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Sorry, long post but I'm really shaken up and just need to share.
There is a travelling fun fair in town at the moment. I had to drop my eldest son off at a scout camp night and my wife had said I could have an hour with my camera after and before putting the youngest to bed.
Fairs are great places for street and candid photography. There is so much colour a life and they are a great part of our culture. And yes there are often a lot of children around so it’s best to be respectful and sensitive.
I was taking some pictures of a large pink inflatable ball hanging from the awning of a stall when the next thing I know, I’m surrounded by four women challenging me and accusing me of taking pictures of their kids.
Now, believe it or not, there is no law against doing that. I personally think that recording our social and cultural heritage is an important thing, including children, but I understand not everyone agrees so I always take a deferential approach in response to this. My immediate reaction was to apologise, to explain I didn’t intend to photograph their child, that I was sorry if it had happened (it wasn’t my intention) and that I would make sure that I didn’t take any picture in which their child would be in the frame.
But that was not enough for them. They wanted me to delete all my pictures and when I refused, it pretty quickly turned very (and I really do mean very) nasty indeed. I tried very hard to diffuse the situation by being apologetic, assuring them that there were no pictures of their children on my camera, but within a few minutes I had a gang of about six women, all pressed full up against me screaming that I was a pedo, a pervert, that I was going to take the pictures home and have a w**k over them. They threatened to call the police and I invited them to (since I know I’ve done nothing wrong).
It was incredibly upsetting. I am entirely sensitive to their concerns and fears but I am also not about to start kowtowing to vicious and unreasonable demands especially when their motivation is pure hate and vile bigotry. I feel pretty shaken up. It lasted about five or six minutes and included them shoving me. It ended because I walked away; I backed down in the face of hate and aggression and hostility (and a little fear – the bokes were starting to take an interest and while I could probably handle one on one, I’m too out of shape to be more aggressive). It’s not in my nature to back down. I would rather everyone just called down and left it go, but that was never going to happen.
To have such horrible things thrown at you in such a brutal and public way, to be presumed to be something so utterly repugnant and so counter to who you really are; it’s truly horrible.
.
😯
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There are some odd people in this world.
Ouch!
Remember that you did nothing wrong, and were calm enough to walk away when things looked ugly.
It's the world we live in, "paedos" are the bete noire at the moment, and people are always looking for the "other" to vilify.
At least they didn't know you were a cyclist as well! 🙂
Chin up pal
APF
Tbf.....you probably should'nt have worn the gimp suit this time.
included them shoving me
Common assault. Next time straight on the blower and call the cops. It's not acceptable.
Welcome to a world where people believe what is in the Daily Mail to be true. I find it very sad that people seem unable to understand that shit happens but is actually quite unusual. The reason news is news is because it is unusual.
What is the population of the UK? 65M -ish and 50,000 on the sex offenders register, and of those how many are paedophiles ? Add to that every study shows if it is going to happen it is almost always within the family or a family friend. The likelyhood of a random bloke is minuscule!
I suspect that most people on here above the age of 30-40 can remember just disappearing and doing there own thing. walking or riding to school etc. Yet we keep on being told that the world is a dangerous place and kids can't possibly be allowed to go to school by themselves. So yes the roads are more dangerous because people insist on driving stupid size cars on them!
Dress like this next time and they'll recognise you from their 60" telly
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Thirty years ago I used to take my camera to the park and photograph the lads playing cricket just to get practice taking action shots. There is no way I would consider doing that today no matter if its legal or not. Funnily enough I've just walked through our local fair. It's heaving with young girls dressed in hardly anything (despite the rain). I'd never dream of wandering around there with a camera either.
I am really sorry for what happened to you, but I would suggest that, although it's easy for me to say, you really should have called the police yourself.
20 years ago, my father had gone through a period of unemployment and so took work as an insurance rep, which meant driving around the Manitoba countryside visiting people with whom he had made appointments. On one occasion, he arrived 30 minutes early for his appointment, and so waited outside in his car. A man from a neighbouring house came out and accused him of being a pervert trying to spy on his daughter, opened my dad's car door, dragged him out, and beat him up. The police were called, and after explaining to the man what my dad was actually doing there, made him apologise and recompense my dad for his now-destroyed clothes, and the black eye. I was actually furious with my dad for having accepted that, and sorely wanted him to press charges. Anyway, when I say I feel sorry for you, I really do mean it.
Best wishes.
I'd have probably taken pics somewhere else other than a fair. Might have been more acceptable had you had children with you.
Yes it sounds like they overreacted, and they were probably sun readers, and it's crap newspapers like that which perpetuate a climate of fear around paedophiles which the less educated completely buy into.
But I'd have definitely chosen somewhere without children around.
Horrible situation and well avoided. I'd have been tempted to call the police too, explain what you are being accused of, and see if that diffuses it. Does walking off actually appear worse (equally, standing and waiting for the men to arrive and enact 'justice' would take balls)
Trying not to victim blame here, but what could you do differently. I've seen your work which is excellent (IMHO) but most is 'portraits in daily situations' if that's a genre rather than reportage. Is taking a camera into a funfair and randomly snapping - even if you weren't taking pics of the kids themselves - opening you up to this? Could you overtly approach people just to avoid the allegation that you're doing it secretly? I used to be welfare officer at a cricket club, and part of the anti-child abuse policy was to have a highly visible anti-child abuse policy.
I also wonder if worth reporting just to ensure that there's a counter should one of the mums do so. And/or get the story to the local papers 'Local photographer attacked at funfair' - maybe make them think about questioning their prejudices too.
Scroobius Pip hit the nail on the head:
"Thou shalt not think any male over the age of 30 that plays with a child that is not their own is a paedophile.
Some people are just nice"
(Thou shalt always kill)
Couldn't you have offered to show them the images on the camera screen ? Or had it all gone a bit Mad Max ?
Horrible situation and well avoided.
Jonv thanks for making those points and making them sensitively. I don't want to have to think twice in order to avoid 'victim blaming' (which is potentially what we run the risk of here), but yet, to your points.
The problem is, if we're going to say it's wrong, even if not illegal, to photograph anything where children are present, then what are we saying about the nature of our open and free society? There are kids everywhere, so are we to avoid ever taking pictures?
Most of my stuff is formally agreed and taken with full knowledge and consent. I prefer that style, but my project 'Bicycle Thieves' is very much about candid moments in life. Those moments are important. They are what make us human.
Load of people crowding you distracting you, have you got anything left in your pockets?
Sorry but frankly you should have showed them your pictures at the first opportunity (why didn't you?) and if that wasn't enough deleted them when they asked. Really it's just a couple of hobby shots of a funfair. Sounds like it could have been very easily calmed down.
As soon as you start talking about composition and lighting of your shots they probably would have walked away bored.
People's opinions and reactions to situations are hard to predict. Who knows whether any of the women who confronted you had had previous experiences with strangers taking pics of their kids at fairgrounds ? They may well be posting online somewhere with a thread titled the same as yours, about the same encounter.
Some people are @%$£s
The problem is, if we're going to say it's wrong, even if not illegal, to photograph anything where children are present, then what are we saying about the nature of our open and free society?
It speaks volumes, and I'm with you on that.
But at the same time, it is what it is. I wouldn't leave my phone on the table in a pub while I went to the bar, even though I should be able to.
I'm a strong advocate of 'taking a stand' and have said that several times before - be it dog poo, inconsiderate parking, aggressive behaviour on a bus.... or this. Where bad things happen, as a society we need to stand up to it. But that doesn't mean I advocate creating situations just so you can take a stand.
Does that make sense - not sure it's well explained, but I know what I mean.
I feel for you Greg, I honestly do. Not been in that kind of situation, but last year I had a note left on the windscreen of the car I was driving for the day saying accusing me of being a paedophile and "disgusting". Shook me right up, I couldn't be further from that description!
https://twitter.com/VitaminCCS/status/791349759831400448
Try to find a way to take your mind off it for a few hours or you will drive yourself crazy overnight.
[s]You could have a flick through those pics and have a tommy t... [/s] I'm not very good at the light humour pressure cooker thing 🙁
You could have a flick through those pics and have a tommy t... I'm not very good at the light humour pressure cooker thing
OK that made me laugh!
I had a note left on the windscreen of the car I was driving for the day saying accusing me of being a paedophile and "disgusting".
Holy crap what was the basis for that? Was it photography related?
Best advice I had for this, or other request to delete pictures situation...do quick format, on my Canon it just deletes the file index, remove card, and don't use it again. Go home, use image/file recovery software to recover images.
In 30 years time would you rather have society remember the image of the fun fair, or the sense of assumed knee-jerk outrage at the notion that somebody might want to capture that? You did nothing wrong.
Here's another well-known pervert's filth 😉
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Tough evening.
I remember when my kids where swimming at major events and having to register the camera, also when helping out the coaches having various crb and sex offender checks done and a do / don't briefing. TBH I fou d it all quite uncomfortable so I stopped taking my camera and only did 1 coaching session. In many respects I admire those that put themselves in the front line in that way.
To be accused of such a thing even when yiu know you have done nothing must be very distressing.
Should've told them that their kids were too fat and ugly to want to
Photograph, just like their mums.
Even paedos have standards. 😀
[i]Was it photography related?[/i]
No, the car I was driving had a '[url= http://no2np.org/named-person/ ]No to Named Persons[/url]' sticker in the back window. Having a different view on how children should be protected in society does not made me a paedophile, obviously, except for the hard of thinking/political fantasists.
Ironically, I was responsible for getting a neighbour of mine some years ago charged with holding thousands of child abuse photos after reporting his general antisocial behaviour to the police.
(There also happened to be a fur coat there too, belonging to the model I was working with for the day, explaining the random non sequitur on the note)
Later that day...
The world has a large swathe of morons upon it, try not to let it get you down.
Load of people crowding you distracting you, have you got anything left in your pockets?
This is the first thing I thought. Classic gypo / traveller distraction robbery, especially at a funfair (which they all run).
I find our modern concern over taking pictures of children rather strange.
I mean, assuming you are just taking pictures of normal, public behavior, then the children are NOT being harmed themselves. If those pictures are used by some pervert in an inappropriate manner, then yes that person should be called to account. But it is not the pictures themselves that are the issue.
It's also ridiculous, again assuming we are talking about pictures of children in normal everyday / public situations, because you can go online and find probably well over 1000 million pics of children taken by their parents or friends, and stored in publicly accessible locations online.
From the opposite side, the sensible thing to have done would have been to strike up a conversation with you and gauge what you were up to, if they had any concerns. That sounds like people who have watched too much Jeremy Kyle and can't differentiate between TV and the real world.
It's also ridiculous, again assuming we are talking about pictures of children in normal everyday / public situations, because you can go online and find probably well over 1000 million pics of children taken by their parents or friends, and stored in publicly accessible locations online.
Indeed. You even get video if you Sky + adverts.
Unfortunately this is the world today. In hindsight you maybe should've said, your shite ugly little rats have ruined my shots you pig faced set of bints.
Or words to that effect.
& then called the Police.
Single bloke turns up at a fun fair with a camera takes pictures of kids. Not going to win you a medal is it.
Whilst it is a sad reflection on society the over reaction you experienced. What sort of interaction at a traveling fun fair did you think you might get under the circumstances above.
Single bloke turns up at a fun fair with a camera takes pictures of kids. Not going to win you a medal is it.
Same as your not getting one for reading...
I was up in the Sunshine Cost in Queensland and went for a walk along the beach, plan was to get to the end and take some sunset shots
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5626/30640055221_53d932e148_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5626/30640055221_53d932e148_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/NFyhWa ]Last one for the ride[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
I only had my phone last time so took the DSLR with me. Snapped a few but felt very out of place very quickly being a single bloke on a beach with a camera. It's a tough time these days and another one of the few ruining things for the many.
In the eyes of those that confronted him he was a single man at a fun fair with a camera . I know his wife allowed him time after dropping the child off .....as per his post. The certain individuals at the fun fair didn't and that is a point the statement is making. Cost or coast 🙂
Er you said he was taking pics of kids, which he wasn't. Whoever you are it's got to the stage where everyone is judged by other peoples low standards. The face they got physical makes it worse and certainly worth reporting to the police.
I feel for you. I had a similar incident at the local swimming baths when the "S" fell of the logo on my trunks...
Seriously though that's a really horrible thing to be accused of in public even without all the aggression.
I used to do a lot of street photography and while it is not illegal to take a picture of anyone some people do get angry about the fact you have taken their picture. I have been approached a number of times and one of those times the mother and father thought I was taking pictures of their kids.
I just said no I am not and walked away but they did seem overly angry about the whole thing. I certainly wouldn't get into a fight about it, my photographs really are not worth that...
oh dear I will spell it out. I am not saying he was taking pictures of children. My comment is the limited thoughts of those that confronted him. ....At a fun fair with a camera single man without children. When you where at the coast you started to experience the same feelings that I would have thought the op might have had or thought about before going to a fun fair, on his own with a camera, taking pictures and even more so with the type of clientele that may frequent a traveling fun fair. Am agreeing it is a sad situation that certain individuals think this way and act like they did. What I can't understand is why you might not consider this before going.
Like many on here my Wife's Uncle is a budding amateur photographer. He will happily walk into a pub for example take pictures of staff and customers and not think twice about the perception of others.
That's a shit experience and you have my sympathies.
As others have mentioned it's not something I'd do, we just don't live in a time where it's a safe thing to do. And by safe I mean safe from a negative public reaction which seems in line with the perceptions of quite a few posters.
Can't see that changing any time soon with the fear culture we seem to have.
You should have used a DJI Phantom or similar for this mission
I'd echo the earlier comments about the possibility of the women being with the Fair, but rather than a distraction theft, using it as a tactic to remove people who may be press, or taking photos and capturing employees that perhaps they don't want appearing in the newspaper.
You might get one mouthy mum with her mates standing behind in a concerned manner, but to have six right in your face and aggressive seems a bit unusual? Unless they were genuinely convinced you were up to no good, but then they'd have prevented you from leaving...
Hi Greg - that is a horrible thing, and apart from anything else, it has a bit of a chiling effect, such that next time you are out doing something you enjoy you will have this unpleasantness at the back of your mind. Maybe the best thing is to get back in the saddle and go out and shoot some of your great street portraits!
Fun fairs are where the Brits demonstrate their true ugliness.
At a fun fair with a camera single man without children.
On the one hand you have a point, but on the other, your point is predicated on and indicative of precisely the kind of bigoted and prejudicial belief systems that lead people to conclude 'she's dressed like a whore so therefore she's up for it' or 'he black, wearing a baseball cap and walking in a funny way, he must be a drug dealer'.
Think about it; what possible harm or pernicious intent could a man with a camera taking pictures really have. If I had been female, do you really think they would have reacted the same way; would you?
I'm entirely sensitive to their response, which is precisely why my immediate reaction was to try and diffuse the situation with an apology and a reassurance that I wouldn't take any pictures where their children might end up being in the frame.
But I draw the line at being instructed (really rather aggressively) to delete my pictures by anyone. No one has the legal authority to do that.
To be honest, if they had been polite about it, heck I'd even settle for purely civil, I would have done that. But this wasn't about anything other than hate, bile and vindictiveness.
Where is society when you start pandering to the vicious baying mob? My pictures might not be that significant, but the values and beliefs that they are made with are.
On the local Fb page a driver did a screenshot from his dashcam of a kid riding her bike in front of her mum without a helmet on . The point the driver was trying to make was that is was safer to wear a helmet . He got attacked instantly for posting photos of children online ( no face in pic , no name ) by alot of mums. Some people asked for the post to be removed by the admin , some were spouting that it was illegal and the police should be involved.
Poor bloke was trying to say , ' be safer to wear a helemt' next thing the peado police are burning his car. .
Thats what the world has come to and its a shame .
insert unsuitable stw joke to lighten mood.- You didnt have a gold shiney tracksuit and a cigar per chance ?
That's all very nice GeeTee but we don't live in a perfect world and people are on a hair trigger on a number of issues these days and don't always behave or react in a politically correct manner. A harrowing experience for the OP indeed, but people seem to be on a hair trigger these days with this sort of thing. I'm afraid if I was at a fun fair, or any other public venue, and thought I saw a stranger taking pics of my kids i'd confront them. My approach would be perfectly pleasant and polite, but would demand to view the pics and if there were pics of my kids on there then i'd demand they deleted them - in fact I might go a step further and demand they re-format their memory card altogether as I wouldn't trust them to not recover the photo's later. Legal authority or not there is absolutely not a cat in hells chance of them leaving with photo's of my kids on their camera.
And if I did confront someone and if they did have photo's of my kids on their camera which they refused to delete to my satisfaction, that would only serve to confirm my concerns/worries/suspicions and things would escalate from there.
I even get a bit narked at friends posting pics that include my kids in them on social media. I think it's a bit wrong to do that without the permission of the parents. Nowt I can do about that I just have to take it, but I wouldn't take it from a total stranger deliberately targeting my kids with their camera. I wouldn't do it, if I was on my own with a camera in a public area i'd make sure that I wasn't pointing my camera in the direction of a bunch of other people's kids. And if I were genuinely taking pics of general people at a public place i'd seek out parents to ask permission because I am aware of the sensitivities being a parent myself.
Parents behaviour is not always logical or reasonable when it comes to their kids.
geetee1972Think about it; what possible harm or pernicious intent could a man with a camera taking pictures really have. If I had been female, do you really think they would have reacted the same way; would you?
No, but the majority of paedophiles are men. I'm not saying that to excuse what they did though as I empathise with you. What they did was stupid, irrational, prejudiced and reactionary and no doubt unpleasant for you.
To play devils advocate for just a second though, I have to imagine myself in their position, and if I was convinced a lone man was taking pictures directly of my children, I would go and politely ask to see the photographs. A single woman can't confront a man alone though, so you get the kind of mob reaction you recieved.
Now, removing my devils advocate hat, and replacing it with a street photographers one, I would say you should have kept on shooting. Take pictures of them as they screamed at you. Call the cops yourself and photograph them as they show up. It would make for a potentially great body of work.
OP your social radar is out. I am afraid people with this mentality frequent these places. It is not a scene from a fairground of a Mary Poppins movie at traveling fun fairs nowadays!
Legal authority or not there is absolutely not a cat in hells chance of them leaving with photo's of my kids on their camera.
I respect your position and in response to a polite request I would almost certainly comply (categorically that is not what happened here and I work on the assumption that you've acknowledged that).
But, and this is really important, for as much as I might respect your request and your view, you do realise that if you ask and I refuse, that really is all there is to it. You have no authority and neither do the police. And as others have pointed out, your kids are being photographed and observed a thousand times a day whenever they walk down the high street of any town or city in the UK. And in those instances, the observer is remote and unknown, sitting in a private building somewhere else. At least what I do is open and honest; I'm not hiding it form anyone.
This is important debate and it one I make with sincere respect and understanding. But the debate is about freedoms, from prejudice, from pernicious assumptions about your intent, about civil liberties. Your children, as are mine, are precious and the most important things in our world (I am a father of two young boys btw, not that I think that mitigates anything but it does show I understand your position), but taking pictures of them, either directly or by accident, is not evidence of evil intent nor does anyone have the right to demand you don't do it.
Geetee, you have my sympathies, it sounds like a nasty experience.
But without meaning to sound harsh, what did you expect might happen? Although your actions are completely innocent, other people don't know that.
To them, you're just a stranger with unknown motivations. Right or wrong, they're just protecting themselves. And when the mob-handed mentality descends there's no reasoning with them.
You should have called the police and let them resolve. Live and learn I guess.
I would say you should have kept on shooting. Take pictures of them as they screamed at you. Call the cops yourself and photograph them as they show up. It would make for a potentially great body of work.
^ My immediate thoughts.
Probably would've wound up wearing camera down throat along with teeth. For art!
When my dogs were attending puppy classes, there was a session where they had a small child on a scooter riding around the hall.
One of them really didn't like it, the noise and possibly the speed of movement.
The trainer suggested that I go and hang around at a playground with the puppies to get them used to children. I declined.
But without meaning to sound harsh, what did you expect might happen? Although your actions are completely innocent, other people don't know that.
I guess I was thinking that I shouldn't have to rely on other people not reaching stupid, illogical or baseless conclusions.
It's the same thing a 'slut shaming' or saying 'what did you expect was going to happen, you were drunk, dressed like a slut and in a bad neighbourhood on your own late at night?'
That's a vile line of reasoning and while my situation is different, it is the exact same logic.
There is nothing inherently wrong, permicious or vile about anyone taking a photograph of anyone, even a child, in a public place.
geetee1972It's the same thing a 'slut shaming' or saying 'what did you expect was going to happen, you were drunk, dressed like a slut and in a bad neighbourhood on your own late at night?'
I think you should probably avoid implying that what happened to you is in any way similar to rape, or rape apologists. I would say that's an ill advised comparison.
That's a vile line of reasoning and while my situation is different, it is the exact same logic.
I don't think that it is. At the end of the day, even though these women seem to be over reacting massively to your actions they are doing so out of some misguided form of parental instinct to protect their child.
geetee1972 -There is nothing inherently wrong, permicious or vile about anyone taking a photograph of anyone, even a child, in a public place.
Legally, you are correct. And you know your intentions were innocent. But. When the current laws were created it wasn't possible to take a photograph and instantly broadcast it or share to anyone or everyone in the world instantaneously.
then i'd demand they deleted them - in fact I might go a step further and demand they re-format their memory card altogether as I wouldn't trust them to not recover the photo's later. Legal authority or not there is absolutely not a cat in hells chance of them leaving with photo's of my kids on their camera.
You can demand till you are blue in the face, if it's in a publc space with no specific bylaws you will be told to jog on or the police would be called to be told to jog on politely.
Reformatting will just delete the directory and the images are easily recovered.
Geetee, (Greg?), what on earth were you thinking?
A single man with a camera ? At a fun- fair? Taking pictures?
Next you'll find yourself drawn to crowded beaches or 'God forbid', youth sporting events!!!!
It's a slippery slope.
Rise above it my man, you're not the problem. 🙂
Hope you're feeling better OP. Live and learn, some people are reactionary cockwombles. Personally, if I saw someone randomly snapping pictures at a fun fair my first thought would be 'Street Photography' and not 'Oh my Godz Peado' then again I like to think I'm fairly reasonable. Experience has taught me a lot of people aren't.
It sounds like you handled the situation well. I'd have probably started apologetic, but lost my shit when the shoving started. Never raised a hand to a woman, but reckon I could take six Carny ladies using the camera as a swingy weapon 🙂 (that's a joke hand wringers of STW)
Legally, you are correct. And you know your intentions were innocent. But. When the current laws were created it wasn't possible to take a photograph and instantly broadcast it or share to anyone or everyone in the world instantaneously.
This is sort of true but mass media is not a new thing. It has acquired a lot more mass recently but I'm not sure why it changes anything. I am of course entirely aware of peoples feelings, which is why i always react sensitively to these, thankfully rare, instances.
My other parallels are contentious I grant you, but since I was technically assaulted it's not quite the stretch in comparison you suggest. Ultimately their reaction was based prejudice and power. Everyone has natural urges and instincts and however laudable or natural they may be, that's no excuse for behaving in the way they didn't
My other parallels are contentious I grant you, but since I was technically assaulted it's not quite the stretch in comparison you suggest. Ultimately their reaction was based prejudice and power.
No mate it isn't a remotely close comparison.
"Technically assaulted".FFS. MTFU.
You could of walked away at anytime but chose not to as point of principle. How does that compare with a victim of rape or sexual assault? 🙄
I don't for a second think those women really, truly believed he was a paedophile. If they had, they would have called the police. I deal with morons like this all the time. They enjoy the confrontation and it's an easy one to be self-righteous about. It's also about asserting their "human rights". It's their kids innit.
Sorry this happened to you OP this and the reaction of some posters on here is reminding me of a Brass eye episode and the fact that the general public are complete idiots who oiver react to many situations
Its a public place folk where people may take pics the chances of them being a deranged paedo who wants pics of fully clothed kids in public places for their own sexual arousal is, to put it mildly, slim.
I'm afraid if I was at a fun fair, or any other public venue, and thought I saw a stranger taking pics of my kids i'd confront them. My approach would be perfectly pleasant and polite,
You might want to look up what confront means - come face to face with (someone) with hostile or argumentative intent- its quite hard to do this politely.
I get why we are all protective of our kids but here folk are over reacting massively due to their own inner paranoia of a highly unlikely to occur event
I had to drop my eldest son off at a scout camp night and my wife had said I could have an hour with my camera
Is disappointed with the direction that things went from here 😕
wobbliscott - Member
I'm afraid if I was at a fun fair, or any other public venue, and thought I saw a stranger taking pics of my kids i'd confront them. My approach would be perfectly pleasant and polite, but would demand to view the pics and if there were pics of my kids on there then i'd demand they deleted them - in fact I might go a step further and demand they re-format their memory card altogether as I wouldn't trust them to not recover the photo's later. Legal authority or not there is absolutely not a cat in hells chance of them leaving with photo's of my kids on their camera.
And if I did confront someone and if they did have photo's of my kids on their camera which they refused to delete to my satisfaction, that would only serve to confirm my concerns/worries/suspicions and things would escalate from there
Genuinely, why ?
What could somebody do with photos of (let's assume fully dressed) kids at a funfair/public space that would require you to act like that to prevent it ?
Presumably, as a stranger, there's no way of them even "tagging" the photos so they'd be anonymous whatever was done - never mind finding your address to follow up this contact (unless they work for some imaginary superspy agency or whatever)
"Technically assaulted".FFS. MTFU.
Yeah because I'm a bloke it's less of a prolem and you're OK with it.
Assaults, including rape, are always about power. This situation was no different. Why does my gender mean your reaction is 'mtfu'?
The majority of any abuse, including sexual, is carried out by someone known to the child. Mostly family members.
Statistically, there is more chance of those mums being child abusers than a single man with a camera in a theme park in the UK...
Legal authority or not there is absolutely not a cat in hells chance of them leaving with photo's of my kids on their camera.
And if I did confront someone and if they did have photo's of my kids on their camera which they refused to delete to my satisfaction, that would only serve to confirm my concerns/worries/suspicions and things would escalate from there
And what would you do if they refuse? You would break the law to stop someone else doing something perfectly legal?
Refusing to do something that they have no obligation to do doesn't confirm any suspicions. Some people simply like their freedoms and won't pander to this paranoia. By your own admission, you wouldn't be sure they actually had photos of your kids.
I too would not have put myself in that position. We/you can gnash teeth as much as we like about the state of affairs where this is the case but like it or not the general populous have decreed that people walking around in public talking photos that might contain images of children without the consent of their parents is not socially acceptable. Lets face it we live in a world where in a controlled environment like a school or hospital DRB checked members of staff are not permitted to take personal phones just in case this sort of thing might happen. Schools have registers of children who must under no circumstances be photographed.
For context I like a bit of photography but rarely takes photos where a person unknown to me is a key aspect of the photo's composition rather than an accidental bystander. When I have taken that sort of shot I have always asked permission first. edit - actually not 100% true - I've taken photos of windsurfers/kite boarders/para gliders from distance with a big telephoto without asking. I'm not sure from your explanation where the children might have featured in your shots - where you taking photos of the lights with no human in frame or was it more a photo of a whole merry go round with riders on it or more close up of an individual child on a merry go round?
Where does your 'moral compass' put your limit on what should be reasonable? Would you want to be able to go to a local park (without a child of your own present) and take photos of kids enjoying themselves. What about the same at a beech or local open air pool?
Yeah because I'm a bloke it's less of a prolem and you're OK with it.Assaults, including rape, are always about power. This situation was no different. Why does my gender mean your reaction is 'mtfu'?
Sexism, innit.
Take the Hasselblad next time GT, let them try and figure out how to delete the pics!
and here we have it turn into a mans right thread[ we are soooooo oppressed]
yes it was unpleasant but it was nothing like being raped and it was not really an expression of power or how weak and helpless men are
You do like to see the world as men being oppressed for some reason that facts dont support and now you will transform an encounter with some nobbers into a mans right issue where women oppressed you 🙄
included them shoving me. It ended because I walked away; I backed down in the face of hate and aggression and hostility (and a little fear – the bokes were starting to take an interest and while I could probably handle one on one, I’m too out of shape to be more aggressive).
Assaults, including rape, are always about power. This situation was no different. Why does my gender mean your reaction is 'mtfu'?
Simply because from your own admission, you weren't afraid of the 4 women. It was the "blokes" that caused any fear.
The 4 women didn't have any real power over you. If you had to it's very likely you could physically defended yourself against 4 "average" women if you had to.
and while I could probably handle one on one,
So you are confident in exerting violence against one man but are comparing getting "shoved" by a woman with rape? 🙄
Lets face it we live in a world where in a controlled environment like a school or hospital DRB checked members of staff are not permitted to take personal phones just in case this sort of thing might happen.
Although far more controlled, the children there are far more vulnerable to exploitation. The same is true in other scenarios like schools and sports coaching, although perhaps to a lesser extent.
Checks are a very crude gateway, they tell you little of value in over 90% of cases. The only thing a check flags up is really if you have known history. Managing risk and having rules around conduct in particular situations is at the core of child protection.
Where does your 'moral compass' put your limit on what should be reasonable? Would you want to be able to go to a local park (without a child of your own present) and take photos of kids enjoying themselves. What about the same at a beech or local open air pool?
So no photos anywhere children might be? No photos of your own kids anywhere like the above because you might capture another child in the same image?
yes it was unpleasant but it was nothing like being raped
4 times Junky??????
So you are confident in exerting violence against one man but are comparing getting "shoved" by a woman with rape?
The way I read it, he was comparing getting shoved with assault, not being raped.
So no photos anywhere children might be? No photos of your own kids anywhere like the above because you might capture another child in the same image?
It was a question, not a statement of what I think reasonable or unreasonable. Would you personally be happy that it should be socially acceptable to go to the beech and take photos of kids (not your own - you are there alone) splashing around in the water without the permission of the parents? I'm not prejudging your response - just interesting in a range of views of what should be ok.
Wobbliscott, I hope you pick on someone who stands up to you. Would a warning from the police temper your aggressive behaviour?