[Closed] So why do we let these people ? live ?

It's not about revenge, it's about stopping re-offending.

[i]and you are a parent...........[/i]

.....as was the person who committed terrible sex acts on them whilst photoing it.

I'm not saying it's easy Ton, and I certainly don't think calling each other fascists and lefties is going to settle anything - our society is undoubtedly not working for all it's members but blame and retribution is not going to help anyone, certainly not the victims.

Surely the differences of opinion shown here illustrate just how difficult the issue of how 'society' deals with those whose behavior it deems unacceptable really is.

We cannot, should not and must not create a justice system based upon the reactionary & emotional need (of an enraged minority) for revenge.

but think of financial benifits for the country, we could have guillotine factories! It'll keep the skill base in the UK, sell tickets, have little momentos made up from bits of executed paedos... the list is endless.

So did Churchill deserve to die for his, or Eisenhower or JFK??

Violence is wrong, the thirst for revenge is strong but just makes things worse maybe not for the individual who's revenge is satisfied, but for everyone else, society is demeaned by it.

You know, ask not for whom the bell tolls etc...

Grumm? explain yourself you ****ing moron.

Jails are full, yet crime rate down - hmmmm.... Does that perhaps mean we are locking up more people for lesser crimes and handing out longer sentences? Or maybe just catching more criminals?

Do you realise that when you read a story in the Sun or the Daily Mail whining about someone receiving a lenient sentence, they are reporting it because it's not the norm? No, didn't think so.

It's not about revenge, it's about stopping re-offending.

This has been studied for many years by me and some far more superior minds.

What makes you think you have suddenly got all the answers?

hilldodger
i could not agree with you more....
but we all have our opinon mate, and some things affect everyone differantly.

[i]did adolf and his cronies deserve to die

of ****ing course they did... [/i]

Except of course those cronies whose technical knowledge and skills were deemed useful for the UK/US/USSR to facilitate further bloodshed

hilldodger - Member

So how do you deal with someone who kills/tortures/degrades a person they honestly and sincerely believe 'deserves it' ???

Made me chuckle 8)

joolsburger

i asked you a question mate??

Chop the peedos up and make them into sausages
Feed them to the unemployed and cripples, but don't cook them properly, so the unemployed and cripples die anyway.

Sorted.

Sex crimes, murders, the mass underclass, drugs, theft.
These crimes/ people are all escalating year after year because of the failure of the justice system, which over the last 50 years has year on year become more relaxed in its way of dealing with it.

It's not just a failure of the justice system, it's a failure of wider society which we are all part of and responsible for. So lets kill all those who happen to be the unfortunate side effects of how we run society.

just 1 question to all you guys who think it is wrong to execute people who commit sick crimes against babies/toddlers/children.

how many of you are parents.

It's quite offensive that you believe that us parents should all think like you Ton.

Why don't we just "sole" them? It's like scalping, but removing the bottom of the feet instead. It costs next to nothing ([url= http://www.rockcorps.com/aboutus.asp ]rockcorps[/url] could sort out volunteers) and then we could make them pay their way by providing entertainment outside Galleries showing photos of [url= http://www.****/news/article-1216924/Brooke-Shields-nude-10-year-old-Tate-Modern-display-nude-giant-pornographic-images.html ]naked ten year old girls oiled up and dripping in makeup[/url] .It would probably be vetoed by the Rt Hon Ben Bradshaw MP, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media & Sport who tonight on bbc1 pretended to be unaware of the details of the Polanski drugging and sodomising of a 13yr old girl "fiasco" just breaking...after 30 years.

ton - Member

hilldodger
i could not agree wife you more....
but we all have our opinon mate, and some things affect everyone differantly.

That's the trouble isn't it! if we all thought the same how delightful the world would be.....

.....ummm maybe not, damn need another theory for world peace !

anyway Ton, this is going to go on for ages so I'll catch up with you tomorrow on about page 7 I guess 😉

ChubbyBlokeInLycra- isn't that what donner kebabs are for?

Chop the peedos up and make them into sausages
Feed them to the unemployed and cripples, but don't cook them properly, so the unemployed and cripples die anyway.

Sorted.

😆

It's quite offensive that you believe that us parents should all think like you Ton. Not all of us are that stupid.

damn, this thread's hard to walk away from...

..I don't think Ton's doing any more than expressing his opinion - it's pretty hard to advocate compassion and understanding to abusive criminals then slag a bloke for saying what he thinks...

..def off for a cuppa now !

hilldodger
horlicks for me.........night kids. sleep tight.. 😉

They deserved to die about as much as Churchill, Stalin, Eisenhower or any other so called "war leaders".

All of them were criminals to my mind I could cite examples like Dresden, Hiroshima and so on.

Killing people just isn't good, humankind have been down that road and we know where it leads.

Grumm? you are a deluded fool!

Crime rates down? spin? free methodone for junkies cutting crime? less people reporting because lack of police? police paperwork? classed as not serious? deaf ears?
Jails are full because 'MORE' people 'ARE' committing crime.
Fiscals are dishing out untold fixed penalties for minor offence's these are not criminally recorded.
Judges are handing out more and more community service orders to ease the burden.
I don't read newspapers.

They deserve to live just as much as the British soldiers who slaughtered civilians on the streets of Derry on 30/01/72.

Jails are full because 'MORE' people 'ARE' committing crime.

Oh dear!

Could also be due to the reams of new legislation the government have introduced 'criminalizing' more people?

There are more people hence more crime the percentages don't shift that much.
Pretty obvious.

JacksonPollock?
Did I say I've got all the answers? explain yourself man?

"government have introduced 'criminalizing' more people?"
Again fully explain yourself?

For me it's either 'put to sleep', 'medically treated' or 'detained for life'
The death penalty lives on in a way, as some of the innocent victims cannot live with the afteraffects and take their own lives.
Oh and don't bother telling that could go for the offender too, living with the guilt

???

You are obviously an irrational, fly off the handle sort of a chap. That is why people like you (thankfully) don't shape policy.

Love all this talk of capital punishment and random members of a cycling forum talking about wanting to personally execute people. I suppose if there is ever a radical rethink of the justice system the powers that be will know where to find their stone cold killers.

Or it could be more waffling tripe from severely jumped up self opinionated tossers on ego trips that has nothing to do with the real world.

Chemical castration supposedly works on paedos. They could do that, or I suppose we could let the regulars on here have their way. Would be a long and protracted not to mention embarrassing death.

Yes, thankfully for people like you.
self explanatory really.

Oh and fwiw

http://comments.theherald.co.uk/heraldtalk/2009/02/scottish-murder-rate-one-of-highest-in-europe.php

Grumm, do yourself a massive favour, join the prison service, work with these 'people' & wake up & smell the coffee. I'm getting on a bit, have seen a bit of the world & know EXACTLY what type of folk I'm dealing with (on a daily basis) if you think myself & my colleagues should be sacked for what I said/think, well if that happened there'd be no prison staff left, except for you & your type. The prisoners would be happy though eh? & that sounds like thats all that matters to you.
PS, I'm probably one of the most popular officers on my wing, I treat every prisoner with total respect, no matter what their offence, but it doesn't stop me realising which ones are a total drain on society, & which ones will never contribute to a decent & safe public environment.

Thought you said you didn't read papers!?

Example of more legislation 'criminalizing' more people: Crime & Disorder Act 1998, before which there was no such thing as an ASBO.

By all means carry on your reactionary frothing, but I won't be arguing anymore.

the good old days of the holocaust, mass murder of Japanese civilians by Atomic weapons,

but what about the murder of scores, possibly tens of thousands of civilians by Japanese soldiers in China? If the bombs hadn't been dropped, causing Japan to sue for peace, and the war had got onto the Japanese mainland, the death toll would have been incalculable, because the Japanese samurai mindset would never have allowed them to give up. Nagasaki was unessessary, though.
I don't advocate capital punishment, but paedofiles seem to be incapable of being rehabilitated, as they don't seem capable of understanding that what they do is wrong, or at least the ones I've seen interviewed don't, anyway. My preference would be a totally isolated prison with just basic living standards and no luxuries, and zero chance of parole. Let them work as gardeners or other menial type jobs that have some value to society, ie produce that can be sold to cover running costs, but their lives would be not unlike those of monks or nuns. Total isolation from outside society. Chemical castration possibly won't work on women, and they seem to be more common than one would imagine.
I'm sure this suggestion will meet with disapproval, but to my mind it fulfills all the requirements' while avoiding feeding the bloodlust.

Love all this talk of capital punishment and random members of a cycling forum talking about wanting to personally execute people. I suppose if there is ever a radical rethink of the justice system the powers that be will know where to find their stone cold killers.

Well that's the point isn't it ? This is [i]just[/i] a cycling forum.

Paedophilia as crimes go is pretty nasty, and one which most people find particularly vile. So when cases are publicised, they trigger a lot of anger and revulsion. Unfortunately there is bugger all that most of us can do about that, apart that is, to express our anger and revulsion.

And what better place to do it on than an utterly inconsequential cycling forum ? We can to our heart's content, rant and rave totally irrationally about what we would like to do to these vile criminals, safe in the knowledge that it is completely meaningless.

And despite being totally against the death sentence, I have no problem with anyone claiming that they would like to [i]flog 'em and hang 'em and flog 'em again[/i]. Because it ain't going to happen. And if anyone feels offended by that, then they are probably taking an internet forum too seriously. Paedophilia is a particularly vile crime, why shouldn't people react by spouting completely irrational nonsense ?

Since this thread has become so [i]emotional[/i] I'd like to point out that I recently commented on another thread, that the law of probabilities states that there is very likely the odd paedophilia or two on here (sorry 😐 ) But what is absolutely certain, is that there will be the some who have been abused as children. It's a sad fact that it is [i]inconceivable[/i] a forum this size doesn't contain some victims - child abuse is simply too widespread for that not to be the case. Something which is worth remembering, before we are quick to condemn and pass judgement on others.

some very sad comments on this thread

Very wise words Mr. Lynch. Don't often agree with you but right there you are spot on.

Right I only read the first two third of the first page and the last very eloquent and sensible comment (as usual I have to admit) from griz (btw guess which bvd I ride angela through this morning ;)).
For the people who said what would you do if it was your child, well I guess I'll go bersek, but that is why I trust the state to stop me from seeking revenge and actually provide justice. Second, deth penalty is never going to stop these crimes. One obvious reason is that people that commit such crimes are just compeltly ****ed up and might not even grasp the concept of being put down (i know not thebest choice of words here).
Third there is a very interesting news in France at the moment about how someone that have been jail and chemically castrated has violently murdered someone a few days ago. Obviously first reaction of the scumbag that act as president has been to say that new law bla bla bla bla. A police reply saying that the system would work perfectly as it is, provided you poor money into it to make it work.
If such things happen it's because the society as whole have missed something. The sole reason fro a society to exist is to protect every and single one of its member. That is why we have hospitals, school, public servant and so and so. To make sure that we can try to form as many independant and sociable being as the society can.
Just some food for thoughts of rather famous french bloke said once "Open a school, you'll close one jail".

If someone were to sexually abuse, torture and then photograph my kids I'm afraid I'd end up in prison for my subsequent actions. It would be the end of my marriage/life, but life wouldn't be worth living anyway ......

Why dont we stick em all in the navy and let em get buggered to death!

I think all posters of mindless drivel should be put to death

off you go then....

I've just been reminded why I haven't spent much time on STW over the last couple of years.

Maybe it's the new site design, but I could have sworn I was on the Daily Mail site just now...

All the raging bloodlusters who keep chanting "How wud u feel if it woz 1 off yours?" need to stop, calm down and think. Do you want a justice system based on rational facts and sensible consideration of the problems, or one based on emotions, anger and revenge? Welcome back to the Dark Ages.

I think I might stick to the bike threads these days. Wingnutry like this is a bit too Littlejohn for my tastes.

what is absolutely certain, is that there will be the some who have been abused as children. It's a sad fact that it is inconceivable a forum this size doesn't contain some victims - child abuse is simply too widespread for that not to be the case

Absolutely. What is interesting would be the thoughts of those victims regarding the execution of their tormentors when in all likelyhood, they were either family members or at least known to them.

How about giving them a Frontal lobotamy?
Probably still too harsh for most. I'd like to know that people like this will never be released from jail at least. There has never been a recorded instance of a peadophile being rehabilitated or "cured", we have to accept that the sexual urges of humans are too ingrained to be reversed and as such must take harsher measures to protect our young from these animals. No register should be required as sex criminals should never be released. Personally, this story really upsets me and I only hope that the kids are never able to recall what has happened to them.

My veiws on this are deeply divided.
On one hand I see people like this as a disease who's actions totally contradict the whole meaning of life which is to simply live. They are like a cancer cell needing to be destroyed. Keeping people like this in our society is not at all civilised in any way, child abuse is actually very uncivilised and trying to understand them and what they do afterwards is good for what? from what I understand she in no way resemebled the stereotypical profile of an abuser. And we've gaoled people for years now and are we any closer to predicting when a murderer or rapist might act?
Then there's this. Something that has stuck with me for ages and something I think whenever I see or hear of a person being arrested, tried and sentenced for a crime.
My mates old dad (may he RIP) was a postal worker and was a close friend of the man that was hung for a crime he didn't commit. And bu$$er me I can't think of the case right now.
Anyway there's always that and there always will be.

The headline in The Metro this morning is:

[center][b]"Skin Them and Roll Them in Salt" [/b][/center]

Which makes last night's orgy of vigilante fantasism look pathetic and utterly lacking in imagination and artistic flair. Shame on you, wannabe medievalists! 8)

Following some of the negative remarks I copped for after 'polanskigate', I really didnt want to post on here, but sometimes I just cant resist...
I do understand what Ton and some of the other blokes on here are saying, but as ernie quite rightly said, due to our current laws, etc, it aint gonna happen. Chemical castration has been suggested by one or two people, but the trouble is, that only stops the physical arousal, ie stops you getting a hard on - all the drives and urges remain, in spite of whatever physiological changes the medication has created. I'm probably saying something that I shouldnt, but I personally dont believe you can 'cure' paedophilia, so what are the answers?
First off, short term sentencing is a waste of time - these people dont come out of prison after four years thinking 'well that showed me', and to be frank, incarceration alone doesnt really teach them anything, due mainly to the fact they are segregated in wings with people that have often commited similar acts, which sadly allows them to reinforce their beliefs that what they have done is in someway 'normal'. My main roles in working with offenders are risk assessment and risk management - sadly, the furthest progress I see is the awareness that society views what they have done is wrong, but that very rarely do the perpetrators manage to internalise that and see it as wrong themselves. I'm concsious that I'm ramling a bit here, but it's not really easy to discuss these kind of issues without overstepping my professional boundaries. In an ideal world, we would have long stay facilities (and in certain cases I mean life-long) for paedophiles, where their level of risk could be monitored accurately, and managed safely both for them and for the public. As for the question 'how would you feel if it was your kids?' I would answer by saying I have four kids, the youngest two are adopted and came from abusive backgrounds, so sadly, I know exactly how it feels.

I must say that I admire you, Mitch.
Not only do you do a very difficult job but you have also adopted abused children.
I feel quite humbled.