And yet a few years ago when the labour party were offering standard northern european social democratic policies almost everyone on here was ranting and raving about communists, sixth formers, trots, the 1970s and Derek Hatton.
Its what happens when you choose the wrong leader.
I tend to see left and right as relative terms, a lot of it comes down to where you define the centre to be. Describing Labour as centre-right and the Tories as right wing sounds odd as that would suggest there's very few people in parliament who are left of centre. It suggests that the scale is miscalibrated. While it is probably accurate to say that the centre ground of UK politics has moved rightwards over my lifetime, it seems of less value to state that most of the UK's political parties are right wing without being clear about what that frame of reference is.
TJ's comment a few posts back usefully implied that he was assessing the UK's political landscape as to the right of the overall European political landscape. That's a better way of putting it than just saying that both Labour and the Tories are right wing, IMO - though potentially if you included other countries into the comparison (e.g. the US) then we'd maybe start seeming left wing again.
Alternatively at least one poster occasionally implies that their definition of being right wing involves an acceptance of the neoliberal system. Again this usefully sets out what their uses of left and right are relative to. It is however less useful to those who aren't on here too much or who don't have good memories for this sort of thing when left and right are being slung around without that vital bit of context.
It is perhaps no surprise that many people will set their sense of left and right based on what the Conservatives and Labour are currently proposing, as one is traditionally seen as the main right wing party and the other is seen as the main left wing party. So for them the centre ground is always somewhere between them, it just moves as the parties move their policies.
I can see why people would prefer to sum up a set of political beliefs by just saying "soft left", "hard right" or whatever, rather than spelling them out explicitly each time, but it becomes much less useful when nobody appears to remotely agree on what each of these terms means.
And more directly relevant to this thread:
Truss may no longer be as popular with the party membership as she once was.
I suggest you go to the POLITICAL COMPASS website and have a read and take the test. It will give you an idea of where you sit, and where the main political parties sit, on the 4 axis graph.
Claiming that Labour are left wing and the centre ground is somewhere in between them and the Tories is far from accurate.
Zahawi needs to up his game in message control from his own company. Should have asked for first and second choices because it's the sums of those bars redistributed that matters. Results soon. I can't imagine Braverman will go through.
braverman and, possibly, hunt to get knocked out; zahawi to get enough votes to progress - but only just.
The others will live to fight on tomorrow.
I'm not nostradamus.
Its what happens when you choose the wrong leader.
They wouldn't have been offering those policies with a different leader. What is that you want? A nice inoffensive photogenic leader, or the scandinavian/german social democratic policies? It would be nice to have both, but the labour party has proven time and again that these two things are mutually exclusive.
Truss may no longer be as popular with the party membership as she once was.
I reckon Tory right-wingers are now spoilt for choice. Before the leadership election kicked off her name was one of very few being touted, now it's a crowded field.
She's still in with a chance imo depending on who drops out and where their votes go. Truss and Sunak might enjoy the same level of support among Conservative Party members but it will be Tory MPs who decide which two will be left for the membership to choose.
I suggest you go to the POLITICAL COMPASS website and have a read and take the test.
Just did it and couldn't help thinking the questions were joke questions as how could anyone answer in the opposite way I did. Not surprising I suppose as a bottom left corner person.
but it becomes much less useful when nobody appears to remotely agree on what each of these terms means.
Or voters who are nominally left or right, nevertheless support policies that are opposed to their chosen ideology
There's quite a bit of overlap in support for the "other side's" ideologies
Zahawi and Hunt gone then...
And Braverman barely made the 30 vote requirement.
And more directly relevant to this thread:
It's a bit scary seeing Kemi Badenoch in 2nd place there!
I assume that any of the candidates can drop out at any time? I wondered if the bottom three might take this vote as a bit of a pointer and withdraw (probably backing one of the remaining candidates). It would save them a bit of embarassment and might play well as regards seeking a cabinet role under the eventual winner.
wow Zahawi getting a punneling from his colleagues there
And apparently he'd been working on his leadership campaign with one of Lynton Crosby's team for a while!
Badendoch is not that surprising - her full on culture war stance appeals to the ERG etc
assume that any of the candidates can drop out at any time?
Notable that bottom two haven't as yet released statements, so your probs right..
What's this business about hiding unisex toilets? And penis jokes? What a party...
[ listening to Radio4 PM ]
If she makes it to the final two, I can't see past Mordaunt now. Will be a case of the party faithful not picking the MP's choice. But them's the rules. Rishi is damaged good to the members - forget tax (apart from his wife), he stabbed Boris and they won't forget.
Not convinced sunak will pick up many more votes in second or subsequent rounds.
Nominative determinism is a powerful force, at least in the Tory party. I suspect Mordaunt will be a terrible choice for this reason alone.
Having said that, all the others are terrible as well.
he stabbed Boris and they won’t forget.
The Tory party membership seem to be preferring the candidates who had no association with Boris at all. I think they disliked him as much as the rest of us
my £5 on lair Mordant looking safe now
Rishi reminds me of Blair, a bit creepy and sinister.
PM4PM!
to parapharase Coldplay...." a sewer full of shytes"
I would expect any of those that called for Johnson to go won't get support from the gammon & blue rinse brigade.
I like it that Hunt secured at least 3 less votes than were needed to get on the ballot!
I think they disliked him as much as the rest of us
Apparently Johnson has been the least popular member of the cabinet among Conservative Party members for the last 2 months. A clear majority of Tory members wanted him to resign before he did.
There is no reason why a tax and spend leader should be popular among Tory Party members, which presumably is why all the current leadership candidates are attempting to outdo each other over tax cuts.
I doubt that Johnson's integrity was an issue among Tory members, but being seen as an election liability would certainly have been an issue.
All of the above would undoubtedly have played a part, but I think the reason so many people (including his own MPs and party members) have turned on Boris is that no-one likes the feeling that they are considered stupid enough to be taken for a ride.
Can you imagine it- him opening no10 on his last day & copying Johhny Rotten's closing words at the Sex Pistols last gig!
What were they?
Ever get the feeling you've been had?
Haha!
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
Looking at these, It feels like the UK still has a long way left to fall.
So nice to see that the rich privileged fool is on the way out and out in front in the race to replace him is….wait a minute…!
Ahh but you know the drill, that’s your fault if your poor and you should just ‘apply’ yourself and get a better job 🙂
But ahem not that job.
They have no idea what life is like for a lot of people (upbringing, schooling, genetic disadvantage, bad luck etc,.) but what is worse is the they simply don't give a shit.
Bad enough in itself, worse when a high number of people are clearly similar and vote for them.
Tory's be Toryin'
Instagram Liz is up next with the big launch today, ready to deploy her legendary skills as an orator to inspire a nation with her 'vision'.
Should be entertaining. I expect she'll arrive on a tank because at the moment it looks like she's being thoroughly out-Maggied by Penny Mordaunt
Instagram Liz
Apart from the Instagram bit, it's like being back in 1977 🙁 "level up in a Conservative way"
Can I just say...September the bloody 5th!!!
I don't think I can really take a whole summer of Tory psychodrama
They have no idea what life is like for a lot of people (upbringing, schooling, genetic disadvantage, bad luck etc,.) but what is worse is the they simply don’t give a shit.
And those of them that do understand, have no intention of ever either been one of those people or going back to when they were. They've seen with the Covid PPE 'scandal' that they can get away lining theirs & others pockets without censure, and boy will they continue - and the selfish fools will carry on voting for them.
They have no idea what life is like for a lot of people (upbringing, schooling, genetic disadvantage, bad luck etc,.)
What I find incomprehensible is that millions of people who do have that kind of difficult life vote for the party that's set up to prolong the advantage of the rich.
and boy will they continue
Sad to say it, but whichever ghoul takes over from the fly-tipped sofa will have absorbed all the lessons he taught them. So expect the assault on democracy to continue unabated, for any oversight or restraint on the executive to be hurled out of the window and the march toward being an elective dictatorship to keep on progressing at pace. I expect boundary changes will be priority number one.
Whats terrifying is that it appears that's what a lot of people are happy to vote for. They actively want this because ... erm.... Fornirs and the liberal elite?
They actively want this because … erm…. Fornirs and the liberal elite?
Well half of the remaining 6 leadership candidates, including the favourite, were born to foreign parents, and as if to emphasise that fact all 3 have brown skin. So things could get interesting.
With regards to the explanations given for people not voting Labour I mean.