Well it does exist really doesn't it? Clearly you're not at work. So 30k pa is still 2.5 a month. And fwiw I do think teachers are worth that kind of salary.
have you done either and have you tried being a teacher?
No Anagallis I havent done either. But I have a son about to do a tour and I do work very close with social workers. Being a foster carer taking all the hours we do into consideration we get £1.59/hr and no holidays.
Couldnt bring myself to strike from that to be honest.
Brilliant well done you but how is this important for teachers?
Are teachers really hard done by? Its important for them that they realise we are all in the same boat, a bankrupt country?
Oh right yeah that old bollocks. But tell me whats your £ 1:50 an hour git to do with me?
Your overpayed
Your teacher was certainly overpaid.
as was yours
Are teachers really hard done by? Its important for them that they realise we are all in the same boat, a bankrupt country?
Bankrupt is hyperbole really isn't it?
Pay isn't that good considering the hours that are actually done, the stress, the lack of discipline, the poor management and government interference.
The people doing it are helping, probably more than any other sector, to ensure that this country can be successful in the future, without a first class education system this country will eventually go to the dogs, how much are we willing to pay to ensure that doesn't happen?
If conditions worsen the only people who are teaching will be the people who can't get jobs outside of teaching, i.e. the crap ones, what you really want is for people to want to teach because it is a highly cherished and well paid job where they feel valued.
The strike might in the long term have more negative than positive outcomes for teaching, but I can't say I blame them for making a stand.
Don't have time to pen a proper response now, will check back in a few weeks when I'm on holiday.
Understand your concerns but you cant condone striking we are all under stress at work. The more you care the more you have to stress about. Dont we all want higly cherished and well payed jobs but we dont all go on strike.
Couldnt bring myself to strike from that to be honest
So. ?
You're not a teacher, so what relevance does that have to anything.
Understand your concerns but you cant condone striking
Well actually...
I can.
And I do.
what you really want is for people to want to teach because it is a highly cherished and well paid job where they feel valued.
I'm not entirely sure I want teachers to be doing it for the money - ie you shouldn't be needing high salaries to attract the best. Not that this is a suggestion they're paid too much.
joepose - MemberUnderstand your concerns but you cant condone striking
Watch us.
Care yo explain how you justify the overpaid claim? As I could jumo ship to the private sector for longer holidays more pay and the same pension.
What is the pay aa? Is it around 30k? And come on, there's no way you could get a job in the private sector with as much "holiday".
As for a pension what's that? My "pension" is tied up at the moment in mine and hers parents. 🙄
We are pretty close to bankrupcy.Many government departments and activities run by the state are having redundancies and selling assets.
Fwiw if teachers want to strike then go for it but you need to work on your pr. People aren't blaming those with the purse strings and asking to help you out they are blaming teachers for not looking after the kids.
Is the strike going to serve any purpose, do you think it helps your cause?
What do you do Wrightyson, what are the pay and conditions like?
at least the teachers have the balls to stand up for themselves not like the majority of UK workers who are letting the Government roll all over them
rOcKeTdOg - Member
at least the teachers have the balls to stand up for themselves not like the majority of UK workers who are letting the Government roll all over them
+1
I'm in construction! I manage anything from big factory builds up to £10 million to sitting on a mini digger. That's how we work as a very small company. Just two of us. Before the last 18 months we hadn't done any industrial work for three years, the whole business was very close and the only thing that saved us was the fact we had such small outgoings wages/office wise.
I've no pension as I've never had the spare cash to pay into one. As for hr and stuff like that 😆
What is the pay aa? Is it around 30k? And come on, there's no way you could get a job in the private sector with as much "holiday".
private school teacher.... Directly comparable... Longer holidays, more pay and same pension.
Surely its about getting what you signed up for? You decide on a career in teaching based on the the fact you will get a good pension at the end. Then the goal posts are moved. If you don't agree you are perfectly at liberty to remove your labour like anyone else. As for the person who said why don't they strike during the holidays 🙂 You don't really understand what striking is meant to achieve do you 🙂
Parents only get upset because they treat school like glorified child car.
I would not do it, teaching today is a thankless job as we can see by the posts on here.
Yes you do need to pay people and offer a good package to get the best people in place. As for the "We should not have to pay to get the best" get real !!! Why should someone who has worked hard to get a lot to offer an employer give those skills away for a low wage. If you worked hard to buy an expensive bike, would you give it to me for half price !!!
Teaching is a hard job, its not a job you can do easily and effectively when you get older. So we need to take it on the chin and accept if we want good people teaching our kids we have to pay for it !!!
Or are your kids not worth paying to get the brightest and the best teaching them ?
The average teacher's salary (nationwide) is £ 25,000.00/180 days = £ 138.90 per day/ 30 children = £ 4.62 / 7 1/2 hours = £ 0.61 per hour per student--a very inexpensive babysitter and they even EDUCATE the children! WHAT A DEAL!!!!
I'm not entirely sure I want teachers to be doing it for the money - ie you shouldn't be needing high salaries to attract the best.
Does that apply to doctors too. I'm always amazed that we pay a GP so much and a teacher so little, given the responsibilities assumed for teachers. If teaching attracted the same sort of salary as accountancy, we'd see far more of the top quartile of graduates applying.
School should be made optional. It'd take a generation but people would really learn the value of education and those who teach.
Be careful though the drop out rates for trained teachers in the first five years are shocking.
Yeah, I know someone who used to work in the games industry - their company offered 20 days holiday a year (which you had to take Xmas out if), and during cruch periods there were 50-80 weeks (overtime was unpaid, no time in lieu). The industry is also rather unstable, with studios going pop or making big layoffs rather frequently.
So, for the good of their family, they decided to retrain as a teacher. I think they lasted a year before quitting to go self-employed, as the hours and stress was too much. It wasn't quite the fabulous solution they thought it would be.
I have nothing but respect for good teachers, and quite frankly I think they deserve better - when you hear MPs parroting that they need their £65k salaries and expenses to 'attract the best' (whilst still comfortably being able to run with second jobs), I do wonder why the same argument doesn't apply to teachers, nurses, paramedics, firemen, etc.
School should be made optional.
It already is. There is no requirement to send your child to school, only a requirement to educate them, hence home schooling.
They already are. There is no requirement to sent your child to school, only a requirement to educate them up to a defined standard, hence home schooling.
Actually, there's no requirement to educate them to a standard, just to educate them. 🙂
I'd have thought tomorrow would have been an ideal ad hoc opportunity for a lot of parents to spend an additional day with their children, even though it might use up a days leave.
I don't blame teachers for taking industrial action over pay and conditions, although I don't think either are bad compared to other professions. However, I do then take issue with teachers facilitating punitive action against parents based on 'unauthorised absence'.
If schools really want to avoid disruption caused by parents taking children out of school - it is a bit rich to then to cause similar disruption themselves and not face a financial penalty other than loss of a days wage.
I'm fairly sure that it's the schools management who set and administer the penalties for removing kids, not the teachers.
However, I do then take issue with teachers facilitating punitive action against parents based on 'unauthorised absence'
The teachers don't do this, it's the schools that do it. Incidently what "financial penalty" do parents actually receive for unauthorised absences?
gonefishin - Member
The teachers don't do this, it's the schools that do it. Incidently what "financial penalty" do parents actually receive for unauthorised absences?
Penalty information [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/parents/school_attendance/ ]here[/url].
A head teacher is responsible for the actions taken by the school. As the job title suggests - she/he is a teacher...
I didn't ask what can be done I asked what was actually done. It doesn't matter who is responsible (incidently there are plenty of others mentioned in your link that aren't teachers) it is still "the school" and the educational authorities that actually implement it. Plus given the potential holiday savings I'd have thought that a fine of £100 would still make it financially worthwihile to take your kids out of school.
A head teacher is responsible for the actions taken by the school. As the job title suggests - she/he is a teacher...
I think that's splitting hairs. You could equally argue that you could hold the head teacher responsible for their subordinates striking....
£60 enforced fine for an unautharised at ours, only changed this year (althought the rule has existed for some time). Its a fair rule as far as i'm concerned, some parents properly take the mick ( two weeks off for a trip to Disney!!). Ours isnt on strike as far as im aware but this may be a timing thing. I have to say I know a fair few teachers and am very good friends with a deputy head and they dont share some of the views expressed on here. They may be exceptional and i suppose it depends on the school but they dont allow themselves to be stressed and generally enjoy the work (just the parents who are a PITA 😉 )
Does that apply to doctors too. I'm always amazed that we pay a GP so much and a teacher so little, given the responsibilities assumed for teachers. If teaching attracted the same sort of salary as accountancy, we'd see far more of the top quartile of graduates applying.
I'll happily join you in your argument that GPs are overpaid 😉
My point which seems to have been missed is that teaching should be a vocation rather than just another job - surely the best teachers see it that way. I'm less than convinced that attracting people who might otherwise go into accountancy because they want lots of money would improve the standard of teaching.
Not a job I would want to do and good luck to anyone prepared to stand up for their terms and conditions.
Amazed how so many people are vindictive because somebody is getting something they are not like a final salary pension.
We should all strive for a better deal rather than sink to the lowest common denominator
My point which seems to have been missed is that teaching should be a vocation rather than just another job - surely the best teachers see it that way.
What sort of messed up logic is that? It doesn't matter what anyones motivations for going into teaching are (vocational/holidays/money) it matters whether or not they do a good job. If you pay a competative salary then you would undoubtedly attract more people into the profession. Afterall no-one is going to say "sorry I got into this as a vocation so I'm going to leave because you are going to pay me more"
Mine is off.
Whats not to like about having a bit more time with her for riding bikes in park, going for a walk ?
Amazed how so many people are vindictive because somebody is getting something they are not like a final salary pension.We should all strive for a better deal rather than sink to the lowest common denominator
Exactly. +1
We are such a bankrupt country that we were ready to find the money to launch a shed load of cruise missiles at Syria at £100k a throw before someone saw sense.
My point which seems to have been missed is that teaching should be a vocation rather than just another job - surely the best teachers see it that way. I'm less than convinced that attracting people who might otherwise go into accountancy because they want lots of money would improve the standard of teaching.
Part of what teachers are striking against is the introduction of performance related pay because the evidence shows that teachers are not motivated by money.
What we [i]are[/i] motivated by is doing a good job and getting the best results for our students. I'm not convinced that I'll be able to do a good job at the age of 67, which is why I'll be striking on 17th October as a way of protesting changes to the pay and conditions which I signed up to 14 years ago when I first started teaching.
I don't particularly mind that I'm paid considerably less than most of my university peers. I don't even mind that my friend who drives the little local train to the seaside is paid slightly more than me. I am concerned that my class sizes are getting bigger, my salary is frozen, that Ofsted* can come in at any time and deem my teaching to be unsatisfactory, that we're getting less cash per student than previously, that we're not replacing support staff that leave meaning increased work load for those left, or the constant meddling from central government.
That's why I'll be striking on October 17th.
*or whichever private company gets the contract to inspect us. It could be Serco or perhaps a company who also own a chain of academies. Who knows?
You appear to have just agreed with me, miketually. For those like gonefishin who still don't appear to have actually comprehended what I wrote (I do hope he's not an English teacher 😉 ) I'm not in any way having a go at teachers or suggesting that the current changes are right - I do agree that they work pretty hard for their money and don't begrudge their current holidays or pension at all. I do reckon that it's unlikely the quality of the profession would improve a huge amount if salaries were doubled though - the majority of those who want to teach and would make good teachers aren't that motivated by money (but understand how their motivation is affected by all the other changes being imposed).
Or in case you need it spelling out in smaller words, I support the strike action.
No I'm not an english teacher; I'm not a teacher at all. I just can't get my head around the logic that says that paying more won't get you better candidates. A persons motivation for doing a job is irrelvant if they are good at it.
Or in case you need it spelling out in smaller words, I support the strike action.
That was far from clear from your initial post.
I didn't ask what can be done I asked what was actually done. It doesn't matter who is responsible (incidently there are plenty of others mentioned in your link that aren't teachers) it is still "the school" and the educational authorities that actually implement it. Plus given the potential holiday savings I'd have thought that a fine of £100 would still make it financially worthwihile to take your kids out of school.
Yes... Obviously teachers play no part in this...
