[Closed] Speed Awareness Course?

I dreaded going to mine. But it was much more interesting than I thought it'd be.

My wife's done two of them now, obviously the first one didn't work, and she reckons they're not too bad.

The first one it sounded like the instructor was a bit of a prat and the second one apparently half the group spent most of their time arguing with the instructor! Either way it's better than points on your license.

I've not been caught since I did the course for the second time so I say go for it

I found it strangely enjoyable. Mine was run, as I think a lot of them are, by AA Drivetech. Whole thing takes 4hrs. I had fancy mineral water and mint humbugs on my table.

There WILL be idiots you want to punch in the face there. Guaranteed.

Edit: Oh, and you're a monster etc etc

Worth doing. You might meet molgrips...

Done 2, the first one had some of the bitterest people I have ever sat in a room with!

Second one was better, there is some interesting stuff, nice touch was one bloke on the course admitting he is a driving instructor! 🙂

Luckily its not like this!

How much audience participation is required, out of interest? Could you just sit there and zone out into a fantasy world of rainbows and unicorns? Or would the instructor chuck a board rubber at you?

Worth doing. You might meet molgrips...

Was just reading my old speed awareness thread. Guess who said this:

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-had-the-need-for-speed-sadly-the-police-disagreed-36-in-a-30-content/page/4#post-4432677 ]Lol.. as if that makes any difference.

You may not agree with the rules, but they are still the rules, they are very very simple.[/url]

😀

How much audience participation is required, out of interest? Could you just sit there and zone out into a fantasy world of rainbows and unicorns? Or would the instructor chuck a board rubber at you?

You have to work in groups at one point, if I remember right, so you can't zone out all the time. Don't worry, there will be some know-it-all who will take up all the oxygen by constantly arguing.

Anyway, a bit of info about what to expect here: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/im-about-to-start-a-speed-awareness-course

Not much, last one they did a bit of putting you into small groups to come up with answers to questions together, like guessing how many people are hurt on different types of roads each year

You can zone out, its not school, and you can just go for a wee when you want!

All they ask is that you participate, there is no test

I found the one i did a few years ago tedious in the extreme, and as mentioned that was mostly down to a bunch of idiots with "It's un-fair" attitude.

Were i to have to do another one (I try not to speed but sometimes you get caught out) then i'd cycle there and sit through the whole thing in lycra just to annoy the idiots.

Waiting for my date to come through on mine.

I've done a couple over the years too 😳

Do it and PAY ATTENTION. My first one was full of arseholes who just wanted to moan about getting caught and all I wanted to do was escape. In the second one, many years later, the room actually listened and paid attention.

I did the one on Manchester (Trafford Park). One of the tutors was a sanctimonious **** of the highest order even reducing one of the younger female participants to tears.
I did the crime etc though.
I'd seriously consider taking the points if I was offered the same location (tutors) again though.

I think, as has been outlined above, it's a bit of a lottery what sort of 4hrs you have in store. If the tutors and participants are ok, then it passes quite quickly. Luckily, we only had one dude who thought he knew everything, and kept going 'but, but, but'. After a while I think he sensed everyone glaring at him, and he stopped.

I felt sorry for the poor translator, as one of the participants couldn't speak English, as they had to sit through it. Although, they were at least getting paid.

Very interesting stuff. Everyone should do one.............if they were half an hour long! After that, 3 1/2 hours of my life wasted.

I did one at Leyland. I did not find it a life-changing experience because the instructors were too silly and tried to be everybody's friend. I was even distracted by the gales of laughter coming from the course in the room next door. I have not changed my driving style except that I am even more alert for camera revenue vans.

STW should be given the franchise for speed awareness, 1/2 a day playing Grand Theft Auto on the PS4, beer and pizza.

Think of the knowledge we can pass on to all the cr#p drivers.

I did one at Leyland.

I did that one too.

My overriding impression was how dense some of the other candidates were. One woman confessed to recently knocking off a cyclist, her argument was that it was his own fault she didn't see him because was looking for cars, and she thought the whole situation was hilarious; another young lad explained that he didn't know any road signs beyond the six he'd learnt because he knew they were the ones on the test. Most of them didn't have the faintest clue what constituted a single / dual carriageway, and even when told many didn't know the limits on them.

Been on TWO courses?

Why not just get an upto date prescription and learn to drive better?

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Been on TWO courses?
Why not just get an upto date prescription and learn to drive better?

Are you the new molgrips?

Do the course. It is interesting/useful and the extra cost/day off is worth it to save the 3 points. This is based on feedback from others, I've been dinged twice for speeding in the last 30 years but the course option didn't exist then, I would certainly do it now.

I did one ages ago (It was £60, that long ago) at the Country Ground for Northants Cricket, it was awesome as there was a 4 day game on 😀

Edit - must have been 8-9 years ago and not a point since.

Been on TWO courses

Yes. over 3 years apart (has to be otherwise they dont offer it)

Once 34 in a 30, second 78 on the A3 dual carriageway hardly terrible driving is it? Can you really say you haven't done similar speeds?????

Any way i did the crime so i paid my debt to society.........

Worth doing. You might meet molgrips...

I feel really, really, sorry for whoever runs that class.

Are you the new molgrips?

Nah. Molgrips is far more subtle.

You may not agree with the rules, but they are still the rules, they are very very simple.

I stand by that. Since I was attempting to stick to them..!

And stop trying to wind me up Jamie 🙂

i learnt some stuff that i'd either never known or forgotten in the 'cramming for driving test' style learning bitd.

if you know it all already it'll be awful and you'll learn nothing. 😉

I noticed the other day that there are lots of streetlights closer than 183m in 40 limits, with repeaters on.

The repeaters overrule any other indicators

Are you the new molgrips?

No but I have to cycle on roads where people plainly have a lower sense of awareness etc. Slow down, you'll spot the signs/developing hazzards.

If you are caught by a camera its not scamming you. The cameras ontop of bridges on the M6 for instance- people complain about those- you can spot them a mile away FFS.

They tend to be painted yellow and even the mobile cameras - theres always a fixed sign a mile or so before warning you. If you ignore it or miss it- your own fault.

I aint on a high horse, I'm probably a better driver than some above and probably not as competent as some above also on this thread. I do wear glasses when driving though and I constantly check my surroundings.

[b]If you've been on TWO courses- don't you ****ing listen or learn? [/b]

But as per usual people who are 'caught' will attack and say 'oh get off your high horse'.

I love these threads. The instant assumption that the person speeding was driving dangerously. The assumption that they drive really dangerously all the time. It’s brilliant, really well balanced, well informed argument.

No but I have to cycle on roads …

… The cameras ontop of bridges on the M6 for instance

If you’re cycling on the M6, I think speed is the least of your worries.

The instant assumption that the person speeding was driving dangerously. The assumption that they drive really dangerously all the time.

That's not it at all.

I love these threads. The instant assumption that the person speeding was driving dangerously. The assumption that they drive really dangerously all the time. It’s brilliant, really well balanced, well informed argument.

It is dangerous if you don't have the ability to spot the fixed signs, the road hatchings, the big camera or the camera van. You lack awareness at your given speed.

If you drive through a fixed camera and say 'shit'! - it shows you aren't concentrating enough at that moment doesn't it?

If so, surely you need to drive a bit slower.

We all like to think we are good drivers. NONE of us are. I can improve. Anyone who thinks they are a good driver at speed is deluded.

[b]Having points or having to attend a course just hilights in black and white that obviously you driving fast really isn't safe of you. Twice and you aint learning. [/b]

There are so few Police on patrol nowadays that the possibility of being caught randomly has almost disappeared and drivers know they can break the law with impunity. However speed cameras and camera vans rely on drivers' stupidity and lack of observation to work so there's plenty of revenue coming in from them. The good driver is the one who observes and thinks and drives at the appropriate speed for the conditions and that includes being aware of the possibility of speed cameras. It's hardly difficult; the rules on the siting of cameras are very specific and they are always in stretches of road that are marked with big camera signs on poles.

That's not it at all.

What is it then? I've read a bunch of posts about the course and then the predictable ranty post about having to ride on the road and it's your own fault for being caught speeding. With a heathy implication of if you’re speeding you’re driving dangerously.

I got caught speeding. There was no other traffic on the road, there were no pedestrians about, it was broad daylight, I'd seen the speed sign and was slowing down, I was doing 36 and reducing speed to 30 as I was caught by a van hidden behind a bush.

I have absolutely no problem at all with being caught, but I get fed up with the idea that all drivers are speedy phycho death mongers – it's no different to the all cyclists deserve to die cos I once saw one go through a red light nonsense you read.

Having points or having to attend a course just hilights in black and white that obviously you driving fast really isn't safe of you.

You seem to be confusing speed with observation on your soapbox there.

That is to say, if you drive around at 20mph with your eyes closed, you're still unsafe. Speeding just compounds the issue in that case.

Driving above a posted speed limit isn't, in and of itself, inherently unsafe, and driving under the limit isn't automatically safe either. Say a road is reclassified from 50 to 40; does that mean that yesterday it was safe to drive on at 50 and today it's dangerous to drive at 41? Of course not. It's a one-size-fits-all solution which isn't perfect, but until we invent looking-where-you're-going cameras it's the best we have currently.

I have absolutely no problem at all with being caught, but I get fed up with the idea that all drivers are speedy phycho death mongers – it's no different to the all cyclists deserve to die cos I once saw one go through a red light nonsense you read.

You got a speeding fine or got sent on a speed awareness course because you were speeding.

You didn't get given a fine, or threatened with a fine, because someone else was speeding. YOU chose to break the law, YOU get the (fairly piddly) punishment. Seems perfectly fair to me. If you were being told you deserve to die because some crack-fiend in another part of the country stole a car and did 90mph down the pavement while trying to escape from the police then that would be daft.

[quote=notmyrealname ]Either way it's better than points on your license.

Why? Given the points on my licence make no difference to me whereas a course would have required me taking a day off work.

The sad fact is that alot of drivers really shouldn't speed/drive fast.

They feel with Traction control, ABS, airbags etc etc that they are safe to drive quicker as the car is safer.

Driving at 20 with your eyes shut is a weird analogy. Many drivers have poor reaction times mixed with false belief in their car/their joint-ability so they have less time to react than they would.

I'm not a advocate of BRAKE. Far from it. When you are aware of your own failures or ability I think you can be a safer driver.

[quote=Cougar ]Say a road is reclassified from 50 to 40; does that mean that yesterday it was safe to drive on at 50 and today it's dangerous to drive at 41? Of course not.

Indeed. Plenty of people totally legally drove along the bit of road I got done on at 70. I was doing 57. Oh and nothing at all wrong with my observation - I saw the camera van at exactly the same point it first saw me.

[quote=hora ]The sad fact is that alot of drivers really shouldn't speed/drive fast.

Which has nothing at all to do with speed limits as discussed above. A lot of drivers shouldn't be driving at all, and speed really doesn't come into it.

Why? Given the points on my licence make no difference to me

Have you done a comparison quote without the points, or just that your renewal wasn't higher ?

I did a comparison and mine would have gone up £85 if I took the points rather than doing the course.

They feel with Traction control, ABS, airbags etc etc that they are safe to drive quicker as the car is safer.

I do occasionally wonder whether the roads would be safer overall if we replaced the driver's airbag with a 6" metal spike in the centre of the steering wheel.

[quote=nealglover ]Have you done a comparison quote without the points

Yes. £85 difference would make my insurance <£100 without the points!

As Cougar says, we don't have 'paying attention or not?' cameras yet, so we can't check for that without loads more traffic police (which I'd like to see).

But why is the choice always "Attentive driver going over the speed limit VS blind drunkard doing 3mph under the limit"? Why not "Attentive driver going over the speed limit VS Attentive driver obeying the limit"? Do you stop looking at what's going on in front of you when you go below the limit?

Did one of the new courses earlier this year provided by AA Drivetech. Would like to say it was a load of cobblers, but no, it wasn't, it was quite interesting. A bit superficial, but then 4 hours is not long really. Definitely better than points. I suspect the old courses were a bit like being told off by an angry nun.

Did I learn anything? Perhaps - the braking from 30, 40 35 & in particular 33 videos were quite surprising. I also learned that many, many people have never seen the highway code since their test. Of those, quite a few demanded to know why they couldn't be informed when bits of it changed! 😯

Surprised it took over an hour for this thread to degenerate.

But why is the choice always "Attentive driver going over the speed limit VS blind drunkard doing 3mph under the limit"?

Because it's empty rhetoric. They are on the defensive, and looking for an argument to justify their desire to go fast. They can't find a proper one so they pull this crap out instead, and won't accept that it's flawed as you point out.

Because it's empty rhetoric.

Nope, it is an illustration that speeding is not by default dangerous, it's just not legal. You can drive under the speed limit, not be detected by cameras but still be dangerous. The problem with all these discussions is that ultimately it's all about context.

Speeding is speeding, it may or may not involve dangerous driving. Likewise, dangerous driving is dangerous driving, it may or may not involve speeding.

I do occasionally wonder whether the roads would be safer overall if we replaced the driver's airbag with a 6" metal spike in the centre of the steering wheel.

Driving an old 1971 VW Camper- I was VERY conscious that if I had a crash I'd have serious leg injuries and probably have to have the steering wheel removed from my abdomen.

They are on the defensive, and looking for an argument to justify their desire to go fast.

Not as bad as those who just just can't read the speed limit signs.....

Thanks for all the feedback. Will now be booking myself onto a course and getting my best notebook and pen ready 🙂

I wonder what my ratio of signs seen to signs missed is? I wonder what yours is?

Nope, it is an illustration that speeding is not by default dangerous

No, it is. WHATEVER you do, it's more dangerous to do it faster. Because you (and everyone else) has less time to react, and if there is an accident the consequences will be worse. It makes everything you do more dangerous.

You can drive under the speed limit, not be detected by cameras but still be dangerous.

Yes but this is so blatantly obvious it doesn't need pointing out. And no-one's trying to defend it either.

Next time your racing home from your ride at the trail centre - think about road cyclists please.

I got caught after I had been on a speed awareness course so they obviously don't work and as such I asked for my money back...

WHATEVER you do, it's more dangerous to do it faster.

Run away from a tiger.

Yeah you might trip, and if you are going faster it'll hurt more.

I accept those risks in that context.

Back on the roads, tractor in front of me doing 30mph. No queue, so I don't have to wait my turn. Is it safer to overtake it at 31mph or 50mph?

Ok fair point.

No, it is. WHATEVER you do, it's more dangerous to do it faster.

No, it isn’t.

And an increase in danger from 'not dangerous' to 'a bit more dangerous than not dangerous' doesn't mean you are now doing something dangerous.

And an increase in danger from 'not dangerous' to 'a bit more dangerous than not dangerous' doesn't mean you are now doing something dangerous.

Problem with driving is that many people don't realise it's dangerous until it's too late.

Some people need to go on a self-awareness course

And an increase in danger from 'not dangerous' to 'a bit more dangerous than not dangerous' doesn't mean you are now doing something dangerous.

Moreover, it's not black and white, it's a relative scale.

Walking across the road to get to my car isn't "dangerous" in absolute terms, but it's more dangerous than staying in bed. Driving at 15mph is more dangerous than driving at 10mph, and less dangerous than driving at 20mph, but that doesn't mean any of these things are particularly dangerous in and of themselves. Driving down the motorway at 150mph is safer than doing it at 200mph, is it safe?

Ie, Molgrips is saying that what Bluebird said is incorrect, but his explanation then moves the goalposts. Doing something faster may well be "more dangerous" but that's not the same as saying it's a dangerous activity.

Of course, what you say is all very obvious. So why not draw an arbitrary line for most situations that we can all stick to? We could perhaps put it on signs by the roadside.

Why? Given the points on my licence make no difference to me whereas a course would have required me taking a day off work.

Those three points will be valid for three years and you'll have to inform about them for five.

Get another ticket and your on 6 points and the insurance companies will start to take notice.

So why not draw an arbitrary line for most situations that we can all stick to?

Of course, that's exactly what we've done. And it's precisely the "arbitrary" nature that we're talking about.

We could perhaps put it on signs by the roadside.

Would you think that would be clear enough, or maybe too easy to miss?

A point it worth about £50 on your insurance*.

So, 3 points x 5 years x £50 = £750.

Do the course.

*Source - My last speed awareness course.

However, some insurance companies ask if you have attended a speed awareness course even though in the eyes of the law it is not a conviction. Admiral bumped up my premium. I told them that I wouldn't renew. Admiral took off their addition.

It isn't just us reckless speeding motorists that are criminals 😉

I've been done twice in 28 years for doing 36 in a 30. Once at 7:00am on a saturday, once dropping from 50 to 30 (but not quickly enough). It was my fault and I am a bad man, unlike some people on here who never stray over the limit on their high horses.

Ironically those complaining and attending about points/courses are usually the ones who speed and are caught.

Good observational skills tends to avoid these.......

Getting caught should point out rudely and clearly that you really aren't the type who should be 'speeding'.

BTW - I'm very good at making good/smooth progress in a car. Smooth/good progress isn't speeding its planning ahead, adapting to the road ahead etc.

Speeders plough on...and are caught.

I went on a speed awareness course and although I thought I was quite knowledgeable I learned a few things.

It was quite amusing listening to some peoples attitudes/view points/excuses.

My favorite excuse being delivered by a little old lady who said "I wasn't watching the road so didn't see the camera. I had friends in the back of my car and I like to look at them while talking" - I think that should have been a license removal there and then! She then proceeded to answer the question "how far behind the car in front should you be if traveling at 70mph on the motorway?" with "1 foot!"

A point it worth about £50 on your insurance*.

In my experience it isn't. Not for a 3pt SP30, made no difference

[ninja edit]

She then proceeded to answer the question "how far behind the car in front should you be if traveling at 70mph on the motorway?" with "1 foot!"

I think she must live near me 😀

Did she attempt to justify that answer in any way at all?

hora - Member

Ironically those complaining and attending about points/courses are usually the ones who speed and are caught.

Good observational skills tends to avoid these.......

Getting caught should point out rudely and clearly that you really aren't the type who should be 'speeding'.

BTW - I'm very good at making good/smooth progress in a car. Smooth/good progress isn't speeding its planning ahead, adapting to the road ahead etc.

Speeders plough on...and are caught.

Taking that as a green light 😀

It'd be more interesting if everyone spilled the beans about past accidents. I've a couple friends who never knowingly stray above the speed limits, but it's a scary experience accepting a lift from them and there cars are constantly being repaired from various low speed battles.

Temporary suspension for all involved in an incident pending retest would go some way to sorting out the accident stats, plus compulsory retests every 5 years or so.

once dropping from 50 to 30 (but not quickly enough).

Exactly how I got caught. I was in the process of decelerating for a 30 limit from a 50 but hadn't quite got down to 30 as I passed the sign. If they'd pinged me a couple of seconds later I'd have been within the limit. Mia culpa.

She then proceeded to answer the question "how far behind the car in front should you be if traveling at 70mph on the motorway?" with "1 foot!"

A colleague went on a course and was surprised to hear answers to "what is the national speed limit on a single carriageway road (out of a built up area :wink:)" varying from 40mph to 90mph 😯

Cougar, that wouldn't have happened had we been on high horses.

What the anecdotes in this thread, the death and injury stats and general experience on the roads tell you is that the driving test is too easy, penalties for inadequate driving are not high enough, and drivers need re-testing more frequently

It'd be more interesting if everyone spilled the beans about past accidents

I'm not sure as that's a good metric either. I've had four collisions in the last two years. Five in fact, if you count my previous car. In each case, I was stationary.

5) Back in the Mondeo, very bad weather conditions. Traffic up ahead stopped suddenly, I stopped because I'd left sufficient braking distance, guy behind wasn't so lucky. That smarted a bit.

2) Very tight single-track country road, met oncoming traffic. I drove as far over into the ditch / hedgerow as I could and waited for them to pass; first vehicle squeezed past, second dragged itself down the side of my car in the process and then sped off.

3) Waiting to pull out of a side road, young lad turned off from the major road far too fast, didn't see the parked car in front of him and clipped me in swerving to try and avoid it.

4) Approaching a hump-backed bridge, boy racer came over the bridge the other way with his head on fire. I stopped before the bridge where it was still wide enough for two-way traffic, he bounced across the road trying to wrestle control, ricocheted off a dry stone wall into the side of me.

5) Queuing to enter a mini roundabout, been there half a minute or so, someone kindly slammed into the back of me. Understandable as my car was no doubt difficult to see, being a bright red family saloon with its brake lights on.

What the anecdotes in this thread, the death and injury stats and general experience on the roads tell you is that the driving test is too easy, penalties for inadequate driving are not high enough, and drivers need re-testing more frequently

The UK has some of the safest roads and lowest accident rates in the world...