good with maths you probably won't need to worry in too much detail about books and pre-reading. I did maths and further maths (later dropping the further maths) A levels and found the first year was basically just re-reading the A level and adding a few bits of extra calculus.
But don't waste cash on textbooks until you find out which ones the lecturers recommend - its pointless working from a different page with different notation/nomenclature - it makes life additionally difficult. Mst decent universities will have 10+ copies of the required texts anyway, as soon as you get the module pack reserve the books and you'll be fine.
I bought 2 texts in a 4 year M.Eng course and came out with a 1st, having only read one chapter of one of the books (but absorbed the other almost totally). The rest came from the library as and when they were needed.
I only bought 2 books for my Electronic Systems and Control Engineering course - the ever present (it seems) Stroud book and an electronics one by Sedra & Smith. I think they're in the loft somewhere - I might dig them out later and take a look. I got by with the library/sharing for all the other texts.
Sounds like you would be best having a chat with the Open Uni. There are plenty of people in your position that find the OU suits them.
I'm lucky enough (at the moment) in that my wife earns enough for me to consider a proper return to full-time study, no commitments (kids/mortgage etc) is another plus, along with a good rent deal in London through a friend... all in all not to shabby a spot to be in.
What I need to do (asap really!) is figure out what I want to study, engineering appeals as I quite like science, was quite good at it at school (with little/no effort) and I constantly find myself looking at things and wondering how they work... I enjoy solving problems and using technology and gadgets, so I reckon it'll suit me, though I have limited experience with it!
Look for one of the hybrid courses (combinations of mech and elec) if you're looking out of interest. If you're looking for a job it seems to be a little more difficult - some people value the combined knowledge of someone with knowledge of mech and elec, but some want a specific one-area knowledge, mech or elec.
As others have said, the days of the common 1st and 2nd years are going/have gone. I sit on the Industrial Advisory Board for Mech Eng dept and Bristol and the general move to 'Schools' rather than a complete Faculties, combined with the generally poorer grasp of maths by successive intakes has meant that the courses are specialising earlier and earlier in order drag everyone through in four years. Even 10-15 years ago when I did my first degree, the first 2 years were common and you then got to choose what specialisaion you were going to follow, regardless of what course you nominally enrolled with. IMO, it's a change for the worse, but does the reflect the needs of the students, university and employers.
The 'Basic' and 'Advanced' Stroud books were known as the 'Old Testament' and 'New Testament' in our house back then....
go buy some books from Oxfam. Every now and again i see a selection from my reading list at my local.
PS if you don't like the maths too much, think about Material Science/ Engineering. I got 96% for my first year maths, which didn't scare me off maths for the rest of the course. I'm going to be doing some finite element modelling of human skin this summer (and that's pretty maths rich)
Ha ha, all in agreement for once!
ALL of the top 10% of students here at the end of the first year are your typical further maths bods. There is essentially (at least for years 1-3) nothing to be gained from being mechanically minded really. Most (if not all) exams are mathematical based... And mathematical students tend to do best.
Another vote for stroud. Also get yourself an engineering data book and start looking at the applications of some of the equations within.
Do a Physics degree, it is fundamental to so much and it is interesting.
I have thought about Physics... but that's even more maths based isn't it? I don't really want to get bogged down in theory and stuck in a lab, for some reason that's the image I have of Physics (rightly or wrongly!).
When I did my Mech Eng degree back in '99 i found the maths, and the whole course, in year 1 easier than A levels (maths, physics and B.S.).
Years 2 and 3 however raised the bar though and I especially found the 2nd year difficult. I came out with a good old desmond in the end.
To what extent the social side of things distracted me is up for debate but I think if I went back now I'd do a lot better.
If I was doing it again I think I would do a sandwich course with a year in industry. You get some experience with an engineering workplace that should help with a job at the end and you might find the industry/company you like or know where not to work!
I have thought about Physics... but that's even more maths based isn't it? I don't really want to get bogged down in theory and stuck in a lab, for some reason that's the image I have of Physics (rightly or wrongly!).
Indeed, it's primarily theory based, especially at degree level you're no longer looking at "ooh, cool experiment" you're looking at maths again. Some excellent applications of it, but generally putting them to use is the world of a research engineer, who doesn't care for the exact details of the physics.
Yes fair point, physics is lots of maths.
Lord Saville the man leading the Bloody Sunday inquiry allegedly never went to lectures when an undergraduate but won some prize or other for being brilliant. He just read lots of books so you could be on the right track asking about books.
Have a look at: The New Science of Strong Materials: Or Why You Don't Fall Through the Floor by JE Gordon
If you're worried about any subject being 'too much' maths. then mech eng isnt for you...
well, it's not the 'too much maths' thing, it's more the 'stuck in a lab playing with theory' thing... I want to be outside getting my hands dirty, and if this can be done whilst taxing my brain at the same time, then all the better... I'm sick and tired of not living to my potential, it's doing my head in now... I know I'm intelligent, I can understand pretty much anything when I put my mind to it... I'm 33 now, if I keep going like this (just coasting through life), what a waste (I'm now realising, must be a product of getting older 😆 )...
[i]Have a look at: The New Science of Strong Materials: Or Why You Don't Fall Through the Floor by JE Gordon [/i]
Another shout for JE Gordons book.
again mate. a mech eng course at a proper uni wont be particualryl hands on.
if you want to do engineering as you like engines, taking things apart etc, then look elsewhere!
well, it's not the 'too much maths' thing, it's more the 'stuck in a lab playing with theory' thing... I want to be outside getting my hands dirty, and if this can be done whilst taxing my brain at the same time, then all the better... I'm sick and tired of not living to my potential, it's doing my head in now
What Tracknicko said ^^^^
It sounds like your expectation of what jobs an engineering degree might lead to and the reality of the typical career path for a new grad, say, mech eng are pretty much at odds.
but 'eventually' it could lead to more hands-on stuff right? I'm hopeless with engines TBH, but I do like challenges and problem solving... everything I read about engineering sounds like it'd suit me well, for some reason it's got me interested anyway... shall take a read of JE Gordons book to get a feel for some of the subject, should be a start anyway...
sorry dude. there's two reasons we lose 15% or so of first years at the end of the 1st year.
1) cant keep up with all the maths and fail
2) didn't realise how maths/theoretical it was and leave as it's 'boring'
where're you based Tracknicko? Sound's like you're at a Uni?
Civil engineers maximise the use of nature’s resources to the benefit of mankind. Today, heightened concern about the protection of the environment means that civil engineers are very much involved in minimising the impact on the environment of construction and development projects, and in controlling pollution. Civil engineering covers a wide variety of activities. These range from projects in the Third World such as water supplies, irrigation, pollution control, roads and bridges, to major projects in the UK such as the 2012 Olympic sites and Battersea developments. Civil engineers also play a key role in the drive for the regeneration of inner cities and areas of urban decay. There are many opportunities for working abroad, and engineering projects can often make a major contribution to a country’s social and economic wellbeing.
From Imperial College's website... all sounds pretty good to me, though I do get that there's a lot of maths behind it all, but it's 'real' maths, not theoretical mumbo jumbo, right?
In the town of your current world champ doing a PhD in engineering - hence my overactivity on biking forums...
I'm Australian... 😉
he's everyone's world champ baby!
Yeah, but that's a website 😉
Unless you can land on your feet in a small company where you can get your fingers in lots of pies, the reality will be that as a new grad in a large company you will expected to do some pretty noddy stuff, non client facing, in an office for a quite a while. The reality is that the skills you get from your degree are in helping the design process through calculation - most of the hands on stuff will be done through technicians in a company/contractors on site and you supervise what they do...... if you actually want to do and make stuff, then look into becoming a technician.
Having an engineering degree means that you get to sit in meetings and listen to people disscusing seriously dull dull dull ........ nonsense that has nothing to do with anything. The qualification means that its your signature that goes on the reports, so that you can be blamed when things go wrong.
You might want to consider an advanced modern apprenticeship in something. The guys at HOPE, for example, did their apprenticeship tool making at Rolls-Royce. It is hands on and it is a first rung on the ladder to further opportunities.
How about Physics and Astronomy? The astronomers did lots of practical observation and the maths in the astronomy lectures was never very hard. Could very much depend on what facilities the dept. has though. While I was in the first of my physics course we had to do extra maths because even 12 yrs ago A-level maths didn't get us up to the required standard. Uni was very friendly and I found there was always lots of help available.
I've an engineering degree from an old uni (late 90s).
It was very theoretical and maths-intensive. It may have been an age thing, but despite being fairly capable, inquisitive and interested in technical things, to be quite honest, I didn't enjoy the course much at all. I did pick up a lot of information and various concepts, but I didn't like the very academic way that the course was implemented.
FWIW, I'm still a fan of [b]Engineering[/b], but have never found an engineering job I'm that happy with -I'm certainly not fulfilling my potential.
As above, there are a lot of meetings and documentation.
From what I've seen, Site Engineers on construction projects seem to have jobs that keep them busy, but a lot of hassle when progress slips.
-If I was you (or if I had my time again), I'd do medicine instead.
One thing worth considering is Computer Science. Some people argue it is engineering, some argue it is science, but it doesn't really matter.
In the modern world, probably way more of what makes things happen is actually in software than building hardware. Even crazy things like camera lenses have a chip running some software in them. An electrical engineering degree will teach you lots of programming, and a load of stuff about electricity, whereas on a CS degree, you learn all about computer based problem solving in depth. Personally I think most of the more interesting problems involving tinkering with software rather than hardware.
Like engineering, there are lots of boring jobs you can go into after a CS degree, but there are also cool things that require programming.
At the moment, I am messing around with [url= http://www.mrl.nott.ac.uk/~jqm/blog/?p=373 ]automated ride systems[/url] at work. They are cool in a big machinery way. The engineering element is pretty much a solved problem (some clever engineers put some big motors together, and make a control panel with lots of safety limits on, we hook some actuators on to the control panel), whereas the ride automation stuff we're looking at is purely software, and no one has done it before.
Computer science is a bit mathsy, and being good at maths really helps you be good at programming, but to be honest I reckon on most CS courses the maths is way less hard than engineering maths.
Joe
I did Aeronautics in the early 90's (now I feel old) and it was all maths, maths, and more maths. There were labs, of course, but even there the focus was on data collection and then doing the maths on the results...
I now work in IT, I probably should have done Computer Science instead 🙂