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If theres no trains on Friday, then why not just go to the pub for the afternoon? You sound like you could definitely benefit from an afternoon in the pub. Go mad... call in the bookies and put a few bets on, on the way there. Then maybe a fight outside the kebab house later, on the way home?
Mrs njee20 is 9 months pregnant, pub isn't a popular option right now, nor is my inability to get home when required!
Seriously why? What's one person going to do that can't be done by automated systems and the people on the train?
This. What about all the services that are currently unstaffed? Are they less safe? Do you always check before you board a train that there's someone else on board? How often have you needed them?
come for a ride tonight, you can pretend it's The North, sky is certainly grim enough...
That's actually very tempting! Already have plans though cheers - capitalising on being home at a sensible hour for once!
So if someone in a toilet pulls the distress cord it stops and the driver deals with it? Who puts ou the wheelchair ramps at unmanned stations?
Someone like this?
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Saying that, the sun's come out now. 8)
Have the guards been sacked yet?
It's all I'm (and many hundreds of thousands) of Southern Train users are interested in.
Tossers.
Mrs njee20 is 9 months pregnant, pub isn't a popular option right now, nor is my inability to get home when required!
Pfft! Amateur!! Is this your first? everyone knows that theres nothing a pregnant woman appreciates more than being brought a kebab in the early hours. Bring cheesy chips too, delivered with the immortal line "d'ya know wha? I fuggin' love you, you fugger!...." and you'll be elevated to hero status on Mumsnet!
Trust me on this. ..... Its a win/win for everyone involved. The guards of Southern Rail have handed you a golden opportunity, yet you casually spurn it? You sir are a fool! And an ungrateful fool, at that!
So if someone in a toilet pulls the distress cord it stops and the driver deals with it? Who puts ou the wheelchair ramps at unmanned stations?
In which case the Conductor's job is essential and therefore safe whether he controls the doors or not. Which makes it fairly hard to understand what the fuss is about.
So we can have driverless cars, but trains? No way too many variables with a train, on tracks....
Trust me on this. ..... Its a win/win for everyone involved. The guards of Southern Rail have handed you a golden opportunity, yet you casually spurn it? You sir are a fool! And an ungrateful fool, at that!
😆 well done, I'll give you that!
Have the guards been sacked yet?It's all I'm (and many hundreds of thousands) of Southern Train users are interested in.
They were told they will all have their contracts terminated on 1st January, although there is a new contract waiting for them if they wish. I don't know if there's been any more on that though.
Trust me on this. ..... Its a win/win for everyone involved. The guards of Southern Rail have handed you a golden opportunity, yet you casually spurn it? You sir are a fool! And an ungrateful fool, at that!
😆 well done, I'll give you that!
Have the guards been sacked yet?It's all I'm (and many hundreds of thousands) of Southern Train users are interested in.
They were told they will all have their contracts terminated on 1st January, although there is a new contract waiting for them if they wish. I don't know if there's been any more on that though.
With the increase in passenger numbers and simultaneous fare increases over the past 10 years it's incredible that the operating companies can't still make a profit / need to make people redundant.
This must be costing some big businesses in London as their personnel can't get in, surely they can ask their mates in government to sort it out?
What about all the services that are currently unstaffed? Are they less safe?
Yes.
I know of two suicides locally at unmanned stations.
Personally I've had to restrain an incredibly drunk woman who wanted to do the same and work with a chap who witnessed a young drunk girl, larking about, fall in front of a train before he could get to her.
I was on my own, but the incident my colleague witnessed had lots of bystanders, none of which attempted to intervene before it was too late.
With the increase in passenger numbers and simultaneous fare increases over the past 10 years it's incredible that the operating companies can't still make a profit / need to make people redundant.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH. Jesus wept.
put up them fences that open when the trains in the station. Simples. Sure they have them in London somewhere.
I know of two suicides locally at unmanned stations.
Personally I've had to restrain an incredibly drunk woman who wanted to do the same and work with a chap who witnessed a young drunk girl, larking about, fall in front of a train before he could get to her.I was on my own, but the incident my colleague witnessed had lots of bystanders, none of which attempted to intervene before it was too late.
But we're not talking about unmanned stations, we're talking about having someone on the train who no longer pushes a button. The argument being that eventually he won't be there at all, which is speculation, but given a long enough time frame probably accurate. Stations are something else entirely.
Civil airliners used to have at least 3 people on the flight deck, are they less safe now they only have 2?
Have you ever thought of moving to Wrexham? Its lovely this time of year? And a lot less stressful by the sounds of things
They don't just push buttons.
As others have explained.
You're obviously very angry about this and I can completely understand why.
But, you're currently unwilling to accept that any other view apart from your own has any validity.
Debate is impossible.
Enjoy your day.
I wasn't responding to the downgrading of the role, I was responding to the notion if having no manning at all.
They don't just push buttons.
As others have explained.
I'd wholly agree with you, if this were about getting rid of the guards on trains. It isn't. We can argue all day about whether moving to driver-operated doors is the first step to getting rid of them, but that's not what is being proposed. Indeed they're guaranteeing that won't happen for a period, which is an assurance very few of us can enjoy.
The reality is that on-board safety personnel or whatever will probably become superfluous at some point. As will the drivers. As will lorry drivers, and production line workers and shop staff and so on and so on.
There is a lot of 'whatabouttery' going on, which is largely peripheral.
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Well if all the predictions about the future were correct we wouldn't have doubled the people using trains, as has happened, as I thought we were all supposed to be remote-working by now, anyway?
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And where's my hoverboard? Where eh? Answer me that?!!! We should all be on hoverboards!! Not bloody trains!!!! Pah!!![/b]
Precisely. So why are people trying to predict that this is the first step to making on board staff redundant?
....basic economics I guess. Step 1, downgrade the role/remove responsibilities so you can use cheaper staff. Step 2, remove role.
The single most valid point I've seen so far is the wheelchair ramp argument. Pretty much all the others you can mitigate....
I was in a train crash in March of this year, on a train staffed by a driver (obvs!) and a guard. Following the crash the guard was beyond useless despite being at the rear of the train when the impact happened and was seemingly unhurt, unlike those of us in the front carriage that took the brunt of the impact. The inquiry into the crash deemed that Network rail were at fault for telling the tractor driver to cross an unmanned crossing and also that the driver had the train 40mph [b]above[/b] what it should have been doing when going across the crossing.
Similarly, I was on a train last year going between London and Hastings and a lady opposite me started having a seizure. Despite pressing the intercom to talk to the driver (who ignored us and kept going) and getting the guard (who had no first aid training, no understanding of what to do and no process to follow in the event of a passenger being taken seriously ill), it took three stations before the driver finally stopped, at which point I called the emergency services as the guard refused to (W the actual F!).
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner they automate the whole flipping train system the better. Guards on trains serve no purpose whatsoever apart from checking tickets after leaving Cannon ST, which is a pointless exercise anyway as its all automated barriers.
Between them, the rail companies, the unions, network rail and the government have managed to create a transport 'system' that isn't anywhere near fit for purpose. Following the crash, I've not been on a train since (I've done nearly 6k commuting on the bike though - win) and I'll not be going on another for a long while. I pity two of the blokes who work for me though - £4k season ticket and it took one of them 3 hours to get in this morning from Paddock Wood....which is the norm at the moment
My station has London midland, virgin and Southern trains all going to London.
Fortunately I use London midland or virgin, fortunately because even when they are not on strike the Southern trains seem to be delayed more often than the others even though they use the same track for part of the journey.
The other 2 companies seen to run a better service with guards etc.
Yesterday there was an I'll passenger emergency and a request for any medics on board to help from the guard, so they are kept busy, there's also a couple of blind people on my train who commute regularly and they help them on and off and arrange for station staff to meet them off as well as wheelchair users. All of this on very busy standing room only commuter trains.
Jobs are changing, automation is a big upheaval, eg less checkout staff these days, but some jobs are still essential.
Southern seem to have a lot of problems, I'm not sure reducing staff is the solution.
The single most valid point I've seen so far is the wheelchair ramp argument. Pretty much all the others you can mitigate....
Yes, I'd agree with that. I've seen proposals for passengers helping and what not, which does seem far fetched!
Southern seem to have a lot of problems, I'm not sure reducing staff is the solution.
Good job they're not actually doing that then, isn't it? 😉
yet..... 😉Good job they're not actually doing that then
Is that the sound of speculation I hear?!
I'll laugh if Southern are the last TOC with on board staff because they've been forced into it by the union whilst every other operator just quietly gets rid of them!
I'll laugh if Southern are the last TOC with on board staff because they've been forced into it by the union whilst every other operator just quietly gets rid of them!
youd laugh at people losing their jobs ? 😯
"yet....."
In which case the jobs by definition can't be essential.
Is that the sound of speculation I hear?!
Its a privately run train service. Its inevitable.
Its a privately run train service. Its inevitable.
😯
Anyone got the obvious answer as to who is right - road users, sadly.
Its a privately run train service. Its inevitable.
As above, you agree they're unnecessary then?
I think it's really unfortunate that the news reporting does not report in an unbiased and fair way.
E.g. Soundbites are often taken out of context (to generate greater impact) and subsequently create a distorted and unhelpful view of the situation.
Doesn't help the matter at all.
I've said this in the last Southern Rail thread we had..
But..
If the guards and drivers fail to turn up for work without a sick note covering the period, sack em'.
For damn sure in my industry we're bound by those rules.
Tossers.
Anyone got the obvious answer as to who is right - road users, sadly.
Problem with driving is that all these bloody cyclists get in the way, overtake me whilst i sit in traffic and run redlights.
and they dont pay their road tax....b88stards
Be alright if they earned their money, like these boys do:
bikebouy - Member
I've said this in the last Southern Rail thread we had.
And any other time unions are mentioned.
Your agenda is pretty clear.
I sussed out ages ago that he was actually Iain Duncan Smith and I claimed my food bank voucher 😀
Did you get anything nice?
This thread really has helped me understand what's going on.
The unions are going on strike because conductors are losing the door operation role.
The safety argument has long since been debunked, so why are the unions objecting to that?
Because it will (long term) cost their member's jobs.
How do the unions know this change will cost jobs?
Because the unions think without the door opening role conductors are sometimes needless.
Ipso Facto the unions are 'wrong'.
The safety argument has long since been debunked
I don't believe that to be the case.
"the safety argument has long since been debunked"
Epic sweeping statement! debunked where.... in an ill informed thread on the internet, or in the 'media'?
The devil as ever is in the detail, media is a great tool for swaying opinion without going through all that messy business of rationally evaluating evidence 😉
I don't believe that to be the case.
I'm sure you're very knowledgeable about rail safety but the Office of Rail Regulation probably trump your knowledge. Plus a third of the railways run without Conductors. Plus some railways run without drivers or conductors.
....and finally the Rail Unions are there to protect their members. They are not responsible for safety and if they were there would be a clear conflict of interest.
[url= https://medium.com/@xciv/southern-rail-transport-secretary-misleads-passengers-1371dd775ab0#.9eebgbd51 ]Good link 1[/url]
[url= http://www.londonreconnections.com/2016/railway-roulette/ ]Older link[/url]
Which actually explain the issues and history of the dispute. 20 days of strikes only, the service has been terrible for more days than that!