[Closed] Spousal Maintenance?

Really sorry to hear that. Having been there, its no fun.

If I could give you any advice it would be to concentrate on looking after yourself. If you're stressed already, then this will add a massive burden to you. You have to be careful you deal with that properly. Get help if its getting on top. Theres no shame in that. If you have to reconsider jobs etc, then do it.

And just concentrate on maintaining your relationship with your daughter. Thats the important stuff. What really matters. Kids are resilient little buggers. They just need to know they're loved.

But I'm afraid, as a bloke, the old adage about marriage and subsequent divorce applies: find someone you like, and buy them a house.

Good luck!

I feel your pain, my sister is going through a similar messy divorce. Your circumstances are very similar - he's on the big salary, large inheritance, etc, she's earning enough to get by. Tow kids but older.

[i]To summarize it seems that I will be given less than her from the split despite having contributed 99% of the wealth to the marriage and face a lifetime of working a stressful 60 hour a week job whilst she can live a life of leisure not needing to work and potentially inheriting a tidy sum[/i]

Have a think about your wife's contribution to your partnership that enabled you to progress in your career.

a friend described divorce as Latin for the removal of a mans testicles through his wallet - or was that the other way round

[i]We have a daughter aged 8 and she has a son aged 17[/i]
I'd find her time travel machine and flog that on ebay to raise funds.

Negotiate through lawyers for an agreeable maintenance figure. If she won't budge;

I have a well paid job which involves lots of travel

Financially this is the way things often go - my BiL was in an almost identical position... IANAL but I think he avoided anything more than 50/50 by going for shared custody. He was able to hold on to his pension and also doesn't pay maintenance due to the shared custody I think. He does however cover all his sons costs apart from food whilst he at his mums so buys all his clothes, school meals, after school clubs etc..

The question has to be asked - have you both really tried to make it work, involving Relate for professional guidance? Has your stressful job contributed to this situation?

Edit: I could berate you for some of your unpleasant comments but am certain somebody else will.

Your asking the wrong people. Get a very good lawyer your playing with a lot of money at risk. It's worth the money. I have been there

By law (in Scotland but I think is UK wide, for now) you have to pay 22% of net income less a factor for share custody, so I pay 22% less 1/3 because I have my two kids 1/3 of the time over any 4 weeks. I have friends who share custody 50/50 and no maintenance is required.

try here - https://www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends

Good luck and try to keep things civil. No matter how hard, and +1 to getting a good lawyer.

If you have the wealth you describe I would suggest you pay a really good matrimonial lawyer for accurate advise it will save you a fortune .
Most divorce splits aim for a clean break not lifelong maintenance. Children maintained till 18.
I am a lawyer but have neither the specialist knowledge or insurance cover to advise you further . the internet is often wrong or incomplete in it's advise .
Sorry you are in this position.

advise

I hope you get your secretary to spellcheck your documentation 😉

Thanks for the responses.

I still love my wife and do want to try and save the relationship but have to consider practicalities and this spousal maintenance thing was a shock.

I expected a fair division of assets and to pay generous child maintenance but the concept of paying my wife almost half my income for the rest of my life was unexpected.

As recommended I will consult a lawyer specializing in family law.

"I hope you get your secretary to spellcheck your documentation "

Not only that I tend not to do paying work on a mobile phone while engaged in other activities.

Plus my public work is mostly presented orally.

Unfortunately it seems as I my wife and I may be divorcing. We have lived together for nine years but have only been married for just over a year.

We have a daughter aged 8 and she has a son aged 17 who has no contact or support from his father and who I have effectively treated as my own and paid for since we got together.

I have a well paid job which involves lots of travel and is pretty stressful. She has not worked since our daughter was born and before that worked part time in a minimum wage care type job. She has no profession and so her earning capability would realistically be limited to shop or care work paying minimum wage.

She has suggested a 60/40 split of assets in her favour which would allow her to purchase a house with no mortgage. This would not be the case for me - maybe I could get a two bed flat with my share.

In terms of financial contribution to the marriage I have supplied the vast majority (99%) including my inheritance from my parents. Her parents are still alive but in their 70s and have had health issues (cancer and heart bypass) so she will probably inherit £250k within the next ten years (I do not wish them ill and would be happy in they lived long lives).

I have been looking at various resources such as the calculator on wikivorce and have been shocked to find that I may have to pay spousal maintenance of approximately 45% of my net income to my wife until she either re-marries or one of us dies.

This would be far more than she could earn herself working full time in a minimum wage job so logically there is no reason why she should get a job despite being able to work subject to childcare needs.

I she did start a new relationship the loss of maintenance would be a compelling reason for them not to marry.

To summarize it seems that I will be given less than her from the split despite having contributed 99% of the wealth to the marriage and face a lifetime of working a stressful 60 hour a week job whilst she can live a life of leisure not needing to work and potentially inheriting a tidy sum.

For the record I am 100% committed to providing for my daughter and feel 20% of my net income until she is 18 would be reasonable maintenance. I would also want to support my stepson whilst he is in education including (hopefully) university.

Is my understanding of spousal maintenance accurate or am I being misled by these web sites?

One of the major reasons for our problems is the stress caused my job. This will only get worse if we do divorce and I do not know if I have the capability to carry on with it.

HOLY COW!!!!!!!! 😯

Over half your income, whether you earn loads or not that still sucks. Boy am I glad my wife earns way more than me!!

and she has a son aged 17 who has no contact or support from his father

Shows that there are ways to avoid your responsibilties, if you know how and you are a really second rate human being.

OP, sorry to hear. Sharing this isn't easy so I am glad you have had the strength to do it, it will help. Get some friends around you, these are tough times you will need them. I am finally coming to the end of my divorce and associated financial settlement. Still have some bad days but I can look mostly forward now.

You need to get some proper legal advice. The following is my view experience, I am just trying to be honest, this may make tough reading.

I tried some of the online calculators but they where all over the place, not worth much IMO

Together 10 years, married 1. The court will likely decide to treat this as a 10 year relationship / "marriage" given you have a kid together

Maintenenace. Yup a nightmare. My kids are grown up and long gone but I (and you) am still liable for ongoing maintenance if the court decides the ex cannot support herself. The court can award a 60/40 and maintenance if the 60 is what the ex needs to buy a family house. As the kids will likely stay with the ex you don't need a family house (ie big) and as you are working you can afford a mortgage.

The court would look at your needs, monthly expenses etc, and hers plus relative incomes and make a decision. My ex had all sorts of rubbish like sports club memberships, expensive christmas, £500 a year for handbags etc ... Effectively she was entitled to a certain lifestyle which she could never have provided for herself but I could and she become "used to / entitled" to it.

Where you may have some better news is regarding your inheritance and how that is treated, this may get carved out in part, depends upon the numbers. However if your wife's parents are in reasonable health the court is unlikely to take into consideration an uncertain inheritance some way off (eg her parents may need the money for healthcare and so there could be not a lot left).

I appreciate and respect you integrety for wanting to support your stepson, you may wish to rethink that based upon some of the split/maint payments, you may not be able to afford to without material impact on yourself. If you wife gets maint she can spend some of that on him. This is all very difficult and a total s**tshow but sadly that's how it is.

Pensions, I had saved quite a bit over 30 years, the ex got a bit more than half of all of that too. There was at one point a discussion about her getting much more as I could work till 65+ to replace the money given to her. Fortunately that was thrown out.

If you can progress this via discussion (informed by lawyer) or mediation that would be best. The ex and I spent £50k on solicitors/barristers/court. A very sobering number.

I hope things work out for you, perhaps its possible to save the relationship. I tried for 10 years and don't regret that as it meant I could stay with my kids full time but it was unsuccessful and certainly financially much worse than an earlier break.

email in profile if you want to get in touch

You could buy her parents a sky diving red letter day for Christmas this year?

Right that's decided it; there is no way the wife is giving up work.

Cletus - Member
... or one of us dies.

😉

just when i seem to be coming round to the idea of getting married... cheers!

[i]Plus my public work is mostly presented orally.[/i]

S****

just when i seem to be coming round to the idea of getting married... cheers!

if the prospect of divorce is putting you off being married then I'd say they aren't the one...

if the prospect of divorce is putting you off being married then I'd say they aren't the one...

I'm pretty sure mine is the one, but this thread has still put the shits up me even though I hope never to avail of its sobering advice 😯

[img] [/img]

😀

France has legally binding pre-nups. From what I know ongoing maint for an ex is unusual, children yes, wife no. Different places have different rules, the UK is very wife friendly. People with significant inheritances to pass to their children often put it in a trust as it avoids half (or more) of the lump sum being taken in a divorce. It's reality that thinking about the risk of divorce and settlement should be more prevalent for most of us than it is in practice.

Right that's decided it; there is no way the wife is giving up work.

Talking about France, if all else fails there's always.....

[img] [/img]

@Tom I was expecting a picture of a guillotine 🙂

Different places have different rules, the UK is very wife friendly.

Said with characteristic understatement jambalaya. And that's not just financially. If it ever comes to access to the kids, its then you discover that as a divorced bloke, you have absolutely no rights whatsoever. A state of affairs which can then be used as a weapon against you, to ratchet up the financial settlement. I have 2 mates who've been absolutely taken to the cleaners by ex-wives just to get access to their children

AS others have said get proper legal advice - I would guess that as a short marriage (1 year) then the maintenance for wife should be much lower than 45%.
As your daughter is 8 your wife can work.

As others have said consult a divorce lawyer first - then try mediation (as this will be cheaper).

Said with characteristic understatement jambalaya. And that's not just financially. If it ever comes to access to the kids, its then you discover that as a divorced bloke, you have absolutely no rights whatsoever. A state of affairs which can then be used as a weapon against you, to ratchet up the financial settlement. I have 2 mates who've been absolutely taken to the cleaners by ex-wives just to get access to their children

I'm so consumed with bitterness and indignity I cannot speak freely 🙁 I seem to vary between being accused of understatement, and a nazi being worthy of a punch in the face (thread dependent).

just when i seem to be coming round to the idea of getting married... cheers!

That made me feel better, only joking (kind of) of course 8)

I still love my wife and do want to try and save the relationship but have to consider practicalities and this spousal maintenance thing was a shock.

Sorry, I don't understand this. Would it not be better on concentrating your efforts on making the relationship work instead of digging around trying to find out whether or not you'll be hit financially?

Which of you has mentioned divorce?

Some sad stories here. 😐 Life's too short to be bitter (I do understand this having been fleeced) but would rather concentrate my efforts on looking forward and rebuilding my life.

Its the the internetz fella. Don't expect consistency. Would an understated nazi be a maybe a sergeant in the wehrmacht, compared to the full blown SS stormtrooper? 😉

But regarding access to kids. A good mate of mine has spent the kind of money you've shelled out on legal fees to get access to his kids (I know irs upwards of 30 grand!). Its been going on for years. He goes to court, they order her to let him see his kids, they leave court, she immediately tells him theres no way she's letting him see her kids......

repeat to fade.

Its tragic. He loves his kids. He's paying a fortune in maintenance as she's never worked a day in her life, but expects to be kept in the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed. And then she carries on with these games year after year. I just can't imagine being in that position. It'd destroy me! 😥

Sorry for rambling on about that. But just trying to give a bit of perspective. The money isn't really that important, when compared to the stuff that really matters

I'm still amazed men in the UK choose to get married i.e. not at gunpoint.

I'm still amazed women in the UK choose to get married i.e. not at gunpoint.

FIFY

I never imagined the Spousal Maintenance would apply in England, presumed it was just in America. I've always been quite clear with the other half about not wanting to get married, this confirms it.

But regarding access to kids. A good mate of mine has spent the kind of money you've shelled out on legal fees to get access to his kids (I know irs upwards of 30 grand!). Its been going on for years. He goes to court, they order her to let him see his kids, they leave court, she immediately tells him theres no way she's letting him see her kids......

Sorry to hear this mate, sounds like a properly sh1t place to be.

However, you say ...

One of the major reasons for our problems is the stress caused my job. This will only get worse if we do divorce and I do not know if I have the capability to carry on with it.

... which makes me wonder if you can re-evaluate your job/career if you and your wife feel your relationship/family is strong enough to have another go.

She has been the primary carer of your daughter for 8 years, which has allowed you to do the job you have.
I see nothing wrong with her wanting her share of your combined assets and maintenance.

Don't forget she should be getting half your pension as well.

I wonder how many married men would still marry if had their time again. Some for sure.

My mate after getting divorced refused to marry his new girlfriend and even had her paying rent to make it look like she wasn't a common law wife - not that it made any difference to anything I'm sure.

People tend to remarry but the divorce rates for second marriages do not make happy reading. I can't really work out how people can afford it all.

One "interesting" piece of advice given to me by a lawyer recently was around "choosing not to work" - kids both been at school for years, nursery before that - she "chose" not to work for the 6-8hrs a day she was free, did next to no housework as that was "weekend stuff" and "shared", did lunch with Bestie most days, hair done, coloured, etc.
Her "choosing" not to go to work cost her dearly as she couldn't play the "primary carer" card, etc.
She had every opportunity - including me helping her to set up her own "workshops" with Bestie, advertising, etc - but that was "too much" and "not enough interest to run them..." so that got canned.
As did any hope of her getting 60/40 or even 50/50 - as the main income, running 3 businesses, etc which she didn't contribute too - she couldn't ask for anything like the CAB said she could.
Get the BEST family lawyer you can - the rules are changing and quickly...

Thanks again for the replies especially jambalaya and spacemonkey.

I am still hopeful that we can have a reconciliation and am trying my best to work towards that but it would be foolish not to consider my financial position if we do split.

I do value the contribution that my wife has given during our relationship and think that her walking away with enough (60% of our assets) to have a nice, mortgage free house is a fair reward for this - her split would be far more than she would have earned if she had not met me and continued in the job she was doing when we met. I would also pay maintenance for my daughter whilst she remains in education.

I do not want to leave my wife struggling and so would be open to supporting her through a few years of retraining so that should could increase her earning potential.

I was just shocked by the notion that I would be liable to support her until she either re-marries or one of us dies. Unfortunately it seems that this is the case.

My wife has not mentioned spousal support and I am not sure she is even aware of it. She has talked about getting a job if we do split up and I do not anticipate any child access issues but who knows if lawyers get involved and things turn ugly.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered support.

I'm sure she'll be aware of it but doesn't want you to think she does. Probably so you see no need in getting a lawyer.

She lies.

I never understand why people get married these days. [s]Half[/s] all the people I know that have done it aren't religious. Do you get tax breaks or something?

She has been the primary carer of your daughter for 8 years, which has allowed you to do the job you have.
I see nothing wrong with her wanting her share of your combined assets and maintenance

Agreeing to fund someone you are not married to was never part of the deal

Imagine they have an affair and leave you and you still need to pay them !!

Marrage isn't the problem, having kids is!

My wife's fallback position in heated arguments was - 'I'll divorce you and take 1/2 your money'. My talk of trying to go for a win-win solution to disagreements never worked out.

I was married 5 years or just under. I never had to pay spousal maintenance due to the short time we'd been together. I'd hazard a guess at you just having to pay for your kids maintenance but it will mean putting a roof over there heads. She'll have to get a job to support herself, as not been together long enough to claim she's been accustomed to the financial situation. Please note that none of this is professional advice, just based on my personal experience.

@Cletus

Have you suggested going to councelling ? We tried that a few times and it didn't really help us but if you want to fix things getting some help (or a referee as I called the councellor is a good thing). Once again good luck.

I was just shocked by the notion that I would be liable to support her until she either re-marries or one of us dies. Unfortunately it seems that this is the case.

I never understand why people get married these days. Half all the people I know that have done it aren't religious. Do you get tax breaks or something?

Ooooooh jambalaya - that really is unfair! Please don't let your unfortunate experience cloud your way of thinking. Look forward not back, treat each day as a day nearer to a happier place and be at peace with yourself.

Firstly, if you want to save your marriage, do everything in your power to do that but it takes 2 to make or save a marriage.
That way hopefully you will have no regrets but know sometimes it isn't meant to be.
I would look at your work/life balance. You won't get any thanks when you are lying on your death bed for the hours you put in and I don't think many who have been in that position wish they had spent more time at work....
Don't underestimate the far reaching consequences of divorce either - they can be far worse than you can imagine.
Then if you are still decided on going down the divorce route try to do it as quickly and as amicably as possible....
You need to get away from %age splits as it's not that straightforward.
The courts will look at the welfare of the children as the utmost priority (rightly so). Who is "at fault" doesn't come into it as we can all be to blame to some extent.
The financial settlement is known as "ancilliary relief"
and includes for split of assets, property and financial provisions for each spouse and any children. If you can't agree this between you then the courts have the power to decide for you.
[b]Generally speaking[/b] they would try to maintain the level of lifestyle afforded before the split if there's enough money to go around but this isn't usually the case. If the children are to live mostly with the mother then that would in your situation would be to provide them with a 3 bedroom house (for example) i.e a bedroom each.
If they are to visit the father every other weekend then a 2 bedroom flat would be seen as sufficient.
The court will try to assess the finances as chucking it all into a big pot, paying all your bills etc to try to leave you with the same disposable income as each other at the end of each month.
If the mother isn't earning then you would have to carry on providing for her until such a time an adjustment would be considered by the court e.g she gets a job or co-habits with someone else.
Then there are assets, pensions etc that are also up for grabs.
Please don't be naïve in thinking that your wife doesn't know this as these decisions you make now could affect you for the rest of your life. By all means be fair and reasonable but get advice from a good family law solicitor. It's all a bloody nightmare and with the emotion and stress I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown on more than one occasion.....

[url= http://www.terry.co.uk/men_div.html ]Here is quite a good resource[/url]

@cg, I'm just having a very grumpy day and a thread like this is going to bring a few things back. I'm looking forward to having made a better choice second time around 😀

Sorry - only got a few minutes now (taking daughter to football) will try and post fully later.

Take a look at collaborative law, I used [url= http://www.divorcejigsaw.co.uk/ ]Liz at Divorce Jigsaw[/url] last year. She was recommended by my now ex-wife's solicitor and was brilliant. The welfare of our daughter was at the centre of everything.

We settled things in 3 face to face sessions, while managing to live in the same house. We now live 1 mile apart, have 50/50 childcare and get on better than we did in the last couple of years of a 10 year marriage. I pay maintenance that we both agreed was fair.

Advice would be:

Try and sort it out - we went to Relate and even though it didn't save our marriage, it worked - we got a much better end to the relationship.

Put the kids first

It seemed at every point someone is trying to turn it into a conflict that no-one wins - collaborative law avoided that.

A year ago I wouldn't have believed what I'm writing was possible.

Jambalaya - if it cheers you up (you grumpy old sod!) then I've just taken you, quite literally, as an inspiration! I didn't know what to cook tonight, but I've opted for a chorizo and prawn jambalaya. It's smelling bloody good! 😀

@Cletus

Hope I didn't sound flippant earlier, just wanted to mention collaborative law. I agree with everything numbnut posted. We both worked very hard to save our marriage, but we'd just grown too far apart. Relate helped us to work through that and get from a point where we were arguing a lot to re-establishing a friendship.

It was ex-smoggy who made the initial decision to separate and I continued to see the Relate counsellor on my own throughout the divorce. I now see that we are both happier than we were and more importantly our daughter feels loved and secure in both homes. We still attend some child related activities together and occasionally babysit for each other.

It was a horrible time for everyone, I realise how lucky I am that ex-smoggy and I managed to come to a truly amicable split. There were times when it was awful and got close to going to court, but we got through it and reached a settlement that we both thought was fair and valued each others contributions to the relationship.

ex-smoggy was entitled to spousal maintenance but elected to take it into account when our assets were split. I do pay maintenance for our daughter even though childcare is 50/50 as I'm the higher earner and it allows ex-smoggy to provide the same standard of living for our daughter at both homes.

Again I'm not trying to sound smug, flippant or advocate divorce. I wish we had spotted the problems in our relationship earlier so it hadn't come to this. I appreciate that everyone's situation is different. I sincerely hope you work things out, just trying to show that it is possible to come out the other side without hating each other. We both agree that the guidance from our lawyers was a key part of that.

Good luck!

spacemonkey - Member
Sorry to hear this mate, sounds like a properly sh1t place to be.

However, you say ...

One of the major reasons for our problems is the stress caused my job. This will only get worse if we do divorce and I do not know if I have the capability to carry on with it.
... which makes me wonder if you can re-evaluate your job/career if you and your wife feel your relationship/family is strong enough to have another go.