MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I am thinking of learning to sky dive sometime next year, but it isn't something I don't see doing very often, just probably something I do when on holiday in beautiful locations if it is available to me. For me I don't see the actual rush of skydiving actually being enough to make it worthwhile, but think I would enjoy it in "epic" landscapes ie, Fiji, Mauritius, Interlaken etc
But I am unsure if the environment you are in, is really a part of the experience or is it just the actual act of skydiving itself that gives you a rush?
Just remember, if at first you don’t succeed, it isnt for you.
probably something I do when on holiday in beautiful locations if it is available to me.
In that case, stick to reputable DZs, don't choose on location.
Empuriabrava is a great mix of landscape and good DZ.
In that case, stick to reputable DZs, don’t choose on location.
+10
I leant in Spain where H&S is non existent. Almost died twice getting my free fall license. Both times I was dropped in completely inappropriate conditions for a beginner and shouldn't have been let out the plane. Was a very steep learning curve! Canopy speed 10mph, wind speed 20 mph gives two options, land with wind at 30mph or land doing 10 mph backwards. I left some very long skid makes in the Olive grove where I landed and was dragged 100m along the ground. The there was the dropped into cloud over a town on jump #2; I *Just* escaped the town and nearly became a permanent smear in the church graveyard....
What you gain in weather by going to Empuria or Algarve, you can lose in the quality of instruction (maybe*)There is a vast difference in how AFF is taught between countries. I learned in the UK, getting my AFF done between Beccles and Sibson and then transferred my license to Sweden.
Instead of having a day of ground school and then jumping (UK), Sweden gives you a lot more class-based learning before you get let loose, something I kind of agree with. It makes you more prepared for things in the air.
Why do I do it? Because it gives me an amazing feeling of clarity and of focus. I can only really remember feeling the same way when i went for a walk in Lash in 2012 and that was escorted. Things were really sharp and clear then and it's the same kind of feeling when you jump. I only have about 80 jumps, so still very new and well in the middle of the dangerous time, but I just enjoy the hell out of it. I just want the season to start again so I can get my B license. Then the C license. Then I can do speed skydiving, if I haven't joined an FS team by then.
* I know for a fact that UK clubs go out to Algarve for AFF camps. One week of jumping to get AFF and maybe A license. Algarve can be unforgiving, but they have mostly ok weather. I did get caught by cloud there this year though and scared myself a little getting back.
I learnt in the Army, the feeling for me is why you like a rollercoaster or going downhill on a bike at 50mph, it is a great feeling of exhilaration but under control
Once the chute is open, i like that my heart rate steadied and that feeling then with the longer jumps of 5-6 minutes taking it all in, i went on to do a lot of paragliding as i loved that freedom, reading the landscape, studying the weather and the places it took me including the States, Peru (paragliding over the Nasca Lines was amazing) Bolivia, Morocco and South Africa
My advice would be to train over here and get a good grounding, it is not really a sport to "be chucked in at the deep end (or the plane door)", once you know what you're doing then travel with it but get your International Skiydiving Licence in this country where tuition is good and whilst you build confidence.
There are good 7-10 day intensive courses, and i have heard good things about these guys:
https://www.ukparachuting.co.uk/aff-courses/
Does 1x static line parachute jump from 2000ft count ...?
Thought not !
All the same ..very exhilarating..done at Sunderland Airport 37 years ago ..a small car manufacturer is now on that site ( Nissan ).
My jump record card read " weak exit otherwise ok "
That should tell you everything you need to know!
Humblebrag: Until I moved a few months back Dylis the oldest skydiver in the world was a neighbour, she's pretty awesome.
The whole thing looks dull as **** to me. Other than doing it in different places and the adrenaline buzz what's the attraction? There's little site specific challenge is there? Jump out plane in Britain, pull handle. Jump out plane in Spain, pull handle. Not like mountain biking is it?
Is there a technical element?
Do you want to skydive or get Instagram likes? Sounds like the later...
The whole thing looks dull as **** to me
It is! I learnt in the cadets, initially thinking it was going to be amazing and seeing all kinds of James Bond style stunts in my mind. The reality a lot of the time is interminable waits around drafty airfields waiting for the cloud to clear or the wind to drop or the plane to come back down for your turn. There's really only so many ways you can fall for 90 seconds, then pull a cord. I could also never quite get over the thought that I'd bounce off a cloud, I was always quite surprised when I fell through it.
Is there a technical element?
Moving round the sky, hooking up with others, flying position.
I used to work with a champion skydiver, she had thousands of jumps under her belt including a whole load of competition stuff - team flying, aerial formation.
Being fair to it, many of the people who were well into it had learnt their trade in the forces and already come into it well versed in it all whereas for someone like me who managed a few jumps a year in the cadets and then trying to build up enough through AFF, it was a lot more difficult and therefore progress was slower and the whole thing was more boring.
I didn't do much, but like scud, I really enjoyed flying the parachute.
I've done a few tandems and would.like to get my AFF one day, but for me I realise it would just be another expensive hobby to split my time between.
My long time mate has set his own skydive company up, based in UK atm but in the process of moving out to the Algarve to base his business. Hs's currently in Russia running a tunnel freefly coaching trip.
Have a look for Altitude Brothers skydiving
https://www.altitudebrothers.com
I’ll happily admit that there can be a lot of hanging around and it can be frustrating if you want to jump. You are with a bunch of people that all want to jump too, so it’s not like you are alone and, here at least, it’s like hanging out with a very close knit family.
Actually, that last is quite important to say. It is very much like being part of a family. You share quite a lot of emotion with the group you jump with and, despite a drop zone being effectively adult day care, you make very good friends.
It’s also expensive and fundamentally dangerous. Despite the training, despite the experience you gain, despite the safety systems, people can and do get injured and die. I have seen that happen first hand and lost a friend earlier this season. That’s the most important thing to remember and consider when you take the decision to do AFF. If you are happy with the risks involved. Do it. It’s a rush. It’s always a rush. My girlfriend has nearly 4000 jumps and still gets the rush.
Only done three so don't know if I count. All static line 3,500-4,500ft.
Did the first one just to see if I could, wasn't sure how I would react when faced with actually jumping out but in the end no problem, the training was so thorough that I really was just going through the motions and it wasn't until I was actually falling that my brain realised what was going on and had that 'oh ****' moment, even on a static line it feels like quite a long time before the parachute starts to open, the freefallers will probably laugh at that.
Second one I did was in the snow, it was great. Fantastic views accross Oxfordshire, lovely. Only problem was navigating. Before the jump they had showed us an aerial photo of the area, the wind's coming this way, the plane will fly this route, you will get out here and go this way, turn here and land here. Same as previous as the wind was the same direction. Only trouble was in the snow everything looks the same, no chance of spotting the triangular field with the hanger in the corner from 4'000ft up and a couple of miles away!
But yes, it is dangerous. One badly broken ankle in my group of eight, on a day I wasn't there. One of the instructors there broke both legs quite badly, his own fault, he'd borrowed his girlfriend's parachute which was just about big enough for him, but her reserve wasn't... And, after I stoppped doing it, there were two guys killed at that airfield when someone doing a jump collided with a glider, god knows how that happened.
Why did I stop? As per some of the above, there is a lot of sitting around doing nothing, especially as a beginner when the restrictions are tighter, you turn up, sit there all day waiting for the wind to drop, and then go home. Turn up again, sit there all day waiting for the cloud to lift, then go home. Not fun. Once you get better and can jump in higher wind speeds and suchlike this should become less of a problem, but I'd done three, ticked it off my must try that list and that will do me. Pleased I did it, enjoyed it, but not really keen to put in the time and effort to get good at it, would much rather ride my bike.
I did it once,back in the nineties,you climbed out the side of the plane & jumped off.
Four of us went,I enjoyed it & wanted another go but I had to go to Lancaster infirmary with my mate...
Of the 4 of us I was the only one who landed uninjured,we had one broken leg,one bad whiplash,a broken back & a dead sheep!
I decided to stick to the motorbikes & mountain bikes instead,less dangerous...
"I could also never quite get over the thought that I’d bounce off a cloud, I was always quite surprised when I fell through it."
"there were two guys killed at that airfield when someone doing a jump collided with a glider, god knows how that happened."
These two statements not unrelated.
It's nearly impossible to see and avoid a freefalling human. Totally impossible if that human is the other side of a cloud. Accepted that if all your skydiving was inside a military danger area then it may be OK to jump through cloud. Anywhere else just reckless.
If the second event is the 2002 collision at Hinton in the Hedges, the AAIB describe it thus:
"The collision occurred between two individuals operating from the same airfield with each believing that he was within agreed operating limits. Unfortunately, these perceived limits were different for each organisation."
Yes, it was Hinton, I jumped there during my first year of university, so winter of 2000/spring 2001. I don't know much about it, just saw it on the news and recognised the name of the DZ. No idea if it was cloud-related or what but was surprised that jumpers and gliders could be so close to each other. Been a passenger in small aircraft, microlight and two seater helicopter, and always on the lookout for other things. Regardless of how difficult it is to spot a freefalling human the glider and aircraft pilots should have been aware of each other and no jumping should have taken place whilst in proximity.
As an aside, it amazes me how much stuff there is up there, seems to be loads more than you see from the ground, looks clear when taking off, and then you get up and there's hot air balloons, gliders, mircolights etc all over the place. Aborted one microlite flight because of it, we were five or six miles from RAF Cranwell, hazy sunshine so visibility not great and we could hear a lot of chatter on the radio, no idea what was up there but it was almost certainly bigger and faster than us so we wimped out.
Thanks, lots of good information so far.
One thing is how much communication is there between instructor and pupil during the drops? I live in Germany, I imagine the H&S here would be at least equal to that of the UK so that would be fine, but what I wouldn't fancy doing is translating any instructions in my head from my instructor while I an actually also having to put those instructions into practice, I think for the theory part on the ground I would be fine.
I think that my preference would be to find a reputable company in Spain/the med to do my AFF training, who normally run their courses in English (just for the likelihood of better weather), second preference to do it in the UK.
I lived in Brackley for a bit, and used to cycle or run past Hinton most weekends; my route went along the bottom of the runway. The times I was either 1. Overtaken by an ambulance rushing to the airfeild or 2. saw the blue flashing lights on the airfield makes the activity at places like BPW look tame.
I imagine it’s a bit like scuba diving, unless you do it regularly and develop muscle memory to sort things out when they go wrong it can be incredibly dangerous.
Andrew, if you want to know what happened the AAIB report into the Hinton collision is here. Nothing to do with cloud in this case.
If you want a UK license, then there are a few options for people overseas. I think Cyprus has a single BPA affiliated DZ. otherwise go for the license that your country has. Think8n about it, how far are you fromSaarlouis? They have a decent drop zone and some good people working there.
If it is something you "don’t see doing very often, just probably something I do when on holiday" then personally I'd say you are better off just doing a few tandem jumps, letting someone else do the bulk of the work while you enjoy the rush and view.
(I've done 2 static line jumps in the UK and a tandem dive in New Zealand. Enjoyed all of them but I can't say it was something I wanted to do regularly. The tandem was interesting though, because being a six foot fat lad I was attached to a petite 4-foot-nothing female instructor, meaning we were pretty unbalanced and did a few somersaults on exit before we got ourselves stabilised)
“I could also never quite get over the thought that I’d bounce off a cloud, I was always quite surprised when I fell through it.”
Yep, I remember holding my breath the first few times I fell through them as if it was into water. Not that I should have been dropped into cloud on my AFF course, but H&S was completely nonexistent at the drop zone in Spain (Lillo). It was all quite exciting until you come out the cloud on the underside at 5000' over the middle of a large town on your 5th jump and go 'oh F***, what do I do now....'.
Sounds like a lot less fun than hang gliding, which I did a handful of times while a student. Still lots of sitting about waiting for weather etc (especially as a beginner) but actual flying when you get off the ground.
Those with bad AFF experiences in Spain, did the instructors not stay close to you when jumping to give you guidance?
Is there an STW equivalent for skydiving, where I might get a larger sample size for training school recommendations?
Colleague did a charity jump. Off work for 9 months with crushed vertebrae and damaged ankle. She was very lucky not to be paralysed and in a chair the rest of her life. Still having health issues 2 years later. She was the lucky one though, another colleague who had done multiple jumps did not survive his last jump and splatted at the side of an airfield.
Got to ask, is looking at a view worth this? How would you and your family feel about life in a wheelchair or forking out for a funeral for the bits gathered up?
More importantly, is putting your loved ones through huge anxiety each time you jump worth 'the thrill' ?
Its really not nice having a colleague killed for no good reason, not nice at all.
MSP, for the AFF you will jump with instructors; two of them for the first three jumps, then one for the remainder. They will give you non-verbal commands if necessary during the jumps and will stay with you until you throw out your canopy. After that (when you are under canopy), you are on your own, although they will likely give you radio commands from the ground.
The BPA has some good info on what you can do. it's not 100% relevant to you in Germany, but it is close enough to other European orgs: https://www.bpa.org.uk/your-first-jump
Those with bad AFF experiences in Spain, did the instructors not stay close to you when jumping to give you guidance?
They do for the first few and then when you get to a certain point you get to go solo and IIRC need 10 solo jumps to complete the AFF course.
Footflaps, sport on. Jumps/levels 1-7 are with instructors, L8 is solo from lower altitude. The 10 consolidation jumps (and passing the Canopy Handling (CH1) exam) are for A license. After that you can jump with other people and do the further skills stuff like Freefly, Formation, CH2, Jumpmaster, etc, etc. before B, C and D licenses.
It's all about learning. Never stop learning.
This article reminded me of my AFF course, same level of H&S 😉
Got to ask, is looking at a view worth this?
People get killed hillwalking when they just go to look at a view.
People get killed mountain biking in nice views.
Hell loads of people get killed crossing the street when they don't even care about a view.
It's tragic when any of that happens. Everyone has to weigh up the risk and reward for themselves I think.
did it in the forces and spent a year working at the Joint Services Parachute Centre, it is a great sport but can be extremely clicky in the UK, regarding the jumping and do nothing till pull then need to research as it covers a wide diversity of disciplines, think single speed to full on downhill! would definitely recommend it to anyone, but one point if you think MTB can be expensive then you are in for a shock! i am still paying loans off from years ago (but had a fantastic time on the money)!
as it covers a wide diversity of disciplines
Yep, when I was learning one of the guys there, Brian Vacher, was only interested in the canopy flight part, so would just jump out half way up and pull his chute immediately as the free fall bit didn't interested him.
He was a bit good with a canopy...
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/8/7244441_aa5d4fb815.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/8/7244441_aa5d4fb815.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/D8wa ]Brian Vacher swooping at Skydive Lillo[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
If it is just views you are interested in then maybe consider paramotoring instead?
A lifelong friend of mine is into it. Has the advantage that you are not reliant on a plane or an airfield.
He posts some lovely views:
And you can even do that fancy foot dragging stuff...