[Closed] something for the veggies to chew on...........

Probably, but that doesn't mean we need to eat it these days.

Kimbers is a closet caveman.

The Trill nibblers aren't going to be happy 🙂

There's a lot of evidence that brain expansion occurred first on the plains of Africa when we learned how to use tools to get the bone marrow out of whatever the Lions left behind.

I did a course at university run by these two:

http://www.deathfromadistance.com/summary.php

That basically explained everything much better than horizon. It's the most interesting thing I've ever read, you will think so too. Definitely.

So does that mean veggies used to eat meat then! They must of got there intelligence and air of superiority from somewhere! 😉

I've only been watching it for 15 seconds and already it's annoying the hell out of me 🙁

I actually love meat and would enjoy eating anything I caught - were I not too squeamish and sentimental to kill and eviscerate anything

flippinheckler - Member

They must [b]have[/b] got [b]their[/b] intelligence...

There you go, fixed that for you.

Gee I love being so intelligent and basking in my air of superiority. 😉

If you are too squeamish and sentimental to kill animals you should not be eating meat. Meat is animals and one shouldn't forget this - and yes I have killed and butchered beasts.

If you are too squeamish and sentimental to kill animals you should not be eating meat.

I don't

Bananaworld: do you only eat bananas?

Were it possible to live healthily on bananas alone, and if I could get a colony of banana plants going on an allotment in this country, I'd certainly consider it!

Om nom nom.

Yep, just checked the calendar. It's already the 2nd of the month so we are due a thread knocking eating habits. I am especially looking forward to that picture that says something like 'meat eaters - you are awesome, you don't need a self help group' and some intelligent postings about 'why should I serve vegetarian meals when vegetarian friends come for dinner...they don't cook me meat' etc etc

🙄

[i]If you are too squeamish and sentimental to kill animals you should not be eating meat[/i]

And if you are too squeamish to work down sewers then you shouldn't use toilets 🙂

And if you are too squeamish to work down sewers then you shouldn't use toilets

is it OK to shit in the garden ?

Kimbers is a closet caveman.

Cooking meat seems to have done something major though

I only saw that "cooking" had helped, not cooking one particular food type. Did everyone else watch a different show to me?

Time for this again...!
[img] [/img]

That was the impression I got by the end of the show too, CK, so I think this thread was started a wee bit prematurely.

Ho hum, at least it's got the veggie-bashing thread out of the way for the month. Tune in in April for the next installment, Barry!

Those internet pills not working hora?

[i]is it OK to shit in the garden ?[/i]
As long as you stay away from anything too prickly.

If you are too squeamish and sentimental to kill animals you should not be eating meat.

I don't

This was interesting, as I'm a lettuce muncher without a squeamish bone in my body. I would relish the chance to chase down, kill, and butcher an animal if I had to. I just don't have to.

And if you are too squeamish to work down sewers then you shouldn't use toilets

This was even more interesting, as a rare example of STW actually causing me to question my beliefs. This deft analogy exposes the weakness of the argument that you should be prepared to do something yourself in order to benefit from it.

I'm still not gonna eat animals till I have to, though.

Our whole society is now based on removing our "lives" from their impact. Whether that be hunting, killing and butchering animals or treating sewage.

IMHO if the greater society got to understand how much it costs to build, maintain and run water and sewage treatment in this country "we" may have a better understanding of why tax is essential. And apply this to any other civilisation supporting/creating activity.

I think of myself as intelligent and open minded. I was amazed though how little I appreciated the cost of water and sewage treatment until I started to work in the water industry. There is a lot of money wasted in red tape, design consultants, reviews etc. But basically our civilisation costs a LOT of money to keep running.

Oh tosh .
Scenario.
Man developing . Ok , wimmin too .
Oh look . A animul we are capable of catching and eating . Furthermore , seeing as how we've mastered the hot thing , we can warm it up a bit .
Needs salt .

Following day.
Blimey . Bit cold today . where all animuls ? . Oh look . Punctuation . Bonus .

Following day .
Even colder .
Are those some seasonal berries we have worked out by trial and fatal error ,wont kill us .
Dont eat them all , we'll save some for later .
Later .

I forgot the puctuation . it's brand new . Sue me .

Lets eat some more berries . NO WAIT ! . KILL THAT ANIMUL !!
Oh shit . it got away !! More punctuation . mega .
Ok . eat the berries then .

Following day .
If we be really quiet , and work as a team , A TEAM THAG ! , ( no , a team , not ' the A-Team , that's much later , the mescalin era ), where was I ?
Same day . cont ..... " A team Thag ! We could sneak up on that big fat newly emergent species over there and AS A TEAM , kill , cook and eat that .

Result .
Spread it about a bit , mix it with some berries . We could call it a balanced diet . Fat is utterly vital as an energy source . It'll ensure our survival as a species through the winter . Future civilisations will look on us as being the healthiest of all mankind . Apart from dying young , and that .

FFWD >>>>>>>>>Ages .

Manchester . Handlebar mustaches , beards , rippling bodices .

You know all this socialism is all well and good , but I reckon cows are just not good for you . Lets split off from ordinary opportunistic feeders , what ?

" We could call ourselves the " Split green pea society ' "

It'll never catch on ar kid .
" What about the middle class split green pea society ? "

Well , i'm sure people will be ok choosing one way or the other . They can be a capitalist farmer foaming at the mouth slave trader , or a eco beardo socialist mushroom nobbler .
We wont judge them one way or t'otherr r lad .

Early man R4 joke .
Fat , Udderly victual .

Time taken to explain to early woman .
way too long .

EPILOGUE .
THAG , hunter of beasts and muncher of berry , died a horrible lonely death at the age of 31 , because he failed to understand the need to pull together .
A Mammoth fell on him , which is another story ....

sleep , also vital

i thought agriculture was the start of civilisation, because we stopped chasing everything hunter/gatherer style and settled down in one place and developed housing, irrigation etc..

Row 5, column 3.

[img] [/img]

Defensive Omnivore Bingo is very funny. I have been in each of those scenarios. 😈

Its all funny, I'm a carnivore/omnivore I'm happy about it, you're a vegan/piscavore/fruitarian/veggy whatever, I'm happy about that too.

The biggest problem with us carnivores is that we refuse to admit the obvious, we eat meat for one reason only, we like it. We like the taste, texture and the feeling that an animal has died so they can enjoy this. As far as I can see there is not another really justifiable reason to eat meat, we don't actually need it.

So I say man up carnivores, stop making excuses about why you eat meat and be proud.

(PS this isn't irony, its true, I like eating meat.)
(PPS Muddyfox courier, that was very funny did you write that or was it lifted from somewhere?)

'why should I serve vegetarian meals when vegetarian friends come for dinner...they don't cook me meat' etc etc

MrsPP has been veggie for 20+ years, but it quite happy to cook meat for me or any of our guests. I can't stop her! Last night she made meatballs for my brother and his wife. So it follows she should expect the same in return, yes? 🙂

Some funny lines on this thread.... 🙂

The biggest problem with us carnivores is that we refuse to admit the obvious, we eat meat for one reason only, we like it.

Sweeping generalisation, I eat meat because I like it. Though I'm not so sure about the not requiring meat thing.

i thought agriculture was the start of civilisation, because we stopped chasing everything hunter/gatherer style and settled down in one place and developed housing, irrigation etc..

Again, not sure that's exactly true either, despite having agriculture no civilisation has (as far as I'm aware) ever stopped doing the hunting thing too, be it for mammals or fish.

coffeeking - Member
Sweeping generalisation, I eat meat because I like it. Though I'm not so sure about the not requiring meat thing.

I'm not sure if you sure disagreeing with me or not, I'll assume you are.

1) Sweeping generalisation - yup I'll agree I was speaking the general, as most others on here are about this topic, generalisations are not a crime per se, were you just making a factual statement about my generalisation or was it a criticism? Sometimes you have to speak in generalisations otherwise I'd have to make 100k odd separate statements to all the potential readers on here, how do you propose I resolve that?

2) All the non meat eaters in their various forms on here will agree with me that we do not need to eat meat (although I ought to modify that, I think we need fish) I know loads of veggies and vegans who are much healthier than me.

Sweeping generalisation

I don't know any omnivores who make excuses for liking meat. Your generalisation doesn't ring true as a general rule for me or my friends. This was my point.

2) All the non meat eaters in their various forms on here will agree with me that we do not need to eat meat (although I ought to modify that, I think we need fish) I know loads of veggies and vegans who are much healthier than me.

Sure, but just because some people live without meat for a large percentage of their lives (and claim fish isnt meat, oddly, because it's convenient) doesn't mean we don't need it. Our bodies can cope with different food sources, yes, but were never designed to consistently eat one type of food on some moral whim. People can survive long term starvation and droughts, but it's not advisable either. Your annecdotal evidence to the contrary is quashed by the 3 of the 4 veggies I know who are ill pretty much constantly and rather weak feeble individuals, showing that it is at the very least very difficult to get all the nutrients needed via a veggie diet (though not impossible), and the one that's healthy eats some odd concoctions of man-made chemicals as replacements. That said, most of the omnivores I know are mildly overweight so it swings both ways to some degree.

I'm not against veggies, each to his own etc, but veggies do have a tendency to try to villify omnis (another one of those sweeping generalisations!), so they should expect some return fire!

coffeeking - Member

Sweeping generalisation

I don't know any omnivores who make excuses for liking meat. Your generalisation doesn't ring true as a general rule for me or my friends.

Ahh well fair enough, as a confirmed carnivore and hunter, in my experience you are like me, a rare breed.

...the 3 of the 4 veggies I know who are ill pretty much constantly and rather weak feeble individuals...

Row 5, column 5

Graham, I was not using it as a reasoning/excuse, I was simply pointing out that there are arguments both ways and that examples of each can be used. It has nothing to do with excuses. Try taking part in the conversation instead of finding an image from the internet and sitting back smugly pointing at commonly used statements as if their presence on your image is somehow proof that they're wrong and you're right 😉

...the 3 of the 4 veggies I know who are ill pretty much constantly and rather weak feeble individuals...

whereas I'm veggie and far healthier (in body at least) than most people 🙂

but veggies do have a tendency to try to villify omnis

is that even true? I think it's a matter for one's own conscience.

Coffeking - you see this is why I say you should just propound the "I do it because I like it" theory, anything else will just go into reams of pointless argument.

As an aside you pointing out that a majority of your veggie mates are weak or feeble is just not scientific and a bit of a worse generalisation from the specific which is a logical fallacy.

I haven't seen any medical research that correlates vegetariansim with any illness. There is tons of medical research that correlates meat eating with illness. I am not advocatign vegetarianism, I love meat, and killing things for meat, I just want us carnivores to get our arguments straight so we can hold our heads high.

Any veggies here in favour of fox hunting? Save a few rabbits from a horrible death...

CoffeeKing, it's just a game.
The joke is that omnivores come up with the same limited number of comments on veganism, each time thinking they have thought up some witty, original justification for their diet, not realising that we have heard them all hundreds of times before.

"...there are arguments both ways and that examples of each can be used"

That's why scientists carry out research, to avoid arguments based on anecdotes.
However, if you want to swap anecdotes, I'll put this list up against the veggies you know.
http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=723

Any veggies here in favour of fox hunting? Save a few rabbits from a horrible death...

STWer in spectacular missing the point shocker....

The joke is that omnivores come up with the same limited number of comments on veganism, each time thinking they have thought up some witty, original justification for their diet, not realising that we have heard them all hundreds of times before.

I understand the "joke", but it's not really much of a joke if all you do is cover every available argument (both reasonable and stupid) - that's just refusing to argue and incorrectly claiming victory and smugness.
I didn't want to swap annecdotes, that was my [b]whole point[/b] and reasoning for putting it there.

STWer in spectacular missing the point shocker....

STWer in spectacular feeding the troll shocker 😉

But seriously, we, human beings, don't need to eat meat, fish, spam or any other animal products to live a long and healthy life, as has been proven by thousands of people.

Eat meat if you like it, go ahead. You don't need to, but if you don't see that it's needlessly cruel and wasteful, chow down, I won't judge. 😀

STWer in spectacular feeding the troll shocker

Yeah, sorry, I'm normally pretty good at trip-trapping past their posts.

I can easily see why vegetarians get defensive about having to deal with us meat eaters - they generally get a raw deal when we focus our attention on them.

However, with most vegetarians I think that there is generally something lacking - for example mint sauce or horseraddish - in order to bring out the very best in them.

Literally consuming the body of another animal to gain its strength.

Eating meat rules.

The programme was about the benefits of cooking food, not just meat-eating. It reckoned that our brains grew bigger once we started cooking.

I like the fact that modern day civilisation started when we invented beer. You can't brew beer if you're a nomad, so everybody had to stop in one place and start growing wheat.

Did I 'lift it from somewhere ' ? er ....
pay more attention at the back .
That came right after my 'who should we execute ....' thread reply .

It's the caffiene .

We're just all too bloody clever for our own good .
If one or two of us in relative isolation make a decision to live /eat / dress a certain way , then I suppose that's OK .
But , I'm worried that if some idea that is basically not dead good for the whole , takes hold , then as a species our goose could be cooked .
I've seen every argument there is for veggie , vegan , carnivore , omnivore , the lot .
I have done extensive research , over many years .
I'm tired now .
Take our time here as a species .
we lived a certain way for a very very long time .
We positively thrived that way . Animal fat was the single biggest factor in this species surviving the harsh winters before Ant + Dec.
Then .
In the last ten seconds , relatively speaking , 'experts ' tell us to do this /that/t'other .
They dont reeeeally know .
There hasnt been enough time elapsed to really know the outcome.

I dont know .

I'm fairly certain of this though . Before morals /conscience / whatever was 'invented ' we ate opportunistically . We are basically a predator . But a lazy one . We'd have settled for roadkill .

Now we have a choice . It's delivered to the door . We are influenced by external pressures to live /eat / listen / love /drive / illuminate/televise/ communicate , a certain way .

They dont really know what's best .

Time will tell .

Regardless of what/ how we eat , I think the biggest problem is that we have lost the direct connection with our food .

Just maybe ,vegetarianism is the next big evolutionary leap .
I hope not .
I enjoy a nice medium rare steak . Finest.
But today , I had a salad for lunch .I enjoyed that too.
In between I munched some nuts .
And one of them 'Caramel ' bars .
8 Million sold every week .

What we eat is dictated by capitalism . You just think youre choosing.

Eat meat if you like it, go ahead. You don't need to, but if you don't see that it's needlessly cruel and wasteful, chow down, I won't judge.

In what way is it wasteful?

It's all to do with the position you occupy in a food chain. The higher up in the food chain you go, the more energy is wasted. This is because not all the energy consumed by an organism is available for consumption by those higher up the food chain. By positioning yourself lower down the food chain (though, as humans, we're still at the top) less energy is pissed away by fat cows burping their way through the day.

(Please excuse my shaky grasp of ecology, but I think the main points are there.)

There is also the issue of the not-small difference in the amount of water needed to produce a animal compared to the amount needed to grow a sack of spuds.

In a seperate issue, do those that eat meat really, [i]really[/i], REALLY see nothing wrong with killing a sentient being when you don't need to?

I can see plenty of things wrong with it. But not enough to stop me doing it.

In a seperate issue, do those that eat meat really, really, REALLY see nothing wrong with killing a sentient being when you don't need to?

And there you have it - some people do, some people don't. I didn't used to, but the more I chew (sorry) over the concept in my head, the harder I find it to justify forcing pregnancy on an animal in order to make it produce milk for us (instead of its young), then taking the young away and "raising" them in order to one day, say, "hey ho, moo cow, you're meat now!".

That and the ready availability of other sources of protein that won't be hanging around my colon for the next year or so, mean that my meat consumption is miniscule now and I suspect that the longer I think about it, the closer I'll get to consuming line caught fish only.

It is a great STW tradition to criticise non meat eaters [vegan myself] for our choices. I have yet to see a thread us questioning the meat eater habits.
Did like the bingo and heard it all before.

My view is much like sfb I dont want to kill things [granted tasty things] to stay alive and dont need to do this so I choose not to. I think it is a better way to live but accept each person can make their own choice and I care not one jot what you eat or what you consume. Health wise you could be an ominivore and be healthy or unhealthy and the same applies to veggies and vegans. I would note we have a minimum number of fruit and veg to eat per day and not one for meat....suggesting one is more necessary than the other.

My favourite incident was being questioned about indoctrinating my kids to my world view by refusing to let them eat meat and deciding there dietary habits....this came for a devout Muslim man who sent his children to Islamic school, the mosque for 2 hours a day and 5 hours at the weekend and made both his children memories the Quaran ...the irony. When people say let them eat meat and decide I suggest they let their kids smoke fags and then decide to quit later if they want 😉

There are some pious non meat eaters who dont realy help persuade anyone of anything except that some non meat eaters are knobs.

deadlydarcy - Member
...That and the ready availability of other sources of protein that won't be hanging around my colon for the next year or so...

Sounds like something dreamt up by a enema enthusiast.

" I would note we have a minimum number of fruit and veg to eat per day and not one for meat....suggesting one is more necessary than the other."

Or perhaps one is less popular than the other so there's a need to attempt to modify diets accordingly?

Perhaps it is because the World Health Organisation has recommended that we eat a minimum of 400g of fruit an veg to reduce the risk of serious health problems like heart attacks, strokes, obestiy Type 2 diabetes
Diet is linked to 1/3 of all cancers and after NOT smoking eating more fruit/veg is the singlest best thing to do to reduce this risk.
Whatever your dietary choices the evidence is not really in dispute as to the benefits of eating more fruit /veg and iirc reducing your intake of red meant in particular.

...That and the ready availability of other sources of protein that won't be hanging around my colon for the next year or so...

our guts will digest most of what we eat, bar cellulose (grass, wood etc) which we're not suited to and have no appetite for, but even the things we're not able to digest are carried through to the far end unless a) they can swim upstream b) they are spiky and get stuck. All this talk about impacted wossnames in the gut is tosh

[i]Whatever your dietary choices the evidence is not really in dispute as top the benefits of eating more fruit /veg and iirc reducing your intake of red meant in particular.[/i]

Quite true.
But it made me think of countries where fruit and vegetables are (or at least I imagine they are) a scarcity.
Iceland was the first that sprung to mind, so I googled their life expectancy and to my surprise found it was the 3rd highest in the world.
So I'm guessing there's a bit more involved in staying healthy than eating lots of fresh fruit and veg.
Now I'm not for one moment attempting to infer from this that therefore eating triple cheeseburgers for breakfast, lunch and dinner would thus be a healthy option, but just wondering how countries such as Iceland fit into the fresh fruit and veg mantra?

Do you think Iceland imports all its fruit and veg?
Clearly excercise and other factors are important in heath /life expectancy

sfb and epicyclo, fight it put with the pious ones. My choice is, like Junkyard's, purely personal and my choice in reducing my red meat consumption is primarily because I can't zero my liking for a steak with killing an animal (or having someone else do it for me). The chances that it will reduce my risk of wearing a colostomy bag later in life is a fortunate side effect. Of course, the fact that I was stupid enough to smoke for years may have already rolled the dice for me.

Throw off the shackles of timid Christianity and quit this hubris. Asceticism went out with the monks; hair shirts and divinely ordained eating plans dividing sacred and immoral foods.

The moment a cow clip clops out a question about what tyres for their 29er is the moment I'll reconsider the 'cruelty' of farming tasty din-dins. Until then, yes, i think i will chow down. Yum.

The moment a cow clip clops out a question about what tyres for their 29er is the moment I'll reconsider the 'cruelty'

this handy criterion also allows you to eat babies and non English speakers

yawwwn... Just get stopped by this one:

whereas I'm veggie and far healthier (in body at least) than most people

Too what I reply. I am not a veggie I eat meat and I am far healthier than you (and therefore than most people).

puwned.

this handy criterion also allows you to eat babies and non English speakers

Thank goodness for farming; it'd be an awful decision to make. Babies tend to be plumper. With the obvious exceptions of Americans and Germans, clearly.

eat babies

Actually, that reminds me of one of my favourite films, [i]Dumplings[/i] - more a rumination on femininity and beauty but grand stuff nonetheless.

I am far healthier than you (and therefore than most people).

I'm going on the fact that most people get ill but I don't, but perhaps you have some other measure involving digging or rights of way observance ?

[i]Do you think Iceland imports all its fruit and veg?[/i]
Pretty much yes. Although it's got agriculture it would appear to be sheep and dairy based.
So the question is, do they (and have they always) import vast amounts of it, or are other factors far more important in ultimately determining health?
This isn't meant to be antagonistic, I'm genuinely interested in what the research indicates.

I'm going on the fact that most people get ill but I don't, but perhaps you have some other measure involving digging or rights of way observance ?

I can't be arsed reading everything or watching the program. Was the consensus that vegetarians have higher IQ's because intelligent people are more likely to a) hang round in vegetarian circles and b) be more likely to actually think about what they're eating or was it some bollocks about no meat making you cleverer?

edit: just to clarify, if it's the latter then it's bollocks.

No way would a baby fit in my George Foreman grill.

*fires up the bbq*

Oh, another 'study' determining that living in the dark ages is the way to go. 🙄

I mean, seriously - so what if eating meat did help our brains to get bigger? Now we have constant food sources, we can (if we can be bothered) eat well balanced diets at all times of the year. Maybe our brains would've got even more huge if those prehistoric men were taken out of the caves and put straight onto a 21st century vegan diet.

I can't be doing with ANY of this 'it is/is not natural to eat meat. Then it isn't natural to live until 90, in constantly heated houses, to freeze food, to use insulin if you are diabetic.....etc etc

As humans (in the world as it is right now) we have the ability to make choices for the better and to minimise suffering. I never understand why some meat eaters get so offended by veggies/vegans. What's so bad about being compassionate?

So the question is, do they (and have they always) import vast amounts of it, or are other factors far more important in ultimately determining health?

the best nutrition advice on what to eat is relatively straightforward: Eat a plant-based diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and whole grains; choose healthy fats, like olive and canola oil; and eat red meat and unhealthy fats, like saturated and trans fats, sparingly.

Even on STW we will be very lucky if the hive mind throws up an expert on Icelandic life expectancy and diet.

What's so bad about being compassionate?

it's not considered [b]manly[/b] 🙁

littlegirlbunny - Member
I never understand why some meat eaters get so offended by veggies/vegans. What's so bad about being compassionate?

+ 1 what littelgirlbunny said.

As a meat eater I cannot understand why my fellow carnivores feel the need to give veggies a hard time. I also cannot understand why veggies feel the need to give meat eaters a hard time. I have no problem with you being compassionate, as long as I don't have to be. Like I said before there is only one reason in our ,modern western society to eat meat, because you like it.

^^^thats not true. certainly is this country anyway,the main factor is cost your average family cannot see past the cost of fresh food be it fruit veggie or meat.
most families no they can have a take out for £20
most family s. also no they can provide a healthy balanced meal for £20 also.

but the later takes time and effort and as the breakdown of family mealtimes continues,more and more children eat what there given be it wrong or right.
most but not all of these children, cant cook, don't no what a healthy meal consist of, and when a healthy meal is put in front of them it looks strange and unappetising.

also if you live in europe ive also found that not eating meal is quite normal,and not regarded as being weird.but if you don't like fish people do look at you in a different manner.

i sometimes wonder if our eating habits arnt more controlled by americas dominance in cheep food than what we as a country choose to buy.

21st century vegan diet.

15th century piety? No thanks. Get thee to a nunnery!

Whether you 'choose ' one way to eat or another , it's like this .
The human body is extremely complex .
We/they ( whoever 'they ' are ) can only really best guess what's going on in there.
You might 'feel ' better 'choosing' to eat leaves . If you feel better then I'm happy for you . There's some value in feeling good .
But youre obviously clouded by emotions .
Fueling the body shouldnt be emotive .

I feel good just having a fairly balanced diet .
I eat meat . Sometimes red , sometimes light . Some fish . Some veg . Some fruit .
I dont drink alcohol .
I dont drink milk . ( Although lately I'm slipping up on that a bit )
I do drink coffee . probably too much .
But I also am partial to herbal 'tea ' .
I drink lots of water .

I feel OK .
I'm 41 .
i work in construction . The sharp end . I do OK .
What's the problem ?

Rather than obsessing over being , say , herbivore , or carnivore , or omnivore , we should take more time to get connected with what we eat .The quality of it .
I did say above , I think , that meat was vital in our development . Animal fat was what saw us through harsh winters .
You can argue that these days that's irrelevant , maybe it is , but today I'm certain that all our foods are tainted by capitalist agenda.
meat is intensively farmed . Pumped with steroids / anti biotics etc .
Milk , a handy bi-product is similarly processed . Dairy products find their way into a myriad products .
Plant crops are farmed with equal zeal to maximise profit. They dont tell us everything that they GM .

Do you really think a product , sold at Tescoburys , with a little green ' V' on the packet , Low fat this , Low salt the other , is really a healthy 'choice ' to make .

We all need to get used to it though . Dont we ?

Organic food is all well and good . Before it was 'invented ' as a clever ' choice ' that was how all ordinary food was , wasnt it ?
You know ? A bit back ? My grandparents had a pen out the back . Rabbits , chickens , greens .

So it's simple .

We'll all of us go organic , eh ?
organic meat is fantastically good for you . have you tasted organic chicken ? Lovely . Dont confuse taste or satisfaction with nutrition though . That's something else .
Nutritionally organic vs non organic is neither here nor there.
Not your thing , eh ?
Ok , Organic broccoli . Carrot . Potato .
We can do it all old school . It's easy .
Yummy as . Just stick it in the ground with some shit. There's ground all over the place . There's some just there . i can see it .
It grows itself , by magic.

WE could all of us support our local farmers and producers too .
make a low mileage trip to the farmshop every week . It might cost a bit more , in money , but the value to society would be great .
He grows his spuds/carrots / asparagus in one field , and grazes cow and sheep in the next .No chemicals or owt .

If we all did it , or just a few more of us did it , the big money supermarkets would have to react . They would typically be aggressive . We'd have to , er dig - in.
Dig for victory .

of course , there'd be no oranges . Oranges arent the only fruit , someone once said . We could be happy with apples and pears , eh ? When theyre seasonal of course . Strawbs would be nice . For about a month .
I'd miss bananas , even if just for their comedy value .

You can have a fair bit of fun with a cucumber , though . Can you grow them over here ?

Is that the answer ?

Please discuss . I'm enjoying this .

Do we have nuts over here ?

[img] [/img]

'shudders'

zzzzzzz - uh ?

>I also cannot understand why veggies feel the need to give meat eaters a hard time.

Because there are moral/ethical/ecological arguments to not eat meat, but not vice versa (I guess there is landscape management that occurs with keeping livestock, but you could argue that's only 1000s or years old)

(FWIW I eat meat, but it does p*ss me off the way some meat-eaters try to be a bunch of smart-arses...)

>Nutritionally organic vs non organic is neither here nor there.

Unfortunately that's always the thing that gets quoted by pepople taking the piss out of organic farming. IMO the ecological element's the most important bit.

Yea . definitely too much coffee .

I'm not taking the piss out of organic .
It's definitely better .

In nearly every way.

hello!