[Closed] SO 8 hours forum was down ?

The fallout of this government and the Met Police resignation is clearly far and wide...

Probably turned it off to save bandwidth costs

Maybe just maybe the tech guys have been working on it all night (*), and when Mark finally gets wafted into the office in his chauffeur driven limo, and of course ater his first artisan coffee of the day, I expect there will be some update as to what happened. But in the grand scheme of things, with tanks ready to roll over Ukraine, an inept government clinging on to power in any way they can and a pandemic that's still causing daily impact on many lives, a mainly UK based forum being offline in the middle of the night isn't really that big a deal... is it?

* (Or maybe someone came in and turned it off and on again, and we're back)

The downtime was due to upgrading of the software stack yesterday and in which it caused a fatal error to occur while all us devs were asleep at midnight. This was quickly fixed and the site is now back up and running. We expect similar issues may appear over the coming days but we cannot know or expect what they will be before they happen. We will keep a close eye on the site and resolve the issues as quickly as we can and avoid downtime of the site to an absolute minimum.

Sorry for any inconvenience and we hope you forgive these outages. Back to your usual shenanigans

I guess tech tried to view on an iPhone?

The downtime was due to upgrading of the software stack yesterday and in which it caused a fatal error to occur while all us devs were asleep at midnight. This was quickly fixed and the site is now back up and running. We expect similar issues may appear over the coming days but we cannot know or expect what they will be before they happen. We will keep a close eye on the site and resolve the issues as quickly as we can and avoid downtime of the site to an absolute minimum.

Sorry for any inconvenience and we hope you forgive these outages. Back to your usual shenanigans

No worries... thanks for the info.

Still busted.
When logged in topics seem to show all posts.
When not logged in topics show none or one post.
E.g. This topic only shows 1 post when not logged in.
Also when not logged in the timestamp of the single/last post seems wrong.

This is only site I vist that regularly falls over itself regularly. How so? An answer would be appreciated and how you're going to resolve it.

FFS stop moaning.

APF

Outage - Outrage

made me think

FFS stop moaning.

What bit is moaning ? I asked why it was down ? Is that a lot to ask ? We pay for the place so surely we should get informed when service is down as to why ? That's not moaning.

Aliens

It's the link between the Bahamas and Engerland. They make out they slum it from a scabby office in Todmorden, but we really know they're driving round in Maserati's enjoying the Caribbean sun! 🙂

BTW - if I open this thread in Safari and not logged in I only see the OP's post and no replies.

Russian Cyberbot Aliens

@bruneep We are essentially a small dev team that is working on a framework where we have outgrown its capabilities. We use WordPress to which the level and size of this forum has outgrown the design capabilities of this software. What we do on a daily basis is work with the framework and customize it in ways it was never intended to used due to the vast scale of this forum. We do our very best to keep it running as best as we can.

Also, sometimes we need to crack a few eggs to make an omelette. We have to break a few things to make things better. We currently have a list of issues to fix so long that it will take us about 3 years to sort. We are working through these issues as quickly as we can but we have to prioritise issues over other ones. Some of these are things that go on behind the scenes that you will not see. But at the end of the day will make the site more reliable.

The tech departments plan for this year is site performance (mainly speed) and added level of interactivity for the forum. Should there be anything that involves you as the users, we will let you know. Otherwise, we will keep working on the site as usual.

FFS stop moaning.

Absolutely this.

Must have missed the outage as I was outage on my bike.

I also pay and understand shit happens, and there are other websites available to visit.

I quite like it, i squeeze all my work into the down times thus freeing up much dossing time when its working.

bruneep
Full Member
This is only site I vist that regularly falls over itself regularly. How so? An answer would be appreciated and how you’re going to resolve it.

Wow, maybe take a step back for a bit to realign your chakras or something.

What we do on a daily basis is work with the framework and customize it in ways it was never intended to used due to the vast scale of this forum. We do our very best to keep it running as best as we can.

Is it not time to think about changing that ? Instead of firefighting, move to another platform that allows for the scale/content required ?

Sure i understand that's a lot easier said than done, but it sounds like you're only digging a deeper hole that's harder to get out of .... the site and database, userbase and content grows daily, so the issues you have today are only going to grow bigger day by day ?

As someone who works in tech support, you have my sympathy. Even with lots of planning and testing, things can go wrong sometimes.

BUT I thought at least half STW worked in IT?!? You'd think they would go easy on you.

Also, wow it's still running on WP!

You’d think they would go easy on you.

I don't think asking "what happened" is particularly harsh is it ?

But what about those folks who seem unable to do anything without posting about it?
How are they supposed to cope?
😉

Dont we pay for a magazine? The forum/website is a side enterprise.

Distributed cryptocurrency mining.....

Is there a compensation hot line I can call? What about counseling? Also my employer is getting suspicious as I've actually done some work on a Friday morning, what are you going to do about it?

Dont we pay for a magazine? The forum/website is a side enterprise

I guess that's down to personal interpretation. I don't read the magazine, but i do use the forum. Does that mean i pay for the magazine i don't read and the forum is free, or that i pay for the forum and he magazine doesn't exist to me...
That's like saying if i get a happy meal, the toy is free.... it's not, it's packaged into the happy meal. The forum is part of what we pay for, if the forum disappeared, my sub would be cancelled the day after.... If the magazine went belly up, i'd still pay for the forum.

Ohhhh, there's a burger menu on the forum main page now. When did that happen?!?

I noticed it yesterday

What bit is moaning ?

Well...

But nothing to the paying userbase as to what and why ?

Comms really ought to be better guys.

...sounds a bit moaney.

Genuine question. If the platform is not fit for purpose, why not migrate to one that is?  Instead of customising, firefighting, bodging and applying sticking plasters all the time? I can see how incredibly frustrating it must be to work with what you've got, but why do you (and we) have to tolerate a systems that in your own words we've outgrown?

Dont we pay for a magazine? The forum/website is a side enterprise.

The shitness of this place is part of the charm isn’t it? Like old-school Dr Who.

Back to your usual shenanigans

10/10 for the use of the word shenanigans Tom! I hope the day goes smoothly for you all.

All I know is that the site was down when I was chilling before going to bed and still down when I woke up! Was slightly worried the place had been hacked again or even gone bust.

Happy to see it up and running again.

Edit: very unfortunate spelling error leading to autocorrect choosing a totally inappropriate word that I didn't sit before posting!

can the mag be accessed electronically while the forum is down?

Fair point on that one.

But there is a strange sense of entitlement from users of the forum who suggest that they should be entitled to know everything that is going on. When Virgin Media goes down or whatever broadband user you use do you demand to know why from the CEO?

I just feel that because they are a smaller business and engage with their customers to a certain extent they get a lot of personal flack.

I just assumed power cut 🤷‍♂️😄

do you demand to know why from the CEO?

Demand ? That's a heck of a leap... it's a discussion forum, i asked a question on the forum...

We use WordPress to which the level and size of this forum has outgrown the design capabilities of this software.

I'm going to be 'that guy' - but hasn't this been the line for donkeys years now.

Demand ? That’s a heck of a leap… it’s a discussion forum, i asked a question on the forum…

I didnt say you personally - I said users of the forum

I must have been in bed.

I just assumed ghosts

I hope you're standing behind that guarantee Drac 😂

We use WordPress to which the level and size of this forum has outgrown the design capabilities of this software

Oh, you now really have my sympathy.  It's great for some things but once you are outside of that area it fast becomes a real nightmare 🙁

Ohhhh, there’s a burger menu on the forum main page now

Now I'm hungry.  They had better be artisan and not so large you can't actually eat them without 'deconstructing' them (I hate myself for even saying that)

crikey the big (s)hitters and the stwexpertsin****geverything must have been bored witless. 😂🤣😁

Genuine question. If the platform is not fit for purpose, why not migrate to one that is? Instead of customising, firefighting, bodging and applying sticking plasters all the time? I can see how incredibly frustrating it must be to work with what you’ve got, but why do you (and we) have to tolerate a systems that in your own words we’ve outgrown?

It is a very good question. I myself have pondered about this and looked into alternatives. The short answer is if we were to go down this route, it would take at minimum 18 months to write a new site that would have about 60% the functionality it does now. Would you be happy with a site that did less than it did now?

Please bear in mind we are 3 developers, some of which do not work a 5 days a week, and we try to give you the best experience we can while also providing solutions needed to the business of singletrack and editorial.

If we were to go down the route of a custom solution and move away from WordPress, we wouldn't work on the current version so it would most certainly seem like all progress and development on the site has stopped. We also have invested a lot into the WordPress ecosystem so there would be a lot of work to migrate to something other that could provide the same level of functionality, features and solutions required.

But don't get me wrong, I am still toying with this idea and if something suitable comes up, I will most certainly look into it.

Would you be happy with a site that did less than it did now?

If it had a like button, avatars, sigs and ability to block seeing the trolls, absolutely...
👍

It is a very good question. I myself have pondered about this and looked into alternatives. The short answer is if we were to go down this route, it would take at minimum 18 months to write a new site that would have about 60% the functionality it does now. Would you be happy with a site that did less than it did now?

Please bear in mind we are 3 developers, some of which do not work a 5 days a week, and we try to give you the best experience we can while also providing solutions needed to the business of singletrack and editorial.

If we were to go down the route of a custom solution and move away from WordPress, we wouldn’t work on the current version so it would most certainly seem like all progress and development on the site has stopped. We also have invested a lot into the WordPress ecosystem so there would be a lot of work to migrate to something other that could provide the same level of functionality, features and solutions required.

But don’t get me wrong, I am still toying with this idea and if something suitable comes up, I will most certainly look into it.

Thanks for the reply Tom, appreciated. However, I suppose I was thinking more of migrating to another off the shelf platform which is more capable/better fit than having to design and build one from scratch. There may be all kinds of reasons why this isn't possible and I know little about it so forgive my ignorance if it's a non starter.  It's just that I use quite a few other forums for other interests, some of which are similar in size ( I guess - not sure how many users STW has) and their software seems stable and reliable.  I've been on some of them for over 15 years.

An extra 50p in the meter and its now right as rain

I didn't notice. But now I know, I'm completely outraged. I deserve so much better for just under 2 quid a month.

Burgers!? Where's my burger. I pay for this place I demand a burger. GIVE ME BURGER

I checked at 3am as I had woken after an early night to bed. Site down.
Oh dear so I looked at Pinkbike for 20 minutes for the first time in ages and caught up a bit, but I don't spend ss much time on there's I used to. I think the obsession with DH on my part has gaded, unlike theirs.
Either way I now spend far more time on here than on there...
So glad you're all back.

This is only site I vist that regularly falls over itself regularly. How so? An answer would be appreciated and how you’re going to resolve it.

If anyone hears the phrase "entitled", here's a good example of it.

The "not logged - only showing single post" thing seems fixed! 👍

Do not, under any circumstances, go down a "custom, bespoke application" route. From someone who uses large critical systems in a highly regulated industry. Just don't. Developers leave. That's all.

I'd settle for a like button, but thank you for all you do. And I didn't notice anyway 😀

Migrating to a new platform sounds so 'simple' but in reality it's just a whole new set of major problems half of which you won't discover till its too late.....

major problems half of which you won’t discover till its too late…..

You've only ever been involved in successful migrations haven't you?

Do not, under any circumstances, go down a “custom, bespoke application” route. From someone who uses large critical systems in a highly regulated industry. Just don’t. Developers leave. That’s all.

As someone who's worked with a larger, very well-paid dev team who couldn't deliver a ****ing pizza - I agree with this for slightly different reasons.

I quite like it, i squeeze all my work into the down times thus freeing up much dossing time when its working.

Yep. Got much more work done today. I vote for one day a week of broken forum.

Yep. Got much more work done today. I vote for one day a week of broken forum.

Every week ? seems excessive .... can't you work Saturdays instead when i'm out riding ?

This is only site I vist that regularly falls over itself regularly. How so? An answer would be appreciated and how you’re going to resolve it.

You don't by any chance work in our Marketing team do you, and want it for next week?

STW Towers can I have my £0.02 of subscription owed paid in ADA please, for the flagrant breach in uninterrupted forum browsing that occurred while I was asleep last night hoping to learn about the latest enduro-sled?

(I can show working if required).

Yours, Outraged of nowheres-ville.

We migrated to a new system for one part of our company structure. Was horrendous! Couldn't take any downtime, so we had about half a Sunday to complete the migration. Then another 6 months making it all good.

Even off the shelf solutions end up being highly customised, tweaked and patched to get to a stage where they satify the purpose.

If it were me, I'd stick with what I had and optimise the crap out of it. As the systems evolve, there's always room to improve things.

Every week ? seems excessive …. can’t you work Saturdays instead when i’m out riding ?

That would be Sunday morning my time. No chance.

Just about to begin the migration of the old system at work to a new one, I'm managing this project. It's all gone really well so far! Thoughts and prayers plz x

stwexpertsin****geverything

You stole that off me! 😆

Just about to begin the migration of the old system at work to a new one, I’m managing this project. It’s all gone really well so far! Thoughts and prayers plz x

We've allegedly got a new CRM system (to replace a 10+ year old one) allegedly going live this summer. I'm closely but not directly involved - there's a sort of cult-ish bubble inside the project where they all think it's going wonderfully while outside everyone's looking at what's been delivered so far vs the planned 'go live' date and wondering how they hell they can keep giving project updates with a straight face. (No it's not your project @ygh)

You’ve only ever been involved in successful migrations haven’t you?

Our SW team at work migrated one of our product's platforms to a new system, it's supposed to manage 10,000s of nodes. They released Rev 1 to great fanfare. On a network with 1 node, a single button click on the GUI took 3 minutes to respond. Yep 180 seconds of the GUI doing nothing then eventually whatever form etc you wanted appeared. They didn't even have a spinning wheel icon to keep to entertained.

And they wouldn't admit that was a problem as no one has put 'must be responsive' in the spec (probably as its so blooming obvious you'd feel like an idiot adding it).

Eventually it was canned. No idea how many man years of work it took to create such an abomination.

The system still runs on a 20 year old code base which we keep maintaining as at least it vaguely works...

desperatebicycle
Free Member
stwexpertsin****geverything

You stole that off me! 😆

Cite.

There a few experts on here that can refute that ridiculous claim.

Do not, under any circumstances, go down a “custom, bespoke application” route.

Yeah, if most places I've ever worked are to go by, everyone knows that what you should really do is take an off-the-shelf package, then butcher it to buggery, then complain that it doesn't work very well.

I just assumed someone else in Todmorden had just got the internet and the router fell over. Mark must have stopped by the town hall on his way into work this morning to reset it.

Mebe go full "year zero": Toast the forum history, pretend that pressfit bottom brackets never happened, ban mentioning 26" wheels and start completely from scratch?

Mebe go full “year zero”: Toast the forum history, pretend that pressfit bottom brackets never happened, ban mentioning 26″ wheels and start completely from scratch?

That will kill their search engine rankings over night.

take an off-the-shelf package, then butcher it to buggery, then complain that it doesn’t work very well.

We had that, tooks years to get it right. You knew where you were with it. Then we upgraded to bespoke! 🤦‍♂️ At great cost

there’s a sort of cult-ish bubble inside the project where they all think it’s going wonderfully while outside everyone’s looking at what’s been delivered so far vs the planned ‘go live’ date and wondering how they hell they can keep giving project updates with a straight face.

I think you must have got the devs that we let go.

That description is uncanny.

And they wouldn’t admit that was a problem as no one has put ‘must be responsive’ in the spec

"Meets expectations" 😀

@stumpy01 voucher code for £0.02 off your next subscription payment to compensate for your lost time on the site: OutageOutrage

Just about to begin the migration of the old system at work to a new one, I’m managing this project. It’s all gone really well so far!

Sounds like you are in the first hour of it and the ice breakers are just finishing...best of luck!

Meh, for me the site is working better than it ever has. And it's been years now since I was redirected to a pron site, so I'm happy.

As for Avators and sig???? Is it 1998 again already???

@tommathy - well played 😁👍