[Closed] Smart meters - any reason why not?

Nah, no downsides.

Whenever there's a change of pretty much anything the 'hard of thinking' will always wail about "them" ripping them off.

any reason why not?

Your sanity!?

If you are OK with your current bills, why stress about saving another tenner a month.

Yes and no - as it stands - one meter, one price, etc.
WOn't be long before they start billing depending on when the usage is though.
Already in place in Italy - got hammered on the last bill there due to the times the oven/washing machine/etc was used.
Certain they'll do it here as soon as they can.

I have no problem being billed more at certain times of the day if it gets to that.
British Gas are doing a free electric on a Saturday daytime which would work well for me to put dryer on in winter. We aren't typical energy users anyway so timed charging would be ok for us.

It's a new bigger house we are buying so I'd like to see how we use energy in it as it's very different from our last house.

One of the current issues with domestic smart meters is that there is no common standards for accessing them. The upshot of this is that if you change energy supplier, you may well have a meter that is not compatible with the new supplier. At that point everything either goes back to the stone age of reading meters popping round, or you have another new one installed. Of course this may or may not bother you.

"If you are OK with your current bills, why stress about saving another tenner a month."

A tenner a month would be great! If I can save that I'd be happy.
As I completely renovating the house I'm putting LED lights everywhere, planned heating system to be efficient, making sure everything is insulated ok etc etc.

Someone in the office said he'd read recently in [i]Which?[/i] that you need to be careful to get a generation 2 smart meter - apparantly the gen 2 meters can be migrated to a new provider, where as this isn't possible with the gen 1 meters (which some providers are still installing).

Not sure if this is true, but would be worth checking.

If you are OK with your current bills, why stress about saving another tenner a month.

If it's very little effort as a one off to save a tenner a month, why wouldn't you?. That's would be my Netflix subscription paid for plus 101 penny chews.

If you have OCD tendencies, avoid smart meters like the plague, you will be running to the meter every time something is turned anything on or off. 😆

I'd get Netflix and 401 penny chews

I think the question should be "why bother"?

I can already read my meter and do it accurately. The publicly funded, expensive and patronising adverts on TV seem to view automated remote readings as revolutionary. I wouldn't put it past most energy companies to mess up reading an automated smart meter, or indeed to mess up the billing.

Also they're not very smart. They do automatic remote readings and allow the utility to switch off supply remotely if required (which may save the rest of us some money). But it won't give me high resolution data about my energy use, it won't tell me which circuits are doing what, and it doesn't really do anything for me.

Time of use tariffs might work for some people but I can't see them catching on.

Its not whether timed tariffs catch on or not - the suppliers will bring them in anyway.
Hugely more profitable for them as how many will never bother looking at the clock?
The wife sticking the uniforms on at teatime along with the oven?
How many won't want the dishwasher and washing machine running after 10pm when they are going to bed?

Because the real reason for introducing them is finer granularity of usage information which allows for even more (and more expensive ultimately) complex tariffs. Initially the leads to peak and off-peak charging and then they'll probably tailor rates based on individual usage. Whenever you are most likely to use energy will basically be the most expensive. Yet they'll have some lovely cheap rate periods of no use to you, which keeps the government happy with their push on smart meters.

Adverts currently banging on about estimated bills. Sure, but in the end you always pay for the actual usage once someone reads it, or you can just submit the reading yourself. Smart meter just means they can lay off meter readers.

Balls to it I say. I keep getting letters and emails telling me I need to change the meter and it's "free" but yet it could cost me a day off work and I have to ring a non-free number to arrange it.

And then they claim my current (digital) meter may be "unsafe". Yeah right.

British Gas are doing a free electric on a Saturday daytime which would work well for me to put dryer on in winter.

BG tariffs are expensive so it's still a con.

£350 is the cost on our bills for a smart meter - you might as well have one - but they are in no way the panacea those marketing them say thy are.

As above AFAIK they tie you to one supplier. I have dual fuel and British gas have been trying to get me to have one for ages (they are suspicious of my low usage)

And then they claim my current (digital) meter may be "unsafe". Yeah right.

Oh yes, I get this all the time.

I can't see how most people will save any money.

After an initial period people will revert to their normal usage patterns (if they changed them in the first place).

Who's paying for it all anyway? Someone somewhere must be trying to claim back the cost of the meter and fitting.

WOn't be long before they start billing depending on when the usage is though.
Already in place in Italy - got hammered on the last bill there due to the times the oven/washing machine/etc was used.
Certain they'll do it here as soon as they can.

Economy 7/ economy 10 has been available for decades.
I'm all electric so on economy 7 and I usually run the washing machine overnight as it's 1/3 of the cost per unit.
I wouldn't mind a smart meter if it means I don't have to go outside to the meter and take a snap and then manually enter the reading on my energy providers website.
I can't see the problem if it means the direct debit can be adjusted to track usage closely.

Wasn't there something recently about some of them catching fire?

My cynical analysis is they also want to deskill the meter reading (fully automatic as its on wifi in future ?) and they suspect people systematically under read their own meters.

I had a big row with water company as we could not have a meter and thus got put on a fixed charge which was treble what we used at a similar metered property. Once more people are on smart meters, standard ones will be charged at a higher rate 😐

I'd get Netflix and 401 penny chews

No HD? Cheapskate 🙂

dooosuk - Member 
Who's paying for it all anyway? Someone somewhere must be trying to claim back the cost of the meter and fitting.

We pay for it. Gov is spending £11bn on the programme (according to my Googling) which I guess is subsidy to the companies and the promotion of it all, and the consumer pays part of it in their bills over subsequent years.

Again, back to estimated bills. Gov's argument is it will end these. Sure, but does it end the up front grab of money to plan ahead for your potential usage? Estimated bills are just about not having read the meter, but pre-charging estimates are a different thing. That's taking £100s up front to cover what they think you might use 6 months from now. Sure that may be more accurate with a smart meter based on previous year's usage, but ultimately they're taking money to sit on, invest and make profit from. This is the bit that needs scrapping. Just use the energy, you get charged for the usage, end of.

Eventually smart meters will be used to charge you more a peak hours.

#tin foil hats on time# lots of stuff on t'internet saying its bad for you having what appears to be a powerful mobile phone relaying information all the time. Also, I understand that they can link to other meters to relay the signals. There are also people concerned over how much information they can really gather and transmit, ie they can be hacked into your wifi or some other such guff.#tin foil hats off#

Can't be bothered to take a day off to have it fitted.

At the moment I feel the benefits outweigh the potential inconvenience of a meter change when you swap suppliers. I hate reading meters - it's a waste of 5 minutes every time I have to find the stupid key and grovel among the spiders and cobwebs, then log in to a convoluted bloody system to hand over the reading. Which isn't accepted half the time.

I have British Gas smart meters and there have been no issues (so far...)

They still (STILL!) can't run it like a mobile phone where I can an exact bill every month, but it's getting better. I have no doubt they'll be used to gather personal metrics in the future but right now they save time for me.

ITunes jon:D
Everything for £5.99

Cant be bothered with it. I would ignore what it displays anyhow. Over the years, my leccy bill hasn't risen anything like the gas has. I think its down to things in the house being more efficient ( LED lights, laptop computer instead of desktop, LED TV versus a big old plasma etc etc ) which has countered the rising leccy costs somewhat.

I'd have one but my electricity cupboard isn't up to scratch so couldn't. Back to wading through walking boots, wine rack, etc under the stairs with glasses and a torch. Completely *dumb* that they are not compatible between suppliers - what were they thinking? I have solar panels and use the meter on that to decide when to put dishwasher on, etc. Similar stuff.

In terms of usage monitoring I have a little energy monitor that my supplier (power) provided for free.

Battery-powered transmitter just clips onto the mains line next to the (normal old school dumb) meter and mains-powered receiver sits in the kitchen showing usage (instant/average etc).

Not quite as useful as a smart meter but free and 2 minutes to install.

I don't want one because we're on prepayment meters with Ecotricity for both gas and electricity and currently the only ways to top up with a smart meter with Ecotricity are either online or phoning up. No ta. It just seems like buggering about for buggering about's sake.

We've one in the granny annex we just built for my Mum.

Using electricity costs money, I don't need a 'smart' meter to tell me that...

Pointless waste of money IMO, more billions wasted on a political whim.

A just had one fitted find it interesting at the moment (big older house so costing a lot...)

Somehow I seem to spend 1/3 of the daily electricity before 6am so trying to track down what on earth spikes it massively at midnight. Apparently it doesn't include the standing charge which is why I thought it was...

I'm in a similar boat with upgrading and trying to make the place more energy efficient. One tip on the LEDs, if you have a dimmer, don't bother trying to buy the more expensive dim able LEDs, I tried two brands both failed to work properly and ended up changing the switch. The extra cost probably negates the first two years savings!

There are some disadvantages if you have solar power fitted...

I've got an Owl remote meter thing that tells you how much juice you're using? Used it once to figure out what was costing me money (AV and PC stuff on standby - got remote AC plug/switches) and haven't touched it since.

Will chuck it in the post for the price of postage and couple of beers - £10?

@DT will be intresting to hear your findings, I would think midnight to 6am leccy usage would be close to minimal - fridge only ?

Apparently it doesn't include the standing charge

Ours adds the standing charge at midnight. British Gas, others may do it differently.

DT78 - I got a 3 dimmable bulbs for the lounge which are those fancy filament style ones then a leading edge LED dimmer switch to match. Seems to work really well.

Ours adds the standing charge at midnight. British Gas, others may do it differently.

From my understanding Smart Meters will be compulsory from 2020 with the advantage that you can switch suppliers almost immediately.

Nope, they won't be compulsory. Personal choice:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/smart-meters-how-they-work

I'd love one, but we're on oil so it would only show non-heating usage. Oil use is a pain to measure, modern tanks aren't a nice shape so dip tubes and level tubes don't work easily.

Surely you get ullage tables with a tank?

Doesn't it use wifi?

Doesn't it use wifi?

Yes.

BG smart meters do not use wifi. They have a 3g SIM. I know this for a fact as the Installer had to try 3 different networks to get a good signal.

I tried bulbs from ikea which were supposed to be rated (yes more expensive dimmable ones). Tbh I don't really care for a dimmer anyway, just an expensive exercise. Maybe it is a standing charge then, I'd read it didn't include it or vat. Shortly I'm moving to another provider so likely it will become useless

Scottish Power ones are SIMs as well. Tbh I wouldn't want my meter on my network anyway, just seems like a lot of risk given how quickly exploits are found for these things.

I find it amusing that people need a guage to save power.

Not using a light, switch it off, don't leave stuff on standby /sleep mode, turn it off properly.

Aside from more efficient lighting, your fridge freezer is on 24/7 so adjust its thermostat to run a bit warmer, keep it full to maintain temperature, don't leave the door of the fridge open for longer than nessesary as it takes hours to cool back down again.

Not rocket science.

Not rocket science.

Of course not, but measuring is the easiest way to know if you are making a difference. And make informed decisions.

You may discover that those nice energy-saving bulbs you put in aren't actually as efficient as advertised. Or that your fridge is faulty and is drawing way too much.

Conversely you may discover that the standby draw is so low that it's worth 20p a year to avoid fishing around down the back of the telly multiple times a day.

That's a fair point for a one off audit I suppose, especially with standby modes, as you say some equipment is very efficient in standby, where as some equipment are so bad in standby you may as well leave it fully on, or turn it off properly. Hifi amplifiers are a good example of when standby modes are essentially pointless, but a typical broadband router uses so little power when idle it's not worth turning it off.

PC's can be a mixed bag depending on how modern the components are.

Standby <1W for any appliance since 2010

Doesn't it use wifi?
Yes.

I doubt it would generate any noticeable traffic. I'd be surprised if it is much more than the equivalent of looking at one photo on here per month.

[i]I'd love one, but we're on oil so it would only show non-heating usage. Oil use is a pain to measure, modern tanks aren't a nice shape so dip tubes and level tubes don't work easily. [/I]

We've just a Watchman which counts down F(ull) to 0 that's plugged in (the kitchen).

I just note when it changes (approximately 120 litres per number) and work out our usage from that. Reasonable accurate over a period.

I had one fitted a few months back (I didn't ask for it, they just fitted it). Its been quite interesting watching the display.
I'm trying to sell my house so I replaced the three candle type LED bulbs in my dining room with the original filament ones. I can turn on every LED light in the downstairs of my house and it doesn't show on the meter. If i just turn on the light with the three filament bulbs then it goes up by one bar.

I dare say I'll get bored with it soon!

I doubt it would generate any noticeable traffic. I'd be surprised if it is much more than the equivalent of looking at one photo on here per month.

If that was my point I'd have made it. It's not. It's a security issue.

I doubt it would generate any noticeable traffic. I'd be surprised if it is much more than the equivalent of looking at one photo on here per month.

It's more the fact that it is dependant upon something for which they do not contribute to rather than the data it does/doesn't use.

It's more the fact that it is dependant upon something for which they do not contribute to rather than the data it does/doesn't use.

[Facetious]

Turn off your electricity, how long does the wi-fi stay on for?

I bought a frozen Pizza the other day, not only did it say it had to be kept in the freezer for which Tesco contributed nothing, it then had to be put in the oven at 220C for 8 minutes, wasting all that effort keeping it cold and costing more gas! The cheek of it!

[/Facetious]

I find it amusing that people need a guage to save power.

Despite 2 people saying the smart meter installed in their house has a 3G sim fitted to communicate, Wi-Fi hacking seems to be peoples biggest fear?
Ours are being fitted on the 15th of March and no question of do you have Wi-Fi was asked.
I doubt very much they would use your Wi-Fi as if you changed the router password it would stop working.

Ours doesn't connect to our wifi, and it only seems to communicate with Scottish Power periodically - ie fortnightly.

Despite 2 people saying the smart meter installed in their house has a 3G sim fitted to communicate, Wi-Fi hacking seems to be peoples biggest fear?

I'd be much more concerned about [anyone who's able] potentially being able to screw with your electricity supply from anywhere in the world.

True, but then they could just do that by hacking an actual power station.

[Trevor McDonald]

Al-Queda struck new fear into the West today by disrupting N-Power customers during the final minutes of Coronation Street. It it unknown exactly how many are affected but it is estimated that 15 million people may not know who Deirdre Barlow is having another affair with.

[/Trevor McDonald]

I have to say I am very suspicious and cynical about this. When did a company ever do something at its cost for consumer advantage.

I always pay my energy bills in arrears so I am not giving the energy companies a free loan

What I really object to is my energy bills increasing due to these smart meters being installed when I have no intention of having one as they most definitely are not compulsory. Why should I be subsidising others?

Why should I be subsidising others?

Flip that the other way around, if smart meters demonstrably reduce energy use, why should the rest of the country subsidise your environmental impact?

Or looking to the future, when this sort of thing is linked into a smarter grid, whether you are energy efficient as an individual or not the energy producers ability to modulate the demand side* rather than just the supply would reduce pollution too.

Or playing devils advocate; I think climate change is a myth, I should be able to pay 10p/kWh for Welsh coal power, why should I subsidise Scottish Hydro investment?

*simplistically, they could turn everyone's fridge off during coronation street add breaks to reduce spikes in demand.

Despite 2 people saying the smart meter installed in their house has a 3G sim fitted to communicate, Wi-Fi hacking seems to be peoples biggest fear?

I was one of those people. My point was WHY it would be a bad idea to have them connect via wifi as opposed to a sim.

Cinnamon - you could use that argument for anything, why should I subsidise rural broadband, gynacologists, motability, loss leaders in the supermarket etc.

Nope, not everyone is stupid and that is what it's pandering to. Am quite capable of being sensible with my energy usage and choose to be.

Nope, not everyone is stupid and that is what it's pandering to. Am quite capable of being sensible with my energy usage and choose to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

No one seems to have done a study on energy efficiency, but ......

[I]I have to say I am very suspicious and cynical about this. When did a company ever do something at its cost for consumer advantage.[/I]

It's nothing to do with the companies and all to do with the Govt.

Also how can it be proved that these gizmos reduce energy use? I use LEDs, hell I even started a thread about them recently, lights are only switched on in the room I am using, audio visual equipment isn't left in standby mode, TRVs on each radiator, new CH programmer and thermostat, there's no walking around in a bikini in my house instead preferring to layer up.

Nothing to do with superiority you cheeky monkey!

I don't want one as the lack of standard between suppliers is ridiculous & none of the manufacturers have done much to prevent hacking, so in theory a terrorist group/rogue state could potentially take control of swathes of the countries supplies in an attack.

If you want to save money,
Fit LED lamps
Fit an A or A+ rated boiler & don't wander around your house in a tee shirt & shorts with the thermostat set at 22C+
Buy A or A+ rated fridge, freezer, washing machine, TV etc & turn off what you aren't using.

I don't need a meter to tell me this 🙄

snaps +1

The government are clearly colluding and some folk are receiving brown envelopes.

The government are clearly colluding

To reduce energy usage?

What's in it for the energy companies?

1) Most people seem to be in credit with their provider, so they're losing out there
2) It's going to cut most peoples consumption, so they sell less.
3) People will be able to switch quicker, so there'll be better competition.

What's in it for the energy companies?

£13 billion+ income from selling people something they don't need or want.

[url= http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/13a-plug-in-energy-saving-monitor-n67fu ]If you want to know the cost of running an appliance, it can be done for under a tenner[/url]

[url= http://www.robertdyas.co.uk/owl-micro-wless-enrgy-monitor?istCompanyId=bf3344d9-83f5-4abd-b69a-da131f7567d1&istItemId=wpaiqwiqp&istBid=tztx&gclid=CLWUjpvvptICFRIo0wod1YcEsA ]Or this if you want a wireless display[/url]

1) Most people seem to be in credit with their provider, so they're losing out there

[b]Not in credit in Winter.[/b]

2) It's going to cut most peoples consumption, so they sell less.

[b] It will drag folk away from their phones for, say, 5 minutes then the novelty will wear off. But I'd still like an explanation for 'cutting most people's consumption'. Do you believe that despite price increases in energy most people aren't trying to reduce their consumption? Also there will always be some who don't actually GAS cos they're rich/stupid/whatever so how will you convince them?[/b]

3) People will be able to switch quicker, so there'll be better competition.

[b]It's easy to switch, if I can hack it anyone can. Dream on for better competition though.[/b]

c_g
Miss Cynical
😉

Also how can it be proved that these gizmos reduce energy use?

Well they automatically send your meter reads instead of a bod in a van having to drive round individual houses to take a reading and post bits of paper through doors where no one is home.

I'd imagine that saves a reasonable bit of energy across the nation. 😉

OK so 7hrs later not one person has said they use your Wi-Fi so I guess we can put that one to bed then?

My issue with it is the idiots on the end of the phone trying to deal with organising to install them.

"We are going to install a smart meter"

"Excellent - when "

"In 6 months time '

"Ok phone back in 5 months and I'll tell you if I'll be in or not"

" Just take a holiday"

" Sorry what. I don't get holidays - I don't even work in the country"

"What about your partner "

" She doesn't get selectable holidays either. I know a month in advance where I'll be and that's the best I can do"

They have not phoned back.

Smart meters do not connect to your home wifi.
The following is from [url=www.smartenergygb.org]Smart Energy GB[/url]

[i]Inside your home, smart meters use their own secure, wireless network using radio waves, just like mobile phones or TVs do. ([b]It won’t use your wifi and you don’t need wifi in your home for it to work[/b]).

Your smart meters will link to a similar wireless network outside your home. This network is run by the new Data and Communications Company, which is overseen by the energy regulator Ofgem.

There are strict new regulations and codes of practice to keep smart meter data private and secure.[/i]

I really can't see the objection to knowing how and when you are using energy from either the consumer of providers point of view.

Well they automatically send your meter reads instead of a bod in a van having to drive round individual houses to take a reading and post bits of paper through doors where no one is home.

I'd imagine that saves a reasonable bit of energy across the nation.

If the government wanted to reduce power station energy consumption why are the government reducing FIT rates for PV?

1) Most people seem to be in credit with their provider, so they're losing out there
[b]It's nothing to do with this, it's to enable the power companies to introduce variable pricing depending upon the time of day = more profit[/b]
2) It's going to cut most peoples consumption, so they sell less.
[b]How does a meter stop your kids switching on the TV and then walking out of the room?[/b]
3) People will be able to switch quicker, so there'll be better competition.
[b]Rubbish, it may may it easier for the power companies by reducing behind the scenes processing, but this just = more profit for the power companies[/b]