BTW currency is one aspect where we agree. Having an argument where the other party can veto it(whether you believe them or not) was a mistake.
Not surprised at all 😉
Ditto, you are probably surprised by the fact that I generally support devolved power, just not under yS T&Cs!!!
Free hugs available in Dundee if it helps...
Team hurt more is hurting more.
You are not coming across very well, you shoulda been an mp, as they also fail to answer straight questions.
And as for yer sidekick 'jimbala' there is a village in England missing an idiot.
The most mature post so far?
Thanks PM, but the best thing about Dundee is that you have almost got to Carnoustie!
Just turning back to the heading of this thread "SNP You lost, get over it".
The thing is the SNP knows they lost, spent a day or two feeling miserable, and then were astounded when the people in the independence movement simply picked themselves up and kept going. Not only did they do that, they joined the SNP in their tens of thousands.
I don't think you can regard the cause as beaten when the SNP membership went from about 25,000 to almost 100,000 in just a few weeks following their "defeat".
The SNP is lagging behind the public sentiment of the independence movement, and I suspect their usual top down modus operandi may backfire on them unless they change it.
Ironically our biggest ally right now is UKIP. Every announcement of how they are going to cut Scotland's budget throws more petrol on the fire.
Ironically our biggest ally right now is UKIP. Every announcement of how they are going to cut Scotland's budget throws more petrol on the fire.
But the similarities are far more important than the differences.
Returning to the introspection bit, every announcement from AS about walking away from the debt (sic) threw plenty of petrol on the fire. 😉
maybe you're old enough to remember the tail end of the empire
Ah yes, someone who voted No! They [b]must[/b] be a 65+ yo Scottish tory, that can be the [b]only[/b] reason that someone would reject AS's wonderful independence idea. If only there weren't two million tories in Scotland and everyone had drunk the yS koolaid.
it's understandable that you'd feel threatened that so many people don't feel the same way
Hey don't worry unknown, it's understandable that you'd feel threatened that so many people don't feel the same way. That's the 2 million + other people BTW.
Thanks PM, but the best thing about Dundee is that you have almost got to Carnoustie
That's the first straight answer you have given.
If you could please get on with answering the rest that'd be great.
Odd that you are interested in answers, given your earlier comment...
steffybhoy - Member
You obviously haven't done your homework.
POSTED 5 DAYS AGO # REPORT-POST
Let you know when I have finished. Lot to learn so I can keep up with you.....
teamhurtmore - Member
Returning to the introspection bit, every announcement from AS about walking away from the debt (sic) threw plenty of petrol on the fire.
And if we declare a UDI, we won't be taking it either. 🙂
What I am against is BS
..which is pretty funny considering how much of it you spout
I know, tough isn't it!!!
And if we declare a UDI
Just keep ranting on about UDI, it merely exposes the low contempt you hold democracy in. Great work! Keep it up!
we won't be taking it either.
And won't that do wonders for Scotland's ability to borrow on the world markets! Can you spell pariah state?
bearGrease - Member
"And if we declare a UDI"
Just keep ranting on about UDI, it merely exposes the low contempt you hold democracy in. Great work! Keep it up!...
Thanks. Like an ever increasing number of Scots, I will keep it up. It is the contempt for democracy displayed by the Westminster govt that drives us on.
Democracy is when the majority of a sovereign people decide. This does not require the permission of a government and can override the government.
This applies in countries where the sovereignty derives from the people (eg Scotland), as opposed to where the sovereignty is derived from the parliament (England). The Treaty of Union did not alter the sovereignty in the respective countries.
A UDI can only happen when there is a majority so it will be democratic.
Check out what the sovereign people of Iceland did with their govt after the GFC.
[img] 
?oh=9f1fd29257be1e70ff0a51fb4d1ef20a&oe=5503602D&__gda__=1426970353_3ea336ccd52f3423bfb21dbd3a5554cd[/img]
Democracy is when the majority of a sovereign people decide.
Duuuuuh. Did you miss the results on Sept. 19th?
[img] 
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Did you miss us abiding by the result?
Democracy is not absolute. We are free to continue campaigning.
Independence is driven by events, so Scotland certainly could take that step, as who can predict the future?unknown - Member
I believe what happens now will lead to the next referendum and will ultimately win it for the yes campaign. It's going to take longer than we'd hoped but independence for Scotland will happen in our lifetime.
Recent events that have led to countries being independent (usually passed on crushingly large majorities btw, 90%+) -
OMFG the Berlin wall just fell down.
Praise God! The civil war that's been raging for 30 years has ended.
The Russians just invaded and annexed us.
If anything of that ilk occurs in the UK then I guess we've got bigger problems than Scotland being independent. But the point is that you will never reach independence from where you are now by an incremental, negotiated movement. It's not something you inch towards.
I imagine the prospect of two salaries for two jobs at the same time is hard to resist. I think that needs to be looked at, you shouldn't be able to hold two representative offices at the same time. Should apply to everyone btw
if the electorate wants to elect the same person to two positions, who are you and I to interfere?
We are free to continue campaigning.
Indeed, and looking at the maps and results there are lots of folk who got it wrong. 😉
Just do everyone a favour and do a bit of preparation next time. It would save a lot of time, expense and embarrassment (oh and trees).
as who can predict the future?
Keep up at the back. Half the posters on this thread have fully functioning crystal balls 😀
aye 200k got it wrong! 😉teamhurtmore - Member
We are free to continue campaigning.
Indeed, and looking at the maps and results there are lots of folk who got it wrong.
Just do everyone a favour and do a bit of preparation next time. It would save a lot of time, expense and embarrassment (oh and trees).
Prep is well under way.
My actual thinking is that I do agree that there were too many questions left open. That can't happen next time.
I also think that the make up of the parliament needs to be 65+% next time. And that it needs demonstrably govern differently from Westminster so that people have a better idea what they were voting for.
It was far too easy for people to paint a picture that and IS would just be a smaller clone of what exists.
It was far too easy for people to paint a picture that and IS would just be a smaller clone of what exists.
Surely not, AS told everyone how he was able to re-write basic truisms. This was going to be completely new (dream) world.
First item on the biased (sic) BBC news - aaarggghhhh
If proper democracy doesn't work, try exploiting the position of a minority power broker. The ultimate irony!!!
Forget the means, it's the ends that count!!!!
@kona many jobs have restrictions to say you can't hold two posts. What AS is doing just shows that being an MP / MSP isn't a full time job as far as he's concerned.
It will be interesting to see if he can win, with the Lib Dems having a 6000 vote majority it's by no means certain
many jobs might have that restriction but not many jobs are like MPs where thousands of people vote to see if you get it! if everyone else agrees with you that it's a crap idea, he won't get the job; if they don't, he will. I think it's a crap idea but that is my opinion and others will disagree. FWIW MPing has never been considered a full time job - look at all the MPs who are practising professionals or have outside business interests.
Why the 'silence' over how well the sunken island of Iceland is doing?
austerity, capital controls and massive debt?
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/34ab12fc-0d9b-11e4-815f-00144feabdc0.html
@BearGrease - very interesting chart. Just shows how concentrated the Yes vote is in and around Glasgow. Amusing to think about all the discussion of "Scotland's Oil", its the Glaswegians claiming it for themselves - I wonder what those in the North would have to say about that, we know what Shetland and Orkney think. All the borders pro the Union and of course Edinburgh where all the business especially financial services are.
jambalaya - MemberIt will be interesting to see if he can win, with the Lib Dems having a 6000 vote majority it's by no means certain
Definitely an interesting development.
I can imagine the Westminster parties are going to throw all their resources into making sure he doesn't win.
But we don't want THM to lose his purpose in life, so let's hope Salmond wins the seat. 🙂
I think the EVEL contingency will be surprised to find that he's actually on their side. Who knows, his presence may fire up stronger popular interest in regional devolution in the rest of the UK.
Having looked at epicyclo's picture above, I'm amazed that Yes lost when they had representative groups like "Cabbies for Yes", "Hong Kong for Yes", and "Africans for an Independent Scotland" as part of the campaign.
As he is fond of saying "the truth is out there" So I should point out
THM seems to have left out the fact he wants to preserve the status quo as he might fancy living here again,
From a selfish perspective, I may well be returning to Scotland to live and hence I would like to see the country's best interest served.
From page 5 of the big thread....or his panicked response to somebody posting how much of the UK's natural resources are here towards the end of the last thread "and they say this doesn't concern all of us!" wasn't it?. Wannabie Colonial Master,scratch the surface of his BS just like Jambalaya and his pathetic crowing over the creation of a wealth fund with fracking money and you see what they really view Scotland as.
Aye up, sorry to be late to the discussion you are all getting it wrong again. It's Freedom for Yorkshire that we need.
From the Telegrapgh (quite an interesting article if I may say so) [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/11278658/Watch-out-Westminster-Alex-Salmond-wants-back-in.html ]link: AS wants back in[/url]
[i]Mr Salmond says he is standing for Gordon because he wants to continue serving the people of North East Scotland. But most of his opponents, and even a few of his colleagues, reckon his decision is more to do with serving his ego. He also claims that he wants to wring more powers for Holyrood out of Westminster. But he has still not fully accounted for the fact that it was he, almost alone, who lost the referendum thanks to his nonsensical economic policy.
....
And what about Mr Salmond’s own side? Will Nicola Sturgeon, who has escaped from Wee Eck’s shadow to become SNP leader and Scotland’s new First Minister, view with equanimity the prospect of him getting all the headlines at Westminster? Somehow, I doubt it.[/i]
@duckman - I have never characterized the whole of Scotland as devious and dishonest, that's just AS and his SNP cronies. The English wealth fund for fracking was one in the eye for the SNP as is granting control of corporation tax to Northern Ireland, a power that will not be granted to Scotland. When the SNP set themselves up to be disruptive and to crow about the demolition of the "Westminster parties" any reaction is guaranteed to be similarly robust.
Thing is, SNP have done just what they did last time and shot their bolt too early
Mary Doll has announced that the cost of coalition with the Labour Party would be Trident out of Faslane
There's no way that Ed or the rest of the Labour Party can agree to that, as capitulation to such a demand would be politically toxic as the blatant blackmail it would be.
Of course it was also interesting to hear Salmon slagging off the Smith commission conclusions, given that the SNP played a full part in the formation of, and signed off on, the final agreed version...
Why is getting rid of Trident so toxic? A vote winner up here,thats for sure. That is the price that Labour will have to pay...Of course they could be principled and say...actually scrub that.
Picking Trident is an interesting one as that's quite likely to split Labour as they are by no means universal in their support fot it.
ninfan - Member
...There's no way that Ed or the rest of the Labour Party can agree to that, as capitulation to such a demand would be politically toxic as the blatant blackmail it would be...
Politically toxic, eh? Is that because it would then have to move to a port in England?
Be fun to see how much enthusiasm the Unionist hawks could muster for Trident if it had to be parked near their seaside homes.*
Atomic NIMBYism?
Which region of England has the most disposable population? We may find out.
*I'd sooner see it scrapped though.
No, the politically toxic aspects are
I) cost
Ii) unilateral disarmament (see Labour party history for that one)
Iii) voters and party members opinion on capitulation to blackmail by the SNP as a minor coalition partner
I do wish the scots would get over the canard of thinking that having nuclear weapons located in England was some sort of big political sensitivity down here, they seem to forget that Aldermaston and Burghfield are in the middle of The south of England, and most of the rest of it was dotted with USAF strike bases and GLCM sites.
ninfan - Member
...I do wish the scots would get over the canard of thinking that not wanting nuclear weapons relocated to England was some sort of big political Sensitivity down here, they seem to forget that in Aldermaston and Burghfield are in the middle of The south of England
Oh, good. So there will be no opposition to moving the nuclear subs down there. Think of the jobs, the blast radius, the fallout patterns, the mutant children....
[url= http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ ]Och, check it out for yourself
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yes, look at the huge opposition ove the years to the two nuclear submarine servicing sites at Pompey and Davenport
And the crowds of people outside Aldermaston demanding they remove the warheads, the place is [b]literally[/b] ringed with protesters
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OK. You want them, you have them.
Labour is for Trident, its a national commitment to NATO, US etc. Faslane is the best place for the subs to allow them to slip out into the North Atlantic with lowest chance of detection. For the SNP to make it a condition is non-nonsensical. AS only concern is more powers for Scotland, he won't get hung up on any details like Trident. He will make he argument that once they are independent they can do what they want. Interesting the Yes support is so far from the base really isn't it.
Epic,, but you lot voted to keep them.
Democracy eh, what a bugger 😆
