[Closed] Snowboarderists, What binding angles do you use?

I've always put the rear binding on a -ve setting ever since someone told me to do this.

Stand naturally in a comfortable exactly as if you were going to be say standing in a queue for a while but keep your head up and don't look at your feet. Once you are sure that your feet are in a comfortable position look down at the angle your feet are at. This is rougly the position that your feet should be in when standing on your board. It's more comfortable and the more comfortable you are the better your technique will be and the longer you will be able to board for. Don't get sucked in to what the "pros" set up is. Unless you are a pro yourself it's not relevant. Rotating your high back is a good thing too so that the top of them is effectively prarallel with the edge of the board.

-ve on the rear is a bit pointless unless your riding switch or in the park. It is easier to crouch though, which can be pretty handy for off piste tree runs. I tend to ride duck in places like Whistler, where I know i'll be spending half my time in the trees.

If you're carving up pistes/off piste, then both angles being positive (or at least get the rear close to it) is more comfortable.

Just play around and see what you like. It's a very personal thing

Goofy front foot around 15 degrees back foot between -5-10 degrees. As above have a play.

Yeah I have my back foot pointing backwards a little these days. I suppose it it makes switch easier, and I need all the help I can get.

+12 and -12.

Just do what feels comfortable to you - have a play around. The front foot should be fairly simple but have a play with your rear foot.

peterfile - Member
-ve on the rear is a bit pointless unless your riding switch or in the park.

If you're carving up pistes/off piste, then both angles being positive (or at least get the rear close to it) is more comfortable.

for you! I have a much better carve with my bindings set with back in neg position although I do like a wide stance. riding with both bindings facing the same way feels bloody awful to me it did when I learnt in 1993 and it still does today also its not even what is taught these days either.

think about heel carve, basic position is similar to sitting on the loo, toes out is natural and you can get lower, lower in carve is better. Especially through the carve.

Less than 30 total angle - ie +18 and -12 but not +21 and -12.

These day +18 and -9, but it varies depending on how I feel.

Oh and please note I'm rubbish.

I like a duck-foot stance so that in theory I'll be as stable riding switch as regular. It also helps you get nice and low - try getting your arse as close to the ground without both feet pointing out 😀

Cheers, Rich

If carving is your thing, then you want a positive angle at both ends.
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+15 or +18 on the front and -9 or -12 on the back depending on what feels 'better' from season to season. with higher angles on both ends I feel you can control more of the toe edge better, but I think +15 and -9 is my favourite. Re rotating highbacks I HATE this and it kills my legs so I never do it. Try it to see if it works for you but it's not for everyone.

Sorry but what is -ve? I havent got the bindings to hand and thought it was just numbers?

double post

I am an intermediate all mountain rider not much park stuff and wanted to improve my boarding.

Can you ride switch? One of the biggest steps up in my riding (16 years, including a couple of seasons) occurred when I learned to ride switch. I've not had any other thing which has improved/opened up so much in those 16 years.

Set up a reasonable duck stance and spend a couple of days making yourself ride switch. Those couple of days will pay for themselves over and over. 🙂

Haven't ridden for a few years, but always rode duck foot at +12-15 front and the same on the back. I started out goofy but spend as much time switch as not so +same/-same is good for me.

As above, if you really want to carve then your back foot should be positive. Waaaay back I'd go for +15 front and +9ish back, means you can get your weight forward nicely and transition much more smoothly. On a proper carving board angles would be much more aggressive than that.

passtherizla - not disputing what you're saying, however if you practised as much carving with +/+ as you probably have +/- then I think you'd be far better.

+15 / -12 here.

I like it because I'm pretty inflexible so anything that helps me bend my knees and get lower is good. Plus as others have said it makes riding switch much easier which can be useful.

When I started off (90s) everybody ran both positive. Then there was a while where everyone seemed to have the back foot almost square (say +3). Now duck stance seems almost ubiquitous.

Sorry but what is -ve? I havent got the bindings to hand and thought it was just numbers?

Back foot pointing right like this:
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+15, -15 on my goliath, but its set up true twin.

On my more all mountain board I am again +15, -15 however rear binding is in the furthest back position to give a long nose.

just play about but generally i find my setup quite comfy as your feet generally don't stay straight!

Cheers Guys! I know its personal and a can of worms but the more info i can get before playing around the better!

Can you ride switch? One of the biggest steps up in my riding (16 years, including a couple of seasons) occurred when I learned to ride switch. I've not had any other thing which has improved/opened up so much in those 16 years.

Not well! I intend to try to solve this next week which is one of the reasons for a better setup

Oooh run a Goliath here too. (+15/-12 on the reference holes so not quite symmetrical).

Great board innit?

Unless you genuinely ride switch a lot, riding duck can damage your knee, the angulation when riding regular and at speed is just too much, personally I ride zero on my regular back leg so the option for switch is there (I've never been that good at switch but there are times you need to). Not sure what my front is about 12 at a guess, I did spend many years zero zero trying to be cool, but in the end you need some directional angulation if you want to cover a bit of ground at any speed so the experts used to tell me.

my knees are fine and I like to ride really fast!

I did spend many years zero zero trying to be cool,

LOL. That sounds MUCH worse for your knees!

I could never get anywhere close to that thanks to my massive clown feet. I'd be dragging my toes in the snow every time I turned. 😆

Sorry IGRF thats not quite true... your toes naturally point away form your body and not straight forward, having both bindings facing the same way can lead to knee damage. I have been riding 19 years done a couple fo seasons several weeks a year away. say you're goofy right foot forward, My back knee on a heel side turn is being pushed in a direction that its not flexible in. not great for knees. (in a + + position)

Surely, it will only hurt your knees if you have them set up incorrectly, i.e. at a setting which is uncomfortable / unnatural which is putting an incorrect twist / force through the knees?

I made the switch to duck years ago and find it better for comfort and control and just put the angles to a comfortable and natural stance. Works for me. I can almost sit on the back of the board for the flats with my Malaveta bindings and according to the gps regularly hit the mid 40s in mph with no issues.

not ridden for a few years now but seem to remember my back foots pretty square, started -ve but didn't feel comfy twisting my body around on heel edge

I could never get anywhere close to that thanks to my massive clown feet

god i miss snowboarding 🙁

+12 -12 but i like to think i'm young still and play in the park, plus pieste riding can be dull so ride switch lots.

Can you ride switch? One of the biggest steps up in my riding

+15 -15

i carve better like this, as it means i'm more inline with the board, and can get weight over the leading end of the toe-edge.

(those guys in the photo's up there are too 'open' - they'd fail their NZSIA exam for that)

and it's better for messing around.

+15 -15 as well

is this just the obvious so you can ride switch well or does it teach you useful stuff for riding regular?

Learning to ride switch forces you to re learn how to ride by forcing you to actually focus and think about what you are doing and making sure you get the basics of stance and balance right rather than just "doing it". It does have a positive effect on your regular riding.

I personally think riding switch improves your overall technique. You have to 'unlearn' a lot of bad habits and get a lot smoother, focusing on weight movement and edge-edge transitions. If you want to jump/rotate then being able to ride switch well also helps - you can take off/land either way quite comfortably.

If you only ride a week a year it might not be worth the effort as you want to make the most of that week. The more you do the more worthwhile it is.

god i miss snowboarding

+24deg & +9deg but I learnt to ride in the 80's and I like to carve.

you using a wide board? Mine feels OK

Yeah I used to ride a Sims Wide edition just so I could fit my feet on. Mind you at that point I was using Switch step-in bindings which sat very close to the board so your toes don't get lifted out the way as much as they do with regular bindings.

These days I'm rocking a Goliath which isn't specifically a wide edition, but big enough with my angles and normal bindings (K2 Autos).

spending 2 days fannying about riding switch would probably feel like a waste TBH

Learning it is actually lots of fun (I'm still learning).

Gives you something to do if you find yourself cruising down an easy run with a group.

Good thing to try at snowdomes too, where they are too short for a straight run down to be satisfying. I often ride the poma switch to save my legs/testicles 😀

gonefishin/tonyd ah right cheers, thought there might be something other than the obvious in it.

Learning it is actually lots of fun

maybe when kids are old enough to ski I'll join their lessons and learn to ride properly

I used to be a decent skier until I started boarding in the mid 90s, then didn't ski for 10+ years despite lots of weeks and 4 seasons boarding. Last winter holiday we went on my missus decided to learn to ski (was struggling with boarding) so I rented some for a couple of days and had great fun trying to remember how to do it. I can't wait to be able to teach the kids.

(those guys in the photo's up there are too 'open' [u]according to the NZSIA teaching criteria[/u] - they'd fail their NZSIA exam for that)

More than one way to skin a cat, though. If you look at photo's of people really hauling on a snowboard, especially over difficult terrain, they tend to have that open body position. I'm thinking Regis Rolland, Johan Olofsson, Tom Burt, Jeremy Jones. And snowboard racers.

Can't be all that bad!

On the learning = fun/work thing, I couldn't agree more. If it was easy staight away, it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun!

And I think that's why learning to ride switch is rewarding, you pretty much have to learn to ride again, but you know how it's done, you recognise the mistakes and flaws and know how to correct them, so you teach yourself!

(those guys in the photo's up there are too 'open' according to the NZSIA teaching criteria - they'd fail their NZSIA exam for that)

One of my instructors had various exercises involving riding switch for sections, or making every few turns a 360 spin so you swap between regular and switch. Good fun, useful, and thankfully the snow was soft. 😆

+15 / -15 here too, centred, not silly wide, on a Lib Tech T.Rice - I mainly ride backcountry stuff and tend to end up riding switch as much as regular. I can't be bothered to change my binding angles around and my setup seems to work well in powder as well as for occasional park-y stuff. That said, I've got healthy knees... so far.

Play around. I found the most important factor was how comfortable it was to move the knee though a complete range of motion and stay in balance i.e. knees open enough, but not too much. Feet wide enough apart but not too much.

I tried a more forward facing position like the hardboot carvers but struggled, and it started to feel like mono-skiing and I don't wear a turquoise one-piece skisuit.

I'm currently at +15-5 with a fairly wide foot stance biased toward the back of the board. It works best in soft snow and is still passable carving on-piste but good enough to really go for it. I need a bigger board really ~162.

If I had a day alone I would learn to ride switch, but I'm always out with mates who are not interested in "homework"

If you have your hips parallel with the board then equal +ive and -ive is "correct" bio-mechanically. Think about how you would stand if you were squatting (weightlifting) - you want your feet pointed so your knees can track over them.

If you have your hips rotated forward then you need to rotate the feet forwards as well and in extreme examples (like in klumpys pictures) where you are basically just blasting down the mountain virtually in a straight line you will want to have the hips and both feet pointing forwards.

I normally end up changing the angles a few times each day depending on my mood, the terrain & the conditions. Generally I find equal duck-footedness is more comfortable and gives more control at lower speeds, plus it makes switch much easier.

+12 -9 with a fairly wide stance.

It's all down to biomechanics though innit? I will tweak my setup though by +/- 3 degrees as the season progresses and muscles adapt (or injury requires it)

Think the general rules (as mentioned above) is that the total angle shouldn't exceed 30 degrees and when you bend you knees (keeping a straight back ie. without 'breaking' at the waist), your kneecaps should 'track' roughly inline over your 'second' toe.

This should help reduce the risk of knee injuries and facilitate edge-to-edge transfer and allow torsional twisting of the board.

The exception is hardboot carving when +ve angles are used for both bindings

maybe when kids are old enough to board I'll join their lessons and learn to ride properly

Read/watch this:

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http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1405315741

It is a really good book and DVD that talks you through the basics of turning, shifting your weight etc.

I'm self-taught and I found it quite useful because it made me think a lot more about what I had already blindly stumbled my way towards. A mate of mine, who has also ridden for years without lessons, had an epiphany and realised why his technique left his legs burning.

Probably no substitute for real lessons, but it has the advantage that you can do it at home before a holiday.

Disappointed that klumpy didn't bite my trolling 😉

This is actually quite interesting stuff. I'd reckon I'm beginner/intermediate and riding a 166cm Forum Symbol with around +18 and I think about -9. Most of my riding is on piste, but I was at the point last year where I was starting to duck into some of the trees.

Other than comfort, is there any performance / control benefit to making my stance more balanced? I'm heading out on hols in three weeks, but going to Braehead for one last play tomorrow night so I might take my bindings tool along with me and have a play!

Disappointed that klumpy didn't bite my trolling

And riding switch is for when you bottled a turn due to very small testicles.

And we don't want to be seen obviously going through exercises with you as that would implicitly associate us with your dreadful sallopettes. 😆

+1 for Neil McNab's 'Go Snowboard' book!

The DVD's is worth the cover price alone as it features the lovely Jenny Jones! 😀

your dreadful sallopettes

They are "finest green" and pants, not pettes! You're lucky I've not had time to source some postbox red ones. Maybe I'll find some while mooching around the shops in Innsbruck.

Other than comfort, is there any performance / control benefit to making my stance more balanced?

Do you mean balanced as in the same angles +/- on each binding or balanced as in having a centred stance?

One of the main reasons for having a higher angle on your leading foot is so that it 'opens' your body up for visibility in the primary direction of travel.

They are "finest green" and pants, not pettes! You're lucky I've not had time to source some postbox red ones. Maybe I'll find some while mooching around the shops in Innsbruck.

red snowboard trousers create negative steez and should never ever be worn, regardless of binding angle. Even Gigi Ruf looks bad in red trousers.

Only the awesomest people can pull off red trousers. Like me.

I'm maybe not as awesome as I one was, so I've pulled back to khaki (whisper it) *salopettes*.

Only the awesomest people can pull off red trousers. Like me.

http://lookatmy****ingredtrousers.blogspot.co.uk/

LOL at red trousered blog!

Do you mean balanced as in the same angles +/- on each binding or balanced as in having a centred stance?

Sorry Digby, should have been clearer. I think I'm pretty centrally planted on the board, but yes I was wondering if there was any handling or performance gains to be had with more evenly balanced angles between each foot. I'm always looking for any little advantage that would make my toe edge turns less terrifying! 😯

I think I've always had a fairly high angle on my front leg because my old board was quite narrow and my boots were huuuuge! I've now got a longer, slightly wider board and dinky little Burton Moto's so am interested in what the costs / benefits of different angles might be if you see what I mean. The explanation that you give for a greater angle on the leading foot makes perfect clear sense to me, but I'd never really thought about it that way before, cheers!

+15 -15 and as wide as possible/confortable (you can find a 'tipping point' where you feel too wide and then bring it back in a notch). On any Board I ride (currently a twin-tip rocker).

The Go Snowboard book/DVD is defo worth getting

Yeah, I'm +15/-15 - tried loads of messing about and it's what I feel comfy with.

I don't think there's a right answer, though - everyone's legs are different...

Or you can take a different view.

If the snow conditions are good groom or pow then I setup duck +15 -9.

If I want to carve fast piste/offpiste and/or want to be able to do quick turns (ie mogul or steep technical runs) or get to extra grip and control when it is icy, then I use a very forward stance +45 +30.

I find neither one is better - just different for different types of riding.

Don't dismiss a forward stance because it old fashioned - the amount of pressure you can apply with this stance is phenomenal in comparison to duck.

I was wondering if there was any handling or performance gains to be had with more evenly balanced angles between each foot

Once you've worked out what your 'biomechanical' angle is, (i.e the 'natural angle \/ that forms when you assume an 'action' or 'ready' cowboy stance) then how you transfer this to the board can involve a bit of trial and error.

As mentioned earlier, having the greater angle on the leading foot is to do with your field of view.

Unfortunately for many progressing riders, if this angle is too agrressive then it can result in the hips & upper body twisting into to fall line which then means they 'break' at the waist and lean over towards the slope on a heel-to-toe side turn.

A more neutral stance, keeping the upper body 'stacked' & alligned with the board and looking over your shoulder in the direction you want to go may help improve your toe-side turns.

Worth considering having a lesson or getting someone to film you and then tweak your stance accordingly.

GrahamS - Member

maybe when kids are old enough to board I'll join their lessons and learn to ride properly

Read/watch this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1405315741

It is a really good book and DVD that talks you through the basics of turning, shifting your weight etc.

I'm self-taught and I found it quite useful because it made me think a lot more about what I had already blindly stumbled my way towards. A mate of mine, who has also ridden for years without lessons, had an epiphany and realised why his technique left his legs burning.

Probably no substitute for real lessons, but it has the advantage that you can do it at home before a holiday.

Or better still, sign up for a week of getting beasted by the man himself... [url= http://www.mcnabsnowboarding.com ]McNab[/url]

I've done 3 or 4 weeks with him and Keith (the guy who appears in the DVD) and step one is to get your stance right. Nice and wide to give you balance and biomechanically correct so you can move the pressure round the board and turn it easily and accurately.
His approach is that you stand naturally with your feet apart. There should be 20-30 degree angle between front and back foot. You then turn your head to look over your front shoulder. That'll bring your feet round very slightly. Those should be your angles - natural from a biomechanical view but slightly biased towards going forward.
Personally, mine are about +18 -9.

I think I'm pretty centrally planted on the board

Most boards should have "reference" stance marked on them, usually with a little symbol between the four holes.

That should be your "centrally planted" starting point for stance width and position. That's what the board was designed for. Then you tweak it from there (maybe move one hole back for off-piste, maybe one wider for a big freestyle stance etc)

I'm always looking for any little advantage that would make my toe edge turns less terrifying!

Don't dismiss a forward stance because it old fashioned - the amount of pressure you can apply with this stance is phenomenal in comparison to duck.

I think alot of this depends on the style and age of your board - most modern boards of the twin-tip, or directional twin-tip design are designed to be ridden with 4 distinct pressure points.

Older style racing or GS boards are very much carve-monsters and may well benefit from a 'forward stance'

I ride goofy, fairly wide and at +21 and -9.

Just serviced a mates board and he rides +15, -6.

Take a board tool up the hill with you and have a play, go with what's comfortable for you and not what everyone else says you should have.

Oh and have fun!!

So many people are looking down slope over their lead shoulder while kicking the tail round.

Yeah I do that and it cocks up the carve at the end of the turn and ruins the pop/flip into the next turn. I think picked-up looking down the fall line at all times from skiing.

Digby, I do agree with what you are saying regarding modern board design but I just think the amount you can angle a board is much higher with a forward stance. i.e. there is no possible way you can euro carve with duck. (front edge maybe - back edge no way!)

End of the day, trying out 100 different stance angles is FREE! FREE! FREE! (unlike trying stem lengths and wide bars) so just carry a short Phillips and go for it.

it cocks up the carve at the end of the turn and ruins the pop/flip into the next turn

I think two of the most common 'habits' than inhibit a riders progression are: 1) leaning into the slope and bending at the waist on a toe-side and 2) looking down the slope on a heel-side, rather than across towards the desired direction of travel resulting in a stalled/skidded turn rather than a carved turn.

As many have said: sort out your stance; look where you want to go (whilst also keeping an eye open for other slope users); use flexion & extension to weight and un-weight the board and drive it round using each of the 'four corners'. This prevents counter-rotation and stops you kicking the tail round that so often results in poor technique and can leave riders struggling when riding off-piste and in powder.

+21 / -18, centred, and as wide as the bindings will go on an 155 Evil Twin - I ride switch as much as I ride regular.

However on my 179 (!) splitboard, I ride +21 / -9, wide, and set back as far as the bindings will go. I don't tend to bother riding switch on that, it's a full on powder speed machine.

It comes down to personal preference to be honest, as long as you are comfortable. Oh, stick a load of forward lean on the highbacks - it may make your thighs ache, but it'll force you to bend your knees more and that will make you ride a lot better!

Yep, when I close my eyes and think about it, I reckon I do all of the above Digby! 🙄

I'm gonna try and look where I want to go, a bit like on the bike I suppose, from now on! Ironic as I'm always telling off my learner ski mates for looking at their tips all the time!

Thanks for the hints dude, I'm away to dig out that book/dvd combo and have another look at it before the holidays!

B. 😀

Thanks for the hints dude

You're very welcome. Good luck with the progression and have a great holiday! 8)

However on my 179 (!) splitboard

Wow ... that must have a helluva turning circle! And that's a big jump up from a 155 Evil Twin.

Do you mind me asking what make / model that is?

I'm a 18/20 at the front end and around -5 at the back.

+18 on the front and -15 on the back for me. I used to run -9 on the back but an instructor suggested I turn the back a bit more negative and take my stance wider to help with carved toeside turns.

Never have a problem with them anymore and can lean the board right over. I find heel edge turns a bit more difficult to hook up but not a massive problem.

My current board is a Never Summer Raptor 163. A directional freeride board that rarely gets ridden switch for long amounts of time. With those angles I find it very easy to ride, stable as hell when going quick (50mph plus).

I use +15 front and -6 back......

For 4 years I struggled on my current board to feel really confident at high speed and fast turns..... Last year I was persuaded to move my bindings apart by an inch or so...... It literally revolutionised the feel and stability .

Until I hit an edge at 42 mph on GPS I was going great ! Broken ribs stopped play ! Lol