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There’s a lot of people smugly posting all sorts of reasons that he shouldn’t have bought the car in the first place whilst completely ignoring why he he bought the car in the first place…
Because he was a brand snob who didn't want the Kia which was the alternative?
Who ended up with a banjoed car. Ergo it was worth countering car salesmams dick move with my own. 40k miles and going strong with only servicing , brake pads and tires. Better than the others I drove that day that were in need of tlc only evident from a drive.
So actually the company with that "policy" were the only one with cars which were in good condition? I'd say for a credible business to adopt it as a "policy" shows a level of confidence in their stock - anyone doing it, must have a mechanism for "undoing" any sales which go wrong, but are inevitably going to be a PITA so you must assume its infrequent for people to come back (and I'd also suggest that when they do come back (at least quickly) that the default position is probably refund quickly and sell it again) which is why the taking it to other places for opinions is wasting everyone's time:
Presumably some of you think it’s clunking and grinding its way along the road. Obviously it’s not, or it’d have gone straight back. Bear in mind the first indie test drove it and thought it was ok. So the dealer will clearly think it’s ok too. That’s why I need more evidence.
I think your first step should still have been to take it back to them - if not satisfied with their response THEN you could go for independent assessments. If they simply said, "here, have your money back" or "here have 95% of your money back" would you be happy?
So actually the company with that “policy” were the only one with cars which were in good condition? I’d say for a credible business to adopt it as a “policy” shows a level of confidence in their stock
thats being somewhat economical with the facts.
Id put it down to blind luck that the vehicle got to their forecourt fault free going by their trustpilot reviews.
Because he was a brand snob who didn’t want the Kia which was the alternative?
Not unreasonable to expect a Merc to be a more pleasant driving experience than a Kia, is it? I wanted an estate, rather than an SUV after all.
Re the fault, I stil can't prove it's actually faulty rather than just old, part worn or it just needs a reset.
If they simply said, “here, have your money back” or “here have 95% of your money back” would you be happy?
Yes, with 100% anyway, but that seemed so unlikely as to not be worth the stress.of trying it, without solid evidence.
This thread makes me glad I stopped buying secondhand cars. With the amount of PCP deals around it seems generally bonkers to buy anything over £15k secondhand when you can buy new and pay one low low low monthly fee.
The difference being that you don't have to spend your life worrying about someone smacking a door in a supermarket car park or catching an allow on a kerb etc. We spent just over £15k on a car just under 14 years ago - paid for it in full in four years and have had a further 10 years of just regular maintenance costs (and I couldn't give a shiny shit if someone decided to run a key down the side) – people make different decisions on what works for them.
Re the fault, I stil can’t prove it’s actually faulty rather than just old, part worn or it just needs a reset
You don't need to. Take it back, say words to the effect of "the gears don't work properly" and step back. That's it.
You'll get issues with all second hand cars. That's the choice you make.
My current car cost me 3k last Dec and I've spent a grand on it so far (some necessary, some just for my own peace of mind). Every second hand car I've had you always spend the first few months ironing out niggles.
I'd be searching out a good Merc independent even if it meant a trip to get to them. Join Facebook groups and the like and watch which names keep being recommended. A car dealership won't know the foggiest about gearboxes. For most their technical knowledge extends to switching the vacuum cleaner on to hoover the car out! 🙂
Take it back, say words to the effect of “the gears don’t work properly”
Me: "The gears don't work properly"
Them: "Yes they do, look - 1st, 2nd, 3rd"
Me: "No, they don't, look it's jerky"
Them: "Seems fine to us"
...
Honestly I don't know what car dealers are like by you but there's no way on earth these people will roll back on a sale on those grounds.
I’d be searching out a good Merc independent even if it meant a trip to get to them.
That's what I've done.
Me: “The gears don’t work properly”
Them: “Yes they do, look – 1st, 2nd, 3rd”
Me: “No, they don’t, look it’s jerky”
Them: “Seems fine to us”
That's when you go & get a second opinion. They've had a chance to sort out, declined so you can start a dispute.
Now it's
Me: “The gears don’t work properly”
Them: “Yes they do, look – 1st, 2nd, 3rd”
Me: “No, I've taken it to 2 experts and they said they're iffy”
Them: “Maybe they buggered it up. you should have come to us & we'd sort you out as part of the lovely customer service we provide. Perhaps you need to chase them to see what they did to it”
Honestly I don’t know what car dealers are like by you but there’s no way on earth these people will roll back on a sale on those grounds.
They're just unit-shifters - buy at auction, give it a quick valet and sell on.
New/nearly new with manufacturers warranty is the only way to be sure.
Tbf I don't think molegrips has done this terribly wrong.
Only point I may have made is a quick call when I was on holiday and say it's a touch clunky, I've asked a local firm to flash the box and I'll keep you posted.
Hes right in the fact with a fault like that the dealers not going to roll over and take it back.
@molgrips any dealers near you got another merc same as you for sale.... go n waste salesmans time n test drive it...?
Oh and you used that W word again
Stop it.
any dealers near you got another merc same as you for sale…. go n waste salesmans time n test drive it…?
Good idea, I didn't think of that - bit late now though. But the idea of going to the specialist is that they should know if it's right or not.
Did another test drive this afternoon. When getting close to the red line in lower gears the change is totally slurred, and when accelerating moderately at lower revs it's jerky.
If you test drive it on the motorway it feels fine because you're in higher gears and you cannot realistically red line it. I ought to rig up a chest cam or something and video it.
Gripping thread, this.
Not quite as dramatic as that poor soul who bought a dodgy Defender but I can't wait to read how it goes with the dealer, in the next instalment
When getting close to the red line in lower gears the change is totally slurred, and when accelerating moderately at lower revs it’s jerky.
isn't this just the sign of clutches doing their jobs? if you apply a certain amount of clutch pressure against with lots of power running through the transmission it'll take some time to get the revs down, on the other hand if you apply the same amount of pressure with very little power running through the transmission it'll change the revs immediately. It might be a sign the clutches are worn or wet (if they're meant to be dry, depends on the dct setup) - but it might also be a sign everything is fine - without driving another I think it'd be hard to tell.
Definitely tell the dealer you’ve been redlining it
Am I not supposed to redline a car?
This thread needs more glupton and surf-matt
Not quite as dramatic as that poor soul who bought a dodgy Defender
Oh I remember that...what happened? Did he get his money back?
I think everyone is being a bit harsh here, but it's mainly impatience, everything seems strangely drawn out, for example if this was me, first sign of something not right, nip into a local garage and say 'just bought this car, can you drive it round the block and tell me what you think?'..I might not tell them just to make it more interesting...they might get out and say 'no way mate, there is nowhere to put sunglasses', then you are a bit more informed, if they say the gearbox is stuffed go back, this I would have done immediately after the holiday.
The other thing that seems to bug only me is this...
Me: “The gears don’t work properly”
Them: ...Stop there, you don't know what they will say, they fix cars every day, it's normal, unless you bought it from a dodgy back street place they are in business to do these sort of things, if they palmed everyone off that brought a car back they wouldn't be around long.
In short, I think you make things more complicated than they need to be, think about it too much, get anxious, and build scenarios in your head(as above) my advice is keep it simple, phone them and say you have concerns about the gearbox...then don't speak, don't tell them you have had independents look at it, but tell them you are thinking of, and don't speak, tell them you can't leave the car because you need it for work, can they give you a courtesy car? you are now costing them time and money, they need to satisfy you to get rid, thank them profusely and tell them how impressed you are with their service, and that you hope the fault doesn't reoccur, you love the car and it would be a real shame to have to return it.
And just to make you feel better I bought a second hand car last year, It's great but a wheel bearing went, put it into a local garage garage to save a few quid and due to covid the part was hard to find, the main dealer that I didn't go to to save money had the only one, and it cost way over the odds, I ended up paying £400 to get a wheel bearing fitted, then...saw the date on the bill..I had a couple of weeks warranty still running which covers wheel bearings...with the main dealer that supplied the part, too busy working to stop and think about the obvious, happens.
Maybe the errant sunglasses holder fell into the gearbox?
they might get out and say ‘no way mate, there is nowhere to put sunglasses’, then you are a bit more informed, if they say the gearbox is stuffed go back, this I would have done immediately after the holiday.
I literally did exactly that. They said it was ok, I don't believe them.
There's nothing obviously wrong with it, but it's exactly like a cheap crappy American auto, and it's exactly not what I think a Merc should be like, especially when the transmission has been praised by reviewers and other people.
have you changed the oil and filters yet?
There’s nothing obviously wrong with it, but it’s exactly like a cheap crappy American auto
wait, does your Mercedes shooting brake look like this?
😉
Am I not supposed to redline a car?
If you were talking about a Golf GTi, then abso-bloody-lately. Bounce it off the Rev limiter.
In the case of a German pensioners caravan-towing land-yacht, with an automatic gearbox, it does beg the question; what would be the point?
But yes, when you make your claim for Marvin the paranoid Mercedes in the dealership, definitely mention all the redlining 😂
In the case of a German pensioners caravan-towing land-yacht with an automatic gearbox it does beg the question; what would be the point?
It's a CLS with lowered suspension and 19 rims it's not a pensioner's cruiser.
Vroom vroom
*swoons*
😂
You can that the changes are slow - but what you can't see is that it backs off whilst it's shifting, so the power delivery is not smooth. It also looks like it's bouncing a bit in what I think is 2nd.
I tried to record the G forces with a phone app but it looks like the phone mount was wobbling all over the place so it didn't record properly.
I'm struggling to see what's wrong. Maybe its slightly lazy compared to my BMW/ZF auto but I'd expect that of a Merc - based on no expertise just an assumption of Merc as a cruiser vs BM as "sports".
based on no expertise just an assumption of Merc as a cruiser vs BM as “sports”.
So you think that a fifty grand Merc should shift like a twenty grand bog standard American car? No, and if that were the case reviewers would have panned it instead of saying 'the transmission is brilliant'.
Tried this? At the end of the vid he says he does it because the because gets sluggish...
Same here:
This vid at about 1:28 - same transmission as I hvae
This vid at about 1:28 – same transmission as I hvae
Yeah but maybe his is or has recently been "re learned"?
I dunno.
There's a well known reset procedure, but it's not clear exactly what that does, there's a lot of bad information out there. However there's also a few different sets of instructions, I might try it again with some variations.
Also, seems I'm not the only one with shifting problems with this thing. By the sound of it it's the 'learning' software that's rubbish. It could be that me driving it normally then booting it during test drives might be confusing it.
My colleague had a 2007 CLS (350CGI) and another had a 2011 C class and having been a passenger in both I'd say both were pretty quick and smooth through the gears certainly on a par with the DSG Passat I had. I'd guess those boxes pre date molgrips car but my impression was that while Mercs are softer in the bends than the equivalent BMW their transmissions are not built to be deliberately sluggish in a straight line.
This car is fantastic in corners. In fact it gets much better the faster you drive it, in a straight line but especially in corners. Mercedes may be known for making comfy cruisers but this isn't one of them. Shame, cos that's what I was kind of expecting.
Can you not just tailor your routes to drive it only on roads with lots of corners?
Have you not thought of moving to Scotland? We’re just back from there today and it’s corners galore. Your car would love it up there. And quite frankly given how nasty you’ve been to it, I think you owe it that.
please be nicer in this thread.
I would test drive the same model tbh.
I can drive an auto in 3 different ways n get 3 different shifts.
I've proffered my minuscule experience forward.
Lots off people with bugger all trade or general experience are throwing their hat in.
1 is it worse than another
2 is it wear
3 is it poor driving technique
4 is it worth making yourself ill
Aye you can say what you like about Scots but we know how to make a windy road.
molgrips what do you see wrong in the vid clip you posted?
And is this your normal driving? 4k revs? does it change gear differently at lower revs?
molgrips what do you see wrong in the vid clip you posted?
Well the shift is too slow. But as I said, it pauses acceleration whilst doing that long slow change. You can't see it of course but it means the thing feels lethargic and generally rubbish. Which is annoying.
Watching it again you can actually see the needle leap and sort of pause just after I floor it. Which is a bit odd.
if they say the gearbox is stuffed go back, this I would have done immediately after the holiday.
I literally did exactly that. They said it was ok, I don’t believe them.
Was it just me that missed the bit where molgrips said he has already been back to the dealer seeking a remedy?
because not long ago... (bold added):
Yes, with 100% anyway, but that seemed so unlikely as to not be worth the stress.of trying it, without solid evidence.
I don't think you necessary "deserve" 100% refund. But if you could have hired a car for 3 weeks that was suitable for towing your caravan and taking your family on holiday for £500 I'm sure it would have been a serious consideration. Certainly in your shoes I'd be happy with that and let them sell it again so someone with a lighter right foot who doesn't notice the shitty shifting. I presume you've fixed the subframe on the old car meantime?
molgrips
Well the shift is too slow. But as I said, it pauses acceleration whilst doing that long slow change. You can’t see it of course but it means the thing feels lethargic and generally rubbish. Which is annoying.
Watching it again you can actually see the needle leap and sort of pause just after I floor it. Which is a bit odd.
Not seeing it in that clip, you did 0-60 in about 6 seconds, with your foot down it is changing at high revs, would be interesting to compare a more relaxed 0-60, don't hear anything juddering or vibrating that would indicate a clutch problem, or even mechanical gearbox problem, just needs reset for performance I'd say.
I have only driven one Mercedes estate, older model but it was pretty much the same, lots of noise and not a lot for it, especially pulling a trailer.
Internet says Service intervals on Mercedes Auto gearbox is every 36-40k miles. That seems a low mileage to me so unless it’s in the service history that it’s been done that would be my first port of call. How old is the gearbox fluid and how many miles has it done?
You can that the changes are slow – but what you can’t see is that it backs off whilst it’s shifting, so the power delivery is not smooth. It also looks like it’s bouncing a bit in what I think is 2nd.
That looks pretty normal to me (as someone who's driven a car with an automatic gearbox for close to ten years). You pulled out relatively gently >> gearbox shifts straight into 2nd >> torque convertor locks up >> you boot it >> car thinks "WTF, I've just let the turbo go off boost and now I have to unlock the torque convertor and change gears and everything" >> shifts normally.
You can't compare it to the videos above where the driver is shifting manually in a different gearbox mode. If you're used to driving a DSG automatic then these are completely different (and if you're comparing the rev counters be aware that the ECU fakes the snap gear change 'cos it looks good). Cold engine also drives differently to warm engine (even on a "warm" day you need to allow a few minutes for the oil to come up to temp).
It might be worth changing the gearbox oil but until you've driven an identical car under identical conditions you'll be fighting a losing battle, I think.
Ok so it's not a good video but I didn't fan ynsifti g through 15 mins of footage. However it's not smooth or responsive, you can feel most shifts, often quite badly.
I've driven a lot of autos as well, just never a Mercedes, and this feels like a cheap rubbish one which doesn't seem right.
However the internet seems split 50/50 with people hating this transmission and people loving it.
because not long ago…
I didn't demand a refund, I informed them of the faults and they offered a remedy.
until you’ve driven an identical car under identical conditions you’ll be fighting a losing battle, I think.
Or.. I get the opinion of someone who has.. which is what I'm doing now.
You can’t compare it to the videos above where the driver is shifting manually in a different gearbox mode.
Obviously I've tried every mode, under every condition, in every combination I can, I'm not so dense that I don't know about different modes...